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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Phoenix _ Phoenix - End of Mission
Posted by: Deimos Nov 10 2008, 08:05 PM
NASA Teleconference Today about Status of Phoenix Mars Lander
WASHINGTON -- NASA will hold a media teleconference at 4 p.m. EST today, Monday, Nov. 10, to discuss the status of the Phoenix Mars Lander. Phoenix has been operating on the Red Planet for more than five months.
Participants will be:
-- Barry Goldstein, Phoenix project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
-- Peter Smith, Phoenix principal investigator at the University of Arizona in Tucson
-- Doug McCuistion, director of the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington
Audio of the teleconference will be streamed live at http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio.
Posted by: Stu Nov 10 2008, 09:05 PM
Conference has started...
Posted by: DEChengst Nov 10 2008, 09:08 PM
Goodbye friend :'(
Posted by: Stu Nov 10 2008, 09:08 PM
"End of mission" declared... no-one has any expectations of Phoenix being heard from again... 
Posted by: djellison Nov 10 2008, 09:09 PM
Barry :
Sol 151 - had a bit of a problem. Executing the last high power science day. Dust storm on that day (out of the blue). Were expecting Tau of .3. Planned for .5 - it went up to 0.8.
For a few sols it kept communicating.
Became harder for the vehicle to wake up as the dust has hung around.
Nov 5th - was the last time they heard from Phoenix.
At this time pretty convinced the vehicle is no longer available to us.
Declaring an end of mission operations at this time.
Going to keep listening with MODY and MRO - but no one has any expectations of that happening.
Posted by: mike Nov 10 2008, 09:12 PM
Phoenix was a fun mission. And if we hear from it again, it will be that much more exciting. I look forward to seeing the (as of yet!) complete results.
Posted by: ElkGroveDan Nov 10 2008, 09:14 PM
It was the most exciting EDL ever that's for certain.
Posted by: ugordan Nov 10 2008, 09:16 PM
Indeed.
Seems like it was yesterday...
Posted by: Juramike Nov 10 2008, 09:17 PM
(I still have the half-eaten bag of peanuts).
Posted by: Stu Nov 10 2008, 09:20 PM
Yeah, that was a heck of a night, wasn't it? Thank you everyone on the Phoenix team for a wonderful few months!
Looking forward to the science results. Lots of delights and surprises lurking in that data, I'm sure. 
Posted by: djellison Nov 10 2008, 09:21 PM
Sad topic to start - but it marks the end of a great mission.
Posted by: Stu Nov 10 2008, 09:25 PM
Sad, but inevitable, and everyone involved in the mission should feel very, very proud of what they and their lander achieved during Phoenix's all-too-brief stay on Mars. Thanks to them we saw martian ice glinting in the sunlight, clouds scudding across the sky, dust devils whorling in the distance... so many wonderful memories for us all to look back on in years to come.
Posted by: PDP8E Nov 10 2008, 09:29 PM
from my phone via twitter
From Phoenix mission ops: Phoenix is no longer communicating with Earth. We'll continue to listen, but it's likely its mission has ended.
(it is now ~4:27pm Eastern US time, Nov 10, 2008)
Posted by: Chmee Nov 10 2008, 09:30 PM
Anyone have the final / last image that Pheonix took?
Posted by: punkboi Nov 10 2008, 09:31 PM
Farewell, Phoenix. We hardly knew ye.
Posted by: Enceladus75 Nov 10 2008, 09:32 PM
RIP Phoenix - you were a great mission.
The best is yet to come - the data analysis is really only beginning.
Posted by: Ken90000 Nov 10 2008, 09:38 PM
It's better to hear this news from friends than from some strange on Television this evening.
Great Mission!
Posted by: MahFL Nov 10 2008, 09:39 PM
Oh how sad. The fall weather is harsh up there.
Posted by: 1101001 Nov 10 2008, 09:40 PM
I might as well link this here:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1936 (2008 November 10)
Mission engineers last received a signal from the lander on Nov. 2. Phoenix, in addition to shorter daylight, has encountered a dustier sky, more clouds and colder temperatures as the northern Mars summer approaches autumn. The mission exceeded its planned operational life of three months to conduct and return science data.
The project team will be listening carefully during the next few weeks to hear if Phoenix revives and phones home. However, engineers now believe that is unlikely because of the worsening weather conditions on Mars. [...]
Posted by: Stu Nov 10 2008, 09:41 PM
Maybe http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/death/img/c.jpg...
Posted by: Chmee Nov 10 2008, 09:42 PM
Pheonix, don't go towards the light!! Come back to us!
Posted by: marsophile Nov 10 2008, 09:57 PM
At a previous news conference, it was stated that a dozen or so AFM images had been taken. Any chance we could see some of those?
Posted by: nprev Nov 10 2008, 09:59 PM
(Sigh)...well, all good things must come to an end, and Phoenix was a very good thing indeed.
My deepest congratulations to the entire team; superbly done, ladies and gentlemen!
Posted by: djellison Nov 10 2008, 10:00 PM
I don't know. Why don't you ask them.
All the data will be on the PDS before too long anyway.
Posted by: elakdawalla Nov 10 2008, 10:04 PM
Do you know offhand what the PDS delivery date is?
(I know I can look this up -- busy day)
Posted by: djellison Nov 10 2008, 10:10 PM
From the Archive PLan PDF I've seen - http://pds-geosciences.wustl.edu/missions/phoenix/Phoenix_Archive_Plan.pdf
two deliveries to the PDS, the first one no later than six months after Sol 30 data are received on
Earth, and the second one no later than six months after Sol 90 data are received on Earth. In the
event of an extended mission, subsequent data releases will occur for every 90 sols; for example,
Sol 180 plus six months, then Sol 270 plus six months, with the final delivery occurring no later
than six months after the last data have been received on Earth.
and
~ December 23, 2008 First data release 6 months after sol 30
~ February 8, 2009 Delivery of data from Sols 31 to 90 to PDS two weeks before second release
~ February 22, 2009 Second data release 6 months after sol 90
4 different flavours of AFM data in the plan, including calibrated topographs.
Posted by: Bjorn Jonsson Nov 10 2008, 10:13 PM
This is sad but still I'm happy - this was a great and successful mission that lasted well beyond the nominal 90 day mission. Following the EDL live and then seeing the first images just a few seconds after they were received on Earth was especially memorable.
However: Back in January 2004, who would have thought that at the end of a successful Phoenix mission both of the MERs would still be going strong?
Posted by: nprev Nov 10 2008, 10:15 PM
I was thinking that too, Bjorn.
Engineering, thy name is JPL!!!
Posted by: jamescanvin Nov 10 2008, 10:23 PM
Great mission - it's been a fantastic ride over the last few months. Thanks to all involved. Goodbye Phoenix.
This unremarkable pair are sitting at the bottom of my MMB directory:
http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/i/SS151ESF909627275_20973L5M1.jpg
http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/i/SS151ESF909627275_20973R5M1.jpg
Posted by: Ant103 Nov 10 2008, 10:37 PM
Fantastic mission. She has been a true friend on Mars. A great engine of dreams…
Now, she can meet her sisters : Viking 1 & 2, Mars Pathfinder…
Posted by: TheChemist Nov 10 2008, 10:40 PM
Sad sad sad. But looking forward to science results and HiRiSe images of our baby in early 2010. She 'll be there.
PS. Anybody has any idea about the last Twitter message from Phoenix posted 1h ago in binary code ?
The numbers are (if I have done it correctly) 84 114 105 117 109 112 104 <3
Is it some kind of coded message ? (Well duh ?) 
Posted by: jamescanvin Nov 10 2008, 10:43 PM
And this is a quick go at the last image of the Martian surface taken by Phoenix.
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Posted by: Cugel Nov 10 2008, 10:45 PM
its plain decimal ascii.
Posted by: Fran Ontanaya Nov 10 2008, 10:45 PM
'Triumph' in ASCII.
Posted by: Deimos Nov 10 2008, 10:47 PM
http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/i/SS151ESF909627275_20973L5M1.jpg
http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/i/SS151ESF909627275_20973R5M1.jpg
These are the last two. Not exactly going out in a blaze of glory... But those are a water vapor band/continuum pair, so Phoenix was following the water to the end.
Posted by: SpaceListener Nov 10 2008, 10:52 PM
I have been following all of his story. Later I did not have doubt that its mission was going very well; before to land on Mars, I had high confidence of its good touchdown. Later, the Phoenix's team did not sleep trying to get the most of precious short time and they were able to exceed all goals.
Hence, the mission of Phoenix was a truly of a great achievement. Congratulations to a good job to Phoenix's team.
The most peculiar things that comes up to my memory from Phoenix are:
- I was unbelieving to see a so flat surface.
- His wonderful and unique picture during its landing.
- Mars also rains but the water never reaches on the surface.
- The discovery of a pair ices holes on the Phoenix belly:
- The wind was blowing on the tiny thing.
- The surface is very similar to Earth (alkaline).
- The slow sublimation of ice from the surface.
Posted by: Deimos Nov 10 2008, 11:00 PM
Ssh. Don't jinx anything. We lost Phoenix approximately when expected, and in approximately the expected way. There was just no avoiding the harshness of the environment. With MER, there were those, not optimists but pragmatists, who expected Summer/Fall '05. A few optimists said more. I don't think I heard Fall '08 and beyond
. Even so, only Opportunity is going strong. Spirit needs help--little recent odometry, minimal recent science, and dusty solar panels choking off power. Or to put it another way: one is still hopefully roving, the other is hopefully still roving.
Posted by: 1101001 Nov 10 2008, 11:01 PM
http://pds-geosciences.wustl.edu/missions/phoenix/Phoenix_Archive_Plan.pdf (PDF)
archived with PDS within six months of the end of the mission, and all other Level 0 and Level 1
data shall be archived within 12 months of the end of the mission [Applicable Document 3]. The
actual delivery schedule will exceed these requirements: the Phoenix Project will make at least
two deliveries to the PDS, the first one no later than six months after Sol 30 data are received on
Earth, and the second one no later than six months after Sol 90 data are received on Earth. In the
event of an extended mission, subsequent data releases will occur for every 90 sols; for example,
Sol 180 plus six months, then Sol 270 plus six months, with the final delivery occurring no later
than six months after the last data have been received on Earth. Table 5 shows the dates for
archive data acquisition and release.
November 20, 2008 Sol 180
~ December 9, 2008 Delivery of data from Sols 1 to 30 to PDS two weeks before first release
~ December 23, 2008 First data release 6 months after sol 30
~ February 8, 2009 Delivery of data from Sols 31 to 90 to PDS two weeks before second release
~ February 22, 2009 Second data release 6 months after sol 90
TBD Subsequent data releases for every 90 sols through end of mission, with data
delivered to PDS two weeks in advance of release date.
Posted by: TheChemist Nov 10 2008, 11:03 PM
Thanks Cugel and Fran.
I see 3 is fittingly "End of Text".
Posted by: Oersted Nov 10 2008, 11:08 PM
....
http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/i/SS151ESF909627275_20973R5M1.jpg
I think that is a quite remarkable last image. I distinctly see the soul of Phoenix shooting lightning-fast into the Martian sky.
Posted by: imipak Nov 10 2008, 11:10 PM
Looking forward, the AGU meeting and the PDS data releases are going to be very interesting. We know how hard a problem it was to get a lander down intact in the polar regions, let alone get an extended mission out of it; the whole team richly deserves a storm of applause as the curtain falls, and they certainly get it from me. And possibly some bouquets of flowers flying over the orchestra pit and cries of "encore!"
Posted by: ustrax Nov 10 2008, 11:27 PM
Damn...I've shed a couple of tears for Phoenix,I admit it...seing through the chute photo, the first images...the amazing, thrilling landing day...
Dear Phoenix...you were an amazing embassadress from our planet, sad to imagine you cold, dead on that desert landscape of another planet, far from all those who design and built you and made you fly high above from the craddle...I'll miss you.
We'll soon join there on the Red Planet.
Thank you for your fantastic life!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEbgB6X6S5c
Posted by: belleraphon1 Nov 10 2008, 11:29 PM
Just as parents live on in their children, Phoenix lives on in the data. Who knows that butterflies will come forth from that!?
Goodbye Mayfly..... your data will live on forever. May descendants of your fragile creators find you and touch you some future day.
Craig
Posted by: Stu Nov 10 2008, 11:35 PM
Farewell Phoenix...
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And everyone really should read http://gizmodo.com/5082385/this-is-my-farewell-transmission-from-marsfrom the lander itself... just superbly written, and very touching... this is how Outreach should be done.
Posted by: nprev Nov 10 2008, 11:56 PM
Touching indeed....(sigh)....
It's sad, but let's never forget the excitement of landing day http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=5157 on UMSF; it's a fun read now, we were all a bit giddy!
Posted by: djellison Nov 11 2008, 12:29 AM
Now I know what Buzz meant when he said "Neil - we missed the whole thing"
Doug
Posted by: James Sorenson Nov 11 2008, 12:37 AM
I dont know if anyone noticed, but phoenix passed on the same day that MGS passed exactly 2 years ago 
.
Posted by: nprev Nov 11 2008, 12:57 AM
...an odd anniversary indeed, James! Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah, Doug, forgot you were with Sir Patrick that day live...you still had one of the best seats in the house, though!
Posted by: Reckless Nov 11 2008, 01:19 AM
Hi all
Yes it's a sad day but it's been a great mission, from seven minutes of terror (the music still gives me goosebumps) to the last nine days of silence I've kept up with Phoenix on UMSF and elsewhere every day.
Thanks to all here and of course the whole Phoenix team for everything.
Roy
Posted by: bcory Nov 11 2008, 01:24 AM
"A moment later Jonathan's body wavered in the air, shimmering, and
began to go transparent. "Don't let them spread silly rumors about me, or
make me a god. O.K., Fletch? I'm a seagull. I like to fly, maybe..."
Posted by: elakdawalla Nov 11 2008, 02:32 AM
.That would have been amazing. I checked, though, and MGS was last heard from on November 5, 2006. Barry Goldstein first said that Phoenix was last heard from on November 5, but he also said it was last heard from on Sunday, which was November 2. A question from the press made him clarify and he said yes, he meant Sunday, November 2.
Still, the anniversary is awfully close.
--Emily
Posted by: dvandorn Nov 11 2008, 05:17 AM
It's a sad/happy day. It helps a little that we all knew it was coming, and we all knew it was going to happen right around this time.
Many, many amazing memories for me from Phoenix.
Satisfaction that this type of lander finally made it, nearly a decade after MPL really tearing my heart out.
Intense emotions during EDL. I *really* wanted this one to get through.
Fascination at what small-scale polygonal crust looks like from the surface, and in general fascination over what yet another distinct part of Mars looks like.
Pure delight at the OM and AFM images.
Extreme frustration over the inability of TEGA to get an ice sample. When the mission started, we had Jim Garvin on TV stating in awed, hushed tones, "not only do we think we're we going to find water ice, we're going to reach out and taste it! Can you imagine what we can learn from that???" And yet -- not a single taste of the water. Extreme frustration...
All in all, far more wonder than frustration... but t'would have been even more wonderful had we actually managed to taste the ice.
-the other Doug
Posted by: dmuller Nov 11 2008, 05:25 AM
It has been a rather short but intense mission indeed. Feels like we've heard "Phoenix ... Phoenix has landed. Welcome to the Northern plains of Mars". Made a lot of friends thanks to Phoenix!
Posted by: Vultur Nov 11 2008, 06:30 AM
Extended mission, and it still seems all too short ... goodbye Phoenix...
Posted by: Stu Nov 11 2008, 07:02 AM
From the HiRISE blog:
"The last image we took of the lander shows it sitting pretty, just as it has been since May 25th. We’ll take another picture this week, and probably continue to monitor the site after conjunction to study how frost covers the area."
We haven't seen the last of Phoenix.
Posted by: Oersted Nov 11 2008, 11:36 AM
....
Great post other-Doug, I second those emotions.
Posted by: remcook Nov 11 2008, 11:56 AM
At least it died in the way it was intended to die. It was good while it lasted. Now, let's wait for all the exciting papers that will be coming out.
Posted by: manishm1020 Nov 11 2008, 01:26 PM
Although today has been a somber day for me as well, it has been a wonderful priviledge to work with the EDL and Science Teams for the past 2-3 years. I have learned a great deal from this experience. Thank you all for this opportunity!
- Manish Mehta
Posted by: PhilCo126 Nov 11 2008, 02:47 PM
R.I.P. Phoenix
Posted by: djellison Nov 11 2008, 02:59 PM
When someone writes a post that ends with "But that's probably not a subject for this forum"....they're usually right.
Two posts deleted.
Posted by: mars loon Nov 11 2008, 04:20 PM
Phoenix .. We love you and shall miss you deeply
You have provided a thrilling science ride from beginning to end ...
discovering ice sheets beneath and swirling ice clouds above.
RIP
ken
Posted by: climber Nov 11 2008, 04:36 PM
Great shared souvenirs from landing with you all.
Waiting for papers realease
Waiting to see her from HiRise.
Altogether, it's a
Posted by: 314karl Nov 11 2008, 04:42 PM
Although very, very slim, the possibility is not zero that Phoenix may awaken a bit more than a year from now, depending on the extent of damage due to ice accumulation on the solar panels and the extreme cold on the circuitry.
Posted by: ElkGroveDan Nov 11 2008, 04:44 PM
I will never, ever forget this image. It made me proud to be a part of the same species as the guys who pulled this off. What a triumph of human achievement.
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Posted by: dvandorn Nov 11 2008, 05:07 PM
Thank you, Dan. That summed up *perfectly* a lot of what I've been feeling about this mission. I know I still get goosebumps thinking about that image.
-the other Doug
Posted by: Stu Nov 11 2008, 05:20 PM
Celebrating a job well done, not mourning a lander lost...
http://cumbriansky.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/farewell-phoenix
Posted by: mars loon Nov 11 2008, 07:33 PM
well the UA clock is still running
Posted by: Stu Nov 11 2008, 07:46 PM
Good to know, but if you listen carefully I think you can hear not just the fading echoes of the fat lady's song, but the stage lights being turned off, the seats being flipped back up and the doors locked too...
Posted by: imipak Nov 11 2008, 08:41 PM
As well as the memories I still have the chat logs, and the champagne cork
The sense of a community coming together with the mission team, Doug's webcast with Sir Patrick Moore, Emily's live u-streams, Peter Smith and Barry Goldstein's expressions... an absolutely magical night.
Posted by: James Sorenson Nov 11 2008, 08:42 PM
Thanks for clarifying that Emily.
Posted by: Del Palmer Nov 11 2008, 09:25 PM
Quite appropriate, and there's even a nod to TEGA in the lyrics:
"Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew, when I bit off more than I could chew."
Doing science for 149 out of 152 Sols is an impressive record to be sure. Phoenix will be in my thoughts, although being someone who doesn't tolerate cold very well, the encasement in ice is not something I want to dwell on too much.
Posted by: ConyHigh Nov 11 2008, 11:16 PM
Thanks to all of the brilliant minds on this blog who have been so supportive of the entire mission.
This was the one place to go to get intelligent discussion, not a place where people pi$$ed and moaned about the information coming out of the mission.
You were read regularly and frequently by the team.
It was a great ride. I'll never have a better job than the one I had on Phoenix.
Adios, space friends!
Posted by: Stu Nov 11 2008, 11:40 PM
Thanks Cony, I think I can speak for a lot of people here when I say that means a lot to us...
But hey, we're not done with Phoenix yet! We'll all be here picking through and discussing the science results as they're released, and no doubt producing and creating new and beautiful images as we patiently go through the old raws again, looking for stuff we missed the first time.
So don't go away, ok?
And to any of the Phoenix team who have read or are reading this, two words:
THANK YOU!
Posted by: djellison Nov 11 2008, 11:41 PM
The fun starts in a months time when the data hits the PDS
Between now and then, we have the wrap party 
Doug
Posted by: SFJCody Nov 11 2008, 11:59 PM
Sad but inevitable. Oh well. Phoenix had a better innings than MPF, and now she's part of Mars history.
Posted by: tedstryk Nov 12 2008, 12:18 AM
Better? Not so. Sojourner had a 7 day primary mission, and the lander had a 30 day primary mission. Also, Pathfinder was an engineering mission not a science mission, yet it ended up doing good science. Phoenix and Pathfinder were both great successes, but your comparison is not valid.
Posted by: Thu Nov 12 2008, 01:06 AM
Goodbye Phoenix! However we'll keep an eye on you from orbit.
I'm waiting for the snow-covered image of Phoenix from MRO in the coming months.
And perhaps, as winter comes and goes, will our bird rise again?
Posted by: HughFromAlice Nov 12 2008, 03:53 AM
All good things must come to an end!
My personal take: -
- A great acheivement, not least in the high standards set for openness and inclusivity. All part of the evolution of modern science. Thanks Phoenix team, how amazing it has been to follow this adventure.
- Heimdal Crater shot. Inspiring and gives a great sense of perspective on things.
- Scudding clouds and 'varga' snow. (My personal favourite - just so evocative).
- Ok, so TEGA didn't work perfectly.... but such stimulating discoveries!
Future.... data analysis: -
- I'm dying to find out more about perchlorates/carbonates and the gound-atmosphere interaction.
Regret: -
- Didn't see CO2 snow!! Perhaps a couple of clear days and..............
Posted by: Jeff7 Nov 12 2008, 08:19 AM
What're you saying??
Phoenix! Go towards the light! You need it for your solar panels!
But that sure was a tense EDL. I was also listening to the live NASA feed; it was so awesome hearing the altitude countdown after it separated from the heatshield and was falling on its own, to hear the increments between announcements decreasing, indicating that it was slowing down properly. Such a perfect descent.
Posted by: Harder Nov 12 2008, 09:39 AM
Let me be the first to say that I am eagerly awaiting the scientific results from Phoenix before forming a view about the success of Phoenix.
But in the meantime…. I am a chemical engineer (process technology) from origine and I would like to get it off my chest that if the Phoenix Mission expected to stuff a soil/ice type of sample through a narrow TEGA opening further constrained by a fine mesh, then from a simple engineering perspective that was simply completely wrong, well outside the ballpark compared to the principles applied in (process-) engineering practices. I think we should not "gift-wrap" this message somewhere in a larger evaluation, but try to examine it separately for learning & ongoing improvements.
On the one hand I feel better for having gone on record with this, but overall I have a huge admiration for the team who developed the Phoenix idea and took it all the way to Mars. This is the stuff that space exploration is made off!
If I may use the analogy of the oil drilling engineers (Clint Eastwood and others) coming to the assistance of a space mission in the cinema, then perhaps it is time to expand the space exploration effort and include more “ordinary” engineering inputs from outside the space centres, as missions get their hands dirty on the surface of asteroids, moons and planets...
Posted by: Stu Nov 12 2008, 12:12 PM
Nice video tribute here...
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/index.cfm?id=788
Posted by: MahFL Nov 12 2008, 01:22 PM
Oh thats nice.
Posted by: Stu Nov 12 2008, 02:32 PM
My take on the last colour scene imaged by Phoenix on Sol 151...
http://phoenixpics.wordpress.com/2008/11/12/phoenixs-last-postcard
Posted by: djellison Nov 12 2008, 03:38 PM
I make this the last RAC image 16:05 on Sol 149
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/raw/RAC/RS149EFF909450420_20870MDM1.html
This is the last MI image at 14:26 on Sol 149
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/raw/OM/OS149EFF909443681_207A0MGM1.html
This the last SSI image that wasn't a solar observation on sol 151 at 5:31 am
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/raw/SSI/SS151ESF909588857_20900R6M1.html
And your colour image was about 15 minutes before that - 5:17 am,
Posted by: Thu Nov 12 2008, 03:57 PM
I recall that when Phoenix tried to get some samples and had the dirt sprayed the DVD, somebody hilariously commented "We're on Mars and now Mars's on us"
Oh I laughed out loud at that time 
Also the short movie of the wind indicator moving is simply amazing, many people were surprised since they thought Mars is also an inactive world like the Moon.
Posted by: AndyG Nov 12 2008, 04:09 PM
Th...there...there seems to be something in my eye.
Andy, in need of a stiffer upper lip.
Posted by: stevesliva Nov 12 2008, 04:50 PM
While frustrating, so much was and will be learned about working with that incalcitrant soil-- can only be excited about the advances that will be made from that! What techniques will be developed on earth to simulate the properties of it? What a boon to testing new lander systems.
Posted by: Ant103 Nov 12 2008, 05:41 PM
Hum, notice http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2008-11-12/y, especially the file name. i.e :
1N279734819EFF93RIP1994L0M1.JPG
A hide message of Oppy for Phoenix?
Posted by: djellison Nov 12 2008, 05:57 PM
Site 93, Drive RI, Sequence P1994
Doug
Posted by: Ant103 Nov 12 2008, 06:19 PM
Yes Doug, I know that. But I found the coincidence amusing .
Posted by: robspace54 Nov 12 2008, 06:53 PM
Mars Pathfinder lived from July 4, 1997 to October 7, 1997 (95 days / 93 sols). The Sojourner rover may actually have stayed active a bit longer in survival mode.
Phoenix lasted from May 25, 2008 to November 2, 2008 (161 days / 157 sols). I think that Phoenix was a very respectable mission. Now if we only had an astronaut available to scrape the ice out of the scoop...
Rob
Posted by: imipak Nov 12 2008, 08:58 PM
(`-) *hem, hem*. What a great excuse for a swift perspective and slimline-tonic with-ice-but-no-lemon. Thanks!
Posted by: tedstryk Nov 12 2008, 09:54 PM
Rob
I would add that comparing the life of Phoenix to the other Martian landers isn't really fair. Being solar powered in the polar region, it had more working against it than the failure of critical components (which never happened) and accumulation of dust on its solar panels.
Posted by: ustrax Nov 12 2008, 11:46 PM
Ain't got the words to describe my feelings watching that video...when the HiRISE image appeared it was time for a tremendous shower over the laptop...damn...why do this things have to be so freaking beautifully dramatic?...I'll miss you Phoenix...
Posted by: Stu Nov 12 2008, 11:56 PM
You meant tears, right?
Posted by: FIN Mars Nov 14 2008, 05:32 PM
Well... R.I.P Phoenix - that was short but beautiful story...
But I would like see HiRiSe photos at the Phoenix when there is middle winter in the Mars. Interesting to see that will it be covered by the snow and Ice?
Posted by: djellison Nov 14 2008, 09:31 PM
You mean...when it's...dark?
Good luck with imaging
Posted by: Zvezdichko Nov 14 2008, 09:34 PM
Themis IR imaging 
Posted by: James Sorenson Nov 15 2008, 01:35 AM
Good luck with themis to .
Posted by: tedstryk Nov 15 2008, 02:36 AM
I know MOC took some images using the twilight from sunlight hitting the upper atmosphere during the winter. However, these images were heavily binned. I am not sure if HIRISE could pull this off with a signal to noise ratio good enough to detect Phoenix.
Posted by: James Sorenson Nov 15 2008, 03:03 AM
I asked this question awhile ago, but I dont think It got answered. Im wondering if there has ever been any observation's done with any of the orbiters of the phoenix landing site, or close of past seasonal ice buildup in the winter?. I have yet to find any images of that.
Posted by: Fran Ontanaya Nov 15 2008, 04:18 PM
There's one HiRISE image labeled "Phoenix Landing Site Nighttime Photometry" with phase angle 92.7º:
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_009284_2915
And, all these images are around Phoenix Landing Site:
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/geographikos.php?q1=67&q2=69&q3=233&q4=235
I.e.: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007418_2485
Posted by: Vultur Nov 15 2008, 07:53 PM
I can never keep the Martian seasons straight - is it almost a year till the sun rises again and we can see the ice buildup?
Posted by: 1101001 Nov 15 2008, 09:23 PM
The press-release image, http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/gallery/lg_36971.jpg graphs over a few Earth years, showing the hours of sunlight, and noting Phoenix-mission sol numbers, and a few earth dates.
First sunlight looks to come about mission sol 400, middle of the ice encasement. I don't know when there'd actually be enough light at the right time to image the ice from orbit. It's about a year from now when Phoenix will be in vernal equinox and encasement will be waning.
Posted by: BrianL Nov 16 2008, 05:05 AM
Just wait for a full moon from Deimos or Phobos to brighten things up.
Posted by: nprev Nov 16 2008, 09:16 AM
...nice thought, but I don't think that they're even ever visible from Phoenix's location.
Posted by: AndyG Nov 16 2008, 12:09 PM
They are (just) visible - Deimos up to about 14 degrees above the horizon, Phobos about 1 degree.
Andy
Posted by: Stu Nov 26 2008, 10:52 AM
Beautiful Phoenix model on display at JPL...
http://phoenixpics.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/the-day-i-met-phoenix
Posted by: fredk Dec 2 2008, 03:49 PM
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/12_01_pr.php
Rest in peace.
Posted by: djellison Dec 2 2008, 03:58 PM
This marks the first time that communications have ended with a successful lander since the demise of Pathfinder, 10 years ago. Astonishing.
Posted by: dvandorn Dec 2 2008, 04:26 PM
Even more astonishing is the possibility (small, I know) that Phoenix may not be permanently dead. There is always the Lazarus mode -- we may hear from her again in the Martian spring.
Mind you, I don't expect Phoenix to survive the winter. But there is a chance. If we do hear from her again, it's going to be an amazing day here at UMSF.
-the other Doug
Posted by: Hungry4info Dec 3 2008, 01:07 AM
If I recall correctly, when Phoenix is encased in ice, it's electronics will become extremely brittle and prone to cracking. If the electronics crack, Phoenix is irreparably dead. If Phoenix somehow survives, I'll be very delighted! (though I don't expect it).
Posted by: vikingmars Dec 9 2008, 10:13 PM
Here are 2 hi-res pics of Phoenix hardware on the Martian surface, made of summarizing L/R pics to gain some details : sol 111 for the heatshield and sol 114 for the backshell. Enjoy
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Posted by: bgarlick Dec 10 2008, 01:58 AM
I was thinking about all the different scales at which Phoenix observed Mars (main camer, robotic arm camera, optical microscope, atomic force microscope) so I put together this very crude sketch of a video.
Maybe someone who knows what they are doing could take this idea and make a very cool zoom video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2DDFEfXujM
Posted by: Stu Dec 10 2008, 11:02 PM
Found this excellent article...
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081210/full/456690a.html?s=news_rss
Very good stuff...
Posted by: TheChemist Dec 11 2008, 01:19 AM
Thanks Stu,
A great (and at places personal) account of the mission, with some details on the TEGA door problems I was not aware of.
The accompanying editorial "What next for Mars" is also quite interesting !
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7223/full/456675a.html
Posted by: ustrax Oct 15 2009, 11:53 AM
Mind you, I don't expect Phoenix to survive the winter. But there is a chance. If we do hear from her again, it's going to be an amazing day here at UMSF.
-the other Doug
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/05_20_09_pr.php October is now...
Posted by: djellison Oct 15 2009, 12:18 PM
Check the PHX twitter feed - they're going to wait till the sun is higher - lots of nice power - and try then.
Posted by: ustrax Oct 15 2009, 12:57 PM
Twitter? What's Twitter? 
Thanks Doug...
Posted by: dmuller Oct 15 2009, 01:26 PM
That's why I still have phoenix running on http://www.dmuller.net/realtime/mars.php
Posted by: ustrax Oct 15 2009, 02:59 PM
"We are going to attempt to contact Phoenix after the new year. Just next week we are planning to get together and finalize plans as to when. Not very likely we will hear anything back however!"
Hey! I was able to recover contact with Barry Goldstein today...who knows what might happen with Phoenix in January?
Posted by: centsworth_II Oct 15 2009, 04:40 PM
I'm waiting for a Hi-Rise picture.
Posted by: tedstryk Oct 15 2009, 08:46 PM
If they can contact it, which is of course doubtful, I hope that at the very least they can get it to send back the remaining data that was left stranded when contact was lost.
Posted by: infocat13 Oct 15 2009, 11:04 PM
will this click and make a sound ( twitter? ) when( if) she wakes up?
Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 15 2009, 11:37 PM
If the contact is successful there will be a chorus of "I knew it all along, I had a feeling" from the armchairs gathered round. So I'm going to remove myself from that crowd and state right now that I believe there is a fairly good chance that Phoenix WILL be operational when the sun comes back up again. Call me naive. Call me a foolish optimist, but I believe that sound reasoning has driven me toward that conclusion.
Posted by: nprev Oct 16 2009, 12:38 AM
I'm gonna give her a 50/50 shot @ waking up for one reason: Don't think that we have a good understanding of the insulating properties of CO2/H2O calthrate frost, or even what the precise composition of the frost that covered Phoenix ultimately was. Might've eased her a bit more gently into peak low temp than otherwise, which in turn might have put less stress on electrical connections.
I hereby claim the coveted "Most Desperate Rationalization For Hoping That Phoenix Made It" award!
Posted by: ustrax Oct 16 2009, 10:43 AM
But...were there any doubts?
I'm with you on this Dan, that winter ain't that harsh...
Posted by: Deimos Oct 16 2009, 04:03 PM
With respect to data left stranded: it'd be nice to get, and I think that it is technically possible (ie, the issue is lander survival not loss of data despite a miracle wake up). As far as I recollect, all that was successfully acquired but left on board was Sol 148 MET data and sol 149 lidar data. I suppose there's a chance of access to half of the safe mode engineering data from the lazarus cycles (which half depends on which side of the electronics works first). And there may be some more engineering data on the last TEGA fault--but TEGA has no role in possible hospice mode science, so that might serve only as a cautionary tale for the future.
One small silver lining is that orbiter pass data volumes the last sol exceeded available flash storage--so everything commanded for downlink made it down. Phoenix was unlike MER in that respect, with little flexibility to defer downlink to a later sol.
Posted by: Poolio Oct 16 2009, 05:29 PM
Is there any potential risk associated with trying to contact her too early? In other words, if they tried to contact her now and failed, could that compromise future attempts? The only thing I can think is that attempting contact before she's ready could trigger an inadvertent low-power fault by overburdening what's sure to be a tenuous power situation. This, of course, assuming she's able to respond at all. Is there any other reason that waiting until January is advised?
Posted by: Deimos Oct 16 2009, 08:13 PM
I think the negatives are things that would happen anyway -- there will be many brownouts while trying to wake up, under any scenario with a good outcome. I'd guess a major factor is that the people involved have other mission critical or mission relevant jobs and you have to pull them away. Their time is a money cost, and an opportunity cost to a functioning or planned mission. So, you wait until the odds of getting something for their effort is significant.
Posted by: Poolio Oct 16 2009, 08:30 PM
Thanks, Deimos. Operational costs... I wasn't thinking along those lines. I suppose that pulling together the personnel, facilities, and resources necessary just to attempt contact would have so much overhead as to make anything less than a dedicated effort not worthwhile.
Posted by: vikingmars Oct 20 2009, 08:10 AM
Me too, soo see if the solar panels have snapped under the ice load. Then, no more power available for her and the debate is over 
Posted by: djellison Oct 20 2009, 10:22 AM
There have been two since spring - but I've not had enough chance to really hunt for Phoenix in them.
Posted by: Zvezdichko Oct 20 2009, 02:42 PM
Me too, soo see if the solar panels have snapped under the ice load. Then, no more power available for her and the debate is over MRO with these safe modes isn't helpful for now
Posted by: punkboi May 24 2010, 07:48 PM
Long-Silent Mars Lander is Broken and Dead, Photos Show
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/phoenix-mars-lander-damage-photo-100524.html
MRO images show that the solar panels on Phoenix were damaged by a heavy coating of dust and ice during the Martian winter, as predicted.
Oh, and tomorrow marks the 2-year anniversary since Phoenix successfully landed on the Red Planet
Posted by: ugordan May 24 2010, 08:23 PM
Well, after looking at those images side by side, this does not bode well for chances of spotting Mars Polar Lander. After only one winter basically all objects "merged" into their surroundings. To say nothing of the parachute.
Posted by: nprev May 24 2010, 08:30 PM
Yeah, really. That's a very dramatic difference over one Martian year.
Even if it is eventually found, it seems unlikely now that we would be able to determine anything useful about the landing circumstances (unless it was a high-velocity impact). Phoenix is nearly unrecognizable already; can't even tell that the panels had once been fully deployed. Wonder how long until the landing struts might possibly give out?
Posted by: Sunspot May 24 2010, 08:33 PM
The parachute is totally invisible now, extraordinary.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2010/details/cut/ESP_017716_2485_cut.jpg
As others have said, quite obvious why we haven't found MPL yet.
Posted by: nprev May 24 2010, 08:37 PM
I guess there's still some hope of finding the early Soviet landers & Beagle II since presumably they're subject to dust deposition alone, but this makes me much less optimistic.
Posted by: Paolo May 24 2010, 08:40 PM
I think that the Vikings should be used for comparison here, and their parachutes were still visible, if I remember correctly
Posted by: MahFL May 24 2010, 09:20 PM
Squished by CO2
Posted by: Explorer1 May 24 2010, 09:32 PM
It almost looks as if the parachute was torn away from the backshell by winds! But the atmosphere is too thin for that to occur no matter how fast they blow, correct?
Will anything at all be visible after another winter, I wonder.
Posted by: nprev May 24 2010, 09:50 PM
And a bit of H2O also, I'd say. IIRC, the frosts around V2 were thought to be a 6:1 CO2/H2O clathrate.
Interestingly, something like that would have been lighter than pure CO2 snow per 'absolute' unit of volume, if you know what I mean. (Have no idea how crystallization, etc. would affect the density of the actual deposits.)
Posted by: Hungry4info May 25 2010, 12:34 AM
My hypothesis of significant movement of the lander is not supported by the new images.
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Posted by: Bill Harris May 25 2010, 12:50 AM
This makes strong statment about the weathering, erosional and depositional processes at work in the Martian polar regions. Truly an alien environment.
It will be very instructive to visit this "test plot" in a few decades...
--Bill
Posted by: ElkGroveDan May 25 2010, 02:37 AM
It would be informative from an engineering perspective to get a better understanding of exactly how they separated and where they landed. I wonder if it would be difficult to plan for a super-res sequence of 5 or 10 images taken at the exact same local time on roughly consecutive days. I think it would also be useful to track the shadows/shape on several occasions as the sun climbs higher toward summer. I guess that would exceed the boundaries of a HI-WISH request.
Posted by: Hungry4info May 25 2010, 03:19 AM
Working one final animation. It does seem the features I interpreted as Phoenix were indeed ice patches. The shading that caused me to think the lander was on its side is explained by the shadow of the lander partially covering an ice patch.
This is almost the same .gif as earlier, but with another frame. The post-arrival, and post-spring, and the most recent images are all aligned here.
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Posted by: DFinfrock May 25 2010, 03:29 AM
Is it possible that the extreme cold of the Martian polar winter caused a degradation of the strength of the cords attaching the parachute to the backshell? If those cords were severed, then it wouldn't take so much wind to blow the parachute to another distant location.
Posted by: PDP8E May 25 2010, 04:10 AM
Hi Hungry4info,
That is a nice animation - thanks!
Posted by: antipode May 25 2010, 04:31 AM
That's very helpful Hungry, seems to me that I can see both solar panels still attached to the body of the craft on the latter two frames - they don't seem to have been snapped off.
P
Posted by: eoincampbell May 25 2010, 05:22 AM
Hungry's GIF shadows say both ears have flopped!?
Posted by: S_Walker May 25 2010, 02:36 PM
Perhaps the parachute is only buried under a new layer of dust; there has been significant dust activity in the NPR since late 2009 as seen by amateurs this apparition. The partially covered heat shield also supports this hypothesis. And because the parachute would lay flat as ices accumulated, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume the new layer of dust completely obscures its visibility after the ice sublimates.
Posted by: Phil Stooke May 25 2010, 02:51 PM
"I think that the Vikings should be used for comparison here, and their parachutes were still visible, if I remember correctly "
But only just visible, for Viking 1, and only a guess for Viking 2. They are both pretty much dust-covered. Now that I think of it I'm not sure I ever saw a view of the Viking parachutes in the multispectral strips from HiRISE. That should help.
Phil
Posted by: PDP8E May 25 2010, 05:44 PM
Phil,
Emily had a great photo comparison article of 'chutes and landers'
http://www.planetary.org/explore/topics/mars_reconnaissance_orbiter/hirise_lander_search.html
The Viking 2 parachute seems to have gone missing - it must be in the neighborhood though....
Cheers
Posted by: fredk May 25 2010, 06:43 PM
A few extra details in the http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/?IDNumber=pia13158
Posted by: Stu May 26 2010, 02:27 PM
Final Phoenix poem...
http://astropoetry.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/farewell-phoenix
Posted by: dmuller May 26 2010, 03:04 PM
I have also removed Phoenix from my http://www.dmuller.net/spaceflight/mars.php webpage. At least on my website, Phoenix has now joined other "Martians" (MGS, Vikings & many more) as a historic timeline of a successful mission. After all, Phoenix started my realtime simulations website, and I'm glad it entertained ~4,000 visitors last month alone!
Just about 800 days to go to the Mars Science Lab / Curiosity landing ...
Posted by: ElkGroveDan May 26 2010, 03:38 PM
Santa didn't leave enough http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=5699&st=0.
Posted by: fredk Jun 3 2010, 03:03 PM
Lemmon suggested in Emily's recent http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00002518/ that the parachute may have rotated around the backshell due to winds. Here's my best guess at an identification of the parachute in the new image (white arrows):
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Pretty subtle, I know. It could easily be a coincidence of noise. I also wonder if there may be surface changes in the polygonal features after one Martian year? I don't recall what the timescale for change is thought to be.
Posted by: PDP8E Jun 18 2010, 02:44 AM
Here is an image of Phoenix in Spring 2010 from HiRise with the 2009 after landing image pasted just below.
They are the same scale (more or less)
The Spring image has been super processed for contrast.
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cheers
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