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Posted by: Rakhir Jun 6 2007, 08:29 PM

SELENE has now a nickname : KAGUYA.
http://www.jaxa.jp/topics/2007/06_e.html

Edit :
And Emily searched for the origin of the name
http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000996/

Posted by: Stephen Jun 7 2007, 02:01 AM

I notice that the blog writer Leonard David at livescience.com has come to a similar conclusion. He http://www.livescience.com/blogs/author/leonarddavid that the name "Kaguya" is from an ancient Japanese tale 'Taketori Monogatari' - the tale of the Bamboo-Cutter which involves Princess Kaguya, the Moon Princess."

======
Stephen

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 18 2007, 08:14 PM

http://www.planetary.org/news/2007/0618_Kaguya_Approaches_Launch.html
By Yasunori Matogawa
June 18, 2007

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 25 2007, 03:28 PM

How are they going to insert this into polar orbit? Given the mass of the hardware and to capabilities of the rocket I don't see how they are going to achieve this.

Posted by: mchan Jun 26 2007, 04:20 AM

The Moon's gravity can be used to effect the plane change for entering a polar orbit around the Moon.

Posted by: spdf Jul 28 2007, 10:49 PM

Seems like the new launch date is September 13. So not a big delay for Kaguya. (But already very hostile press )

Posted by: elakdawalla Jul 29 2007, 01:32 AM

Is there a source somewhere on the Internet for that date? (Even if it's in Japanese?)

--Emily

Posted by: spdf Jul 29 2007, 03:35 AM

sorry I forgot:
for the September 13 date:
http://msdb.honeywell-tsi.com/launches.asp

also JAXA released a small report which says they pushed the launch to September since they need around one month of repair.: http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/07/20070725_sac_kaguya.pdf
So this not such a big delay.

Posted by: nop Jul 30 2007, 11:51 AM

http://msdb.honeywell-tsi.com/missioninfo.asp?Mission=SELENE/Kaguya

FYI, Note that it's Not Earlier Than 9/13/2007.
The new launch window for KAGUYA is 9/13/2007-9/21/2007.
(anyway, Sept. 13 is the most probable day, I think.)

Posted by: monitorlizard Jul 31 2007, 08:30 AM

The nice thing about lunar missions is that if you miss a launch window, you only have to wait a month for the next one to come along.

Posted by: elakdawalla Sep 11 2007, 05:09 AM

Lots of photos of Kaguya being prepped for launch:

http://jda.jaxa.jp/jda/p3_e.php?time=N&mode=level&genre=4&category=4064&mission=4067

(Want to blog these but Cassini has to stop sending so many great photos from Iapetus first!)

--Emily

Posted by: GravityWaves Sep 11 2007, 10:10 AM

It will be delayed by a day due to bad weather, new launch date from Tanegashima is Sep. 14 Friday

Posted by: punkboi Sep 13 2007, 07:48 PM

A little more than 5 hours before launch... Godspeed, Kaguya!

Posted by: Zvezdichko Sep 13 2007, 08:35 PM

Rock the Moon and roll to Mars

This message may be flying today

Posted by: nprev Sep 13 2007, 11:36 PM

I don't suppose anyone knows of a live link for the launch...? Don't know if JAXA customarily does this or not.

Posted by: lyford Sep 13 2007, 11:39 PM

http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/live/index_e.html
It's there somewheres....
Sorry

This is it:

http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/live/weblive_e.html

No word if Lipovitan will sponsor coverage.

Posted by: nprev Sep 13 2007, 11:48 PM

...thanks, Ly, and wouldn't you know it: I just found it & was coming back to post that same link! (I gotta be less lazy...)

Coverage should start approx. 45 minutes from now (currently 2349 GMT 13 Sept).

EDIT: Kaguya coverage is live now http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/live/weblive_e.html! Can't understand a syllable except for "hai", but GO KAGUYA!!!!!

First time I've missed the ex in awhile...she could've translated!

EDIT2: Wow...they just showed a shot of what appeared to be a crowd of people in a shopping mall or something watching the coverage on a big TV...seems as if there's a lot of domestic public interest, which is always great to see!

EDIT3: She's up!!! SWEET launch so far...most beautiful launch site ever on a wave-breaking beach, and the high temp (29 deg C) plus undoubtedly high humidity produced this amazing shockwave donut of condensation around the payload fairing that stretched & transformed into a cylinder during max Q...really remarkable, never seen the like before. That H-2 has some serious juice! External cam showed the horizon of the Earth briefly, then cut to commentators...so far, running sweet & true.

Posted by: elakdawalla Sep 14 2007, 01:42 AM

It's up! I blogged what I could from the English translation.. Now I have to go put the baby to bed. If anybody sees anything new on the status can you please please post it here?

--Emily

Posted by: Airbag Sep 14 2007, 02:19 AM

10:20 PM EDT: Payload separation!

Airbag

Posted by: elakdawalla Sep 14 2007, 02:34 AM

...and that's it for the commentary. Nothing new on the launch site home page yet. Cherilynn has promised me updates and pictures from Tokyo, though, so hopefully tonight or tomorrow I'll have more...

--Emily

Posted by: Airbag Sep 14 2007, 02:44 AM

Got to love that low-tech approach to illustrating the launch vehicle's progress on the broadcast - a hand held clipboard with stickers for each phase (e.g. 1st stage separation) that were peeled away one by one!

Airbag

Posted by: elakdawalla Sep 14 2007, 02:54 AM

That was pretty funny. It was a bit Python-esque -- for reasons I can't quite explain, it reminded me of the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLAamUlu-H8.

And when they were outside, with the hardhats, it reminded me of Japanese game shows -- I kept expecting one of the men to suddenly have to go through some "challenge."

There's something about Japan that gets utterly lost upon translation to English. Beyond foreign, it's alien. I know there are some Japanese readers of this forum -- I would love to know from one of them if Americans appear inexplicable and alien to you. And -- are Europeans less so? Or more so?

--Emily

Posted by: lyford Sep 14 2007, 04:05 AM

Anybody know what the little orange bobbing head guy on the bottom left was? Jaxa Mascot? Generic Cute Japanese Icon?

Posted by: Subaru Sep 14 2007, 08:15 AM

Nohohon zoku.
... Ah, my English is poor to explain it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoHoHon-Zoku, sorry.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Sep 14 2007, 09:33 AM

When are these two orbits going to be completed and when the lunar injection burn is going to occur?

Posted by: Toma B Sep 14 2007, 10:05 AM

Is there a replay of that spectacular launch somewhere?

Posted by: Zvezdichko Sep 14 2007, 10:14 AM

Yes, it's available on nasaspaceflight.com

Posted by: Pedro_Sondas Sep 14 2007, 10:22 AM

Hi!

This is the video of the JAXA program for the Selene launch:

http://www.sondasespaciales.com/public/archivos/Lanzamiento%20Selene%20-%20140907%20-%20Jai.asf

(311 MB - ASF)

The flag: 0h5m30sec
Launch with a looooooong countdown: 0h47m (poor quality)
Launch Replay: 1h36m (good quality)

Hai-counter now in: 3827

Posted by: SpaceListener Sep 14 2007, 02:05 PM

Will Kaguya arrive at Moon within 3 days? Haven't found the Kaguya's mission timing.

Posted by: jabe Sep 14 2007, 03:18 PM

from http://spaceflightnow.com/h2a/selene/070914launch.html article

I can't wait for the HD camera pics of earth rise
cheers
jb

Posted by: nop Sep 14 2007, 03:47 PM

In the unofficial webcast presented by http://live.casty.jp/jaxa/, I saw Dr. Terazono (known as the Hayabusa Lipovitan-D blogger) was drinking a bottle of Lipovitan-D

Since Lipovitan-D sensation at UMSF.com in Hayabusa touchdown, this drink unofficially emblematizes Japanese space missions. Here I show a capture from the CASTY unofficial webcast in the launch of SOLAR-B/Hinode last year; you can see Dr. Terazono was drinking it
http://photo.mywiki.jp/hayabusafan/5601/20060926/20060926180209-4caca34e.jpg

Posted by: nop Sep 14 2007, 04:08 PM

FYI, the time format is in UTC. Stay tuned

Lift-off 14 Sept 01:31:01
SSB Ignition 14 Sept 01:31:11
SSB Burnout 14 Sept 01:32:09
SSB Jettison 14 Sept 01:32:31
SRB-A Burnout 14 Sept 01:32:56
SRB-A Jettison 14 Sept 01:33:06
Fearing Jettison 14 Sept 01:35:26
MECO 14 Sept 01:37:41
1st/2nd stages seperation 14 Sept 01:37:49
SEIG 1 14 Sept 01:37:55
SECO 1 14 Sept 01:43:08
SEIG 2 14 Sept 02:11:34
SECO 2 14 Sept 02:15:03
SELENE Seperation 14 Sept 02:16:33
Sun Acquisition 14 Sept 02:21:01
Solar Array Paddle Deploy 14 Sept 03:31:01
3-Axes Control 14 Sept 03:36:01
HGA Deploy 14 Sept 07:09:01
Communication Link Establishment 14 Sept 08:26:01
Injection Error Correction Manueuver 14 Sept 20:11:01
Adjustment Maneuver of Revolution Period 19 Sept 00:46:01
LOI Conditions Adjusting Maneuver 30 Sept 18:56:01
Lunar Polar Orbit Insertion (LOI) 3 Oct 21:01:01
Relay Sat Release 9 Oct 00:46:01
VRAD Sat Release 14 Oct 05:37:01
Observation Phase 21 Oct 10:27:01

Posted by: SpaceListener Sep 14 2007, 04:15 PM

Thanks Nop for good detail.

I see that Kaguya will travel slower to Moon than Apollo. This is for the cheapest travel to Moon without has to much acceleration and breaking. Anyway, the time will fly fast.

Posted by: lyford Sep 14 2007, 05:09 PM

thanks nop and subaru for the inside scoop -
and godspeed, princess!

Posted by: punkboi Sep 14 2007, 05:24 PM

Kaguya will take around 19 days to reach the Moon, 37 days till it settles into its final, 100 km high orbit.

Posted by: punkboi Sep 15 2007, 04:17 AM

HIGH GAIN ANTENNA DEPLOYMENT (In-flight image taken of HGA!)

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/09/20070915_kaguya_e.html

SOLAR PANEL DEPLOYMENT (In-flight image taken of "Paddle"!)

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/09/20070915_kaguya-2_e.html

Posted by: Zvezdichko Sep 15 2007, 06:49 AM

I think we are going to a wrong route if we compare Apollo and Kaguya. Yet, managers plan to take "Earthrise photos" and these pictures will be as spectacular as the "Earthrise photo" taken by Apollo 8 astronauts.

Posted by: ugordan Sep 15 2007, 03:26 PM

I expect the images (and HDTV movies) of such scenes to be even more spectacular than what was possible in the late 1960s. Of course, this all depends on how compressed, well exposed etc. the imagery will be. I'm looking forward to that.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Sep 16 2007, 08:17 AM

Any news on the first manuevre?

Posted by: nop Sep 16 2007, 02:14 PM

According to releases (in Japanese, sorry),
http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/topics/pdf/0916_0030_vc1_j.pdf
http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/topics/pdf/0916_0227_va1_j.pdf
injection error correction maneuver (delta-Vc1) was successfully executed.
Apogee 232,782km
Perigee 956km
Period 4d23h37m

Next maneuver (Delta-Va1) was scheduled on 8:00am Sept 16 (JST).
We've heard no news about it yet, but no news must be a good news. I hope her success

Posted by: punkboi Sep 17 2007, 05:38 AM

Where is Kaguya? "It is in the position of present KAGUYA."

http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/en/communication/position_e.htm

Makes you appreciate JPL's Solar System Simulator a lot more.

Posted by: volcanopele Sep 17 2007, 06:08 AM

nop, do you know if Kaguya will acquire approach imagery as it nears the Moon? Would be interesting to see how image products will looks from this spacecraft with science target, not hardware (though those images are pretty cool, don't get me wrong).

Posted by: nop Sep 17 2007, 02:12 PM

Sorry, volcanopele, I have no information about it. But I'm sure that JAXA will release some moon images on the way, as past spacecrafts (Hiten, Nozomi and Hayabusa) have provided us a lot of images when approaching the moon, the earth and the asteroid.
Stay tuned for further updates.


FYI, the maneuver Delta-Va1 was successfully executed yesterday and now Kaguya is fine.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Sep 17 2007, 08:41 PM

Do we have any information about end of mission scenarios? At least the main spacecraft, and eventually the subsatellites, should impact as the orbits evolve and are not maintained. The subsatellites are probably not controllable to target an impact as SMART-1 was targeted, but the main spacecraft could be controlled.

I only live for points on a map.

Phil

Posted by: ugordan Sep 17 2007, 08:58 PM

That's good, you should put that in your sig.

Posted by: PhilHorzempa Sep 28 2007, 04:42 PM

We are now about 5 days away from LOI for Kaguya. I want to note
that we are in the last few days of an historic period - a time when
there are no active man-made devices operating on, or near, the Moon.
Once Kaguya enters lunar orbit, I believe that we will be starting an era
when there will ALWAYS be a functioning representative of mankind at
the Moon, either manned or unmanned. We are about to enter a new epoch,
one in which mankind has a permanent presence at the Moon. Unless something
drastic occurs, I foresee no gaps in this lunar presence for the next several
centuries, perhaps for the next several millenia.

It all starts in a few days.

Another Phil

Posted by: nprev Sep 28 2007, 05:02 PM

...terrific sentiment. I hope it's true.

Posted by: SpaceListener Sep 28 2007, 08:11 PM

Would like to know about how fast will Kaguya be approaching to the Moon at the LOI point. How long will the engines be firing during the orbit injection?

Posted by: jabe Sep 29 2007, 12:43 AM

What i find amazing is that this can be said for Mars as well, and that started quietly 10 years ago!! I never thought that Surveyor back in '96 would be the start of a continous presence at Mars. If we don't have a rover/satellite/weather station/lander/ etc on Mars running at any one time or another I'd be dissappointed. It is a remarkable time. I teach high school physics and just before the first ISS crew went up I mentioned to my classes that this could be the last time that humans are NOT up in space. I don't think they appreciated what that could mean for them..

I hope that with the Moon being a more "realistic" target, it will get the general public more intrigued and realize that times are changing..how much so we will see... As well This doesn't take into account private space tourism.. Virgin galatic, bigelow etc..

Can't wait for the HD pics to come down of earth rise
Go SELENE!!!
jb

Posted by: Phil Stooke Sep 29 2007, 02:27 PM

http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/index_e.html

Orbit adjustment on the second orbit.

Phil

Posted by: cndwrld Oct 1 2007, 07:41 AM

Pronouncing it

I was at the IAC conference in Hyderabad, India last week. They had good presentations on Kaguya, and I'm really looking forward to it.

I learned that I was pronouncing it wrong. We were told by a JAXA person that it is pronounced KA-gu-ya, not ka-GU-ya.

Apparently, ka-GU-ya means 'furniture store.'

There's a funny joke in there somewhere.

Posted by: SkyeLab Oct 1 2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:
"Apparently, ka-GU-ya means 'furniture store.'

There's a funny joke in there somewhere."


Because it will be a treat for all us arm-chair space scientists?..........

or

Sofa so good for Japanese Lunar probe?

Hmmm, nope your wrong, there is not a funny joke in there somewhere

Brian

Posted by: nop Oct 1 2007, 09:00 AM

Kaguya is carrying a high-definition TV camera as her big furniture and now she have sent a nice picture to us.

KAGUYA (SELENE) Successful Image Taking by the High Definition Television (HDTV)
http://www.jaxa.jp/topics/2007/10_e.html
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071001_kaguya_j.html (in Japanese)

Delta-Vp2 was successful and now Kaguya is on the Moon transfer orbit.
The picture was taken on September 29, 110,000 km away from the Earth - the most distant HDTV image ever
You can see the South America.

The larger image is here. Enjoy!
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071001_kaguya.jpg

Posted by: djellison Oct 1 2007, 09:29 AM

Thanks for the heads up on that - great stuff!

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Oct 1 2007, 10:57 AM

Wow! That looks so promising!

Posted by: ugordan Oct 1 2007, 11:14 AM

Is that a colorized image or an actual color one? Looks like color, but South America is too invariably blue?

Posted by: dvandorn Oct 1 2007, 03:22 PM

It's early spring in South America. There's a lot of moisture in the air over the entire continent. That, combined with the rather extreme slant angle through which we're looking at the ground in this image (putting a lot of air between the viewpoint and the ground) means that yes, it likely is a true-color view.

-the other Doug

Posted by: remcook Oct 1 2007, 04:00 PM

I have no idea about the specs, but maybe the color filters are not ideal for "real" color pictures and are maximised to bring out color differences on the moon? Anyone know?

Posted by: punkboi Oct 1 2007, 06:04 PM

Awesome photo, nop... Can't wait to see HDTV images and actual video footage of the Moon when Kaguya begins official science operations. Obviously.

Posted by: ugordan Oct 1 2007, 06:13 PM

After taking a look at the channels, it is probably true this is a RGB image, but the green and especially the blue channel were overexposed, leading to the unnaturally (?) blue appearance. Here's an attempt at producing a more typical Earth appearance:

Posted by: SpaceListener Oct 1 2007, 06:24 PM

According to JAXA report is that Kaguya is now heading toward the Moon. The LOI would be this Thursday October 4. Important day. Later, the relay satellite will be separated on Oct 9, VRAD by Oct 12 and finally Kaguya will be in Lunar Orbit by October 19.

Posted by: punkboi Oct 1 2007, 07:28 PM

I presume they mean October 4, Japan Time (as in the LOI is still on October 3, 2:01 pm Pacific Daylight Time)?

BTW, they updated the "Position of KAGUYA" page:

http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/en/communication/position_e.htm

Nice little image there. JPL needs to have that kind of animation instead of the Solar System Simulator.

Posted by: nop Oct 2 2007, 09:36 AM

Kaguya has a monitoring camera for cheking the solar array paddle deployment. This camera happened to capture another Earth image.
You can see the Earth through a small clearance between the body and the paddle.
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/ja/communication/com_information_j.htm (Sorry, in Japanese)
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/image/communication/thumnail/img_071002_01_s.jpg

Posted by: nop Oct 2 2007, 11:46 AM

And now the movie has been released.
http://jda.jaxa.jp/jda/v4_e.php?v_id=0496f90d5e5acc06af3087a364c940c8&mode=level&time=N&genre=4&category=4064
The change of the image is extremely slight and slow. Be patient

Posted by: centsworth_II Oct 2 2007, 03:20 PM

Movement can best be seen by watching features disappear into (I mean -- appear out of) the terminator.

Posted by: ugordan Oct 2 2007, 03:29 PM

Earth's rotation dictates features should be appearing, not disappearing at the western terminator.

The QT version doesn't work for me and it's the only one that would allow scrolling back and forth in the movie, without rebuffering. From what I can see in the WMV, most of the "moving" is KAGUYA moving farther from Earth with only a hint of rotation. The pointing is remarkably steady, though. I almost wish there was that "Apollo-like" human hand factor to show it's actual footage, not CGI renderings.

Posted by: centsworth_II Oct 2 2007, 04:07 PM

OOPS!!!

On review I'm happy to point out that this is indeed the case.

Posted by: elakdawalla Oct 2 2007, 04:46 PM

Yeah, QT doesn't work for me either. I wish they had posted these in some downloadable format that I could play with

That pic of the solar paddle that happened to catch Earth in it is pretty neat! nop, could you perhaps help out with translation of that page? Here is what the Google translator produces, which isn't bad; only the last sentence is unintelligible:

It would appear that Google's attempt at transliteration of "Kaguya" is "the [gu] and," which is not as cute as "It is quick the [bu]," its famous transliteration of "Hayabusa."

--Emily

Posted by: nop Oct 3 2007, 02:45 AM

Ok Emily, here is my rough translation. Sorry for my poor English. I think Google translation is not so bad, except for the last sentence.

--

We found that the earth was captured by the monitor camera for checking the solar paddle deployment.
It is a rare picture where the earth is seen between the interval of the paddle.
The image is not clear because it was not not taken by the HDTV, but a rare shot in which the configuration of the satellite and the earth was captured in good timing. Also you can realize the distance between the satellite and the earth.
Now Kaguya has left the earth orbit, and the long-waited day for injection into the lunar orbit is forthcoming.

--

This animation showing a diff during the movie was originally posted by anonymous on a Japanese BBS

Posted by: nprev Oct 3 2007, 04:26 AM

Cool cool cool, nop!!! Been much more impressed with Kaguya so far than with many other missions...sweet bird, great outreach!

Posted by: punkboi Oct 3 2007, 08:24 AM

Kaguya should be in lunar orbit about 13 hours after this posting...

Posted by: djellison Oct 3 2007, 08:51 AM

Whaddayaknow... it IS round.

Posted by: elakdawalla Oct 3 2007, 04:35 PM

Thank you very much for your posts and translations, nop! You are really a great help in spreading news from Japan!

--Emily

Posted by: punkboi Oct 3 2007, 05:29 PM

JAXA is deceiving us, djellison... They refuse to release REAL images taken by Kaguya that shows pristine waterfalls streaming off all sides of Earth's cube-shaped body...

Posted by: Norm Hartnett Oct 4 2007, 02:51 AM

Typical western nonsense! As can clearly be seen in these JAXA photos the Earth has a disk shaped body and the pristine waterfalls are falling away from the spacecraft and not visible since the craft is going to the moon.

Posted by: punkboi Oct 4 2007, 05:34 AM

How could I have been so blind???

So we won't know how the LOI went till 9:00 AM, JST on October 5...which would be 5:00 PM, PDT tomorrow.

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071004_kaguya_e.html

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 4 2007, 01:07 PM

"At 5:55 a.m. on Thursday, a small engine was fired to change the probe's direction and speed and send it into an elliptical orbit around the moon's north and south poles. JAXA officials said the firing of the engine went well."

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20071004p2a00m0na036000c.html

Phil

Posted by: SpaceListener Oct 4 2007, 01:17 PM

At the beginning, JAXA says that Kaguya is mainly as an experimental spacecraft to prove new technologies.. Thus, I presume that this is one of the low-profile public relations' reasons since this kind of mission has high risk of success. Hope, that all new technologies would run fine after many past setback lessons.

Posted by: jabe Oct 4 2007, 06:36 PM

looks like they were successful..see http://spaceflightnow.com/h2a/selene/071004loi.html article

edit:lets hope http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/index_e.html has an official update soon!!

Posted by: Norm Hartnett Oct 4 2007, 08:40 PM

I am not sure that Kaguya can be characterized as an "experimental spacecraft to prove new technologies", except as all spacecraft are experimental. At 2 tons and half a billion dollars, carrying 15 cutting edge planetary exploration instruments, this craft is the equal of any flown to any planet. JAXA has stated that it is "the most sophisticated lunar exploration mission in the post-Apollo Era." and "the largest lunar mission since the Apollo program". This mission could be the crown jewel of Japan's planetary exploration efforts for some time to come.

Posted by: SpaceListener Oct 5 2007, 01:42 AM

What I was saying comes from the extract: http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/en/profile/profile_e.htm
More details about Kaguya:
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.htm
http://www.isas.ac.jp/e/enterp/missions/selene/index.shtml

I agree that the Kaguya is an impressive 3 ton spacecraft along with 15 scientific instruments.

Posted by: jabe Oct 5 2007, 11:19 AM

press release is http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071005_kaguya_e.html.

Posted by: nop Oct 5 2007, 05:46 PM

I am pleased to share the success of LOI with you all

Kaguya is a scientific mission rather than technological one, but of course it includes lots of experimental elements for new technologies.

FYI, Japan once had an experimental lunar probe, Hiten (MUSES-A), launched in 1990 to prove new technologies. The mission included LOI, successive swing-by navigation, aero-breaking by earth atmosphere, daughter satellite deployment, orbit determination using optical navigation, observation of space dusts around Lagrange points, and so on. I think Kaguya's LOI was supported by techniques acquired in Hiten mission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiten
http://www.isas.ac.jp/j/isasnews/backnumber/1994/ISASnews154.pdf (mainly in Japanese, but including English articles and many figures)

We've had two unfortunate experiences in deploying of daughter satellites, Hagoromo from Hiten and MINERVA from Hayabusa But I hope we'll get "the third time lucky" in upcoming deployment of VRAD and relay satellites

Posted by: Norm Hartnett Oct 5 2007, 07:22 PM

Hoorah!

Now you're rolling!

Posted by: Zvezdichko Oct 6 2007, 03:58 PM

I wonder when the first images will be published

Posted by: SpaceListener Oct 7 2007, 01:32 AM

A new update from Kaguya. It has already performed the 3rd LOI.
The First LOI:
Injected orbit
Apogee altitude 11,741 km
Perigee altitude 101 km
Period 16 hours 42 minutes

The second LOI:
Apogee altitude 5,694 km
Perigee altitude 108 km
Period 7 hours 53 minutes

The third LOI: has already conducted. There are still three more.

More details http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/index_e.html

Just a curiosity, how does the spacecraft able to lower the Apogee?
Trying to understand it, it is done by firing the rocket when the spacecraft is reaching the apogee so that the next loop will go slower and thus reducing its next apogee altitude and continues until reaching the desired altitude?

Posted by: jabe Oct 7 2007, 02:10 AM

Simple Really,
The simplest way to raise or lower the perigee or apogee is to do a rocket firing at opposite position you want to change.
ie. to lower apogee you decrease speed at perigee. or to raise apogee you increase speed when at perigee. etc...
so the burn doesn't change the current position..it affects the opposite side of the orbit.
Efficiency issues using fuel resources sometimes has multiple perigee burns to increase the apogee to the required size..which is why I believe the probe did several orbits around the Earth. (I may be wrongabout why multiple burns though )
cheers
jb

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 9 2007, 02:07 AM

The Relay satellite "Rstar" will be released tomorrow.

Phil

Posted by: nop Oct 9 2007, 08:34 AM

Rstar was successfully separated.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071009_kaguya_e.html

I think data will be released after checkout of equipment. See translation of the press conference in LOI.
http://jspace.misshie.jp/index.php?LbyD%2F20071005

Posted by: SkyeLab Oct 9 2007, 09:04 AM

Nice update and a couple of spacecraft moonshots:

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071009_kaguya_e.html#at01

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071009_kaguya_05l.jpg

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071009_kaguya_07l.jpg


Enjoy........

Brian

Posted by: djellison Oct 9 2007, 09:30 AM

All credit to JAXA - you guys know how to make this cool...

cover it in cameras

Doug

Posted by: rlorenz Oct 9 2007, 11:43 AM

A couple of factors play in. One, ideally the delta-V should be impulsive (i.e. instantaneous, with infinite thrust)
But that means infinite structural loads, and a big engine. With a real engine, the thrusting must be conducted
over a finite time, i.e. a finite orbital arc. If the vehicle is spin-stabilized, and the arc is long, then the
engine suffers a cosine loss in useful thrust at the ends of the arc, and so it can be more efficient to split the
burn up into smaller ones (each with lower losses). There can also be issues of orbit determination or safety
(e.g. that should a burn fail part way through, you arent left in some catastrophic orbit - sometimes splitting
it up can avoid danger zones) but that is less likely here.

Posted by: nop Oct 9 2007, 01:17 PM

FYI, I hope this mapping image will help you figure out where Kaguya is
Mapping by Prof. Naru Hirata (Aizu Univ.) and article by Shin-ya Matsuura.
http://smatsu.air-nifty.com/lbyd/2007/10/post_38e8.html (Click the image to enlarge)

Posted by: ugordan Oct 9 2007, 01:29 PM

I see he's using NASA World Wind there

Posted by: kenny Oct 9 2007, 06:58 PM

Many congratulations to JAXA after the disappointments about Nozomi et al. This mission is shaping up really nicely and there is a lot to look forward to. Those images of the moon with parts of the spacecrfat in the foreground remind me of Rosetta's fly-by of Mars.... as if we the viewers are looking out from a spacercraft which we are on-board.

Posted by: SpaceListener Oct 10 2007, 04:02 PM

http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/index_e.html

During the 4th LOI, Kaguya will lower from 2400 km apogee altitude to 800 km apogee altitude. The next step will free another small satelite of 50 kg: VRAD on October 12. Later, there will be two more LOI adjustments before entering the Lunar orbit at Oct 19.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 12 2007, 01:21 AM

VRAD (Vstar) separation coming up...


http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/topics/pdf/1012_0830_vstar_e.pdf



Phil

Posted by: kenny Oct 12 2007, 12:40 PM

.... and the VRAD satellite has departed, now-named "OUNA" meaning an "honorable elderly woman." How nice. A couple of photos show it sliding away into the black...

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071012_kaguya_e.html

Kenny

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 19 2007, 02:33 AM

Getting there...

http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/topics/pdf/1019_0925_loi56_e.pdf

Now for the images...

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 21 2007, 02:56 AM

Here's the latest - images from the monitoring camera in low orbit.


Phil

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071021_kaguya.pdf

Posted by: nop Oct 21 2007, 05:20 AM

You can see more images captured by the monitoring camera at:
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071021_kaguya.pdf

Sorry, it's written mainly in Japanese...

Posted by: nop Oct 21 2007, 06:14 AM

FYI, bigger images are here;
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_01.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_02.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_03.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_04.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_05.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_06.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_07.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_08.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_09.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_10.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_11.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_12.jpg
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_13.jpg

Posted by: Stu Oct 21 2007, 07:39 AM

Thanks for the links to those pics nop.

Is anyone else sitting there grinning, thinking "Those are just cool!!" ?

Posted by: mchan Oct 21 2007, 07:47 AM

They are indeed cool.

In http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/img/20071021_kaguya_02.jpg, that would not be Earth in the background instead of part of the spacecraft, would it?

Posted by: Stu Oct 21 2007, 08:09 AM

I spotted that too... very nice...!

Only problem with these images is that Moon-watchers like me are going to spend hours trying to identify craters on them... !!!

I'm looking out for the crater "Eddington" so I can plug both the probe's mission and my astro society in the local press! Very useful for publicity and recruitment!

Posted by: nop Oct 21 2007, 10:42 AM

In the Japanese PDF file, several craters are identified.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071021_kaguya.pdf

Some of them are written in English, but I'm afraid it uses Japanese fonts
I'm not sure if your PDF viewer can display them... if it can't, then I'll post screen captures

Posted by: ugordan Oct 21 2007, 10:57 AM

I took all 13 images and tweaked the color balance in them as it appears the blue channel overwhelms everything. A similar case was present with the HDTV image of Earth earlier. Hopefully they'll fix this during normal operations.
This tweak inevitably brought some overexposure in areas where the blue channel was already saturated.

I made an http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/14/1431389/kaguya.gif of all the frames (2 megabytes).

Here are a couple of sample shots:

Posted by: Stu Oct 21 2007, 12:27 PM

nop - screen captures would be really useful, thanks, simply because I'm heading out to work now and don't have time to go exploring that .pdf file!

ugordan - brilliant idea changing the colour balance, thanks, and the animation is great too.

How spoiled are we with all this talent here, seriously?!!

Posted by: nprev Oct 21 2007, 02:38 PM

Very. Extremely. To say nothing of your own, Stu...

Think it's safe to say that Kaguya has produced more vanity pics than any other spacecraft to date by now...love it, feels like we're looking out a porthole during the journey!!!

Posted by: nop Oct 21 2007, 03:03 PM

Ok, Stu, here are captures




(*COURTESY OF JAXA* without any edition)

And FYI this is translation of the press conference held today (thanks to JSPACE)
http://jspace.misshie.jp/index.php?LbyD%2F20071021

Posted by: dilo Oct 21 2007, 07:38 PM

Gordan, I noticed too the color issue in all images, joined to a general misfocus (rescaling?) and strong jpeg artifacts.
So I tried to mitigate all these defects and I made such poster with almost all published images (not too different from your nice movie idea ):

Posted by: nprev Oct 21 2007, 11:11 PM

Beautiful work, Dilo! God, it seems as if we could just reach out and touch it...

Posted by: elakdawalla Oct 22 2007, 02:58 AM

nprev, I think you've put your finger on why these kinds of photos -- with bits of spacecraft parts obtruding into them -- are so cool. If the spacecraft gets its thumb in the way of the lens, then why not me?

--Emily

Posted by: dvandorn Oct 22 2007, 04:57 AM

Having parts of the spacecraft framing these vistas provide us psychological referents. It vastly increases the ability to imagine yourself actually *in* the place you're looking at.

I think it says something about the human desire/need to explore that these images, which include spacecraft "framing" views, are somehow more satisfying than any others.

-the other Doug

Posted by: kenny Oct 22 2007, 08:52 AM

Agreed. Those Kagyusha "port-hole" views remind me of Rosetta flying past Mars...

http://www.esa.int/images/CIVA_Mars_30_H.jpg

Posted by: lyford Oct 22 2007, 04:20 PM

Agreed - I hope our graphics gurus will cross post some of the best on the http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=4592...

Posted by: ugordan Oct 23 2007, 05:24 PM

I KNEW those Kaguya vanity shots reminded me of something!

Posted by: belleraphon1 Oct 24 2007, 12:06 AM

KAGUYA rules....

Yeah.... the porthole effect.... the virtual thumb cover the Earth ....

All.... I remember watching Ranger 7 impact the Moon... and Apollo 8 give us Earthrise on a Christmas Eve in 1968.... seeing these new images now still gives me chills......

We are returning.

TEARS!!!

Craig

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 31 2007, 01:12 PM

More pictures - the various instruments are being deployed.

Phil

http://www.jaxa.jp/topics/2007/img/topics_20071031_e.pdf

Posted by: foe Nov 7 2007, 09:23 AM

here!

http://www.jaxa.jp/topics/2007/11_e.html
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071107_kaguya_movie_e.html

Posted by: djellison Nov 7 2007, 09:56 AM

That is just so very very cool. They should give 1080i MOV's to Apple to put on their trailers website

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Nov 7 2007, 10:34 AM

Happy...I am a happy man...

Posted by: kenny Nov 7 2007, 10:49 AM

Truly incredible... just like being there!

The best orbital views since Apollo... and if the full file is proper HDTV at a reasoable frame rate, then this is better quality than Apollo...

Posted by: ugordan Nov 7 2007, 11:41 AM

Anyone care to post a full-res screenshot? I'm at work and can't play the file.

Posted by: ustrax Nov 7 2007, 11:55 AM

Here you go...

Posted by: ugordan Nov 7 2007, 11:57 AM

Thanks, Ustrax!

Posted by: foe Nov 7 2007, 12:04 PM

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071107_kaguya_e.html
There are links to full res. image on thumbnailes.

Posted by: ustrax Nov 7 2007, 12:09 PM

No it is time for me to say...thanks foe!

Posted by: ugordan Nov 7 2007, 12:23 PM

Sweet stuff! I thought we'd have to wait until humans get back there for shots like these. All we need is an Earthrise sequence now.

Posted by: AndyG Nov 8 2007, 10:12 AM

If you link to the http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071107_kaguya.swf directly, you get the whole scene and player in bigger-o-vision.

Andy

Posted by: PhilCo126 Nov 9 2007, 06:24 PM

Who had thought we would get some High Definition TeleVision from the Moon?
Well it had to come from the Japanese anyway

Posted by: nop Nov 13 2007, 10:49 AM

A new HDTV movie of eath-rise and earth-set has been released:
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071113_kaguya_e.html
It reminds me of the great Christmas earth-rise take by Apollo 8

FYI, someone uploaded the capture of NHK news program featuring the previous HDTV moon image:
(the reso is higher than the flash video by JAXA. Strictly speaking, please note that the copyright is violated )
http://stage6.divx.com/user/tanabota/video/1833421/Kaguya(SELENE)

And another good news is that Kaguya successfully observed the gravity field of the far side of the moon directly by four-way Doppler observation using RSAT.
(the release only in Japanese. It's just notification of success, and no data have been reeased yet)
http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/j/topics/topics/2007/1112.shtml

Posted by: ustrax Nov 13 2007, 11:37 AM

My jaw refuses to leave the floor...
Amazing stuff!

Posted by: nprev Nov 13 2007, 12:21 PM

The Apollo 8 comparison is apt, nop. Far different view, though, than any obtained by Apollo (an upside down & nearly-full Earth!) Dramatic; inspiring!

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 13 2007, 12:39 PM

Fab images! And for orientation, the foreground ridge is the misnamed "peak of eternal light' between Shackleton (the real south polar crater, just above the copyright symbol) and de Gerlache, at the left edge. Malapert Mountain is just under the Earth. This is the best image I've ever seen for illustrating the geography of the place, which is also intended to be the target for the Chandrayaan-1 impact probe and the Selene 2 lander/rover.

Phil

Posted by: jmjawors Nov 13 2007, 03:25 PM

That Flash-player is a little balky, but the images are more than enough to totally make my morning.

Wow!

Posted by: ngunn Nov 13 2007, 04:50 PM

That movie won't play on our system (previous ones did). How big is the file?

I'd really like to show my students . . .

Posted by: elakdawalla Nov 13 2007, 04:55 PM

Sadly, I can't get the JAXA server to show me the movie -- they must be getting hit hard. The best I can manage right now is this animation (click to enlarge):

http://www.planetary.org/image/20071113_kaguya_03l_anim.gif

--Emily

Posted by: jmjawors Nov 13 2007, 04:57 PM

Someone put it on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkHuRRDshhg

Obviously the quality takes a hit, but at least we can actually watch it.

Posted by: belleraphon1 Nov 13 2007, 05:21 PM

All..

I can access the original site now. Had trouble earlier.

Almost like being there...... awesomely beautiful..... thanks JAXA.

Tears..

Craig

Posted by: Stu Nov 13 2007, 06:07 PM

Emily,

Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
THANK YOU!!!!!!!

unbeeeleeeevable.

Posted by: dvandorn Nov 13 2007, 06:39 PM

And yet, on that Stage6 page nop linked to, there is something to make the blood pressure rise...

There is only one comment left so far on the clip. "nice cg"

Makes ya wanna spit...!

-the other Doug

Posted by: Stu Nov 13 2007, 07:10 PM

Don't let it bug you too much. I realised a long time ago that such beauty is not meant to be appreciated by people like that.

Posted by: tedstryk Nov 13 2007, 11:53 PM

To be fair, I thought some of these images were cg myself - the quality is so clean that it almost doesn't seem real! What a phenomenal camera.

Posted by: jmjawors Nov 14 2007, 12:05 AM

Couldn't agree more. In fact, I sent one of the images to a friend of mine and made sure to mention that "this is not fake!"

Truly remarkable.

Posted by: DDAVIS Nov 14 2007, 01:38 AM

Just amazing, the best quality moving images ever returned from the Moon. Nicely composed, beautifully exposed, a camera with esthetic rather than exclusively 'dry science' guiding it! The value of obtaining imagery like this for it's own sake is a rare thing in US mission planning, Carolyn Porco had a struggle obtaining more than the 'bare science' images of the backlit rings mosaic, for what turned out to be the most widely circulated image of the Cassini mission. Let this be a lesson for what kind of imagery is worth obtaining. How long will it be until the US has a high def camera in Lunar or even Martian orbit?
One can imagine rotating the spacecraft so the camera turns around and back to its direction of travel over a few minutes mantaining the pictorial composition as much as possible. This would give interesting perspective effects as the foreground topography sped by faster in relation to the background from all angles. I would also suggest Orienting the camera straight down for passes over the western Orientale basin when it is suitably lit which could reveal the still poorly known topography there.

Don Davis

Posted by: nop Nov 14 2007, 03:21 AM

There often seems overload in the JAXA server now because of too much access.
If you have any trouble in seeing flash videos, try the mirror posted by an anonymous advocate
http://space.geocities.jp/jaxa_kaguya/kaguya_480-270earth.flv

I've read an informal episode that the onboard HDTV plan caused some controversy in scientists at first, because the HDTV camera is very fragile and its effectiveness is uncertain than other scientific equipment candidates. But Prof. Matogawa insisted on the importance of science outreach toward the public, and made much effort for the plan. Now I'm realizing that he was right

Posted by: nprev Nov 14 2007, 03:35 AM

Yes, he was...and glad to see that JAXA's learning the lesson early! This outreach should be a real boon for Japan's future UMSF efforts.

Posted by: SpaceListener Nov 14 2007, 03:50 AM

Wonderful movie specially by observing the Earth-rise and Earth-set!

This movie has two Earthset and they are different. Hence, I am guessing that the first ones is that Kaguya was flying over the North pole and the last ones corresponds to South pole. Am I right?

P.D. After visiting the Macplinger's post about JAXA's link and it has already answered to my questions.

Posted by: mcaplinger Nov 14 2007, 03:54 AM

What still images are you looking at? The ones at http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071113_kaguya_e.html look blurry and contaminated by video noise to my professional (but probably biased) eye...

Posted by: nop Nov 14 2007, 04:02 AM

Thanks, nprev, I agree and I also thank many predecessor spacecrafts by other countries for letting us know the importance of outreach

And FYI, DiscoveryChannel.ca will broadcast HDTV images Enjoy!
"North American EXCLUSIVE: First HD footage from the Moon"
http://www.discoverychannel.ca/shows/showdetails.aspx?sid=5180

Posted by: ugordan Nov 14 2007, 08:53 AM

Yes, they do. Though, the last movie seemed to show greater artifacts than this one (unless the screenshots were processed a bit), but showing both at only low resolution kills the artifacts and gives a CG impression. All this is missing now is some hand-shakiness to make it real real.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 16 2007, 12:43 PM

New images from the science cameras:

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071116_kaguya_e.html


Very promising!

Phil

Posted by: algorimancer Nov 16 2007, 01:43 PM

They're generating 10m vertical resolution terrain maps from the stereo imagery... which is nice, but I'd really like to see the stereo pair images. No sign of them yet. Patience, I suppose

Posted by: Rakhir Nov 16 2007, 02:57 PM

At 10m/pixel, the Smart-1 impact crater should be too small but at least the ejecta might be visible

Posted by: charborob Nov 16 2007, 04:02 PM

A resolution of 10 m/pixel is also not sufficient to identify Apollo remains, but we should be able to discern ground disturbance at the landing sites.

Posted by: nop Nov 16 2007, 04:37 PM

New videos taken by the HD camera:
(resolution is low )
http://jda.jaxa.jp/jda/v3_j.php?mode=search&genre=-1&keyword=%A4%AB%A4%B0%A4%E4&submit=%B8%A1%BA%F7%B3%AB%BB%CF

Posted by: ugordan Nov 16 2007, 06:08 PM

Some HDTV (1280x720) footage has surfaced up on the web, complete with Japanese titles.
A hundred seconds in length, it can be found here: http://video-veuillezpas.stage6.com/1833421.divx (261 megabytes!)

They overdid it a bit with the sharpening filter for my taste, but still it's pretty spectacular. Too bad they're not the recent Earth-involving shots at normal speed, but the 8x speed-ups.

Posted by: ilbasso Nov 17 2007, 01:32 AM

Wow, nice http://jda.jaxa.jp/jda/v4_j.php?v_id=f3745192d932c38111e2f5495a67d6c9&mode=search&keyword=%A4%AB%A4%B0%A4%E4 You may think ol' Luna is boring compared with Iapetus or other moons, but it still has plenty of beauty for my taste.

EDIT: I don't think we will be debating white-on-black or black-on-white in this example.

Posted by: nprev Nov 17 2007, 02:05 AM

...absolutely stunning! The contrast between Tsiolkovsky & the surrounding terrain is really remarkable.

Posted by: climber Nov 17 2007, 05:26 PM

I hope they'll lower the orbit down to 10 kms for the last extension!
It already give me the feeling to be there anyway.

Posted by: ugordan Nov 17 2007, 05:32 PM

I think that would be a very short-lived extension...

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 17 2007, 07:18 PM

And probably blurry pictures.

Posted by: tedstryk Nov 18 2007, 01:25 PM

If Kaguya can transmit in real time, a crash landing video would be neat. But that is for when it is out of fuel - right now, I am looking forward to more imagery from the science cameras.

Posted by: nprev Nov 18 2007, 01:35 PM

I'm looking forward to JAXA's first Mars orbiter with HDTV... (Yes, I know, bandwidth restrictions & all...)

Posted by: rlorenz Nov 18 2007, 02:27 PM

Looks very good - sort of HRSC at the moon. Is there going to be anything useful left for LRO
to do ?

It'd be really interesting/useful if someone put together a comparison table of the various cameras that have
been/are going to the moon (resolution, coverage, colors, stereo etc.) Maybe it exists (surely anyone
in the USA flying a camera has to justify it - maybe the Indian/Japanese/Chinese are all 'tech demos' like
AMIE on Smart-1

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 18 2007, 03:56 PM

LRO brackets the Kaguya resolution: global stereo and multispectral at 100 m/pixel, high resolution at 1 m/pixel (approx. values).

Somewhere I have seen a table comparing the current set of cameras. I'll try to find it and post it.

Phil

Posted by: edstrick Nov 19 2007, 02:55 AM

It's probably not really difficult to maintain a 10 or 15 km lunar orbit. You need 2 things.. maybe 3.

1.) A GOOD gravity model, reasonably high resolution, including the farside. You need to predict the exact spacecraft trajectory several orbits in advance to 1 km or better accuracy.

2.) Good tracking to verify what's the real orbit as opposed to the predict. A real-time engineering-ops lidar or RF altimiter wouldn't hurt.

3.) A propulsion system, maybe ion, maybe hypergolics running low thrust engines

You simply need to design a vehicle that will do an orbit trim maneuver or two every orbit. Just a 1/2 km tweek... just keep it circular within a small amount.

Posted by: dvandorn Nov 19 2007, 06:07 AM

I can see a sustained 25km lunar orbit, maybe, but I think a 10km orbit would be pushing it. A lot. After all, the Moon is lumpy, and not just gravitationally -- there are some mountains (well, basin and crater rims, mostly) that rise nearly 10km up from their surrounding terrains.

And, as the gallows humor that surrounded the Apollo 8 flight had it, "60 miles? Just wait 'til you get a load of that 61-mile-high mountain on the Far Side...!"



-the other Doug

Posted by: mps Nov 19 2007, 08:45 AM

Best spatial resolution: Chang'e 120 m/pix, Kaguya 10 m/pix, Chandrayaan-1 5 m/pix, LRO 0.5 m/pix
So, yes, LROC is very useful

P.S. It's my first post here. My english isn't very good, I hope this will not be a big problem.

Mps

Posted by: Stu Nov 19 2007, 09:07 AM

No problem at all Mps, welcome to UMSF!

Posted by: Del Palmer Nov 19 2007, 12:46 PM

I remember reading an AIAA paper that suggested "frozen orbits" exist at low altitude, with a caveat that the orbit's inclination matters significantly. It concluded that at certain inclinations (27º, 50º, 76º, and 86º) it is possible for a spacecraft to remain in a low-lunar orbit indefinitely, without OTMs.

Posted by: nprev Nov 19 2007, 01:16 PM

Wow...a stable 86 deg low orbit sounds like a real opportunity for an ultra-high resolution global mapping mission, or perhaps escaping volatile sensing/monitoring...

Posted by: ugordan Nov 19 2007, 02:03 PM

Of course, the original idea was lowering Kaguya's orbit at the end of mission. Neglecting the fuel required to actually lower the orbit, you'd still need propellant to maintain circularity. Spacecraft are usually running on fumes at end-of-mission so that's not very plausible.

What happens if you have unforseen downtime in your tracking support?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 19 2007, 03:08 PM

I'm not so sure about the 'frozen orbits'. I could be wrong - I seem to remember being wrong once... - but here, I think this is probably talking about the orbit plane being fixed with respect to the sun, so you have the same surface illumination all the time. Certain inclinations and orbit shapes give just the right combination of gravitational effects that the orbit is always, let's say, 15 degrees from the terminator.

Low lunar orbits are unstable because of the 'lumpy' gravitational field caused by mascons, which in typical low orbits cause the perilune to migrate up and down over time in complex ways - if I understand it correctly, right now, Kaguya's perilune is ascending, but later it will descend until it has to be corrected. The effects of the Earth, the sun and mascons together make life complicated. I don't think this can be 'frozen'.

Phil

Posted by: ugordan Nov 19 2007, 03:22 PM

I'd think mascons* are by far the greatest destabilizing factor for such a low orbit (10 km), with Earth and Sun getting progressively more important (and mascons less important) at higher orbits.

* mascons and high mountain peaks, that is.

Posted by: djellison Nov 19 2007, 05:06 PM

We've got two more cratering experiments due before Kaguya, Chang'e 1, LRO and Chandaraan 1 will be anywhere near end of life. I'm hoping that they go for barn-storming low-altitude science instead of crashing them into polar crater

Posted by: Del Palmer Nov 19 2007, 05:09 PM

Regarding frozen orbits, I couldn't find the original paper, but here's an http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/06nov_loworbit.htm that is derived from it.

Posted by: remcook Nov 19 2007, 05:35 PM

Judging from the link above it seems that these frozen orbits are different from sunsynchronous orbits of which Phil is speaking. J2 seems quite small for the moon, so I'm not sure sunsynchronous orbits are even possible for the moon. It looks like frozen orbit means that the lumpy gravity field will give nudges to the orbit that are not unstable in these cases.

Posted by: spdf Nov 19 2007, 08:41 PM

Here is some info about the problem which delayed Kaguyas launch.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features/science/20071120TDY03104.htm

Posted by: charborob Nov 20 2007, 03:21 PM

Some unfortunate news: due to copyright issues, JAXA will not distribute on the Web the full resolution HD movies taken by Kaguya .

See their FAQ (if you manage to understand the poor Japanese-to-English translation).

http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/en/communication/com_faq_e.htm

Posted by: ugordan Nov 20 2007, 03:29 PM

That is unfortunate and quite a loss to the PR effect in the rest of the world, IMHO. Giving a broadcasting corporation copyright for the hires footage seems weird. Did they sponsor or make the HDTV camera?

Posted by: ngunn Nov 20 2007, 04:09 PM

That is unfortunate indeed. I hope there are strong responses both here and elsewhere that lead to a change of thinking.

Posted by: ugordan Nov 20 2007, 04:17 PM

Without knowing the underlying reasons for this decision, I don't think we should be judging it. After all, we're lucky we even saw TV footage from the moon, all of that could be regarded as a gesture of good will on the mission's behalf. Personally, though, I wasn't pleased when I found out the HDTV exclusive would go to Discovery Channel. Why have "exclusives" in the first place? Why not just show the entire world? Could the entire camera be on a profit-based reasoning, selling HDTV footage at a nice price?

Posted by: djellison Nov 20 2007, 04:17 PM

I have a DIVX of one of them already. It's neive to imagine they won't get online quickly. The grim reality of it is this - if JAXA don't release it via the web on their own terms, in top notch quality - then it will end up being distributed as dodgy quality DIV-X's without people being particularly aware of where it's come from and how. They've missed a trick there. We've had some cool stills, and some cool low res movies - perhaps lots of Yen are involved in some way - but it's a fairly short sighted way of doing things.

Doug

Posted by: ugordan Nov 20 2007, 04:26 PM

Perhaps we here are biased in this regard, but my opinion is widely distributing awesome, high-res footage like this would only help boost Japan's space program in the public minds and hence result in additional funding. That's a good thing, right?
Let's face it, people are suckers for this kind of media. Freely publishing say gamma-ray spectrometer readings of the moon, while at the same time keeping gems like these proprietary is a questionable move indeed. Granted, other scientific instruments have proprietary periods for their PIs to work on the data, but this is simply a Kodak moment camera so what is to be gained by keeping the stuff for themselves?

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 04:32 PM

I'm surprised. I would have expected most here to be in favor of
the commercialization/popularization of space exploration. I don't
think you can have one without the other. If sponsorship of an
HDTV helps pay for a mission that also happens to perform useful
science, what's wrong with that?

Posted by: djellison Nov 20 2007, 04:39 PM

Well - to assume this is a commercialisation issue is to make assumptions about the camera, its funding, its contribution to the spacecraft as a whole and what the reasoning behind the decision is.

If a corporation funds an instrument, but releases half a dozen stills and a 1/5th res movie....then you have to wonder what the point is in sending the full res camera in the first place? Clearly in this instance, commercialisation and popularisation are at odds with one another.

Doug

Posted by: ugordan Nov 20 2007, 04:40 PM

You think the amount of money gained by sponsorship is anywhere near enough to boost the entire mission? I'm guessing it's not. In the end it probably just covers its own cost of adding another instrument camera, its integration & testing, etc. Someone said here other scientists were actually opposed to flying this camera at all so there's probably more to this story than meets the eye.

Posted by: nprev Nov 20 2007, 04:54 PM

I'm gonna take a WAG & speculate that NHK purchased exclusive distro rights for the HDTV products as a condition of its support so that it can construct some sort of product for its own marketing: TV special, IMAX-style movie, something like that. So, we'll see it all, but probably not till well after the iron has grown cold...

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 04:54 PM

I don't know why a commercial enterprise would have exclusive rights,
but I expect that there is an advantage to JAXA. And what's good for
JAXA is good for space exploration, right? The benefit may be tiny, but
all journeys begin with one step. If ten years from now, JAXA launches
the first wholly sponsored lunar rover, who will complain?

As to quality of released video, I would hope that Discovery Channel will
make make good use of high quality images for some great programming
that will reach the masses. Perhaps there could be pay per view available
on the Discovery Channel web site. Or even free, with adverts paying.
I for one find this exciting if indeed it is a first step to greater corporate
sponsorship of space exploration.

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 04:57 PM

If my (and I thought everyone's) hopes are true concerning corporate
sponsorship of space exploration, the iron is just heating up!!!

Posted by: djellison Nov 20 2007, 05:04 PM

There's corporate sponsorship and then there's corporate sponsorship. It's short sighted to automatically assume it's a good thing in every situation.

In this situation, we have some awesome high res stills, some awesome low res movies, and then if you look hard enough, DIVX's of the high res footage as well. Eventually, I'm sure, the footage will creap out at good quality. I don't have an HDTV, I don't intend getting an HDTV for a few years, so if all they're going to do is broadcast it on Discovery HD - I'm not going to see it. Kaguya is happening now - they should be sharing that awesome footage with everyone now as well. I'm hoping to do a new talk based on this Lunar Flotilla that's setting out, but to not have this awesome footage to show to people, knowing it's sat on HDD's somewhere, that's frustrating beyond belief.

If a commercial operation want's to do this sort of stuff on a governmental vehicle, then it needs to do it with entirely good intentions. Put your name on it, copyright it, use it for advertising...but keep it to yourself? My feet are in the 'for all mankind' camp rather than the 'for all our shareholders' camp I'm afraid.

Doug

Posted by: tedstryk Nov 20 2007, 05:10 PM

One thing I wonder - is the broadcasting company going to try to keep them off the web indefinitely, or are they holding them back long enough so that they can show the best footage first. Not knowing anything about Japanese television, it is hard to tell.

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 05:22 PM

Even if not well executed (in some opinions) at least it's something to build on.
I can only hope that whatever Discovery Channel uses the video for is very successful
and results in increased sponsorship in the future.

This may be similar to the music download situation where for a time music enthusiasts
were spoiled with a treasure of free music online and revolted when asked to pay.
A balance has to be found between free and paid material if sponsorship is to be involved.

The space enthusiasts may be upset by production delays, but in the end the
mission's appeal to the masses will be enhanced by the finished product, not
diminished. (Of course, I'm making assumptions about the product.) I do think
high quality images should be available on line in a controlled manner. These
are the things that need to be worked out as sponsorship of space exploration
grows (hopefully).

Posted by: nprev Nov 20 2007, 05:24 PM

I'm betting on NHK doing a BBC- or Discovery-style documentary...so they'll run the camera for quite some time to acquire enough footage, with an emphasis on "wow" shots. Don't expect anything for a year or so.

Posted by: ugordan Nov 20 2007, 05:26 PM

Maybe it's a business deal. Maybe they're saving the good high-res stuff for a Lipovitan D commercial (including a deal with the company producing the drink as well). In exchange NHK and the company would provide JAXA with a lifetime supply of the said drink. All sides profit this way.

Posted by: dvandorn Nov 20 2007, 05:45 PM

Yes, but... can you imagine the following scenario?

ARMSTRONG: OK, I'm gonna step off the LM, now. That's one...

CRONKITE: Thanks for watching. A full video of the rest of this Moonwalk will be available for purchase sometime in November. Please tune in to the CBS Evening News for another twenty seconds of this amazing scene. Until then, I'm Walter Cronkite, looking forward to a huge bonus in my paycheck. Good night.



-the other Doug

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 05:56 PM

Capitalism is what makes the world go 'round, right?

Our local baseball and hockey teams used to play in the Thunderdome and
Ice Palace (great names!) respectively. Now, due to corporate sponsorship,
it's Tropicana Field and the St. Petersburg Times Forum.

On the bright side, it should make for fewer public mission-naming contests,
the results of which I've seen criticized here.

Posted by: ugordan Nov 20 2007, 06:02 PM

If this were a solely privately funded launch and probe, I'd have no objections to your reasoning, centsworth_II. This is a JAXA launch which most likely means that japanese tax payers paid for the largest majority of the mission, including the launch vehicle. What, then, gives NHK the right to claim the footage as theirs only? It is riding after all on the taxpayers' money, not suspended in the blackness of space all by itself.

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 06:03 PM

On the other hand, capitalism corrupts. Reading the "no MARDI images from Phoenix"
thread I wonder, what if MARDI were sponsored? What effect would that have on the
decision making process? What a tangled web we weave!

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 20 2007, 06:08 PM

We are getting a lot of discussion out of little information. It's
just that my first reaction to hearing of possible corporate sponsorship
for a space mission was one of excitement. Of course there will be
give and take involved, but I hope the trend in this direction is good
for all: Scientists, enthusiasts, and the general public.

Posted by: nprev Nov 20 2007, 06:24 PM

Mmm...I'm not optimistic. I see where you're coming from, centsworth, but not releasing at least the raw HDTV imagery seems excessive. If NHK wants to make a slick product later on & market it, then fine; I'm sure it would knock everyone's socks off & be far superior to anything even the UMSF imagesmiths could construct, being restricted to the REALLY small screen as they are.

As is, cutting all releases off until some date to be determined defeats what I'd been assuming was the real purpose of the instrument: public outreach.

Posted by: jabe Nov 20 2007, 08:20 PM

For my 2 cents worth,
We have seen more data from the Kaguya then from Mars express
In order to do certain things I think other businesses will pitch in "free" stuff if they can get some control of the results. I'm not sure if the idea is right or wrong but it will probably happen more often. But I doubt a HD camera would have been installed if it wasn't for the conditions presently being used...
only a humble opinion

Posted by: mchan Nov 21 2007, 06:42 AM

Agreed this is much discussion without a lot of info on the commercial contract (if there was such). In the absence of more info, I look at what has been released so far as the "coming attractions" preview. If complete image sets were available at near HDTV quality, I imagine with the talent seen just in this forum that there would be knock-off videos available for download way before the actual studio release such that the commercial value of the studio release is reduced.

Another analogy may be to consider the scientific value of raw data that comes from missions like Cassini and the scientific value of the corrected and calibrated images release in the PDS after 6 months. Compare that with the commerical value of HD images we have seen from Kaguya and the commerical value of the full HD video "studio" release at some later date.

Posted by: Pedro_Sondas Nov 21 2007, 12:52 PM

Music for Kaguya

http://www.sondasespaciales.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10810&Itemid=95

http://www.sondasespaciales.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10811&Itemid=95

Posted by: nop Nov 22 2007, 03:47 PM

I know also my English is very poor, but this translation is too bad ... I feel ashamed ...

BTW, I read your interesting discussion on restrict of HDTV image distribution.
I'm a participant in some Japanese BBS about space probes, and there have also been many disapprovals.
Our oponion is almost same as yours; JAXA/NHK should distribute full-res movies.

Some of you may know S. Matsuura, a free journalist specializing space development, known for reports of press conferences on Kaguya and Hayabusa.
He is strongly protesting the NHK for its policy. (written in Japanese. If you have any questions, tell me and then I'll try partial translation )
http://www.nikkeibp.co.jp/style/biz/feature/matsuura/space/071122_nhk/
According to his article, JAXA would rather distribute HDTV movies for outreach and promotion, but NHK denied it.
NHK is insisting that all contents should be provided via broadcast, not via internet. Matsuura speculates that NHK is afraid that web distribution might disturb NHK's business using obtained movies. As some of you already pointed out, such policy will end up in circulation of degraded pirate movies.

Anyway, if you have complaint, how about sending an e-mail to NHK?

Posted by: nprev Nov 22 2007, 04:13 PM

Nop, do you think e-mails from non-Japanese citizens would carry any weight with NHK? (Honest question; not sure if they're trying to cultivate a foreign audience or not with the HDTV products. I haven't seen an equivalent to "BBC America" here in the US from NHK, for example, though would love to.) If true, then they might care about our opinion.

TV networks in the US do indeed respond to letter-writing campaigns, BTW.

Posted by: Norm Hartnett Nov 22 2007, 06:10 PM

I would swear that I had seen somewhere that NHK not only sponsored the HDTV cameras but also did the development work. IMO that makes them the PI and as such they would certainly have the right to release results when they were ready.

Posted by: nop Nov 22 2007, 08:14 PM

Hmmm... difficult question.
Indeed I think the possibility that voices from non-Japanese people can actually move NHK is quite low, unfortunately.
I guess it is unlikely that NHK would venture into overseas.
NHK may be planning to sell DVDs of moon videos later, but I'm not sure if they wil be sold in other countries.
(note that I know very little about NHK, and information from Matsuura is fragmentary. It's just my guess)
Particularly, this issue involves very subtle problems about copyright, so NHK won't change their policy easily even if Japanese people strongly ask them
But I think it is at least significant to tell them that there are *very large demands* for HDTV images from around the world.
NHK seems to underestimate or be unaware of the value of the moon HDTV movies.
I hear some Japanese citizen have already sent e-mails to NHK for wider distribution of HDTV moon movies.
Sorry for my shallow agitation, nprev; the effectiveness of e-mails from overseas is indeed doubtful, but not zero, I believe

Posted by: nprev Nov 22 2007, 09:48 PM

Not shallow at all, nop; thanks! I'll certainly send an e-mail to NHK, but hopefully a lot more Japanese citizens will do the same...they are NHK's source of revenue, and therefore their opinion really counts!

EDIT: Nop, I just checked out the NHK English pages, and can't find a "contact us" link or an e-mail address anywhere. If you can, could you please post their e-mail address?

Posted by: foe Nov 23 2007, 01:31 AM

I could not find Email address or for customar page in English, too.

here is japanese page.
https://cgi2.nhk.or.jp/css/form/web/mail_program/query.cgi

(and fax +81-3-5453-4000)


it is macine tracelation.
please someone do good tracelate.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
1. I hope filling in the mail address without fail according to the convenience of the system. Moreover, please select sex, the age, and the classification though filling in the name, the address, and the telephone number is arbitrary.
2. Filling in the name, the address, and the telephone number is arbitrary. It is likely to answer in the methods (telephone and letter, etc.) other than "Reply" of mail, and fill in the name, the address, and the telephone number, etc. accurately, please when the answer is hoped.
3. Please acknowledge being likely being likely to require time to answer moreover when it is not possible to answer according to the content of the inquiry beforehand.

Name (kana) [ ] (2byte character)
Name (kanji) [ ] (2byte character)
Sex [list] <please select, men,women
Age [list] <plase select, above19,20th,30th,40th,50th,60th,over70,unkown
Address [list] <plase select, last one 'Foreign countries'
[ ] <address in Japan or your country
Telephone number [ ]
Fax number [ ]
Mail address [ ] (alphanumeric character)
Program name(subject) [ ]
Media [list] <plase select, TV1, TV3, BS1,BS2, BS-hi, AM1, AM2, FM, international-broadcast, internet, unknown
Classification [list] <plase select, Inquiry, Opinion and demand, Others
Comments or opinions [ ]
(I hope excuse me within 400 characters.
(Please note that all content filled in to exceed 400 characters by the convenience of the system cannot be registered.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -




Why NHK collects personal info?
I think NHK want to find watcher wituout payment. :-P

Posted by: nop Nov 23 2007, 12:41 PM

Oh, I completely forgot to show where to contact. Very sorry, nprev, and thanks a million to foe for your kindly posting detailed and quick follow-up!

I'm with you. Too much requirement for private information!
NHK seems to be reluctant to listen to its viewers ...

... Sorry, but I digress. BTW, a moviesmith in the Japanese BBS posted a nice movie on YouTube; several HDTV videos taken by Kaguya are concatenated into one with captions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ASw97KUMZ0

Posted by: nprev Nov 23 2007, 01:16 PM

Foe & Nop, I sent what I could on that form (which is REALLY tough to get right using non-Japanese ASCII; had to insert a whole bunch of spaces!) Anyhow, here's what I wrote:

I am disappointed at the fact that KAGUYA's HDTV products are not being distributed publicly. The entire purpose of this instrument is public outreach, and NHK is doing JAXA a severe disservice by failing to publicize this accomplishment and thereby building public support for funding such missions. Furthermore, there is substantial international interest in the mission; therefore, NHK is missing an opportunity to market itself overseas, which may be an unwise business decision.

If anybody wants to copy & paste & send it again, feel free.

Posted by: charborob Nov 26 2007, 05:30 PM

Here's a question for the image wizards on this forum. Using the stereo images taken by Kaguya's Terrain camera, do you think it may be possible to generate views of the Moon from a surface perspective? I mean, vertical and oblique views taken from orbit are interesting, but if we could look at lunar scenery as if we were standing on the surface, wouldn't that be mind-boggling? It would be possible to virtually visit places that will never be seen (either by rover or by humans) in our lifetime. Imagine standing on Tycho's rim and looking inside! Or whatever your favorite place is.

Maybe in a few years Google will have all the lunar 3D data available for viewing this way on Google Moon. In the meantime, what can we do with the images (if the Japanese make them available, of course)?

Posted by: edstrick Nov 27 2007, 08:02 AM

Surface perspective views at 20 meter/pixel will generally be awful in the forground and lousy in the midrange. Except for panoramas from mountain peaks and from crater rims (which don't have much foreground!), better shots could be made from low altitude, say 1/4 to 1 km+ simulated altitude.

Posted by: charborob Nov 27 2007, 03:12 PM

OK, so it may not be a good idea to try to generate virtual surface views. You propose 1/4 to 1 km simulated altitude. How can we do it? Is there some software that can generate 3D views from two stereoscopic images?

Posted by: djellison Nov 27 2007, 04:39 PM

The generation of a terrain model from stereo views is a complex and difficult process. It's one that you really have to leave to the instrument team. Bjorn is making awesome progress with Cassini stuff, however for pushbroom stereo cameras like HRSC or the lunar cameras etc - it's something the instrument team are going to be doing anyway.

The challenge is then to visualise this stuff - and that requires a 3d engine, decent hardware etc etc.

Essentially, it's a programming project of significant size.

Doug

Posted by: charborob Nov 27 2007, 05:15 PM

I was somehow expecting that it would be more difficult than just plugging two images into a piece of software. I hope the imaging teams working on Kaguya, Chang'e and LRO will produce many interesting 3D views of the Moon. I am a bit tired of having just the Apollo, Surveyor and Luna sites to look at.

Posted by: nop Nov 28 2007, 10:45 AM

3-D movies have come
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071128_kaguya_e.html

And FYI here's another release.
Written only in Japanese, sorry, because it's a report presented at Space Activity Commission, a governmental committee.
They have successfully completed checkout of HDTV, TC, MI, SP, XRS, LMAG, LRS and GRS. Some new data are included.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/11/20071128_sac_kaguya.pdf

Posted by: As old as Voyager Nov 28 2007, 05:30 PM

Here's an example of some simulated surface views of the Apollo 17 landing site in the Taurus-Littrow Valley. These were done pior to the mission and match up pretty well with the views actually seen by Cernan and schmitt.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.horizons.jpg

Posted by: charborob Nov 30 2007, 03:09 PM

Here's an excerpt from the updated Kaguya FAQ:

"What is the data release plan for KAGUYA?
One year after the end of the nominal operation phase (about two years after the launch), all KAGUYA products will be opened for public access online. During this one year data study period for instrument teams’ data research and validation / verification, sample data will be posted on the homepage for public outreach."


Looks like we won't have any real-time raw images to sink our teeth into this time again, just the occasional "wow" image. I suppose after waiting for 35 years (I'm not counting Clementine) another year or two is bearable. I hope the people running LRO will have a different philosophy.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Dec 6 2007, 11:04 PM

A new image gallery has been opened. No new images yet but presumably it will grow.

http://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.html


Confession. I hate overly complex websites like this. Just give me a list or a set of simple thumbnails.

Phil

Posted by: ilbasso Dec 7 2007, 01:21 AM

At least it's not quite in the same league as most of my Japanese-made electronics with the typical "push Display and Channel for 5 seconds to set Hour."

Posted by: FordPrefect Dec 7 2007, 12:08 PM

Hello fine folks, experts!

I have only one question which bugged me for a while. Regarding the three-dimensional terrain images by TC camera stereo view data: How do they obtain elevation data for the areas which are "hidden" completely by shadow? There is no useful pixel information which can be correlated, is there? Or do they have additional elevation data available to complement the missing data (e.g. laser ranging)? I have been reading quite some stuff about digital photogrammetry lately (which I find very interesting btw) but this remains a mystery to me. Anybody who can literally shed some light into this, please do so. Thanks a lot

Posted by: dilo Dec 7 2007, 05:57 PM

Hi FordPrefect! (and thanks for all the fish! ).
Obviously is impossible to make stereography or photoclinometry for completely dark regions, however Kaguya has anoboard laser altimetry...
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/en/equipment/lalt_e.htm
your friend Arthur Dent.

Posted by: nprev Dec 7 2007, 08:42 PM

exp 42!

Posted by: FordPrefect Dec 8 2007, 12:24 PM

Thank you Arthur, err dilo for pointing that out. Laser-altimetry! I should have known better.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Dec 10 2007, 03:29 PM

The image gallery mentioned above has been updated with Earthrise/Earthset images.

PS Ford - it does have a laser altimeter, but the data are not yet adequate for what you are talking about. In these earliest views the slope would just be extrapolated into shadows for visualization.

Phil

Posted by: Norm Hartnett Dec 11 2007, 05:40 PM

NASA just announced GRAIL http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2007/dec/HQ_07274_Grail_Mission.html and I am a little puzzled as to how this differs from the expected KAGUYA - RELAY - VRAD satellite results on MASCONs etc.

Posted by: nprev Dec 11 2007, 05:49 PM

Hmm. We just might be seeing the bare beginnings of a land rush here, IMHO. Looks like there's lots of resource/geophysical survey interest all of a sudden from several quarters. The next ten years might be interesting indeed...

Posted by: edstrick Dec 12 2007, 11:33 AM

"I am a little puzzled as to how this differs from the expected KAGUYA - RELAY - VRAD satellite results on MASCONs etc."

I believe this is 2 spacecraft in low orbit, one following the other. Essentially a lunar version of the ultra high signal-to-noise and high resolution GRACE mission in low earth orbit. Spacecraft track each other. Kaguya/Relay simply gets the lunar orbiter radio signal out from behind the farside for otherwise "as usual" range/doppler radio tracking.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Dec 14 2007, 08:55 AM

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/12/20071214_kaguya_e.html Observations using the Spectral Profiler (SP) now that's interesting.

Posted by: elakdawalla Dec 21 2007, 10:45 PM

JAXA press release: Transition to normal science operations (http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/12/20071221_kaguya_j.html- http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaxa.jp%2Fpress%2F2007%2F12%2F20071221_kaguya_j.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

I think these are http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaxa.jp%2Fpress%2F2007%2F12%2F20071221_kaguya_j.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 too but I'm not sure what they show...there's an elf preventing me from sitting and watching them all the way through...there does seem to be some geometrical information in a table on the original release page, describing the locations of the videos.

--Emily

Posted by: Phil Stooke Dec 22 2007, 01:20 AM

Nice. Yes, there is lat-long data for each. And the Apollo 17 flyover also shows the dark 'bay' of Le Monnier crater, containing the Lunokhod-2 site. Another video is of the Sinus Iridum area with the Lunokhod-1 site off at left early in the video.

Phil

Posted by: djellison Dec 22 2007, 02:18 AM

Lens Flare. Sweet

Posted by: nop Dec 22 2007, 05:48 PM

The release says that checkout has been finished and all instruments exhibit expected performance, except for XRS and CPS.
As for XRS, they found that observation by four CCDs causes more measurement noises than expected. Now they are considering how to reduce noises. And they are using a single CCD for the time being, which seems better than observation with four CCDs. Resolution will be halved, but it seems enough for getting desired data.
CPS turned out to be disordered in detection of heavy particles about two hours after starting observation, because of overheating of voltage control circuit. Now they are using CPS when the temperature is low.
Anyway, they are now managing to solve these problems.



You can see four videos directly at:
http://space.jaxa.jp/movie/index_20071221_kaguya_j.html
- Crater Lyot and Mare Australe (14 Nov, 22:47-22:55)
- Crater Posidonius and Mare Serenitatis (19 Nov, 3:21-3:29)
- Rise of crescent Earth and Venus, seen from South Pole (22 Nov, 3:14-3:22)
- From Mare Imbrium to Sinus Iridium and Montes Jura (23 Nov, 17:17-17:25)

... though I cannot find out where the venus is

The circle in the following image points around Apollo 17 landing site. The right region is Montes Taurus, and the left is Mare Serenitatis.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/12/img/20071221_kaguya_01_j.jpg

Posted by: nop Dec 29 2007, 09:35 AM

FYI, you can download Kaguya's orbit ephemeris data during the critical phase (compressed with LZH format):
http://edu.jaxa.jp/news/file.cgi/722.lzh?id=722

The data is based on the CCSDS format (epoch, X, Y, Z, X_dot, Y_dot, Z_dot).
http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/502x0b1.pdf

Posted by: elakdawalla Jan 10 2008, 05:38 PM

They just posted a story, including some neat images, on successful observations using the laser altimeter and radar sounder. The results seem really important -- they report detection of near-horizontal strata as much as 500 meters below the surface of the Moon. I won't have time to study this stuff closely until after the MESSENGER flyby, which is too bad -- there's some really great science to look at here!
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2008/01/20080110_kaguya_e.html

--Emily

Posted by: FordPrefect Jan 11 2008, 01:43 PM

As someone trying to CG render parts of the lunar surface with a high degree of accuracy, and sorry for my non-scientific interruption here, that comment in the recent press release above got me very excited. How many times did I long for a decent DEM map of the entire Moon, like we have of Mars today! It looks like we don't need to wait for LRO to do this job (if it was ever intended to do so...)
Now the big question is whether it will be publicly available, once they've completed it? I guess that process alone will take some time (years?).

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 11 2008, 02:24 PM

It will be released, and it will take some years. Meanwhile, the most complete DEM for the moon is here:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2006/1367/dems/Images_16B/


- the zipped files. They are signed 16-bit TIFFs, which means they include negative values as well as positive. They can't be opened properly by Photoshop because of the negative values, but other software which can use signed TIFFs could use them. I have more information if someone needs it, but right now I'm not set up to deal with the files. If someone can convert these files to unsigned TIFFs I'd be very pleased!

Phil

Posted by: djellison Jan 11 2008, 03:20 PM

I got your notes on handling that - I've been flat out HRSC Dem'ing - but I'll have a look at these over the w'end

Doug

Posted by: FordPrefect Jan 11 2008, 03:25 PM

Thanks Phil for your reply!

These files do sound interesting! I'd be willing to have a closer look, so you may throw the further info at me. I have to admit I'm by no means an expert like many of you around here esp. in respect to image processing, though I am open to learn more about it. So how would I go to convert these files to unsigned TIFF's?

*Edit* Just spotted Doug's reply, so my offer is probably obsolete.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 11 2008, 04:13 PM

I've just found I can open the file in OpenEV-FW. The fix is to add 9000 to every pixel value, which changes the range from (-8000 to 8000) to (1000 to 17000). There are tools in it to allow you do this, but I haven't figured out the method yet. However, I have to say, alas, that the quick look at the file in OpenEV-FW does not look very promising - still not very high quality for detailed visualizations. But there are some high resolution regional DEM datasets I'll give links to later - polar regions and Apollo groundtracks.

Phil

Posted by: FordPrefect Jan 11 2008, 04:33 PM

Phil, these are the ones I've been playing around with in the past. *EDIT* Removed rest of post since getting too off-topic.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 7 2008, 06:12 PM

Some new HDTV images at:

http://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.html

The North Orientale one is especially good.

There are some good Kaguya abstracts at LPSC this yrear as well.

Phil

Posted by: elakdawalla Mar 13 2008, 03:11 PM

I made a couple of contacts with Kaguya HD related people at LPSC, and have the opportunity to ask some questions. I thought I'd see if anyone here had some suggestions for questions other than when or if the full-res video will ever be released to the Internet...

--Emily

Posted by: ugordan Mar 13 2008, 03:15 PM

Hm... Is there any chance Kaguya did some Earthgazing at the time of the last lunar eclipse? If not, are there any plans for doing so in the (pretty distant) future?

Oh, and... When will HDTV movies of Earth rise/set be made available on the Internet?

Posted by: djellison Mar 13 2008, 03:20 PM

How about pure bribery. I'd pay for a Blu-Ray disc full of it. Is that an option for the future? Is the camera excluded from the pds-style release of the rest of the instruments on board?

Did they get any film footage of the Sub Sats?

What's the pipeline for the instrument - does it record and compress a movie onboard, and then it's transmitted as a single product - or are they streamed in real time? Are they a 25fps movie, or are they slower, but presented ''sped up"?

Was the vehicle in survival mode during the recent eclipse, or did they manage to use the camera during it?

D

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 13 2008, 06:03 PM

HDTV can be used for educational purposes (which covers a lot of things) - the NHK representative handed out contact information and terms of use. I'll give details when I'm home.

Phil

Posted by: scalbers Mar 16 2008, 08:42 PM

Some pretty neat movies from SELENE can be found presently on the BBC News Website. Guess they've been there for a while, and I'm just catching up These are pretty decent resolution compared with some I can see on YouTube.

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=moon%20Selene&recipe=all&scope=all&edition=i

Posted by: peter59 Mar 27 2008, 02:08 PM

http://www.blu-ray.com/

Pony Canyon has announced that they will release 'Kaguya Tsuki Sekai Hiko' for Blu-ray in Japan on June 18th, a full month before the DVD release. This disc will feature 17 minutes of high definition footage of the Moon and Earthrise as shot by NHK and JAXA's Kaguya probe. The footage has been set to classical music, and will give viewers a never before seen look at our closest celestial neighbor. No technical specs have been announced for the release at this time. It was originally planned for HD DVD release, but with the death of that format, those plans have been canceled.

Posted by: djellison Mar 27 2008, 02:36 PM

Sweet.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 28 2008, 06:31 PM

The Apollo 11 site:

hthttp://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/data/jpn/mi/002/mi_002_1_l.jpg

The actual Apollo 11 site is a brighter patch... interesting. Apollo 15-17 pan cameras also saw this at their sites.

Phil

Posted by: nprev Mar 28 2008, 06:41 PM

...I was actually just preparing to ask you to show the precise location of the site, Phil; thanks!

Descent stage exhaust? (Best guess...)

Posted by: elakdawalla Mar 28 2008, 08:09 PM

Phil, is there an html page with any caption or other information associated with the large image URL you posted? I wandered around a bit and couldn't find it.

I just have to add that I really hate that Flash image gallery that Kaguya uses.

--Emily

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 28 2008, 08:15 PM

So far it's only here:

http://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/index_j.html

- the Japanese language version of the detestable site. Yes, I hate it too. I'm a big believer in keeping things simple. The Japanese site is updated before the English version. There's a false color version too.

Phil

Posted by: climber Mar 28 2008, 09:06 PM

West carter. Is that the one where Armstrong walked without letting us know or another one?

Posted by: Juramike Mar 28 2008, 09:09 PM

The image on the right is a ratio'd composite. I believe (I don't read kanji but used this http://unipen.nici.kun.nl/kanji/english.html to check) the symbols in the legend below indicate:

Red = 750 nm / 415 nm
Green = 750 nm /950 nm
Blue = 415 nm / 750 nm

The Apollo 11 site is in a small little blue splot. There are other little random blue splots around the surrounding area.

-Mike

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 28 2008, 10:40 PM

West crater is not the one Armstrong ran across to, that's much closer in and not resolved in the Kaguya image.

Phil

Posted by: dvandorn Mar 29 2008, 06:15 AM

I'm a little surprised that East Crater (var. Little West Crater) isn't resolved. Compare the Kaguya view to the following view:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11mrf5-08.gif

Many other craters the size and depth of East Crater are resolved quite nicely in the Kaguya image.

I'm not disagreeing that this is the landing site -- the rest of the landmarks seem to match up pretty well to a cursory inspection. But I'm surprised that East isn't resolved.

-the other Doug

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 29 2008, 12:07 PM

I always call it Little West. East crater, as far as I know, is only used on the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. Little West Crater is used on the Defense Mapping Agency map of the Apollo 11, 12 and 14 landing sites. Either would be fine, I suppose, but you get into a habit...

Phil

Posted by: dvandorn Mar 29 2008, 06:32 PM

You can tell I spend a lot of time perusing the ALSJ, can't you?

In point of fact, I tend to think of it as Little West, myself, since it actually lies farther west than West Crater. It was only given the name East because it lies immediately east of the landing site. But to have a crater named West and a crater named East, and to have West Crater to the east of East Crater -- that always struck me as a little too odd for my tastes.

-the other Doug

Posted by: kenny Apr 4 2008, 10:59 AM

I think Eagle is at the eastern end of the bright patch, comparing the Selene image with this...

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11mrf5-08.gif

Yes, it's odd that Little West crater is not resolved, but it's fairly shallow (unlike West) as Armstrong's surface photos of it show. You can see how other large subdued craters in that image are in danger of disappearing at higher sun angles, so perhaps that's why Little West fades away. The widest part of the bright patch appears to me to be west of the LM, so might be ascent engine scouring at lift-off, and we know the blast was strong enough to knock over the flag, set up west of the LM.

Posted by: Ian R Apr 4 2008, 11:56 AM

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the Apollo 11 flag was knocked over by the RCS hot-fire testing that was conducted prior to launch.

Ian.

Posted by: dvandorn Apr 4 2008, 12:06 PM

I'm not sure about that, Ian. I seem to recall Aldrin noting that he saw the flag go over as Eagle lifted off and rose away from the landing site.

I know that the RCS hot fire tests knocked over the erectable S-band antennae on both Apollos 12 and 14, though. That may be what you're thinking of. (And at the 14 site, the flag, which never blew over, was flipped around on its pole both by the RCS hot fire and by a couple of cabin depress cycles...)

-the other Doug

Posted by: kenny Apr 4 2008, 04:29 PM

The flag blew over at lift-off according to Aldrin in his book "Return to Earth". But when he describes the lunar lift-off in his other book, "Men From Earth", he doesn't mention this.

Posted by: edstrick Apr 5 2008, 06:30 AM

In the data acquisition 16 mm cam footage from the LM window during ascent, the flag can be seen flapping violently and the pole swaying vigorously in the exhaust blast from the LM. I have NOT single-frame stepped through the available frames (till it goes out of window-framed view), but aware of the "flag fell down" controversy, I've watched the footage everytime I see an Apollo 11 program, and it continues to look to me like the flag had not fallen over at last camera sighting.

It may have fallen over 1/4 second later, but....

Posted by: kenny Apr 5 2008, 02:32 PM

I just reviewed the Apollo 11 lift-off film. The camera was started late, at an altitude of a few 100 feet I'd estimate. There is no view of the flag in any post-ignition scene. The flapping flag images are taken from the Apollo 14 lift-off movie and spliced into several documentaries about Apollo 11.

Posted by: dvandorn Apr 5 2008, 04:27 PM

The footage to which you refer is from the Apollo 14 mission. Those guys really hammered the flagpole into the ground solidly, it didn't fall over. But it really blew like a hurricane when the LM lifted off.

If you have any doubts, you can also identify the wheeled tool cart, the Modular Equipment Transporter (MET), in the frame in that footage that shows the flag blowing so violently. The MET was only ever flown on Apollo 14.

As Kenny notes, the movie camera aboard Eagle failed to start running when Aldrin initially tried to start it prior to lift-off. He noticed it wasn't running about 10 seconds after pitchover. The Apollo 11 ascent film doesn't image the landing site at all; Eagle is already several km downrange by the time it begins.

Apollo 12's movie camera didn't run at all during its LM ascent, there is no photographic coverage of that event at all. I think we were extraordinarily lucky that the movie cameras *all* worked perfectly during the descent and landing phases. All six of the lunar landings are well documented from films taken through the LMP's window.

-the other Doug

Posted by: Ian R Apr 5 2008, 08:55 PM

Doug,

I don't own Aldrin's book 'Return To Earth', but according to the following post on the sci.space.history newsgroup, it's in that book that Buzz attributes the flag falling to the RCS hot fire test:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.space.history/msg/e7dc973bbfc9d772

Speaking of the hot fire tests, Al Bean filmed the effects of the Apollo 12 thruster test on the lunar surface with the DAC. Although the footage is very grainy and out-of-focus, it's nonetheless quite interesting to watch.

Ian.

Posted by: Ian R Apr 5 2008, 09:07 PM

Speaking of the Apollo 11 ascent film...

Upon reviewing the Apollo 11 DAC footage on the wonderful Spacecraft Films boxed set, I discovered something rather interesting about the
lunar ascent sequence.

As we all know, Aldrin was late in starting the camera, so both the moment of liftoff and the subsequent ascent stage pitch-over are
sadly absent from the footage. However, in comparing the first properly exposed frame of the ascent film with a Lunar Orbiter
photograph of the landing site, I realised that the northern-most portion of Tranquility Base is visible, with the descent stage
frustratingly just out of view, hidden behind the hull of the spacecraft.

Here is the photograph of the Apollo 11 landing site taken by Lunar Orbiter V:

http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a11landingsitemy1.jpg

The green 'X' indicates the location where Eagle landed. Just to the south-west is the double-crater that was visible out of Neil's
window. To the east is the small crater that Neil visited during the EVA ('East Crater').

Now compare the Lunar Orbiter view to the first properly exposed frame of the Apollo 11 ascent DAC footage, rotated so that North is
up:

http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dacliftoffrc0.jpg

The large, shallow crater to the left, and the smaller, sharper craters that it contains, are the most obvious features that link
these two views. The green 'X' this time indicates the location of the descent stage. Some of the craters in this DAC view may be
visible in the photographs that Buzz shot out of his window prior to and after the EVA.

In conclusion, it appears that the sequence camera was activated right after pitch-over, far earlier than I had previously assumed.

Ian.

Posted by: kenny Apr 5 2008, 10:38 PM

Very nice piece of work, Ian, comparing those 2 images. If anything I'd say your green cross on the lift-off frame should be even futher north and closer to the black edge of the window. That would make the lightest area of soil color, just above the green cross, correspond to the top left corner of the lighter area visible in the Kaguya photo - light because it is disturbed either by astronaut activity or LM ascent engine blast.

Regarding Aldrin's "Return to Earth", I have it here, and page 240 (Random House, Book Club Edition, 1973) says of the lift-off:

"There was no time to sightsee. I was concentrating intently on the computers, and Neil was studying the attitude indicator, but I looked up long enough to see the flag fall over. Seconds after lift-off, the LM pitched forward..."

Posted by: edstrick Apr 6 2008, 05:10 AM

"...There is no view of the flag in any post-ignition scene...."
etc.

That answers that.
Amazing how media conflation of events re-writes memory of what one saw live.

When we image the landing site from orbit with sub-meter resolution (color may be needed to spot the red... will that color survive this long?> or a micro rover <one or more of the proposed commercial or contest-proze missions>, we'll see where the flag ended up.

I've wondered for a while about the discrepancy between the video of the film and what Aldrin has said. This explanes the conflict neatly.

Posted by: ilbasso Apr 7 2008, 02:26 AM

From what I have read, there would be little or nothing of the flags left by now anyway. IIRC, they were commercially-available flags made of nylon. I read somewhere that the expectation was that the color would have faded from the intense UV radiation environment in less than a year and that the flags themselves would deteriorate rapidly.

Posted by: nprev Apr 7 2008, 02:38 AM

Sad, but not a big deal.

What counts are the footprints and the hardware.

Humans have been there...and we're going to go back!

Posted by: ollopa Apr 8 2008, 08:23 AM

I'm not sure what Buzz Aldrin hot-firing the LM RCS has to do with Kaguya, but (returning to topic) members might be interested to know that Kaguya is now on tour in cinemas across Ireland:

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=31872-qqqx=1.asp


Understandably, JAXA are a little annoyed to see the wonderful Prof. Honda described by the journalist as Chief Scientist for the mission, nonetheless for the Public Outreach community I think you'll agree she deserves the status of at least a minor deity.

The pictures made the evening news last night. See "Up-close look at HD space film" at:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0406/6news.html


I'm afraid the contract with JAXA is strictly restricted, so the showings are for schools groups only. I have no copies to distribute outside of the Irish Film Institute programme. Sorry, but don't even ask!

Posted by: dvandorn Apr 9 2008, 04:02 PM

Well. There seem to be a couple of different ways of looking at such things as high-definition images of the Moon.

The first one would be: "Here we have some really fantastic images. What is the best way of sharing these with a world population hungry for new vistas?"

The second one would be: "Here we have some really fantastic images. What is the best way of using them to stuff some money into our pockets?"

I hate to say it, but it seems rather obvious which of these two viewpoints JAXA has adopted... *sigh*...

-the other Doug

Posted by: Phil Stooke Apr 9 2008, 04:19 PM

An interesting point, Doug. But remember, the camera was provided by Japanese broadcaster NHK, and they are the ones calling the shots, not JAXA.

I think it's more appropriate to think of this as a harbinger of things to come in the brave new world of 'New Space' or 'Moon 2.0' . When missions are flown by entrepreneurs for profit, you'll be seeing this all the time. So get used to it!

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Apr 9 2008, 07:21 PM

Check out these new goodies from the Kaguya site:

http://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/data/jpn/tc/003/tc_003_1_l.jpg

and

http://gisstar.gsi.go.jp/selene/

Phil

Posted by: Subaru Apr 11 2008, 01:50 PM

Quote from http://www.jaxa.jp/topics/2008/04_e.html :

The moon map with Kaguya's data:
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2008/04/img/20080409_kaguya_01_j.tif (400 dpi : 11.5MB)

The moon map with ULCN 2005:
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2008/04/img/20080409_kaguya_02_j.tif (400 dpi : 6.4 MB)

And she took new pretty HDTV movies - FULL EARTH!

"Full-Earth Rise"
http://space.jaxa.jp/movie/20080411_kaguya_movie01_j.html

"Full-Earth Set"
http://space.jaxa.jp/movie/20080411_kaguya_movie02_j.html

Posted by: nprev Apr 11 2008, 05:11 PM

The Earthrise movie: Sweet.

For some reason, I think I know what NHK's network ident promo's gonna look like soon...

Heck, I can even write the tagline after the dramatic music dies down: "NHK--Bringing the world to you!"

Posted by: nop Apr 13 2008, 01:58 PM

JAXA has released 720x480 DVD-quality movies of the earth-rise and the earth-set taken in November.
http://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.html
(See the topic posted on 2008/04/09 in What's New lists)

Posted by: spatial Apr 15 2008, 03:58 PM

Hi,
Here's a comparison of a sharpened Kaguya image and the Lunar Orbiter image mosaic from the 60's.

East Crater (or Little West Crater depending on your preference) is just barely resolved and other craters of similar or slightly smaller size are sometimes resolved and sometimes not. I think what you're seeing here is a combination of the lower resolution of the posted image combined with imager noise and JPEG compression.

Overall I was surprised that the posted Kaguya image is so much lower in quality than the 40 year old NASA film-based images. Its also distorted in in width by ~10-15% (too wide) compared the NASA image. (I'm assuming the NASA image is properly rectified simply because they based maps off of it but you know what happens when you assume... )

Another interesting feature of the Kaguya image is the apparent structure within the bright area in the landing area (labeled "stuff") . This could be the above mentioned sensor noise, or it could be the accumulated effect of all the highly reflective material at the landing site.

Does anyone know if this is a full resolution image or are they holding back the really nice ones for some other purpose?

Jim

Posted by: Phil Stooke Apr 15 2008, 04:13 PM

The released Kaguya image is from the Multispectral Imager, not the Terrain Camera, so it has lower resolution than the best we will get. But nobody should be surprised about the lower detail. More detail, for the same areal coverage, requires greater downlink capacity. There is always a tradeoff between resolution and coverage. Lunar Orbiter achieved very high resolution at the cost of very limited coverage - only preselected sites were imaged at high resolution for Apollo site selection. Kaguya wants to cover a wider area but can't do that at the same resolution. LRO will only give MOC-like coverage of the Moon at very high resolution, with global coverage only at 100 m resolution. And in fact for basic geologic interpretation, unlike hazard mapping for site selection, lower resolution plus broader coverage is far superior on the Moon. The universal regolith on the Moon limits the value of high resolution imaging. The situation is different on Mars, where other processes modify the surface so much.

Phil

Posted by: Toma B May 9 2008, 03:25 PM

There are 2 new movies from Kaguya HDTV http://www3.nhk.or.jp/kaguya/archive/index.html.
Few new images too.

Anybody out there knows how to catcht that ".asx" stream or somewhere else to download it from?

Posted by: ugordan May 9 2008, 04:40 PM

Nice to see they finally started to distribute higher resolution versions of the movies. Good stuff, too bad the wide angle Earthset is sped-up 4x.

As for saving the wmv media, where there's a will, there's a way...

Posted by: bugs_ May 9 2008, 09:46 PM

Two VERY impressive videos!

I'm Unix inclined so I was glad to find the mmsclient freeware today.

Posted by: Del Palmer May 10 2008, 04:08 PM

I've captured the Kaguya stream and have placed the downloadable files here:

http://www.meridiani.co.uk/other/man_de_1m.wmv
http://www.meridiani.co.uk/other/man_de_2m.wmv

Enjoy!

Posted by: Phil Stooke May 20 2008, 01:21 PM

Check out the Apollo 15 site!

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2008/05/20080520_kaguya_j.html

Two small dark spots correspond exactly with the disturbed soil areas around the LM and ALSEP, as also seen in Apollo 15 Panoramic camera frame 9798.

Phil

Posted by: remcook May 20 2008, 01:40 PM

very cool, yet still pretty blurry. patience...patience

Posted by: elakdawalla May 20 2008, 03:56 PM

Regarding this release, I received the following message from Shin-ichi Sobue this morning.

I'm not sure what he meant by "we just activated 2 channel discssion of Apollo story about landing on the Moon" -- anybody got any guesses before I go back to him for clarification?

--Emily

Posted by: Ian R May 21 2008, 01:19 AM

This new image can also be compared to a mosaic I made a while back of the landing site using stills from the Apollo 15 ascent footage:

Posted by: nprev May 21 2008, 01:50 AM

Mmm...from context, perhaps 2 Japanese blogs?

Posted by: Phil Stooke May 21 2008, 02:27 AM

Fantastic picture, Ian - it deserves to be a LPOD.

Phil

Posted by: dvandorn May 21 2008, 04:01 AM

Amazing, Ian -- it's extremely obvious that the dark semi-circle north and northeast of the ALSEP site, visible in the Kaguya image, is formed by footprint-disturbed soil.

Apollo 15 had one of the best ascent films of all the LM launches. Not only does it give us a really good view of the descent stage from directly above, as it proceeds and the Falcon comes up to Hadley Rille, it makes a little evasive maneuver to avoid Bennett Hill and Hill 302 by swinging to the right and flying parallel to and above the rille for about 20 or 30 seconds.

Plus, the 15 ascent film vividly displays one of the major dangers of the LM launches -- the MESA blanket, a large piece of kapton foil that had covered the MESA, had been stowed under the descent stage. At launch, exhaust blew it up and out, straight west from the LM, and it skittered along the ground until it passed the ALSEP Central Station, clearing it by all of about 10 to 15 feet. Nearly wiped out the ALSEP in one swell foop. Its short but exciting journey about 400 meters out from the LM is well captured on the ascent film.

Getting back to the Kaguya image -- does it look to anyone else like you can sort of make out rover tracks, as faintly visible linear features, to the southwest of the landing site?

-the other Doug

Posted by: climber May 21 2008, 05:30 AM

I'm sure, this will be of some help: http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=5127&st=30

Posted by: remcook May 21 2008, 08:08 AM

Maybe he refers to TV channels, like a documentary?

Awesome picture Ian! I didn't know there was even such footage available.

Posted by: ugordan May 21 2008, 09:32 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mHs2bVlNdpE

Posted by: remcook May 21 2008, 09:49 AM

cool, thanks! amazing stuff. hope to see that kind of thing in my lifetime shame about the hoax people