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Posted by: icez Jan 22 2006, 04:58 PM

Is there any available information on approximating or seeing the "distance" of where NH is compared to Pluto, and Jupiter? I'd like to be able to see where it is during the next few years:)

Posted by: Rob Pinnegar Jan 22 2006, 05:52 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if this shows up on the "Solar System Simulator" in the near future. There are already tools there to simulate the view from Cassini, Ulysses, and so forth.

Posted by: MahFL Jan 25 2006, 01:00 PM

From Emily at the Planetry Society
"Another frequent topic of email this weekend was "is there a 'Where is New Horizons Now?' feature anywhere, similar to the one for MESSENGER?" I asked about this and the answer is that it is coming soon to the New Horizons website -- stay tuned."

Posted by: yaohua2000 Jan 25 2006, 02:16 PM

Hi! I have just made a page to display realtime distance of New Horizons from the Earth and Pluto. It is now text-only, but I am planning to add more functions in the future.

http://www.yaohua2000.org/cgi-bin/New%20Horizons.pl

Posted by: icez Jan 25 2006, 07:01 PM

is there any way I can see your code?

Posted by: yaohua2000 Jan 25 2006, 07:08 PM

Code here:

http://www.yaohua2000.org/New%20Horizons.pl

I know it is very slow... I'm working on an updated version.

Posted by: MahFL Jan 26 2006, 06:15 PM

test

Posted by: The Messenger Jan 26 2006, 06:35 PM

It is too bad we did not attach a ultrastable beacon to the third stage of NH. According to Emily, it is on its way out of the solar sytem as well, and a tumbling, who cares empty booster could have provided an interesting test of the Pioneer anomaly.

Posted by: Alan Stern Jan 26 2006, 06:43 PM

Actually, not so, I am sorry to say.

The Boeing third stage has all kinds of warts that make it a poor platform for doing
the PA experiment (it tumbles, it vents, it is complicated to radiation pressure model,
etc.) And beyond those tought issues, it would need it's own telecom system
and an RTG. Those would have meant removing more mass from NH than the entire
mass of our 7 experiments.

One key to NH's success in getting built was requirements control. Build and fly
something good, but recongize that better is the enemy of good enough.

-Alan

Posted by: JRehling Jan 26 2006, 07:42 PM

Alan's triumph in getting NH on its way to Pluto is a testament to the power of a little thing called "Focus". A past example was Wally Schirra's Sigma 7 flight in the Mercury program (landing right on target after significant problems with the previous three Mercury flights). A lengthy treatise on the important of this is in the biography "Boyd", detailing aviation ace and theoretician John Boyd's (mainly failed) battle to achieve superior design of the F-15 fighter, and then the F-16 once the F-15 had been more or less ruined. I hope everyone recognizes Alan's (et al) fantastic accomplishment by comparison with what might have happened with a less skillful navigation of the bureaucratic/engineering waters.

Posted by: djellison Jan 26 2006, 08:59 PM

For some missions - getting off the drawing board and onto a launch vehicle is much harder and filled with more pitfalls than the launch and flight to the target.

Doug

Posted by: punkboi Jan 26 2006, 11:41 PM

DAWN, anyone?

Posted by: Jeff7 Jan 27 2006, 01:53 AM

Or Prometheus even?

I don't think it's "if" I think it's - "When" the project will get back on track, even if under a different name. Unless we happen to stumble across easy antimatter technology before then...put bluntly, not bloody likely though for the latter.

Posted by: BPCooper Jan 27 2006, 03:03 AM

It caught my eye in Alan's perspective that it remains inside 1 Au until Jan. 29, but this is because we launched just after perihelion, which I believe I understand.

So, knowing hyperbolic orbits, NH never left Earth on a trajectory aimed inside our orbital direction, correct (as in, once it left Earth it never gets closer than Earth is to the sun at this present moment in time; only that NH is closer than the defined 1 Au distance)?

Earth is currently inside 1 Au itself (obviously), and NH is always outbound from our orbit even if within 1 Au, is what I am trying to clarify? :-) I think I am just a bit misled by hearing that it is inside 1 Au, thinking it could be closer to the Sun than Earth now, which is what is it not.

Posted by: odave Jan 27 2006, 03:32 AM

If I understand it correctly: currently, from the sun,

Earth < NH < 1AU

And after January 29:

Earth < 1AU < NH

Meaning that NH will get outside 1AU faster than we will.

Posted by: yaohua2000 Jan 27 2006, 04:11 AM

You understand it correctly, but Earth will also > 1AU some day after January 29.

[img]http://www.yaohua2000.org/cgi-bin/New%20Horizons.signature/a_is_Earth_and_b_is_Sun_and_fontsize_is_10_and_h_is_18_and_x_is_21_and_y_is_12.g
f[/img]
____________1 AU is 149597870.691 kilometers

Posted by: BPCooper Jan 27 2006, 04:22 AM

Perfect way of putting it, thanks!

Posted by: JRehling Jan 27 2006, 05:18 AM

Most people would agree that a basically Dawnlike mission would be a good idea, but the devil is in the details.

A NHish mission had been discussed and postponed for a long time, and Goldin was ostensibly trying to push for a Pluto orbiter (or nothing at all), resisting a flyby craft.

It's possible that nothing very Prometheuslike will ever make sense. A conventional-propulsion Europa orbiter will fly first.

Posted by: Bill Harris Jan 27 2006, 01:49 PM

One of the better books I've read on conducting a space research program was "At the Edge of Space" about the X-15 program by Milton Thompson, a NASA-Dryden pilot.

--Bill

Posted by: Dave Bowman Jan 30 2006, 11:25 PM

NH location is now listed on NH website:



http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/mission/whereis_nh.php

Posted by: MahFL Feb 1 2006, 02:47 AM

NH is now on the JPL Solar System Simulator

Posted by: PhilCo126 Feb 3 2006, 09:41 PM

MahFL ... it certainly is, great to 'play' with that JPL software ... just tried to see Jupiter from the NH's perspective

http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/

Posted by: alan Feb 5 2006, 09:25 PM

I agree
http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/wspace?tbody=999&vbody=-98&month=7&day=14&year=2015&hour=11&minute=45&fovmul=1&rfov=30&bfov=5&porbs=1&showsc=1

Posted by: RNeuhaus Feb 6 2006, 04:31 PM

Spectacular tool. Here you can see every moments on how the NH is approaching to Pluton and Charon.

Rodolfo

Posted by: ljk4-1 Feb 6 2006, 05:08 PM

What about Pluto's other two moons? And hey, they're showing surface features! So why do we still need to go all the way out there? It's so cold, the reading light levels are terrible, and there isn't a single Starbucks or McDonalds - yet.

Is this story true or apocryphal: Former US VP Dan Quayle was visiting JPL around the time of Voyager 2's mission to Neptune in 1989. He saw simulations of the probe's flyby of the giant planet and exclaimed how wonderful this was because now we wouldn't have to spend lots of money on actual space missions to find out what other worlds are like!

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Dan_Quayle/

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."

"For NASA, space is still a high priority." - Dan Quayle, 9/5/90

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." - Dan Quayle, 8/11/89

Posted by: punkboi Feb 6 2006, 06:37 PM

Good grief, Quayle makes George Dubya look like Einstein...

Back on topic... Can't wait for NH to pass Mars' orbit on 4/6. Don't know why, I just can't.

Posted by: BruceMoomaw Feb 6 2006, 08:49 PM

If you want a REAL horror story about scientific ignorance among politicians, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) showed up at JPL a few days after the Mars Pathfinder landing and asked if it could photograph Neil Armstrong's footprints. She is currently on the House Science Committee.

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Feb 9 2006, 10:46 PM

The PI's Perspective
Tom's Cruise
February 9, 2006
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/overview/piPerspectives/piPerspective_current.html

Posted by: MahFL Feb 10 2006, 12:09 AM

I see the data rate is 2.5 times greater than expected, I wonder who did those calculations and why they were so off ? But its great news of course.

Posted by: Alan Stern Feb 10 2006, 02:03 AM

No one was off in their calculations. We always predict conservatively, careful to
meet our specs, hopeful we will turn out better.

-Alan

Posted by: yaohua2000 Feb 15 2006, 07:32 AM

Here is a widget for Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, and you can keep tracking New Horizons's distance to Pluto right in your Dashboard.

http://magicnumber.sourceforge.net

Posted by: yaohua2000 Feb 17 2006, 12:54 AM

New Horizons is now no more than 4700 million kilometers away from Pluto.

2006-02-16 23:12:08 UTC
rg = 4 700 000 000 km
rr = 30.547 km/s
v = 43.422 km/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:New_Horizons/Magic_numbers/2006-Jan-24

Posted by: ermar Feb 21 2006, 09:11 AM

And for those of us (Java-blessed) who like the spinning ellipses, we can always scroll down to "Trajectory Simulation" at http://www.inspacepropulsion.com/teachers/fun.html and see the animations...

According to it, though, New Horizons will be the second probe to reach Pluto - after Voyager 1 did the same in 1986. Parallel-universe Voyager, anyone?

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 21 2006, 10:19 AM

Hi yaohua, did you sumbit your widget to the Apple Dashboard download site?

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/submit/

Posted by: yaohua2000 Feb 21 2006, 04:05 PM

Yes and it is here:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/status/magicnumber.html

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 21 2006, 04:16 PM

OK