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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Tech, General and Imagery _ Midnight Mars Browser

Posted by: mhoward Feb 11 2005, 01:31 PM

This thread is for discussion, questions, issues with Midnight Mars Browser. Also to announce it in case anyone missed it: http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com. Oh, and any suggestions for future enhancements too, thanks.

Posted by: TheChemist Feb 11 2005, 01:55 PM

Mike thanks for this very useful application.
It works like a charm on a WinMe machine using Java 2 (v1.5.0) from Sun.

Posted by: lyford Feb 11 2005, 04:01 PM

This is MOST awesome - !!!!

Any idea how many gigs the ENTIRE set is so far, before I try to download the whole mission and kill my laptop?

Posted by: mhoward Feb 11 2005, 04:28 PM

QUOTE (lyford @ Feb 11 2005, 04:01 PM)
Any idea how many gigs the ENTIRE set is so far, before I try to download the whole mission and kill my laptop?

TheChemist, you might be the first to test it on Java 1.5, I'm glad it works! I just haven't had time to update (and Apple doesn't support it yet, that I know of).

lyford, according to Windows Explorer on my Windows laptop, where I have a complete set, the raw images currently weigh in at 5.08 GB on disk. I believe the generated images add roughly another 2 GB but I can give you a more exact number once I've regenerated them on my system.

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 11 2005, 05:56 PM

I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4. I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey

Posted by: lyford Feb 11 2005, 06:55 PM

mhoward
I don't have 10 free gigs on my laptop - so I will have to run it at home - tried last night using OS X with Java 1.42 (methinks) and it ran fine. Only grabbed Oppy's files from 2005, but I can't wait to turn that sucka on overnight and get the whole set!

Posted by: DEChengst Feb 11 2005, 07:38 PM

I'm syncing the entire dataset at the moment rolleyes.gif

Posted by: mhoward Feb 11 2005, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 11 2005, 05:56 PM)
I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4. I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey

That's interesting... I'm guessing it must be something to do with the proxy. I'm wondering if you can get to qt.exploratorium.edu in IE and if so if there's some special settings in IE for the proxie. Maybe there's something I'd have to do in the MMB connection attempt to specify the proxy, I'll have to see what I can find out about it.

Posted by: Fred Feb 11 2005, 09:46 PM

Thanks so much mhoward for making this available!

Is there a way to download pics from just a certain day or set of days in the past? I'd like to use this on the earlier images, but I don't want to download the entire 5 gig set. If there's not a way to do this, this would be my suggestion for an improvement.

Otherwise, it's perfect biggrin.gif

Posted by: mhoward Feb 11 2005, 10:20 PM

QUOTE (Fred @ Feb 11 2005, 09:46 PM)
Thanks so much mhoward for making this available!

Is there a way to download pics from just a certain day or set of days in the past? I'd like to use this on the earlier images, but I don't want to download the entire 5 gig set. If there's not a way to do this, this would be my suggestion for an improvement.

Otherwise, it's perfect biggrin.gif

That shouldn't be too hard... I'll look into it. Thanks!

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 11 2005, 11:28 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 11 2005, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 11 2005, 05:56 PM)
I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4.  I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey

That's interesting... I'm guessing it must be something to do with the proxy. I'm wondering if you can get to qt.exploratorium.edu in IE and if so if there's some special settings in IE for the proxie. Maybe there's something I'd have to do in the MMB connection attempt to specify the proxy, I'll have to see what I can find out about it.

You don't need to tweak it for me...probably just get me in trouble at work anyway... biggrin.gif

I am interested in modifying the anaglyph setting, how did you determine the default?

Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously generated images.

It's an excellent program and I thank you deeply!

Eric P / MizarKey

Posted by: mhoward Feb 12 2005, 12:09 AM

>I am interested in modifying the anaglyph setting, how did you determine the default?

The defaults are just ones that I arrived at over a long period of looking at the images and tweaking them every now and then. I can't really see the 3D effect very well unless it's mostly behind the screen plane. With the settings I tried to put most of the image behind the screen plane for the majority of images, without going farther than I had to. Obviously it's not optimal for every image, and different settings might work better for other people. One feature I have in mind is a "Make Anaglyph..." option to make individual anaglyphs with different settings, especially for shots at very close range, like down at the rover itself.

>Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the
> settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously
>generated images.

I think you can do this: select "Advanced Image Update", uncheck "Download raw images", uncheck "Generate false-color images" but leave "Generate anaglyphs" checked, and in the generate images popup choose "force generate all images". That will overwrite the existing generated anaglyphs.

P.S. Another trick is to just delete the ones you want to replace, and select "fill in missing images" in the generate images popup menu.

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 12 2005, 04:25 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 11 2005, 04:09 PM)
>Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the
> settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously
>generated images.

I think you can do this: select "Advanced Image Update", uncheck "Download raw images", uncheck "Generate false-color images" but leave "Generate anaglyphs" checked, and in the generate images popup choose "force generate all images". That will overwrite the existing generated anaglyphs.

Your suggestion above worked perfectly.

Also, I changed the anaglyph settings to:
Hazcam 0.035
Navcam 0.06
Pancam 0.02

This improved the 3d clarity tremendously. It's so cool to watch the images as they're created. The trench by Oppy was especially cool...I may have to make a 3d animation of it - all thanks to your program.

You really have done us all a great service Michael with this program!

Eric P / MizarKey

Posted by: Nix Feb 12 2005, 02:12 PM

Thank you so much! Your efforts take away the only frustration I have with MER; the downloads..
Great software!!!

Posted by: Bubbinski Feb 12 2005, 07:19 PM

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks....I just wanted to say "hi" and say that the Midnight Mars Browser ROCKS! I've fully updated the image sets from both rovers and have enjoyed seeing the slide shows. Is there any way to save a slide show into .mov or .mpg format yet?

Bubbinski (just an ordinary guy who is a "space cadet")

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 12 2005, 10:31 PM

Another 'wish' feature...ability to specify a single day to download, not just a 'from' date...so I can pick just one day (would have made it much easier to get the March 11 Oppy images of the Deimos eclispse...)

Still, I love the program -

Eric P / MizarKey

Posted by: mhoward Feb 12 2005, 11:35 PM

> Is there any way to save a slide show into .mov or .mpg format yet?

Not yet, but it's something I've been working on occassionally, see here:
http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/rovermovies/

> Another 'wish' feature...ability to specify a single day to download, not just a 'from' date...so I can pick just one day (would have made it much easier to get the March 11 Oppy images of the Deimos eclispse...)

This'll be in v1.0.1

Mike

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 13 2005, 12:11 AM

I've attached one of the anaglyphs...apparently two non matching frames got put together...hope it helps debug...

Eric P / MizarKey

 

Posted by: mhoward Feb 13 2005, 03:40 AM

QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 13 2005, 12:11 AM)
I've attached one of the anaglyphs...apparently two non matching frames got put together...hope it helps debug...

Eric P / MizarKey

Unfortunately it's difficult to match pancam images based on only the information contained in the filenames. The method I came up with is only about 98% reliable; you'll see some strange matches sometimes if they do anything a little different with the image sequencing. I don't think there's much I can do to fix it right now. I figured ~98% correct was better than nothing.

Similar with the true-color possibility somebody asked about earlier: there's only so much you can do automatically without the full data. Anyway, I'm not that much of an imaging expert yet.

Thanks for bringing it up, though; I probably should mention that in the documentation, just so people know what to expect.

Mike

Posted by: Bubbinski Feb 13 2005, 03:50 AM

Thanks Mike for the link - I checked out the Spirit 3d drive movie and it was very nice.

Bubbinski the space cadet

Posted by: Nix Feb 13 2005, 11:04 AM

My wife is also very happy I went sleeping with her last night instead of my usual searching for interesting stuf and downloading between 23000 and 0200!
I came at the computer this morning; about 5000 images and hundreds of anaglyphs and false-color images! Very nice.. biggrin.gif laugh.gif
I find the generated images very interesting for selecting those that are good for making anaglyph pans. I use stereophotomaker in the same way; I still make the stereo images and color images in PS for the freedom it gives but this kind of software makes it easy and less time-consuming for selecting the images.
Thanks again.
Now, I am very greatful but I was wondering; would it be equally possible for adjusting your software for the Analyst website (12-bit imagery) ?
The analyst website has another interface so I can imagine it's not that simple or straightforward to do but, I don't know, I'm not a programmer.
Thank you.

Posted by: Deeman Feb 13 2005, 02:47 PM

What a great and usefull application !! Thanks for that !! Save`s a lot a time.
Been looking for something like that for quit a long time ! biggrin.gif

Posted by: mhoward Feb 13 2005, 07:50 PM

Glad it's helping out. smile.gif

> would it be equally possible for adjusting your software for the Analyst website (12-bit imagery) ?

I honestly have no idea, I haven't really looked at it enough. That only has imagery and data from earlier in the mission, right? It would be interesting to look at but it's probably not going to happen quickly for me, because of my various time constraints. (You know how it goes... work, family, etc.)

Posted by: Nix Feb 13 2005, 11:15 PM

Yes I understand. A family needs time too, I know. It may be something interesting for the future but at least now we get some sleep biggrin.gif
The data for sol 91-180 is now accessible and till 270 I think is for march.
I browsed through my 'extended' archive for the first time and thought this was a nice one..

 

Posted by: Nix Feb 13 2005, 11:33 PM

This one shows the pancam/navcam bridge and mast and the low-gain antenna mirrored in a metal part on one of the robotic arm's instruments.

 

Posted by: cIclops Feb 14 2005, 12:37 PM

mhoward thanks for your Midnight browser !

it ran sweety with no problems on my Win98SE/Java 2 (1.5.0) box


two suggestions ...

o decode the file id so the info can be presented

o release the source so we can all get to work on it :>

Posted by: Baltic Feb 14 2005, 04:26 PM

mhoward, thanks for the program! Great time saver ... and my MER pictures are well sorted for the very first time! biggrin.gif

Tom

Posted by: DEChengst Feb 14 2005, 04:31 PM

I'm having some problems with the software. It downloaded all images fine but it stalls while it's generating the anaglyphs and color images. Opportunity got up to something like sol 41 before it stalled. I cancelled the update and restarted the software. On the next try it checked but didn't download any Opportunity images as it should. However, it didn't continue to generate the anaglyphs and color images as I hoped for. It continued with Spirit and downloaded all the images fine, but again it stalled while generating the anaglyphs and color images:

CODE
2\m\386\2M160631672EFFA2K1P2957M2M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
Generating Spirit images
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\f\001
  Making anaglyph 2F126468064EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\n\001
  Making anaglyph 2N126467960EDN_an.jpg
  Making anaglyph 2N126468200EDN_an.jpg
.
.
.
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\r\001
  Making anaglyph 2R126468012EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\p\001
 Making false color image 2P126471307EFF_fcL256.jpg


It just sits there doing nothing :'(

Posted by: mhoward Feb 14 2005, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (DEChengst @ Feb 14 2005, 04:31 PM)
I'm having some problems with the software. It downloaded all images fine but it stalls while it's generating the anaglyphs and color images. Opportunity got up to something like sol 41 before it stalled. I cancelled the update and restarted the software. On the next try it checked but didn't download any Opportunity images as it should. However, it didn't continue to generate the anaglyphs and color images as I hoped for. It continued with Spirit and downloaded all the images fine, but again it stalled while generating the anaglyphs and color images:

CODE
2\m\386\2M160631672EFFA2K1P2957M2M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
Generating Spirit images
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\f\001
  Making anaglyph 2F126468064EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\n\001
  Making anaglyph 2N126467960EDN_an.jpg
  Making anaglyph 2N126468200EDN_an.jpg
.
.
.
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\r\001
  Making anaglyph 2R126468012EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\p\001
 Making false color image 2P126471307EFF_fcL256.jpg


It just sits there doing nothing :'(

I've noticed that issue recently on OSX after doing big downloads. Are you using OSX? EDIT: Never mind, obviously OSX doesn't have a C: prompt. What version of Java are you using?

For now, quite the program and bring it up again, then to update the images select "Advanced Image Update", uncheck the download checkbox, and select "Fill in missing images" from the generate images popup. That should finish generating the images that didn't get generated. sad.gif

Posted by: DEChengst Feb 14 2005, 05:24 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 14 2005, 04:37 PM)
What version of Java are you using?

Version 1.5.0 (build 1.5.0_01-b08) which is the latest version.

Posted by: alan Feb 14 2005, 05:30 PM

Thanks for that program. I now have the entire Spirit set, it took TWO DAYS on my cable modem to download it. A way to pause it inthe middle of a download woud be useful. I think the stall may be an issue with the operating system. It took nearly four hours to construct all the image with the CPU maxed out. (I checked the task manager when I noticed how slow the cursor was moving) I thnk the operating system decided it was in a continuous loop and brought it to a halt. I used the advanced image update like you suggested and it finished it without any trouble.

Posted by: mhoward Feb 14 2005, 05:57 PM

> I thnk the operating system decided it was in a continuous loop and brought it to a halt.

Hmmm. I wonder. I suspect there's some actual problem with program somewhere but it's pretty weird and elusive... I'll take another look for it when I have a chance. I've never noticed it doing daily updates, just the big ones, so I suspect it may be related to memory usage. unsure.gif

Mike

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 15 2005, 04:43 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 12 2005, 03:35 PM)
> Is there any way to save a slide show into .mov or .mpg format yet?

Not yet, but it's something I've been working on occassionally, see here:
http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/rovermovies/

> Another 'wish' feature...ability to specify a single day to download, not just a 'from' date...so I can pick just one day (would have made it much easier to get the March 11 Oppy images of the Deimos eclispse...)

This'll be in v1.0.1

Mike

two more wishes for v1.0.1...

1. ability to use dates when reforcing the 'generate fc/an images'. I wanted to try tweaking the Pancam anaglyph settings and only check the last couple of days worth, but it looked through all the folders I had to that point.

2. ability to set a greater than / less than file size, so I can skip the <10k images and go do them all at the same time at a later date (I want to be able to monitor the sun images eventually when I get all of them back to SOL 1.

Also, in the advance settings, I want to add the L0R0 to the anaglyph types (I did add it but it didn't generate any using those images). Do I need to set the 'max anaglyph types' to 2?

I bet you weren't expected such an explosion of requests!

Thanks in advance,

Eric P / MizarKey

Posted by: cIclops Feb 15 2005, 09:30 AM

i'm pleased to report that Midnight browser is still working fine after two sols on my machine. now of course i have even more suggestions:

o zoom in for higher resolution images (and or export to external viewer)

o allow the image filename to be copied (for reference)

o did i mention open sourcing the code so improvements and fixes can be
made quicker?


thanks once again for such a useful tool!

Posted by: Nix Feb 15 2005, 11:34 AM

The program is suddenly stalling on my machine.
Should I get another version of Java?
I does still work, just sometimes it doesn't and I'm getting this;


 

Posted by: mhoward Feb 15 2005, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (NIX @ Feb 15 2005, 11:34 AM)
The program is suddenly stalling on my machine.
Should I get another version of Java?
I does still work, just sometimes it doesn't and I'm getting this;

Let me take a look at that, see what could be going on. I'll get back to you maybe later today.

Posted by: mhoward Feb 15 2005, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (cIclops @ Feb 15 2005, 09:30 AM)
i'm pleased to report that Midnight browser is still working fine after two sols on my machine. now of course i have even more suggestions:

o zoom in for higher resolution images (and or export to external viewer)

o allow the image filename to be copied (for reference)

o did i mention open sourcing the code so improvements and fixes can be
made quicker?


thanks once again for such a useful tool!

> did i mention open sourcing the code so improvements and fixes can be
made quicker?

I'm thinking about that... I guess my biggest worry is it might make even more work for me. I wonder, if I were to open-source it, how many people out there would actually do anything with it?

As for the other things, those are some good suggestions, I'll fit as many into 1.0.1 as I can (probably not all of them, obviously).

Posted by: Bubbinski Feb 15 2005, 05:36 PM

I'll second the zoom in feature - also it would be good if I could export images to Paint Shop Pro or some other software at the click of a button. (That would be good if I wanted to make a panorama, for example).

Also I've been able to download the Spirit Sol 398 images but am having a devil of a time trying to make anaglyphs/color images out of them. For the last 2 days, the update is stuck on "Making false color image 2P158058596EFF_fcL247.jpg" - maybe I'll change a filter setting to avoid making 2-4-7 images for now and see if I can get the thing unstuck.

Posted by: Bubbinski Feb 15 2005, 06:13 PM

I took out the L2L4L7 filter spec and then the Midnight Mars Browser choked on an L257 image. Just sat there and did nothing. So I took a different tack.

I ran MSCONFIG (XP) and unchecked my startup items and all non-microsoft services so that nothing but the basic Windows would run in the background. Then I rebooted and chose to generate only the anaglyphs for the latest Spirit update. They generated fine. I put the L247 spec back in the preferences and then chose to generate only the color images for the latest Spirit update (fill in missing images). Lo and behold, it worked! Now I've got a stunning L456 image looking over Husband Hill and lots of other color pics.

I hope this'll help someone out.

Bubbinski (worked in tech support over the phone for 7 years plus. I think I've earned a few breaks in life smile.gif

Posted by: alan Feb 16 2005, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (Bubbinski @ Feb 15 2005, 05:36 PM)
I'll second the zoom in feature - also it would be good if I could export images to Paint Shop Pro or some other software at the click of a button. (That would be good if I wanted to make a panorama, for example).

On a PC go to my computer and follow the path to the image. You should be able to open the files with other programs or copy/paste folders if you like.

Posted by: mhoward Feb 16 2005, 12:40 AM

QUOTE (NIX @ Feb 15 2005, 11:34 AM)
The program is suddenly stalling on my machine.
Should I get another version of Java?
I does still work, just sometimes it doesn't and I'm getting this;

NIX,

From the error, I think you must have modified the setting under Edit->Preferences->Advanced for generatePancamLeftFalseColorTypes. All the false-color types need to be six characters, like L2L5L7, and there shouldn't be a comma at the end. Let me know if this helps. I'll put in some error checking to better catch this.

Mike

Posted by: Pando Feb 16 2005, 01:10 AM

I have noticed that the Exploratorium site is slower than usual in the past few days, especially today. With people now easily able to download the whole couple of gigs of images with a single mouseclick, let's all hope that they don't shut the place down since they seem to be having some bandwidth issues lately.

While the Mars Browser is uber-cool, let's all use common sense here and don't attempt to download the whole thing. Please!... The last thing we need here is the loss of access to Exploratorium.

Thank you.

Posted by: slinted Feb 16 2005, 01:56 AM

QUOTE (Pando @ Feb 16 2005, 01:10 AM)
I have noticed that the Exploratorium site is slower than usual in the past few days, especially today. With people now easily able to download the whole couple of gigs of images with a single mouseclick, let's all hope that they don't shut the place down since they seem to be having some bandwidth issues lately.

While the Mars Browser is uber-cool, let's all use common sense here and don't attempt to download the whole thing. Please!... The last thing we need here is the loss of access to Exploratorium.

Thank you.

The Exploratorium has been a tremendous resource to the enthusiast community since the begining of the missions, from the image hosting to the web-casts they've done on the Rovers. This might be a good time to mention that they are just a not-for-profit science museum that could no doubt use the support of everyone using this program, especially to pay for bandwidth.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/support/index.html

Posted by: mhoward Feb 16 2005, 02:09 AM

QUOTE (slinted @ Feb 16 2005, 01:56 AM)
QUOTE (Pando @ Feb 16 2005, 01:10 AM)
I have noticed that the Exploratorium site is slower than usual in the past few days, especially today. With people now easily able to download the whole couple of gigs of images with a single mouseclick, let's all hope that they don't shut the place down since they seem to be having some bandwidth issues lately.

While the Mars Browser is uber-cool, let's all use common sense here and don't attempt to download the whole thing. Please!... The last thing we need here is the loss of access to Exploratorium.

Thank you.

The Exploratorium has been a tremendous resource to the enthusiast community since the begining of the missions, from the image hosting to the web-casts they've done on the Rovers. This might be a good time to mention that they are just a not-for-profit science museum that could no doubt use the support of everyone using this program, especially to pay for bandwidth.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/support/index.html

Yikes, I didn't think that I might be causing problems. I'll try to email them to see if they have any issues with this. If anbody from Exploratorium follows these boards, maybe you could let me know.

Posted by: Pando Feb 16 2005, 05:25 AM

QUOTE
I'll try to email them to see if they have any issues with this.


Thanks mhoward, I think that would be great smile.gif

Just to clarify, I apologize if I appeared somewhat blunt earlier; I think the browser is just awesome and is a great resource to all of us rover fans. I do not have any information that the browser is actually creating problems for them, so if I am wrong all the better cool.gif

However experience tells me that bandwidth is a resource we must use wisely, and unless the server is heavily mirrored and load balanced, no single link can withstand the traffic this could potentially generate, especially when the browser gets into a more widespread audience with fast broadband connections and big hard drives. It would be easy for them (and very sad for us) to pull the plug to protect their infrastructure or bottom line.

Posted by: alan Feb 16 2005, 08:37 AM

If they were willing to sell the database on CD I would be interested.

Posted by: Nix Feb 16 2005, 10:56 AM

Thank you for looking that up mhoward. I just found out myself; I added ,L2L7 to the selection. There are still stall-issues but I'm guessing they might be related to my computer or the increase in traffic Exploratorium might be experiencing. Thanks to Bubbinski too; unchecking background tasks via MSCONFIG does make the program run more stable.

Posted by: Borek Feb 16 2005, 05:51 PM

It would be cool if some "bandwidth sharing" technology like BitTorrent could be used for the dissemination of the images.

Borek

Posted by: mhoward Feb 16 2005, 09:46 PM

QUOTE (Pando @ Feb 16 2005, 05:25 AM)
QUOTE
I'll try to email them to see if they have any issues with this.


Thanks mhoward, I think that would be great smile.gif

Just to clarify, I apologize if I appeared somewhat blunt earlier; I think the browser is just awesome and is a great resource to all of us rover fans. I do not have any information that the browser is actually creating problems for them, so if I am wrong all the better cool.gif

However experience tells me that bandwidth is a resource we must use wisely, and unless the server is heavily mirrored and load balanced, no single link can withstand the traffic this could potentially generate, especially when the browser gets into a more widespread audience with fast broadband connections and big hard drives. It would be easy for them (and very sad for us) to pull the plug to protect their infrastructure or bottom line.

I talked to the webmaster there via email, and there's not a problem at the moment, but we should monitor it. They will be switching to a much faster internet connection soon which may resolve any potential issues. Also he has created a new alias, nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars, instead of qt.exploratorium.edu/mars; right now they both work but nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars will allow them to shift the images to a different machine if necessary. The address will be updated in v1.0.1, which should be out just any day now.

Another thing I might do is add the ability to do big downloads from JPL, although Exploratorium is as we know superior for timely updates. I assume JPL wouldn't have any problems with bandwidth but I suppose I should contact some there, too. blink.gif

Mike

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 16 2005, 11:20 PM

Hmm.....maybe they are switching servers right now, can't access the exploratorium site sad.gif

edit: It's working OK now

Posted by: alan Feb 17 2005, 12:09 AM

#1
http://www.google.com/search?q=midnight+mars+browser&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Posted by: mhoward Feb 17 2005, 12:40 AM

QUOTE (alan @ Feb 17 2005, 12:09 AM)
#1
http://www.google.com/search?q=midnight+mars+browser&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Ha! Well that would make sense... I haven't announced it anywhere else. smile.gif (Except on the official site, but who would know about that.)

Posted by: mhoward Feb 17 2005, 01:57 AM

Hey, if there are any artists out there who feel like contributing to the project, I probably wouldn't say no to a 128x128 icon that could be used on Mac OSX, if it were cool-looking... I don't know if I'll have time to whip one up myself and my artistic skills, well, suck. Heck, if there are any takers, we could even post the entries here, and vote on the best. Just throwing out an idea.

Posted by: yuriwho Feb 17 2005, 01:06 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 17 2005, 01:57 AM)
Hey, if there are any artists out there who feel like contributing to the project, I probably wouldn't say no to a 128x128 icon that could be used on Mac OSX, if it were cool-looking... I don't know if I'll have time to whip one up myself and my artistic skills, well, suck. Heck, if there are any takers, we could even post the entries here, and vote on the best. Just throwing out an idea.

I'm not much of an artist but I created some potential icons for MMB:



I also posted these and some .icns files on http://yuriwho.blogspot.com/. Let me know if you like them or suggest minor changes in the comments on the blog.

Also, the feature request I would like to make for MMB is to be able choose between anaglyphs and cross eyed stereo 3D images.

Y

Posted by: erwan Feb 17 2005, 02:24 PM

Michael: what about something like "a tool to link Earth and Mars closer"?


Posted by: mhoward Feb 18 2005, 01:25 AM

Those are great!

If anybody else wants to try, I guess you've got until I release v1.0.1, which might be early next week. This'll primarily be a bug-fix release with just a few other enhancements. And an icon on MacOS X.

Good news is I might have those weird freezing-up problems licked, I hope, or at least I have it so it'll spit out an out of memory error (which is what I think it was) instead of just playing dumb. I'll need to do some more testing to be sure.

Mike

Posted by: Bubbinski Feb 18 2005, 04:22 PM

You're welcome Nix. One thing to point out is that Windows wasn't designed to constantly run in an MSCONFIG clean boot. I've never heard of specific issues when that's been done - all I'm saying is that once you're done with the Midnight Mars Browser it's a good idea to go back to normal startup. If there's one or two items in the startup group that consistently give problems unless you uncheck them, then try removing them through add/remove programs. If that's not possible the item may be spyware that needs to be removed by something like Spybot or Spyhunter.

Anyway, two other things on my wish list: a "play" button option for the slideshow so that I don't have to keep hitting the right arrow for something like viewing all hazcam images over the course of the mission. Also a feature for the slideshow where you can specify which set of pancam filters to use for viewing a slideshow of color images. (I know that you can specify the filters for generating the color images themselves when you download them).

Bubbinski/Space Cadet

Posted by: Nix Feb 18 2005, 05:24 PM

rolleyes.gif Yes Bubbinski I'll keep an eye on it. Everything is doing great however.
I added an icon too to give you some ideas...

 

Posted by: mhoward Feb 18 2005, 06:30 PM

> a "play" button option for the slideshow

Yep, already have that in mind. Also a configurable delay, etc.

> Also a feature for the slideshow where you can specify which set of pancam filters to use for viewing a slideshow of color images.

That image criteria dialog is going to start getting pretty full. I'll see what I can figure out, though.

Posted by: mhoward Feb 18 2005, 08:53 PM

I decided to try my hand at an icon after all. Mine is more abstract.

 

Posted by: alan Feb 18 2005, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (NIX @ Feb 18 2005, 05:24 PM)
rolleyes.gif Yes Bubbinski I'll keep an eye on it. Everything is doing great however.
I added an icon too to give you some ideas...

You had to use the picture of the sundial laugh.gif

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 18 2005, 10:38 PM

Are the servers at the exploratorium site really able to cope with the amount of data that people are downloading from them? Once again i'm unable to access the site, I just get a message saying "Document contains no Data" It did this a few days ago too. blink.gif

Posted by: mhoward Feb 18 2005, 10:48 PM

QUOTE (Sunspot @ Feb 18 2005, 10:38 PM)
Are the servers at the exploratorium site really able to cope with the amount of data that people are downloading from them? Once again i'm unable to access the site, I just get a message saying "Document contains no Data" It did this a few days ago too. blink.gif

Somehow I can't believe that there are that many people using the program, since I haven't exactly been promoting it anywhere but here. Maybe they are still upgrading their internet connection. Let's see what happens.

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 19 2005, 09:56 AM

Still nothing sad.gif

Posted by: djellison Feb 19 2005, 10:36 AM

Put it this way.

Theres about 5 gig on there.

10 people download it all - thats 50 gig

50 gig would kill THIS website instantly.

Doug

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 19 2005, 10:40 AM

It's just this minute come back online. smile.gif

Posted by: OWW Feb 19 2005, 10:51 AM

QUOTE (Sunspot @ Feb 19 2005, 10:40 AM)
It's just this minute come back online. smile.gif

No, it's still down. sad.gif

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 19 2005, 10:59 AM

The page for opportunity worked a few minutes ago.......spirit doesn't

Posted by: Sunspot Feb 19 2005, 11:43 AM

These links work:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/opportunity/

http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/spirit/



hmmm....well they did for a while lol

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 19 2005, 01:42 PM

Dear Mike,
Your software has so much success that it put the "Qt" server down... for more than one day now !
Anyway, all my congratulations for this nice work of yours !

Posted by: mhoward Feb 19 2005, 02:20 PM

I know I mentioned this a few posts back, but I emailed the webmaster, he's aware of the program and even supportive. I presume he'll let me know if there is a problem. As far as I can see, the site is back up.

Edit: if the site is not back up for you, my guess is it's because they changed something with their internet address and the change is taking a while to propagate. It happens. We already new they were upgrading their internet connection.

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 19 2005, 06:46 PM

Dear Mike,

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/

just tested a few seconds ago at 07:45 pm ECT is still out of reach !

Could you, please, provide us with their another web address and/or their new one provided to you by their Webmaster ?
Many thanks in advance !

Posted by: lyford Feb 19 2005, 09:12 PM

QUOTE (vikingmars @ Feb 19 2005, 10:46 AM)
Dear Mike,

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/

just tested a few seconds ago at 07:45 pm ECT is still out of reach !

Could you, please, provide us with their another web address and/or their new one provided to you by their Webmaster ?
Many thanks in advance !

It works for me on the west coast with PacBell as my ISP...

This may depend on who is your internet service provider - their DNS machines might not have the new info online yet....try clearing all caches, etc as well.

try:

http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars

Posted by: djellison Feb 19 2005, 09:30 PM

Neither work here in the UK via Zen or Plusnet

Doug

Posted by: DEChengst Feb 19 2005, 09:34 PM

http://207.7.139.5/mars/opportunity/
http://207.7.139.5/mars/spirit/

Posted by: djellison Feb 19 2005, 09:48 PM

Thanks for saving my DNS from working for a living smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: lyford Feb 20 2005, 01:20 AM

QUOTE (DEChengst @ Feb 19 2005, 01:34 PM)
http://207.7.139.5/mars/opportunity/
http://207.7.139.5/mars/spirit/

I apologize for not passing these on myself - it would have been the next logical thing for me to do - unsure.gif

Didn't want to seem like I was gloating about getting through... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 20 2005, 09:01 AM

pancam.gif The server "Index of Mars" was back this morning (at 07:00 am ECT) at all Web addresses listed above (including the old one) !

Posted by: cIclops Feb 21 2005, 08:32 AM

Bug report

After downloading images and with the browser sitting idle in slideshow mode, it uses almost all the CPU - seems like some loop. Restarting the browser in slideshow mode does not have this problem.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but a quick search of the topic didn't show it.

Version 1.0
Java 2 1.5.0.10
Win98SE

Posted by: mhoward Feb 21 2005, 12:23 PM

QUOTE (cIclops @ Feb 21 2005, 08:32 AM)
Bug report

After downloading images and with the browser sitting idle in slideshow mode, it uses almost all the CPU - seems like some loop. Restarting the browser in slideshow mode does not have this problem.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but a quick search of the topic didn't show it.

Version 1.0
Java 2 1.5.0.10
Win98SE

Yes, sounds similar to other problems that have been reported. I think this this has been fixed in the upcoming version.

Posted by: volcanopele Feb 22 2005, 09:40 PM

Wow, this program is great for casual Mars Rover observers. I mostly work on Titan and the Saturnian system and have no time to make anaglyphs and color images from the Rover images. This is a great way to automate this so that people who don't have to the time can enjoy the experience.


Thanks!!

Posted by: mhoward Feb 22 2005, 10:41 PM

Thanks volcanopele, it was certainly the casual observers (such as myself) that I had in mind. Maybe someday there'll be a mission that returns as much imagery from Titan as we're currently getting from Mars; that would be something else. What a strange place!

Posted by: mhoward Feb 23 2005, 12:18 AM

Version 1.0.1 is now up. http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: mhoward Feb 23 2005, 12:48 AM

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention: yuriwho wins the icon contest, since his uses transparency. His icon is used in the OSX version now. Thanks, yuriwho!

Posted by: CosmicRocker Feb 23 2005, 05:56 AM

I just downloaded and used 1.0.1, and it has many of the features I was hoping for. Thanks, and congratulations. I didn't really have any problems with 1.0, but I didn't try to download the entire image set, just a few hundred megs. One of these days I'll take the laptop to work and grab the whole set.

I can't wait for 1.1. I am happy to read that you are already working on some of the other things at the top of my wish list. smile.gif

I am still downloading the images directly to a thumb drive via the fast connection at work, and then copying the directories to my machine at home. That is so nice.

I know I should invest the time saved on my wife and family, but now I find myself engrossed with Cassini and other missions. Is that a mistake? unsure.gif

Posted by: Bubbinski Feb 23 2005, 08:12 AM

I've just downloaded the new version and I'm enjoying the new slideshow features. Thanks a lot!

Bubbinski (thinking what if there were a Midnight Saturn/Titan browser as well...Whoo hoo!)

Posted by: cIclops Feb 23 2005, 09:51 AM

1.0.1 is working well here with Java 2 1.5.0.10 and Win98SE. no sign of the looping and the new clipboard and run features are really helpful. thanks!

Posted by: erwan Feb 23 2005, 11:39 AM

Dowloaded MidnightMarsBrowser1.0.1, works fine, can choose the last day of the update!
Thanks a lot Michael.

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 23 2005, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 11 2005, 03:28 PM)
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 11 2005, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 11 2005, 05:56 PM)
I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4.  I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey

That's interesting... I'm guessing it must be something to do with the proxy. I'm wondering if you can get to qt.exploratorium.edu in IE and if so if there's some special settings in IE for the proxie. Maybe there's something I'd have to do in the MMB connection attempt to specify the proxy, I'll have to see what I can find out about it.

You don't need to tweak it for me...probably just get me in trouble at work anyway... biggrin.gif

I am interested in modifying the anaglyph setting, how did you determine the default?

Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously generated images.

It's an excellent program and I thank you deeply!

Eric P / MizarKey

I changed my mind...if you can look into adding a proxy access I would much appreciate it.

My office uses Novell Border Manager and we use our Network sign on id with a different password to access the internet. I sign on before attempting to access the midnight browser app, but it can't get past the proxy for some reason.
When I update the AdAware program I have to set the proxy information each time within AdAware.

Great program though, I have been successful using it at home.

Posted by: Nix Feb 23 2005, 06:37 PM

Thank you so much. Just installed it, it's downloading missing Oppy images right now...
Slideshow features are great work too!

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 24 2005, 06:43 AM

After much experimenting (thanks to the improvements in v1.0.1) I've found these settings work well for the anaglyphs:



However, looking at it now, I should change the order of the generate color to have the L4L5L6 combination as the first choice...

If you find better settings for the anaglyphs, let me know...pancam at 0% gives best depth of field (though nothing really helps the anaglyphs of the sundial...)

Posted by: mhoward Feb 24 2005, 01:29 PM

>>However, looking at it now, I should change the order of the generate color to have the L4L5L6 combination as the first choice...

I agree; in 1.0.1 I changed the generatePancamLeftFalseColorTypes default to this:

L4L5L6,L4L5L7,L3L5L6,L3L5L7,L2L5L6,L2L5L7,L2L4L6,L2L4L7

But it doesn't automatically take affect for people who are upgrading, your old settings stay around. So you might want to make this change manually.

Posted by: MahFL Feb 25 2005, 12:09 AM

Midnight Mars Browser is stalling with a "Java Heap Space" error. Win2k, sp4. Java 1.5.0. Does this after downloading quite a few images.

pancam.gif

Posted by: mhoward Feb 25 2005, 05:37 PM

MizarKey, I'm trying those anaglyph settings now, they seem to work pretty well on the whole. I may even switch to those for the defaults.

MahFL, I've been hearing scattered reports of out of memory problems on long downloads, I'll have to look into it some more. At least we're getting an error message now (before it would have just hung).

Posted by: MizarKey Feb 26 2005, 06:26 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 25 2005, 09:37 AM)
MizarKey, I'm trying those anaglyph settings now, they seem to work pretty well on the whole. I may even switch to those for the defaults.

MahFL, I've been hearing scattered reports of out of memory problems on long downloads, I'll have to look into it some more. At least we're getting an error message now (before it would have just hung).

Is it possible to allow a negative number for the Pancam Anaglyph setting? I tried to use -0.03 but it said the number had to be between 1 and 0. I think it could benefit from being less than 0.0, though 0.0 does ok for 'long' views, anything close to the rover is still not great...maybe for the next version, if it is possible at all.

Thanks,

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 02:39 AM

Version 1.0.2 adds the abillity to update images from the JPL site, and hopefully fixes the remaining out-of-memory errors.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

I'd appreciate it if some of you folks who were having out of memory problems would let me know if this works for you now.

Posted by: alan Mar 1 2005, 03:59 AM

Thanks a lot! Excellent timing, I was starting to check exploratrium every hour like some addict blink.gif
I thought I was going to have to download files one at a time from JPL.

Posted by: alan Mar 1 2005, 04:10 AM

bug report: It checked for forward hazcam images on sol 410, didn't find any, moved onto the next sol, missing the pancam shots for that day.

I downloaded them one at a time and was wondering why it didn't turn them into anaglyphs until I noticed they were L2 R2: add ,L2R2 to anaglyph types.

Posted by: Sunspot Mar 1 2005, 11:14 AM

I hope people will be sensible when downloading data from the JPL RAW website.... it may be just a coincedence but i've had lots of problems accessing exploratorium since users started downloading massive amounts of data - and now the site is no longer updating at all. smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 12:51 PM

QUOTE (alan @ Mar 1 2005, 04:10 AM)
bug report: It checked for forward hazcam images on sol 410, didn't find any, moved onto the next sol, missing the pancam shots for that day.

I downloaded them one at a time and was wondering why it didn't turn them into anaglyphs until I noticed they were L2 R2: add ,L2R2 to anaglyph types.

Regarding the bug report, are you sure it didn't download them? The "Update Latest Images from JPL" option downloads things in kind of a goofy order (by camera, and backwards by sol), because it's actually scanning the main page for the rover and looking for sols marked *NEW*.

Regarding the L2R2, I noticed that, it's on my list of "Things to Get To". Fortunately you can fix it yourself, just be sure to put it after L7R1.

Mike

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 12:59 PM

QUOTE (Sunspot @ Mar 1 2005, 11:14 AM)
I hope people will be sensible when downloading data from the JPL RAW website.... it may be just a coincedence but i've had lots of problems accessing exploratorium since users started downloading massive amounts of data - and now the site is no longer updating at all. smile.gif

I agree with people using common sense, and I put the download from JPL feature is there mainly so Exploratorium doesn't get too overwhelmed if this program ever becomes popular for some reason. Without taking anything away from the great job Exploratorium is doing, however, (donate, donate, donate), I've noticed this kind of outage several times before, long before MMB ever arrived on the scene.

On a related note, I'm trying to contact JPL at the outreach address just to let them know the program is out there, but if anybody knows a better contact (or perhaps *is* a better contact) feel free to contact me at midnightmarsbrowser@mac.com

Mike

Posted by: cIclops Mar 1 2005, 01:42 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 1 2005, 12:51 PM)
Regarding the L2R2, I noticed that, it's on my list of "Things to Get To". Fortunately you can fix it yourself, just be sure to put it after L7R1.

Now i'm confused, could you let us know the recommended parameters,
i have these values for the preferences:

0.035
0.06
0.0
L4L5L6,L4L5L7,L3L5L6,L3L5L7,L2L5L6,L2L5L7,L2L4L6,L2L4L7
1
R7R5R1,R7R6R1,R7R2R1,R7R5R3,R7R5R3
0
L2L5L5
0
L7R1
1

--
Version 1.0.2
Java 2 1.5.0.10
Win98SE

Posted by: alan Mar 1 2005, 02:22 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 1 2005, 12:51 PM)
QUOTE (alan @ Mar 1 2005, 04:10 AM)
bug report: It checked for forward hazcam images on sol 410, didn't find any, moved onto the next sol, missing the pancam shots for that day.

I downloaded them one at a time and was wondering why it didn't turn them into anaglyphs until I noticed they were L2 R2: add ,L2R2 to anaglyph types.

Regarding the bug report, are you sure it didn't download them? The "Update Latest Images from JPL" option downloads things in kind of a goofy order (by camera, and backwards by sol), because it's actually scanning the main page for the rover and looking for sols marked *NEW*.

Regarding the L2R2, I noticed that, it's on my list of "Things to Get To". Fortunately you can fix it yourself, just be sure to put it after L7R1.

Mike

OK the update latesst images from JPL option downloads them. I had used the advanced update from JPL option, I got java.io.FileNotfoundException:http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/all/spirit_f410text.html;terminating. after which it went onto the next day

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 03:11 PM

QUOTE (cIclops @ Mar 1 2005, 01:42 PM)
QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 1 2005, 12:51 PM)
Regarding the L2R2, I noticed that, it's on my list of "Things to Get To". Fortunately you can fix it yourself, just be sure to put it after L7R1.

Now i'm confused, could you let us know the recommended parameters,
i have these values for the preferences:

0.035
0.06
0.0
L4L5L6,L4L5L7,L3L5L6,L3L5L7,L2L5L6,L2L5L7,L2L4L6,L2L4L7
1
R7R5R1,R7R6R1,R7R2R1,R7R5R3,R7R5R3
0
L2L5L5
0
L7R1
1

--
Version 1.0.2
Java 2 1.5.0.10
Win98SE

That all looks good, the only difference would be to change the generatePancamAnaglyphsType from L7R1 to L7R1,L2R2 to pick up the latest anaglyph pairs from Spirit, which happen to be L2R2. You want to make sure you put L2R2 *after* L7R1 because L7R1 is a better choice generally. The generatePancamAnaglyphsTypeMax=1 setting means that only the first matching anaglyph type will be used, but if you put L2R2 first the program would generate a bunch of new L2R2 which already had L7R1s generated, because it doesn't delete any existing generated images. You wouldn't really want that, generally, so just leave generatePancamAnaglyphsTypeMax set to 1 and change generatePancamAnaglyphsType to L7R1,L2R2. This change will probably be made automatically in the next release, if you don't want to bother with it that's fine.

Does that make any sense? I promise I'll document this stuff some day...

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (alan @ Mar 1 2005, 02:22 PM)
OK the update latesst images from JPL option downloads them. I had used the advanced update from JPL option, I got java.io.FileNotfoundException:http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/all/spirit_f410text.html;terminating. after which it went onto the next day

The java.io.FileNotfoundException is actually okay, that file really doesn't exist and it's not supposed to (assuming there are no forward hazcam images for that sol). I knew I should have changed the message to something more friendly, as it would cause confusion, I just didn't get to it. Apologies; I'll fix it in the next one.

Posted by: volcanopele Mar 1 2005, 05:05 PM

hmm, I am not able to run this new version on UNIX/Solaris. It keeps asking me to run a file called MidnightMarsBrowser.bat. I tried the command in it, but that didn't seem to work either. Previous versions of MMB worked just fine.

Posted by: lyford Mar 1 2005, 05:07 PM

Just thanking you and letting you know I have no problems on my iBook G4, running OS 10.3.8.
Just need a bigger hard drive - curse you!
Getting from JPL now instead of Exploratorium.... cool.gif

Posted by: alan Mar 1 2005, 05:10 PM

I guess I wasn't specific about what happened. When I used the advanced update from JPL selecting 410 to 411 it generated the error message for the forward hazcam images that didn't exist on 410 then went onto 411 without looking for the other cameras on 410. Its not a problem with the regular update but I assumed that would miss images if you don't update it for a few days.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 05:33 PM

QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 1 2005, 05:05 PM)
hmm, I am not able to run this new version on UNIX/Solaris. It keeps asking me to run a file called MidnightMarsBrowser.bat. I tried the command in it, but that didn't seem to work either. Previous versions of MMB worked just fine.

Are you using the command from the .bat file (more or less)?

java -Xms64m -Xmx128m -cp MidnightMarsBrowser.jar midnightmarsbrowser.Main

make sure you don't use the -jar option anymore and you specify midnightmarsbrowser.Main for the main class.

I will include a .sh file in the next one if that's helpful; I was going to have it but figured it would confuse the Windows folks sad.gif

Posted by: volcanopele Mar 1 2005, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 1 2005, 10:33 AM)
QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 1 2005, 05:05 PM)
hmm, I am not able to run this new version on UNIX/Solaris.  It keeps asking me to run a file called MidnightMarsBrowser.bat.  I tried the command in it, but that didn't seem to work either.  Previous versions of MMB worked just fine.

Are you using the command from the .bat file (more or less)?

java -Xms64m -Xmx128m -cp MidnightMarsBrowser.jar midnightmarsbrowser.Main

make sure you don't use the -jar option anymore and you specify midnightmarsbrowser.Main for the main class.

I will include a .sh file in the next one if that's helpful; I was going to have it but figured it would confuse the Windows folks sad.gif

okay, that worked, thanks. Not sure why it wasn't working before.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 05:39 PM

QUOTE (alan @ Mar 1 2005, 05:10 PM)
I guess I wasn't specific about what happened. When I used the advanced update from JPL selecting 410 to 411 it generated the error message for the forward hazcam images that didn't exist on 410 then went onto 411 without looking for the other cameras on 410. Its not a problem with the regular update but I assumed that would miss images if you don't update it for a few days.

It's possible there's a real issue there, I will go back and look at it tonight. Darn, I hate issues. blink.gif

You are correct about the auto update from JPL not being guaranteed to pick up everything if you don't update for a few days, that's just the rules of the road as far as I can tell. Exploratorium is nicer that way.

Another thing that people will notice is that the last modified dates on the files from JPL and Exploratorium don't match, so you will get some second downloads when you go back and forth between the two. Not much I can do about that part, as far as I can tell.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 1 2005, 11:40 PM

QUOTE (alan @ Mar 1 2005, 05:10 PM)
I guess I wasn't specific about what happened. When I used the advanced update from JPL selecting 410 to 411 it generated the error message for the forward hazcam images that didn't exist on 410 then went onto 411 without looking for the other cameras on 410. Its not a problem with the regular update but I assumed that would miss images if you don't update it for a few days.

Yikes, you are correct. I made a really stupid change just before releasing the new version, and it didn't work out too well. Guess I've been burning the midnight oil too much. I'll have to release version 1.0.3 tonight to fix this; in the meantime people should hold back from using the "Advanced Image Update from JPL..." option since it doesn't pick up all the raw images.

Thanks Alan, I owe you one.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 2 2005, 12:58 AM

Okay, version 1.0.3 is posted and fixes the problem Alan noted, where the "Advanced Image Update from JPL" feature wasn't downloading all the raw images. If you downloaded 1.0.2 you should get this new version, and redo any updates you used using this feature (it won't re-download any images you've already downloaded, just the ones it missed).

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: dot.dk Mar 2 2005, 06:22 AM

I'm just curious. What's the size of ALL raw images?

Just started updating from the beginning. Gonna take a while! ohmy.gif smile.gif

Posted by: Nix Mar 2 2005, 07:04 AM

It's about 5 Gb according to some estimates. I think it's a bit more but not that much.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 2 2005, 03:05 PM

I think it would be a good idea to download it in chunks (say 30 sols at a time), as opposed to going for the whole thing at once, if you're going to do that. It's a lot of download.

Also, make sure you're willing to make this commitment to keeping 5+ Gigs of MER images on your harddrive; you don't want to download it just to get rid of it, then download it again... that would be a waste. As various people have said, we need to use common sense here.

Also, MMB adds a few (2 or 3?) gigabytes of generated images, if you're generating images. But at least you can always ditch those and recreate them later, without hitting the network.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 8 2005, 01:33 AM

Version 1.0.4 is up: fixes several small but annoying bugs, and adds one tiny but important feature.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: MizarKey Mar 8 2005, 06:53 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 7 2005, 05:33 PM)
Version 1.0.4 is up: fixes several small but annoying bugs, and adds one tiny but important feature.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

From the MMB blogsite: <Changed the default settings for anaglyph generation: generatePancamAnaglyphTypes changes from L7R1 to L7R1,L2R2>


I had set this on my system but many of the L2R2 didn't look good due to the vast difference of the wavelengths so I stopped using it. I do use L0R0,L7R1 though.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 8 2005, 07:35 PM

QUOTE (MizarKey @ Mar 8 2005, 06:53 PM)
From the MMB blogsite: <Changed the default settings for anaglyph generation: generatePancamAnaglyphTypes changes from L7R1 to L7R1,L2R2>


I had set this on my system but many of the L2R2 didn't look good due to the vast difference of the wavelengths so I stopped using it. I do use L0R0,L7R1 though.

Hmm, I'll have to look at that again. I hadn't noticed a problem but I've been doing more coding than looking.

I don't think adding L0R0 will do anything, by the way: there are just filters 1 through 8 for Pancam. L0R0 is assumed for the other cameras, since there aren't any other options there.

Posted by: slinted Mar 8 2005, 10:42 PM

Space Daily seems to like Midnight Mars Browser, they're running color from it with their recent Spirit update.

http://www.marsdaily.com/news/mars-mers-05x.html

Posted by: cIclops Mar 11 2005, 01:01 PM

The standard settings work fine for creating 3D landscapes but not for close objects, are there parameters that will generate better anaglyphs for close up features?

Posted by: mhoward Mar 11 2005, 01:29 PM

QUOTE (cIclops @ Mar 11 2005, 01:01 PM)
The standard settings work fine for creating 3D landscapes but not for close objects, are there parameters that will generate better anaglyphs for close up features?

I'm planning on adding a feature where you can generate anaglyphs 'on the fly' with whatever settings you like, but I've got a lot of other stuff to add first. Maybe others can answer with what settings they use. The pancam images, with the shift percentage set to 0, handles objects about as close as it's going to get until I rewrite the code some. (Edit: Actually I think it's the other way around, but somebody wanted the ability to shift pancam images the other way... sorry, it's early, and I swore off coffee. I might bump up the priority of this 'generate anaglyph' feature a little bit, though, since I'd like to have it myself.)

Posted by: wyogold Mar 14 2005, 09:12 AM

thanks tons and tons for the program this is sooo cool.
Wish i had found it sooner smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Mar 14 2005, 11:41 AM

QUOTE (wyogold @ Mar 14 2005, 09:12 AM)
thanks tons and tons for the program this is sooo cool.
Wish i had found it sooner smile.gif

I wish I'd written it sooner. It's only been out for about a month. smile.gif

Mike

Posted by: djellison Mar 14 2005, 01:53 PM

Have you thought of having it download MI Images - and make pseudo-colour MI images from the orange MI cover filter?

Doug

Posted by: mhoward Mar 14 2005, 03:18 PM

QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 14 2005, 01:53 PM)
Have you thought of having it download MI Images - and make pseudo-colour MI images from the orange MI cover filter?

Doug

Thought about it... I haven't checked yet to see how well that would work automatically. Anyway when I get around to adding the manual image generation options, I'd like to support making color micro images, and also, especially, stereo micro images. (Plus I have some other ideas how to do it, but we'll see how far we get.)

Mike

Posted by: mhoward Mar 17 2005, 12:15 PM

Not that I want to start a conflagration here, but I'm interested in people's opinions on the following. One feature I'd very much like to add in the not-too-distant future is a "Sol Info" window which would show the text description of what happened on the Sol that you are currently looking at in Slideshow mode. This information would ideally be copied and pasted from the JPL writeups describing each sol. Are there any feelings on the legalities of that, in view of http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?showtopic=762&st=165&#entry6910? Is giving credit to JPL in the description enough?

Posted by: erwan Mar 17 2005, 01:09 PM

MHoward: I don't know much about legality in that matter, but maybe a convenient solution is, instead of copying/pasting the JPL's sol info text, to make MMB displaying a clickable link toward the JPL Sol info page?

Posted by: mhoward Mar 17 2005, 03:37 PM

QUOTE (erwan @ Mar 17 2005, 01:09 PM)
MHoward: I don't know much about legality in that matter, but maybe a convenient solution is, instead of copying/pasting the JPL's sol info text, to make MMB displaying a clickable link toward the JPL Sol info page?

I might have to fall back on that, if I can figure out how to do it. I think it's less effective in some ways than what I have in mind, though.

Posted by: cIclops Mar 17 2005, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 17 2005, 12:15 PM)
Not that I want to start a conflagration here, but I'm interested in people's opinions on the following. One feature I'd very much like to add in the not-too-distant future is a "Sol Info" window which would show the text description of what happened on the Sol that you are currently looking at in Slideshow mode. This information would ideally be copied and pasted from the JPL writeups describing each sol. Are there any feelings on the legalities of that, in view of http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?showtopic=762&st=165&#entry6910? Is giving credit to JPL in the description enough?

A great idea, i'm still hoping you can display the image data encoded in the file name ... filter, site, date time etc etc ... nothing fancy, a transparent overlay will do smile.gif

Publish, credit and be dammed!

Posted by: MizarKey Mar 18 2005, 05:06 AM

Mike, would it be difficult to put a 'size' option, so I exclude downloading any file less than 10k. I really don't care for the fuzzy EDN images. Of course that means I'll miss out on the 'eclipse' images too...hmmm...well...all the same, if it were an option I could always go back when something comes up.

Still loving MMB!

Posted by: mhoward Mar 18 2005, 10:56 AM

QUOTE (MizarKey @ Mar 18 2005, 05:06 AM)
Mike, would it be difficult to put a 'size' option, so I exclude downloading any file less than 10k.  I really don't care for the fuzzy EDN images.  Of course that means I'll miss out on the 'eclipse' images too...hmmm...well...all the same, if it were an option I could always go back when something comes up.

I'm thinking about it... unfortunately it's not quite as easy as one might think. I don't want to eliminate them from being downloaded, just put an option in the image viewing criteria. Unfortunately the problem with that is that it takes a long time to index the images to present the slideshow (it's done up front, so the images can be sorted and everything), and checking the filesize would make it much longer. So basically yes, I want to do it, but it's gonna take a little more effort. Actually what I really want to do is to be able to select images by width and height, which has the same issues. I'm currently working on an image indexing feature that might be expanded to support this. (Sorry if this is more info than you're looking for!)

P.S. You can currently deselect EDN images from the image selection, but this can eliminate images that you'd probably like to see.

Posted by: Jeff7 Mar 20 2005, 03:01 PM

Here's someone else who's trying the MMB for the first time. Sure beats piecing together RGB images in GIMP. I can't even figure out how to accurately balance the colors in GIMP anyway.
Thank you very much for this excellent little program, and thank you to all the others with the time and know-how to make those great panoramas.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 20 2005, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (MizarKey @ Mar 18 2005, 05:06 AM)
Mike, would it be difficult to put a 'size' option, so I exclude downloading any file less than 10k. I really don't care for the fuzzy EDN images. Of course that means I'll miss out on the 'eclipse' images too...hmmm...well...all the same, if it were an option I could always go back when something comes up.

Well, it turns out that checking the filesize isn't that much of a performance penalty after all, so that will be in the next release. Checking the image width/height, unfortunately, remains out of reach for the moment, for the reasons I mentioned, but at least you can sort of weed out the smaller images using the filesize feature. The new version should be out tomorrow, if all goes well.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 21 2005, 02:31 PM

Version 1.0.5 is now up. http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: cIclops Mar 22 2005, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 21 2005, 02:31 PM)
Version 1.0.5 is now up. http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com
*

so it is!

new features too, the full screen mode is n*i*c*e

and i'm pleased to report it runs on Linux (Debian 3.1/2.6.8 kernel) with Java 2 version 5.0

Posted by: mhoward Mar 22 2005, 10:33 PM

QUOTE (cIclops @ Mar 22 2005, 08:33 PM)
new features too, the full screen mode is n*i*c*e

and i'm pleased to report it runs on Linux (Debian 3.1/2.6.8 kernel) with Java 2 version 5.0
*


Technically it's full size, not full screen. I'd like to do full screen (basically, displaying without the menu/task bars etc.) someday but it's not high on the list at the moment. Full size will have to do for now!

Glad to hear that it works on Linux, that's cool. Java is a wonderful thing (usually).

Posted by: OWW Mar 23 2005, 05:05 PM

MMB doesn't update today on Oppy. Probably because the filenames contain #'s. Can this be fixed in the program or are those wrong filenames?

Posted by: mhoward Mar 23 2005, 05:14 PM

QUOTE (ObsessedWithWorlds @ Mar 23 2005, 05:05 PM)
MMB doesn't update today on Oppy. Probably because the filenames contain #'s. Can this be fixed in the program or are those wrong filenames?
*


I'm not seeing that yet, possibly because of network issues. Is this JPL or Exploratorium? Can you copy and paste the message? Or send it to me?

If it's what I'm thinking, the filenames are invalid. Make sure you are using 1.0.4 or later though, or it will stop on the invalid filenames.

Posted by: OWW Mar 23 2005, 05:22 PM

I was using 1.04 and then I upgraded to 1.05 but it didn't matter. The links to the filenames on the Exploratorium for 2005-3-23 are like this:

1N164860169EFF51##P0..>

And point to filenames like this:

1N164860169EFF51%23%23P0703L0M1.JPG

Posted by: mhoward Mar 23 2005, 05:40 PM

QUOTE (ObsessedWithWorlds @ Mar 23 2005, 05:22 PM)
I was using 1.04 and then I upgraded to 1.05 but it didn't matter. The links to the filenames on the Exploratorium for 2005-3-23 are like this:

1N164860169EFF51##P0..>

And point to filenames like this:

1N164860169EFF51%23%23P0703L0M1.JPG
*


This appears to be a new thing... I've seen filenames with characters like that before, but never before pointing to valid pictures. The program can probably be fixed to pick those up but for the moment it won't. Here comes version 1.0.6, I guess... Thanks for pointing that out, I might have missed it.

Posted by: mhoward Mar 24 2005, 12:51 AM

Version 1.0.6 is now up and fixes the issue that ObsessedWithWorlds noted (so you will need it to download today's Oppy pictures).

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: aldo12xu Apr 17 2005, 10:18 PM

Great little program, Mike. And thanks for linking my site!

I had version 1.0 and tried to upgrade to 1.06 but I'm not sure it worked (still shows as 1.0 in file name). Do I have to erase version 1.0 first? Or is there an uninstall function?

The other thing I was wondering, how specific can I get in terms of the images I want to download. For example can I specify "download only left rear cam images from sols 100 to 120"?

Thanks,
Aldo.

Posted by: mhoward Apr 18 2005, 12:48 AM

QUOTE (aldo12xu @ Apr 17 2005, 10:18 PM)
Great little program, Mike.  And thanks for linking my site!

I had version 1.0 and tried to upgrade to 1.06 but I'm not sure it worked (still shows as 1.0 in file name).  Do I have to erase version 1.0 first?  Or is there an uninstall function?

The other thing I was wondering, how specific can I get in terms of the images I want to download.  For example can I specify "download only left rear cam images from sols 100 to 120"?

Thanks,
Aldo.
*


Aldo,

Midnight Mars Browser doesn't really install anything; all its software components are in the folder that you download and unzip. So you can just delete folder that you downloaded and replace it with the new one you download. If you have a shortcut on the desktop, you will need to delete that and make a new one. If that doesn't get you up and running, email me at midnightmarsbrowser@mac.com

The version is shown in the About box (under the Help menu of Windows).

You can specify to download sol 100 to 120 for example (that's one of the features you get for upgrading from version 1.0 smile.gif ) but you can't currently specifiy to download just one type of image. You can specify to *view* one type of image in the slideshow, though. So, for example, you could view all left rear hazcam images between sol 100 and 120 for Spirit or Opportunity. With later versions, you can even "play" the slideshow to view a nice little movie. You can even specify the delay between frames. (No rock music, though. smile.gif )

Cheers,
Mike

Posted by: mhoward Apr 18 2005, 12:55 AM

Here is a screenshot of Version 1.1, which I'm currently working on. I hope to be able to get this out within the next couple weeks.


Posted by: DEChengst Apr 18 2005, 01:26 AM

Could you add a pause button ? The generation of images pretty much destroys the performance of your computer. Even just browsing the web is slow during image generation. If you do a big update it can take quite a while to generate all images, something a user might not be willing to wait for. A pause button to halt the generation process while you're using the computer would be great to handle this situation smile.gif

Posted by: Jeff7 Apr 18 2005, 03:30 AM

QUOTE (DEChengst @ Apr 17 2005, 08:26 PM)
Could you add a pause button ? The generation of images pretty much destroys the performance of your computer. Even just browsing the web is slow during image generation. If you do a big update it can take quite a while to generate all images, something a user might not be willing to wait for. A pause button to halt the generation process while you're using the computer would be great to handle this situation smile.gif
*


Either that, or else set the program to start at a priority level below normal. That's what I do in WinXP - when the program starts, I set javaw.exe to Below Normal priority - the computer's normal then. MMB just waits its turn then to get CPU time, instead of hogging it like it does at the Normal priority setting.

Posted by: mhoward Apr 18 2005, 02:02 PM

QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Apr 18 2005, 03:30 AM)
QUOTE (DEChengst @ Apr 17 2005, 08:26 PM)
Could you add a pause button ? The generation of images pretty much destroys the performance of your computer. Even just browsing the web is slow during image generation. If you do a big update it can take quite a while to generate all images, something a user might not be willing to wait for. A pause button to halt the generation process while you're using the computer would be great to handle this situation smile.gif
*


Either that, or else set the program to start at a priority level below normal. That's what I do in WinXP - when the program starts, I set javaw.exe to Below Normal priority - the computer's normal then. MMB just waits its turn then to get CPU time, instead of hogging it like it does at the Normal priority setting.
*



I'll see what I can do; I'd rather set the priority level than add a pause button at this point. Not that there's anything wrong with a pause button, it's just that it would be a fair bit of work and there are about 12 different things I'd rather do first. Setting the priority would be a tidy solution. Can't say as I've observed this processor hogging behavior on my own machines, though, so I'm not sure how I'm going to test it yet.

Posted by: MahFL Apr 18 2005, 02:20 PM

my old pentium 2 does grind to a halt when images are being created, setting to below normal does solve this.

Posted by: mhoward Apr 18 2005, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (MahFL @ Apr 18 2005, 02:20 PM)
my old pentium 2 does grind to a halt when images are being created, setting to below normal does solve this.
*


How much RAM do your systems have? MMB is a bit of a memory hog; 512Mb is really needed for performance to be decent. Not that I'm doubting that setting the priority might be a good thing.

Posted by: wyogold Apr 18 2005, 04:16 PM

I've tried mmb on 3 machines just for fun. All slow old machines i've been given.
all are running win98 sp2
machine 1-128 ram pentium (90) i think
machine 2-256 ram amd k62
machine 3-512 ram amd k62

machine 1 runs VERY slow during dl's/updates and will not run ANYTHING when mmb is generating the color and ang images. Sometimes it hang "i think when it tries to run a process i don't know about"

maching 2 runs ok during dl's/updates but bogs down way bad durng image generation. I can still run other tasks with out hanging but it takes forever to do anything.

machine 3 runs flawlessly during dl/updates but bogs down a bit during image generation. not nearly as bad as machine 2.

anyway just a bit of testing for your info.

scott

Posted by: mhoward Apr 18 2005, 04:36 PM

Great info, Scott, thanks!

Probably I will lower the update thread priority and maybe throw in some statements to give some more time back to the process during image generation. I guess we'll see if that helps.

Posted by: Jeff7 Apr 19 2005, 10:47 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Apr 18 2005, 10:06 AM)
QUOTE (MahFL @ Apr 18 2005, 02:20 PM)
my old pentium 2 does grind to a halt when images are being created, setting to below normal does solve this.
*


How much RAM do your systems have? MMB is a bit of a memory hog; 512Mb is really needed for performance to be decent. Not that I'm doubting that setting the priority might be a good thing.
*



1.3GB of RAM here. biggrin.gif
Processor is an Athlon XP-M, running at 2.2GHz.

Posted by: OWW Apr 19 2005, 12:02 PM

This is probably a Java issue, but are there more people having problems with the MMB and anti-aliasing turned on in the graphics card control panel?
With FSAA turned on, all the characters look fuzzy and sometimes the windows are entirely blank. Turn it off and everything is fine though.

Posted by: MahFL Apr 19 2005, 03:32 PM

QUOTE
How much RAM do your systems have? MMB is a bit of a memory hog; 512Mb is really needed for performance to be decent. Not that I'm doubting that setting the priority might be a good thing.
*


It has 512 MB.

Posted by: mhoward Apr 19 2005, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (ObsessedWithWorlds @ Apr 19 2005, 12:02 PM)
This is probably a Java issue, but are there more people having problems with the MMB and anti-aliasing turned on in the graphics card control panel?
With FSAA turned on, all the characters look fuzzy and sometimes the windows are entirely blank. Turn it off and everything is fine though.
*


Sounds like a Java issue. I wonder if there's another Java program you could try. Mars24 springs to mind.

Posted by: CosmicRocker Apr 30 2005, 05:54 AM

Is this news, or am I just the last to notice? MMB is actually being advertized by the Exploratorium...?

http://www.exploratorium.edu/mars/raw_data.html

Posted by: mhoward May 2 2005, 02:25 AM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 30 2005, 05:54 AM)
Is this news, or am I just the last to notice?  MMB is actually being advertized by the Exploratorium...?

http://www.exploratorium.edu/mars/raw_data.html
*


I noticed that recently. I don't get a huge number of hits on my website, but a few are coming from that link now, which is nice.

Now when JPL links to my site, then I'll be excited wink.gif

Posted by: mhoward May 2 2005, 03:51 AM

Version 1.0.7 is now up. Highlights include a new Image Information window which shows the information based on the raw image filename, and an improved Slideshow Criteria dialog that includes options to exclude solar filter and sundial images.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: jaredGalen May 3 2005, 10:44 PM

With regards to adding the functionality for supporting internet access through a proxy. From flicking through this thread it seems you
might not have had a chance to implement it. To save you some time looking it up here it is I think.

if(useProxy)
{
String proxyURL = "proxy1.ucd.ie";
String portNumber = "8484";
System.getProperties().setProperty("http.proxyHost",proxyURL);
System.getProperties().setProperty("http.proxyPort",portNumber);
}


I do of course have an a purely selfish reason for posting this. tongue.gif
Silly proxies biggrin.gif

Thanks once again for all the hard work you have put into MMB.
jG

Posted by: mhoward May 3 2005, 11:14 PM

QUOTE (jaredGalen @ May 3 2005, 10:44 PM)
With regards to adding the functionality for supporting internet access through a proxy. From flicking through this thread it seems you
might not have had a chance to implement it. To save you some time looking it up here it is I think.

if(useProxy)
            {
                String proxyURL = "proxy1.ucd.ie";
                String portNumber = "8484";
                System.getProperties().setProperty("http.proxyHost",proxyURL);
                System.getProperties().setProperty("http.proxyPort",portNumber);
            }


I do of course have an a purely selfish reason for posting this.  tongue.gif
Silly proxies biggrin.gif

Thanks once again for all the hard work you have put into MMB.
jG
*


Well, that makes it easy enough for me! I'll put it into the next one. Thanks.

Posted by: alan May 4 2005, 12:29 AM

The first time I ran the new version it said something about regenerating images. Why does it want to do that?

Posted by: mhoward May 4 2005, 12:45 AM

QUOTE (alan @ May 4 2005, 12:29 AM)
The first time I ran the new version it said something about regenerating images. Why does it want to do that?
*


I had to change the filenames for the generated images to include some information that got lopped off before, like the command sequence number. The new image info window shows this information, and it can be used to filter images in the slideshow. That's why. It'll work without regenerating the images, sort of, but it'll work better if you regenerate them so that they have the correct new filenames.

Posted by: wyogold May 10 2005, 09:10 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Apr 18 2005, 03:06 PM)
QUOTE (MahFL @ Apr 18 2005, 02:20 PM)
my old pentium 2 does grind to a halt when images are being created, setting to below normal does solve this.
*


How much RAM do your systems have? MMB is a bit of a memory hog; 512Mb is really needed for performance to be decent. Not that I'm doubting that setting the priority might be a good thing.
*





Cool ver-.7 did the trick. When I get time I'll go back and try the older machines again.
but it works on this one which is "machine 2- 256 ram amd k62"
I'll give a better update in a few days but it is doing the initial regeneration of the images with little or no bogging down. Well done.

Posted by: mhoward May 16 2005, 01:02 PM

Version 1.0.8 is now up. New features include proxy support and a "Check for New Images" feature that quickly scans both Exploratorium and JPL for raw images that haven't been downloaded yet. This version also handles switching updates between Exploratorium and JPL without re-downloading files. A problem where a download could freeze indefinitely has been fixed.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: DEChengst May 16 2005, 04:50 PM

Nice smile.gif I have one more feature wish. If you're doing mosaics it can be hard to find all the images that belong to it. Certainly if there are a lot of frames taken at several sols. While browsing the images I want a button that shows all images that were taken at the samen location so I no longer have to pick the frames by hand smile.gif

Posted by: djellison May 16 2005, 06:59 PM

Most sensible way to do that is to group by sequence number ( P2457 etc. )

Doug

Posted by: jamescanvin May 17 2005, 05:09 AM

I don't seem to be able to download the new OSX version, it apparently does not exist.

Anyone else having the same problem?

James

Posted by: mhoward May 17 2005, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 17 2005, 05:09 AM)
I don't seem to be able to download the new OSX version, it apparently does not exist.

Anyone else having the same problem?

James
*


Whoops. It's fixed now.

Posted by: jamescanvin May 18 2005, 02:38 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ May 18 2005, 12:51 AM)
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 17 2005, 05:09 AM)
I don't seem to be able to download the new OSX version, it apparently does not exist.

Anyone else having the same problem?

James
*


Whoops. It's fixed now.
*



Thanks, much better!

Proxy support works well (although .pac support would be nice smile.gif )

I can also confirm that MMB works well on OSX 10.4 (Tiger)

James.

Posted by: mhoward May 18 2005, 03:23 AM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 18 2005, 02:38 AM)
QUOTE (mhoward @ May 18 2005, 12:51 AM)
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 17 2005, 05:09 AM)
I don't seem to be able to download the new OSX version, it apparently does not exist.

Anyone else having the same problem?

James
*


Whoops. It's fixed now.
*



Thanks, much better!

Proxy support works well (although .pac support would be nice smile.gif )

I can also confirm that MMB works well on OSX 10.4 (Tiger)

James.
*



You want me to form a Political Action Committee? Oh... Proxy Auto Configuration. Too bad, I hear the other kind of PACs make money.

FYI, folks, the download link wasn't the only mistake I made the other night. Version 1.0.9 fixes a bug in the new "Check for New Images" feature where if there were new images at JPL the "Update from JPL" button didn't work.

Posted by: mhoward May 25 2005, 05:17 AM

Midnight Mars Browser version 1.1 is now up. From the website: The main new feature for 1.1 is the Sol Information window, which shows the JPL mission update for the Martian day being viewed in the Slideshow. Also new is the ability to download metadata from the Midnight Mars Browser site; this is used to get the information to show in the Sol Information window. The "quick presets" popup menu in the Slideshow Image Criteria dialog has been reorganized to make it more useful.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.cm

Posted by: mhoward May 28 2005, 10:29 PM

Here is a screenshot of Version 1.1:

http://img99.echo.cx/my.php?image=screenshot43kd.jpg

Posted by: Charlie May 29 2005, 05:56 PM

Hi,


I have been enjoying your program immensely (when working), but often I get this error on certain images which halts the program

Reading http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/... scanning...
Reading http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2005-05-28/... scanning...
2\p\495\2P170298398ESFAAFQP2819L7M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
2\p\495\2P170298419ESFAAFQP2819R2M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
2\p\495\2P170298440ESFAAFQP2819R4M1.JPG downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out
Tried 4 times; terminating.
java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out
at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method)
at java.net.SocketInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read1(Unknown Source)
at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
at sun.net.www.MeteredStream.read(Unknown Source)
at java.io.FilterInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection$HttpInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
at java.io.BufferedInputStream.fill(Unknown Source)
at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read1(Unknown Source)
at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.updateFileFromURL(Update.java:1116)
at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.updateLocalRawFromURL(Update.java:1010)
at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.updateLocalRawFromExpScanFilenames(Update.java:748)
at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.updateLocalRawImagesFromExploratorium(Update.java:695

at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.doUpdate(Update.java:613)
at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.run(Update.java:451)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)


Then:

Java.net.socketTimeoutException:Read timed out


I'm running a PC with XP, plenty of memory, Java 5.0. MMB 1.1
It will stick on the same file for days and go no further. Any thoughts??

Thanks,
Charlie

Posted by: mhoward May 29 2005, 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Charlie @ May 29 2005, 05:56 PM)
Hi,


I have been enjoying your program immensely (when working), but often I get this error on certain images which halts the program

Reading http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/... scanning...
Reading http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2005-05-28/... scanning...
2\p\495\2P170298398ESFAAFQP2819L7M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
2\p\495\2P170298419ESFAAFQP2819R2M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
2\p\495\2P170298440ESFAAFQP2819R4M1.JPG downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out
Tried 4 times; terminating.
java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out
at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method)
[etc]

I'm running a PC with XP, plenty of memory, Java 5.0. MMB 1.1
It will stick on the same file for days and go no further. Any thoughts??

Thanks,
Charlie
*


Hmmm... Are you on a slow network connection, by any chance? My guess is it's taking longer than 45 seconds to download a particular image, and the network timeout (introduced in version 1.0.8) is currently set to 45 seconds. I hadn't figured on this being a problem, but currently, if it can't download an image within 45 seconds, it will abort and try again, up to 3 times, then it will give up. If it can't ever download the image within 45 seconds, you won't be able to get past that. I will add a preferences setting for version 1.1.1 so you can increase the network timeout time, in case it's just taking too long to download an image. Have you used a version prior to 1.0.8, and did you have the problem then?

Thanks for bringing this up.

Posted by: Charlie May 29 2005, 08:35 PM

Actually I'm on a pretty fast cable connection. I've been a user since 1.0.3 and it seems it has always been a problem. I keep hoping the next version will fix it. It does seem to have gotten better. Sometimes it will give up on an image and move on, but occasionally it still gets stuck and stops.

I wish that it would just skip a bad file after a few tries and move on to download the rest. Sounds like you have not seen this before, which has got me wondering about my configuration, but I can't think what it would be.

It seems to me that when it happens, it is on one particular image. When I restart the program and try again, it will stick on the same file again (usually from Exploritorium, I believe?). It will stay that way for a few days, then suddenly a retry will move on and either finish or stick on a different image.

I've tried manually downloading the file in question, but find that even my browser will stick on the same file.

I've copied a different image and given it the same name as the "bad" file, with hopes that it would move on. I believe this used to work in an earlier version, but now it compares the date and tries to replace the file then sticks. (Hmm, I just thought, maybe I could make a dummy file with a newer date, then it might skip it).

Right now, MMB is stuck on this image:

http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2005-05-28/2P170298440ESFAAFQP2819R4M1.JPG

When I go to that link with my browser, it starts to display the image, but about 2/3 through the download sticks.

Thanks again for your program.
Charlie

Posted by: Charlie May 29 2005, 09:55 PM

Another small clue. My Mozilla Browser and MMB sticks on this link, but Explorer doesn't:

http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/...FQP2819R4M1.JPG

Charlie

Posted by: mhoward May 29 2005, 10:05 PM

QUOTE (Charlie @ May 29 2005, 09:55 PM)
http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/...FQP2819R4M1.JPG
*


That link didn't seem to come through intact.

No, I haven't noticed any problem like this since the fix I put in for 1.0.8. Before 1.0.8, I would occassionally see the network read operation freeze indefinitely. I still wonder if increasing the new network timeout would do anything for you. Maybe maybe not. Anyway would be something to try, so I'll let you know when 1.1.1 is out.

Don't have any idea at the moment why it would work in Explorer but not Mozilla or MMB, unless there is a different proxy setting involved. Does the link work immediately in Explorer, or is there a delay?

Posted by: jamescanvin May 30 2005, 02:01 AM

Just downloaded 1.1 for OSX but it appears to be 1.0.9 inside the tar file.

James

Posted by: mhoward May 30 2005, 02:35 AM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 30 2005, 02:01 AM)
Just downloaded 1.1 for OSX but it appears to be 1.0.9 inside the tar file.
*


Looks like a packaging error on my part. Rather than repackage it I'm posting version 1.1.1, which is better anyway. I'll make sure the Mac version works...

Posted by: mhoward May 30 2005, 02:56 AM

Version 1.1.1 is now posted. Here are the new features:

- Select which cameras' images to update in Advanced Update Images.

- The new "Fast Update (new images only)" option in Advanced Update Images downloads only images that aren't present locally, so the update doesn't have to check if the image on the server is newer than the local version. This can result in a speedy update, at the cost of missing any existing images that need to be updated to a newer version.

- New image selection options in the Edit menu allow you to select individual images within the image criteria to display within a Slideshow. This will be used to support some functionality later (specifically, adjusting the anaglyph settings on a selection of images). "Limit to Selected Images" in the Navigate menu causes the Slideshow to display only the selected images within the image criteria. "Show All Images Matching Criteria" causes the Slideshow to display all images within the image criteria; selected images are indicated in the title bar with "[selected]".

Version 1.1.2 will be posted in the next few days, with any luck, and will have image import, export, and delete features.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: mhoward May 30 2005, 03:14 AM

Oh, and I added a network timeout setting in Preferences for version 1.1.1, so Charlie you could try increasing that to say 120 seconds from 60, and see if that helps.

Posted by: jamescanvin May 30 2005, 03:50 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ May 30 2005, 12:35 PM)
Looks like a packaging error on my part. Rather than repackage it I'm posting version 1.1.1, which is better anyway. I'll make sure the Mac version works...
*


Thanks, working well now. Love the sol info window, great work.

James

Posted by: Charlie May 30 2005, 05:53 AM

That link that I mentioned above has started working now. It seems to be a pattern that an image will be bad for a day or so and then suddenly start working.

Thanks for all of the updates in the new version. I think I will be able to find a work around with the new features.

Wish list thing: I prefer looking at the stereo pair images using the cross-eyed method. I can never find my red/blue glasses when I need them and they feel so goofy. Any chance you could build in a cross-eyed viewer. I have been using the "3D Viewer for Mars Images" by Robert Clemenzi. It works great, but it was designed exclusively for the JPL site. It is a bit of a hassle cutting and pasting URLs from MMB to that utility (Thanks however for providing the "Copy local file location to clipboard" feature).

Thanks again,

Charlie

Posted by: dvandorn May 30 2005, 08:52 AM

QUOTE (Charlie @ May 30 2005, 12:53 AM)
Wish list thing: I prefer looking at the stereo pair images using the cross-eyed method. I can never find my red/blue glasses when I need them and they feel so goofy. Any chance you could build in a cross-eyed viewer.
*

I would vote for this, too. I always have a lot better luck with the cross-eyed technique, and I currently don't even own a pair of red/blue glasses. (And they don't work very well when you *also* wear real, corrective glasses.) In general, the anaglyphs don't work well for me at all.

-the other Doug

Posted by: mhoward May 30 2005, 04:31 PM

QUOTE (dvandorn @ May 30 2005, 08:52 AM)
I would vote for this, too.
*


I'll take a look at doing this. I've got a few other things to finish first, but it shouldn't be too hard, maybe. The reason I haven't done it 'till now is because I've never been able to make the cross-eyed stereo pairs work for me, but viewing stereo is obviously a very individual thing.

Posted by: Nix May 31 2005, 07:32 PM

Looking at stereo parallell or cross-eyed is less forgiving for differences in rotation though than anaglyphs. huh.gif You can correct this by nudging your head slightly to the left or right but for big differences this don't work either. I think a great deal of images would be 'unviewable' if one would auto-generate stereo images. Maybe a control point detection interface as autopano to match the left and right images and rotate accordingly? blink.gif
Great new version Howard. Thanks.
Nico

Posted by: mhoward Jun 1 2005, 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Charlie @ May 30 2005, 05:53 AM)
I have been using the "3D Viewer for Mars Images" by Robert Clemenzi. It works great, but it was designed exclusively for the JPL site. It is a bit of a hassle cutting and pasting URLs from MMB to that utility (Thanks however for providing the "Copy local file location to clipboard" feature).
*


On second thought, looking at the "3D Viewer for Mars Images" by Robert Clemenzi for the first time today, it would be difficult for me to reproduce all of that functionality anytime soon. A better approach might be for you to contact the author and ask him to add a feature where it will figure out the opposite camera image when you paste in the local file location for the first image. Figuring out the opposite image is almost trivial for navcam and hazcam images, and it's not too difficult to make a good guess even for pancam images (although it's a bit more involved there, as you can see from the times when MMB guesses wrong). Anyway, that's what I'd do. It looks like a nice little application, I wish I could use it. (I still can't do that cross-eye thing... plus I usually use a Mac. smile.gif

Posted by: Trader Jun 1 2005, 01:22 AM

Charlie,

I'm having the same problems you cited -- Java exception msgs with termination and application hangups. I haven't found a solution yet either just wait hours or days and try again until it works -- switching sources (to JPL) sometimes seems to work. I've passed a copy of my msgs to mhoward by email.

When MMB works, it's great! The download problems can be anoyinging but I'm still optimistic that the "MMB Master" will make them go away.

I'm using Win98SE (with all updates) on a Pentium III 733mhz 256MB ram and a cable moden downloading at 4.5 Mb.

Posted by: alan Jun 1 2005, 01:33 AM

This is odd, everytime I close and reopen MMB version 1.1.0 it resets the number of color images generated to the defaults.

Posted by: mhoward Jun 1 2005, 01:43 AM

alan: Whoops, that's a straightforward bug. I've fixed it for the next version.

Trader: Are you getting the same errors as before? I thought I'd fixed the indefinite hangs in 1.0.8. Maybe you could send another email with whatever errors you're getting.

Posted by: Charlie Jun 1 2005, 03:41 AM

Trader,

I wonder if we are sticking on the same image? It worked fine for me today, but if it sticks on an image again, I'll post the link here so we can compare. My theory is that it is a bad image file on the server and somewhere someone eventually fixes it or it gets updated.

I haven't been able to fully try it yet, but my guess is that I should be able to create a dummy file with today’s date to replace the bad one locally and that should allow MMB to continue.

It's a drag when it happens, because sometimes I spot a file in the middle of a download that I want to look at more closely, but then when MMB sticks, the images-downloaded-slideshow is locked and when I force quit the program then the slideshow is lost. If I didn't see what sol and camera the image was from then it can be a task trying to find it again.

But I'm not complaining! MMB is still way better than than having to download each image one-by-one like I used to.

Charlie

Posted by: Trader Jun 1 2005, 02:06 PM

Michael: I just sent you an Email with an attched copy of the update "crash msgs" I get frequently on updates. I love the product and it just keeps getting better with each new version; but, this glitch is still hanging in there (at least on my system). I don't speak java but it looks like the program is pulling an "ET" and pleading for help from its home: "at sun.net.www....".

Charlie: Completely agree with "MMB is still lots better...". We can compare notes but think we should wait and see if Michael is able to make any sense of my msg log. It's very possible that we just have "odd ball" systems.

Posted by: mhoward Jun 1 2005, 11:38 PM

Version 1.1.2 is now up... adds new Image Import, Export and Delete options and attempts to fix the issue that Trader is encountering (we'll see if it works). http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: CosmicRocker Jun 2 2005, 05:33 AM

Being a dedicated dialup user who downloads images to a memory chip at work, where I have a high-speed connection, I truly appreciate this version. I imported a couple of GBs in 23,000 images tonight from 6 different directories without a hitch. This is the version I have been waiting for.

Thanks, Mike! smile.gif

P.S. I promise not to ask for anything else.

Posted by: dilo Jun 2 2005, 06:39 AM

QUOTE (NIX @ May 31 2005, 07:32 PM)
Looking at stereo parallell or cross-eyed is less forgiving for differences in rotation though than anaglyphs. huh.gif  You can correct this by nudging your head slightly to the left or right but for big differences this don't work either. I think a great deal of images would be 'unviewable' if one would auto-generate stereo images. Maybe a control point detection interface as autopano to match the left and right images and rotate accordingly? blink.gif
Great new version Howard. Thanks.
Nico
*

Thanks for MMB!!! laugh.gif
I also strongly suggest to implement both crossed/parallel stereo options, would be great! (I waste lot of time making it manually!) smile.gif
About issue on rotated images, I think it happens only for close objects, especially from PanCam, where there is also clear horizontal displacement due to strong parallax effects; as consequence, even though we try to correct rotation issue, the matching between the L/R images is poor... I don't consider this a major issue, most stereograms works very well without rotation! wink.gif

Posted by: Nix Jun 2 2005, 09:29 AM

I was talking with pancam images in my mind yes, for the other cameras rotation is less of an issue. Like dilo says, foreground features require most attention in matching the frames for comfortable stereo viewing. I wouldn't call the matching of L/R pancam poor though. When the foreground features like the outcropping we've seen lately dominates the frame the background becomes impossible to match sometimes. Horizontally you lose some fov due to the displacement but once corrected you have a large center which looks good. I know what you mean by wasting a lot of time making it. I just correct and match L/R now in PS as separate layers and save those for viewing in Stereophotomaker.
Again I was not immediately thinking of Navcam and Hazcams. Most of those images will do very well as generated stereos so it's not a major issue no. smile.gif
Nico

Posted by: Trader Jun 2 2005, 02:19 PM

Michael,

Updated to 1.1.2 yesterday. Two slick downloads thus far -- keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for a great product!!

Posted by: Tman Jun 3 2005, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Jun 2 2005, 01:38 AM)
Version 1.1.2 is now up... adds new Image Import, Export and Delete options and attempts to fix the issue that Trader is encountering (we'll see if it works). http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com
*

Thanks Michael, this new (Advanced Update Images) images import setting is exactly that what I've wished! smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Jun 4 2005, 02:14 AM

Version 1.1.3 is now up, introducing the "Export Slideshow to Movie Frames" feature, which can be fun to play with.

Posted by: Deeman Jun 5 2005, 11:18 AM

The "Export Slideshow to Movie Frames" feature is great! It spares a lot of time picking out the right frames of a panorama for example. A big thank to you Michael !
biggrin.gif

Posted by: mhoward Jun 6 2005, 02:51 PM

Bunch of movies updated http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/MidnightMarsBrowser/movies.html.

Posted by: helvick Jun 7 2005, 08:45 PM

Michael,

One "bug" of sorts that I've noticed recently. If I hit check for updates and then wander off to do some other stuff onmy machine while MMB is working the notification dialog that comes up when the update check is finished is hidden behind all of my active windows and doesn't appear as an additional javaw window. It is also a modal dialog (not sure if the same term is used for Java) so the main MMB windows are unresponsive. It's not difficult to work around, I now know just to minimise all other windows to find it but it may cause some folks to think the application has frozen.

Then again i might just be a bit thick, Outlook does the same to me regularly for exactly the same reason.

Other than that - absolutely phenomenal application mate, couldn't live without it.

Feature request - which might be very hard so no worries if you don't want to jump on it. It would be really cool if there was an analog of the MER update information pane that had a small graphic showing the position and orientation on the route maps.

Posted by: mhoward Jun 7 2005, 10:44 PM

QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 7 2005, 08:45 PM)
If I hit check for updates and then wander off to do some other stuff onmy machine while MMB is working the notification dialog that comes up when the update check is finished is hidden behind all of my active windows and doesn't appear as an additional  javaw window.
*


Yeah, I've noticed that one on Windows. I'm going to try to fix it soon, as it's pretty annoying.

Thanks,
Mike

Posted by: Charlie Jun 10 2005, 03:13 PM

I've been swimming along like a fish for the past few days (program working great), but just yesterday it started hanging on this image:

http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2005-06-09/1N171067625EDN55T0F0006L0M1.JPG

I am using 1.1.3. It is still hanging up right now. I sure wish it would just timeout on the image and move on to the next, but I get:

1\n\483\1N171067625EDN55T0F0006L0M1.JPG downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading... Exception: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out; retrying...
downloading...


Then finally a pop up and when I cancel it. the slideshow downloaded thus far disappears.

From experience, I know it will be like this for a couple of days, then it will "heal" and suddenly work. Also my browser (Mozilla) will hang on the same image, but it will eventually time out and recover.

Charlie

Posted by: mhoward Jun 11 2005, 07:05 PM

Charlie: First thing to try is going into preferences and changing the network timeout from 60 to say 120. Have you tried that already?

Posted by: mhoward Jun 11 2005, 07:08 PM

All: I am considering releasing the source for MMB on sourceforge.net under the Gnu GPL. Comments pro or con?

I am considering this partly because I am running out of steam for working on the project. Perhaps there are others who would like to contribute.

Posted by: Trader Jun 12 2005, 08:05 PM

Charley: Your error msgs. are very similar to the ones that I received from the beginning until ver 1.1.2 -- everything has been real slick (2-3 updates daily) since I updated to this ver -- have not updated to 1.1.3 since I don't need the movie feature.

Mike: Hate to see you give up control and to see you toss the program into the wind. I can certainly understand your frustration, and time concerns, and wonder (selfishly) if it would possible to bribe you to hang in there at a reduced effort (keep the program whole and functional) by tossing a few coppers your way for a "Midnight Beer", or two. Obviously I can't speak for others; but, for me, this is the only free program I use every day and it would be worth a modest contribution. Anyone else? In the long run there may be other repetitive monitor-and-download applications (profitable) for which this program could serve as a proven kernel. Power to the "Working Class"!! -- I'm retired siping the nectar (mostly fermented).

Posted by: mhoward Jun 13 2005, 01:19 AM

Well, I'll always be around to keep the thing functional (unless I get run over by a bus or join a monastery or something). Speaking of slowly adding new features, Version 1.1.4 adds a nice one suggested by dotdk:

QUOTE
Version 1.1.4 introduces the Automatic Update feature. Check the "Automatic Update" box in the main window, and the program will scan for image updates every hour automatically. You can now leave Midnight Mars Browser running on your computer while you work, and it will pop up a window when new images appear; or you can leave it running at night, and check the new images in the morning. The scan for new images happens two minutes after the hour to give the Exploratorium site time to update (which happens on the hour) so it is important your system's clock is set accurately.


http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/

Posted by: helvick Jun 14 2005, 12:45 AM

Michael,

I'd vote for releasing the source under the GPL, provided there's nothing preventing you from doing so. I have to own up to being an Open source fan though.

There's a risk of losing control of derivitives but so long as those derivitives respect the GPL well that's the point really, you still get credit and respect for your work. There is a slight risk that someone might rip it off and ignore the GPL terms in which case you might get embroiled in a fight to stop the abuse. The EFF seem quite keen to take up such cases pro bono though so that is a slight risk of having hassle but shouldn't mean you have to worry about exposing your self to legal costs if the worst was to happen.

If you are going to go the GPL route then if I were you I'd consider just releasing the source as a download and see if there was interest before setting up a Sourceforge project.

Great software though and whether you do release the source or not, thanks for letting us all use it.

Posted by: mhoward Jun 14 2005, 03:44 AM

Helvick: Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Good points.

Switching topics, version 1.1.5 is now up, featuring some improvements to the automatic update feature that I noticed I wanted when using it today.

Posted by: Charlie Jun 15 2005, 07:16 AM

Test.

Posted by: Charlie Jun 15 2005, 07:18 AM

Hi Mike,

I set the "Network Timeout" pref to 120, but it still occasionally hangs, and just takes longer before a retry. Creating a dummy file has worked a few times.

Is it possible to have a setting such that it will only attempt to download a file say, twice, and then it might give up and skip that file? Or can I create a skip file list?

The program is great, even though I have this glitch. The automatic update feature is great. Thanks!

Posted by: mhoward Jun 15 2005, 01:54 PM

It might be possible to do something like that; I'll try to look at it soon. I'm still not sure why you're having problems downloading particular files though.

Posted by: helvick Jun 15 2005, 07:31 PM

Charlie,

Are you sure the problem is with MMB and not with something else on your system or with your service provider either choking on those particular files or requests?

I've never had a hitch with any files but I have had problems like this with my local firewall and I've also had problems in the past with an Antivirus scanner that was a bit overzealous in how it chose to scan internet downloads.

Just a long shot but it's a really weird error and I'm curious, it's the sort of thing I have users call

Posted by: Charlie Jun 15 2005, 09:12 PM

helvick,

Thanks for your reply. Often, it is helpful to simply hear that someone else does not have the same problem as it allows one to focus better on the true cause. What is your system config?

I can't say that I am sure it is MMB. The downloads work about 75% of the time. But when it sticks on a particular image, it sticks on that image for a couple of days, even if I reboot and restart MMB. I have found that if I replace the "bad" file locally with a dummy .jpg file with a newer date, then MMB will skip it and merrily complete the rest of the download. Could be a bad file? Could be Java? Who knows.

I don't mean to make too big a deal of this. MMB is great and I have a work around (although cumbersome). A quicker work around would be nice. Right now I have to make a dummy file, give it the right name and put it in the right place. If no one else has this issue, then don’t mind me.

Posted by: helvick Jun 16 2005, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Charlie @ Jun 15 2005, 10:12 PM)
helvick,

Thanks for your reply. Often, it is helpful to simply hear that someone else does not have the same problem as it allows one to focus better on the true cause. What is your system config?


I'm just intrigued by the problem, can't help myself when I see a weird problem. smile.gif

For reference - I'm running on an IBM Thinkpad T41P (1.8Ghz Pentium M, 1GB RAM, 60G HDD with about 15GB free). Windows XP SP2, BlackIce "firewall", connecting via a range of sources (Home DSL, various WLAN hotspots in Ireland and in Israel and Germany as I'm travelling at the moment in Israel via Germany) running on J2RE , SE 1.4.2_08. The only time I have issues are when I'm running over a connection that requires a proxy to connect - ie at work. I assume I could now use the MMB proxy support to get around that but don't want to incur the wrath of our internet connectivity folks.

Do you have the option of using an alternative internet provider, even temporarily, just to sanity check that the problem is actually with MMB or at least on your PC and not something bizarre between your machine and the exploratorium site?

Posted by: mhoward Jun 17 2005, 03:02 PM

Version 1.1.6 fixes it so that an error downloading a single image won't terminate the download. Also I have changed anaglyph generation to eliminate the left and right borders, so the anaglyphs will be easier to put into panoramas. I guess they look nicer, too.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Charlie Jun 18 2005, 06:56 AM

Thank you Mike,

I was waiting for the problem to pop up again, but now it may never.

Thanks again.

Posted by: lyford Jun 18 2005, 08:55 PM

Thanks again for all your hard work Mike - 'tis a thing of beauty!

The folks at Seagate will prolly be thanking you as well since we all are going to need bigger hard drives to deal with all the movies and panoramas we'll be generating... tongue.gif

Posted by: mhoward Jul 5 2005, 01:14 AM

Just to keep this thread alive, there are some http://www.flickr.com/photos/36868531@N00/23636224/ of what's under development for the next release posted on the http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/. Happy fourth!

Posted by: lyford Jul 5 2005, 04:31 AM

*-gulp-*

that's.....

so....

amazinG! biggrin.gif

It's like Maestro never went away!

Posted by: Nix Jul 5 2005, 07:37 AM

ohmy.gif Very nice! A superb feature!!

Nico

Posted by: djellison Jul 5 2005, 09:29 AM

One word.

How?

ohmy.gif

smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: jamescanvin Jul 5 2005, 10:06 AM

I think ohmy.gif sums it up really!

I can't wait... smile.gif

Posted by: dot.dk Jul 5 2005, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 5 2005, 09:29 AM)
One word.

How?

ohmy.gif

smile.gif

Doug
*


Another word. When? smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Jul 5 2005, 02:03 PM

To answer how: It turns out it's not as difficult as I thought, using Java3D. (I've always wanted to do this, but I assumed it was basically impossible.) I've extracted the camera pointing information from the headers of the PDS IMG files that are available (Sol 1-270) and used the information to create pan definition files (my own "mmb" format, which I'm still refining). We should be able to create "best guess" pan definitions for more recent sols for which the data hasn't been released yet.

To answer when: I hope to have a first version out within a couple weeks so you can play with it, but no promises. It's working pretty well in development but I need to finalize some details and add some polish before it's ready to release into the wild.

Posted by: djellison Jul 5 2005, 02:23 PM

Ahh - from the IMG's..I was thinking "huh - how'd he get pointing from a jpg?"

smile.gif

Now - we just need to twist your arm to decode the xyz models from every stereo pair and we're on a winner smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: mhoward Jul 6 2005, 03:24 PM

QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 5 2005, 02:23 PM)
Ahh - from the IMG's..I was thinking "huh - how'd he get pointing from a jpg?"
*


I wish I could get pointing from the jpg's. I also rather wish they weren't stretched. smile.gif

Posted by: djellison Jul 6 2005, 04:32 PM

If you're going from IMG's - then you should pop in the radiometric offset and stretch and get lovely calibrated seamless pictures smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: crabbsaline Jul 9 2005, 07:11 AM

Mike,

I eagerly anticipate the new features that you have in the works. Keep up the good work!

Btw, I have considered sending an e-mail to Exploratorium to see why no new images are being posted. However, it would be less stressful on them if these requests pass through a single liason (i.e: you). Could you please ask them why no new images? Is it related to some downtime for the past July 4th holiday, and the vacations that often occur at this time? Is it due to the ending of 2nd quarter budget?

C'mon. I've got the shakes here. I need more MMB!

Much Thanks,

Brad

Posted by: mhoward Jul 9 2005, 02:03 PM

I think it would be a good idea for anyone who's concerned to contact Exploratorium. It'd probably help them to know that people are eagerly watching their site. http://www.exploratorium.edu/support/index.html is always a good idea, too, if you haven't done it.

Update: I've sent them an email, we'll see what they say.

Posted by: crabbsaline Jul 9 2005, 05:20 PM

Glad to hear that you contacted them. I'll send an additional query. I just didn't know if the best approach was for one person to speak for several, or for us to send them several messages. It is easier on them to respond to the former, but the latter more cleary demonstrates the audience that they have.

Btw, have you ever invited an Exploratorium Representitive to participate in this board?

Donation is certainly a fair thing to do. For the enjoyment that I've received from their timely updates, it was well worth giving something in return.

Much Thanks,

Brad

Posted by: mhoward Jul 11 2005, 04:22 AM

Version 1.2 is now posted, featuring an early version of the Panorama feature.

Consider the Panorama feature to be in an experimental stage. Java 3D is required, so check out the updated installation instructions if you want to use the feature.

Currently only pans from Sol 1-270 are available, since they can be generated from the rover data that has been released to the public. Next thing I'll be working on is a way to easily create "best guess" pans for sols that aren't in the PDS release yet.

Have fun! And remember this is an early version. I'm putting it out now because I know there are a couple people who want a look at it.

Posted by: alan Jul 11 2005, 04:50 PM

Wow! Feels like I'm there.

Posted by: mhoward Jul 12 2005, 02:06 PM

I heard back from Exploratorium and they were trying to get the issue resolved. Exploratorium is updated this morning with four new rear hazcam images from Opportunity Sol 511 - quite what that means I'm not sure, but perhaps regular updates have resumed now. They were hoping that all the "missed" images would show up but looks like maybe that is not going to be the case. Oh well - if you use MMB you got all the updates from the JPL site anyway (assuming *they* are posting everything...)

Posted by: djellison Jul 12 2005, 02:14 PM

JPL's not had anything since last week either

Doug

Posted by: mhoward Jul 12 2005, 02:35 PM

Well I just hope *somebody* fills in the gaps here eventually. I'm used to delays at the JPL site, I'm still hoping the images will show up there. unsure.gif

FYI, MMB users, I just did a Advanced Image Update from JPL for both rovers from Sol 400 on, with the Fast Update option checked, and it picked up some Oppy images that it hadn't caught before. Nothing really spectacular but still, you might want to swing back and pick those up if you're trying to maintain a complete set of images. If you use the Fast Update option it won't take very long.

Posted by: mhoward Jul 18 2005, 12:26 AM

My first post-Sol-270 Midnight Mars Browser panorama has been posted; http://www.flickr.com/photos/36868531@N00/26667862/

Posted by: mhoward Jul 22 2005, 04:51 AM

Version 1.2.1 is now up, featuring many improvements and fixes to the new Panorama feature.

Here is a navcam panorama from Spirit Sol 550 that I threw together this evening:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=27696424&size=o

Posted by: mhoward Jul 28 2005, 11:52 PM

Big update: Version 1.2.2, plus the generated panorama definitions for Sols 271-360 have been posted.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com


http://www.flickr.com/photos/36868531@N00/29332728/

Posted by: Nix Jul 30 2005, 04:56 PM

Looking great Michael! I'm installing as soon as I clear up some disk-space since I figure generating the mosaics will take up quite some room.

Thankyou for the fine work.

Nico

Posted by: CosmicRocker Jul 31 2005, 05:40 AM

Mike:

Bravo on the new version. We should all be grateful for your dedicated efforts. It is, and has long been the ultimate Mars browser that keeps getting better.

I'm a happy customer. smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Aug 2 2005, 09:57 PM

Thanks for your comments, everybody. I've fulfilled one personal ambition recently: got the MMB Panorama feature working before Spirit reached the summit of Husband Hill. smile.gif (Thank heavens for outcrops.)

My plan at the moment is regular (daily, at least) updates to http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/ and http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/MidnightMarsBrowser/metadata.html, and a more relaxed pace of development for the actual program. There's still I lot I would like to do with it for completeness but it's reaching a certain maturity, I think.

I invite your comments on what would be the most important features / improvements to work on next, given a somewhat slower pace of development. I have my own agenda but I always like to hear what if anything people are looking for.

Posted by: Rxke Aug 5 2005, 01:40 PM

Mr Howard...


Thank you so much for this fantastic program!


I simply can not believe I didn't install it earlier... Thought it wouldn't run on a six years old machine, but it runs great! smile.gif


To give you an idea of how much I appreciate this program: upon watching the first pan I literally had tears in my eyes...

This easily is the best browser for MER imagery, there's nothing coming close.


I'm going to get me a bigger HD, only for this program. (my 12 and 9GB HDD set used to be totally over the top, 6 years ago, heh.)


One small request: now in preferences (OSX) one can't change the home directory, which is a bit of a pain on a system with the primary disk chock full... I'd want to put all the data on a second one, but seems the thumbnails get stored in /users/XXXXX... This takes a non-trivial amount of space...
Is there a way around this?

Posted by: mhoward Aug 5 2005, 03:02 PM

Rxke, thanks for your response, it's nice to know people are getting something out of the program.

I don't think there's a way to move the thumbnails or the home directory to a different location right now. I tried making an alias to the thumbnails directory as a workaround, but unfortunately that doesn't work. However, I'll make fixing this a high priority for the next version. Some of these things don't get fixed just because I am working on other areas, so it's good to ask.

Posted by: mhoward Aug 5 2005, 03:08 PM

P.S. One thing you could do in the meantime is delete all the thumbnails for everything except navcam and pancam, ie, delete the thumbnails/{rover code}/f, fa, m, r and ra directories, as these thumbnails are not currently used. In fact you can always delete all of the thumbnails, the program will rebuild them as needed (although this will slow it down a bit as it rebuilds them).

Posted by: Rxke Aug 5 2005, 03:25 PM

Thank you for the swift reply!

Heh, also tried aliasing...

Meanwhile, I deleted/moved some stuff from my system partition, one has to make priorities! biggrin.gif


So it's not a very important request. But OTOH, I could imagine people carrying around all their data on an external HD, when visiting friends, and impressing them that way...


Keep up the excellent job!

Posted by: Nix Aug 5 2005, 03:38 PM

You should definitely consider externals Rxke! I have my valuable data on them and if your system could cope with firewire800 things run real smooth...

About visiting friends with the disks, you can get easily transportable ones but they're a lot more expensive for a given capacity...



Nico (dreaming of a few 2Tb Lacie Raid5's) laugh.gif

Posted by: djellison Aug 5 2005, 03:47 PM

I have all my MER stuff on a 250 Gb Maxtor external - then anything I'm actually 'working' on gets pinged onto a 72 Gig Western Digital Raptor - worked on, then put back on the Maxtor smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: Nix Aug 5 2005, 04:18 PM

Nice workflow tongue.gif I have considered the raptors, tell me about the speed!

sorry for being slightly off-topic Mike, however your software has one disadvantage; disk-overload laugh.gif

Nico

Posted by: mhoward Aug 5 2005, 04:22 PM

I hope to include IMG support someday; then we can talk about disk overload smile.gif

But seriously, I'll work on making the home directory configurable. In the meantime, hard drive storage schemes seem like more or less on topic for this product, as you point out...

Posted by: Rxke Aug 5 2005, 04:23 PM

Drool...

Waiting for all that nice stuff 'till I finished my studies, grrr... 35 and out of pocketchange, sigh...

BTW, scrap the 'tears in my eyes' part, I'm positively *groaning* with pleasure, going through the on-the-fly-generated pans.... java script:emoticon(':lol:')

This browser rocks!

*very happy chappy*

Posted by: Nix Aug 5 2005, 04:31 PM

IMG support tongue.gif I'm getting the 2Tb mad.gif

Nico

Posted by: djellison Aug 5 2005, 08:27 PM

Carefull with the Lacie drives. They are cool - BUT - they also use Raid-0 a lot - the 1TB one is 4 x 250 GB drives. If one drive goes down - you loose the lot sad.gif

Probably better to go with an internal option, say two 400Gb SATA drives in Raid-1, so if one dies - you're safe smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: cozmsbrpng Aug 6 2005, 05:08 AM

I love MMB. Thank you Michael. I just love it. Images straight from Mars through the rovers eyes to my desktop, and my tired little mouse doesn't even have to point or click or anything. Finally it can rest and watch Mars with me.

Michael, have you looked at using PanoTools in your code? It's an open source platform for panorama creation, and it can produce beautiful results: http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/index.html

I don't know if it would be compatible with your code, but it is open source, so I thought you might be interested. I managed to use it to build a couple of nice Mars panos: http://www.atgig.com/cozmsbrpng/index.html

They took me a while to assemble, but with all the information that is available from the rovers perhaps some of it could be automated. I know that much of the panorama creation done by the MER team is automated.

All the best to you!

Posted by: DEChengst Aug 6 2005, 09:53 AM

QUOTE (cozmsbrpng @ Aug 6 2005, 07:08 AM)
They took me a while to assemble, but with all the information that is available from the rovers perhaps some of it could be automated.  I know that much of the panorama creation done by the MER team is automated. 
*


You can use AutoPano to auto find the control points. I use it all the time, even for the Cassini stitching, and it works great:

http://autopano.kolor.com/

Posted by: Rxke Aug 6 2005, 11:18 AM

I'm slowly dowloading the full set, but given bandwidth restriction, it'll probably be a long time before it's complete. Trying to limit myself to 100Mb a day, heh...


A question re: false-color image generation...

Both here, on New Mars and probably countless other messageboards, there have been heated debates of what would be the best way to render 'true-color' pics, and looking at cornell's site, it seems they're pretty close...

However, you chose to use a default filterset that does not generate imagery that's close to 'true' color, and I'm not complaining, it is YOUR browser after all, but given the flexibility of generating false-true color imagery, using the advanced settings, wouldn't it be interestinxg if some people posted their suggested settings, of how they think is the best or closest approimation to true-color (here or on your blogspot)

I mean, now I can tweak, experiment, trial and err... but people like Doug surely have a pretty good idea which filtersets are best to lead to result XYZ... And *why* they choose those sets.

(Sorry for crappy, confused Engrish...)

Heh, ok... Trying to put this in one sentence...

What kind of settings would you and others suggest to render (as near as) true color pics (as possible) ?

Posted by: djellison Aug 6 2005, 02:02 PM

Using the raw JPG's - the best process for getting 'true' colour images is a highly technical process called "guesswork"

smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: Nix Aug 6 2005, 02:14 PM

Thanks on the Lacie-info Doug. that's another option..though I must find the will to burn some discs dry.gif

Nico

Posted by: DEChengst Aug 6 2005, 04:32 PM

Screenshot of MMB running under Tru64 UNIX 5.1B:

http://paranoid.dechengst.nl/mars/MMB%20Tru64.jpg

cool.gif

Posted by: mhoward Aug 7 2005, 10:33 PM

QUOTE (cozmsbrpng @ Aug 6 2005, 05:08 AM)
Michael, have you looked at using PanoTools in your code?  It's an open source platform for panorama creation, and it can produce beautiful results: http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/index.html
*


Might look at it in the future... For the moment my emphasis is on fast realtime VR pans rather than technically perfect static panoramas. Fortunately there's lots of people here working on the "real" panoramas. smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Aug 7 2005, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (Rxke @ Aug 6 2005, 11:18 AM)
What kind of settings would you and others suggest to render (as near as) true color pics (as possible) ?
*


It's not quite that simple, unfortunately... I think usually there is not a lot of choice which filter set to use, because usually only a few filters' worth of images are returned. Something about available bandwidth between here and Mars, I guess. And there are other issues as well. So, since it's a bit complex, MMB currently doesn't do any real color adjustment such as you'll see elsewhere. However, there's something I could do to give us some 'true color' in the near future, at least for pre-Sol 360... hope to talk about that more soon.

Posted by: Rxke Aug 7 2005, 11:35 PM

Thankss for the explanation.
Started to slowly figure that out myself, though... Seeing the cases where you can choose from filtersets being quite rare (esp for panorama's)

This is the greatest bit of software ever! Can't get enough of it...
Can't get enough of the MERs either... Hope they keep rolling and rolling and rolling!

Posted by: mhoward Aug 15 2005, 02:51 AM

Version 1.2.4 is up. Rxke, as you can see your wish is my command (within reason smile.gif ) - ie, configurable home directory has been added.

Since there are a lot of changes/improvements, I'll quote my whole blog entry below:

QUOTE
Midnight Mars Browser version 1.2.4 is now available. Here's what's changed:

- Midnight Mars Browser home directory is now configurable in Preferences. Preferences are now stored in the MidnightMarsBrowser.properties file in the user directory, or in {user directory}/Library/Preferences on Mac OS X.

- Status displayed in title bar while panoramas are loading.

- Faster updates: eliminated unneccesary file checks, particularly for metadata.

- Fast reloading of panorama list when panorama criteria is changed.

- Panorama Screenshot feature (under File -> Advanced).

- Must enter Panorama Edit Mode (under File -> Advanced) before allowed to edit panoramas.

- Panorama full resolution mode loads navcam images first at full 1024x1024 resolution, then pancam images, until out of memory.

- Donation, software update reminder dialogs.

- Increased maximum memory allocation for the JVM from 128M to 192M.

- Changed "Check for New Images" button in main window to "Update Now"; now does an update same as Auto Update.

With this version MMB officially becomes "Shareware" instead of "Freeware". Nothing is disabled; there is only a reminder dialog asking you to donate if you use the software regularly. (Thanks to oheresy for reminding me to mention that.) A big Thank You to those who have already donated; you may simply press the "I donated" button when the reminder dialog appears. MMB will continue to be freely available; my mission with it is to help promote the remarkable MER missions and NASA/JPL's outstanding public availability of raw images.


http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: mhoward Aug 15 2005, 03:18 AM

Postscript:

I am thinking of getting the word out a little more about the program. Until now it's been a bit of a "secret" mainly known to the Unmanned Spaceflight crowd. Now, I think it might possibly be of more general interest, and could even help promote MER a bit amongst some people. If anyone has ideas about where (what sites) I could mention the program, or wants to mention the program themselves there, I'd appreciate it. For one thing, as soon as I get some basic documentation created, I plan to submit the program to Apple's OS X software tracker, since there is a special OS X version of the program.

Posted by: Rxke Aug 15 2005, 08:19 AM

Great!
And the other tweaks/improvements you mentioned, were also on my wishlist, greatgreatgreat! biggrin.gif

Getting this up at Slashdot would give you lots of scope (and a fried server... Or rather a couple of fried servers.... Here, Blogspot, Exploratorium...)

I suggest adding a FAQ on your site, re:documentation...

Posted by: Rxke Aug 15 2005, 12:37 PM

Hm. For some reason, changing my home folder doesn't work. It always reverts to the old one. Even if I rename the old one, it generates a new one in the old place... huh.gif

And I don't see a 'donate' window popping up, either... (OSX 10.3.9)

Posted by: mhoward Aug 15 2005, 12:57 PM

Did you change it in the Preferences? You'd need to do that as well as rename your directory.

The donate window doesn't pop up until you've used the program for 24 hours total since version 1.2.4 was installed, so I wouldn't worry about that, but look at Help -> About and make sure you're looking at the right version.

Posted by: mhoward Aug 15 2005, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Aug 15 2005, 12:57 PM)
Did you change it in the Preferences? You'd need to do that as well as rename your directory.
*


Never mind... There seems to be something wrong with it. I'll have to fix it later tonight. In the meantime it should work as it did before.

Posted by: cozmsbrpng Aug 15 2005, 04:26 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Aug 14 2005, 09:18 PM)
Postscript:

I am thinking of getting the word out a little more about the program. Until now it's been a bit of a "secret" mainly known to the Unmanned Spaceflight crowd. Now, I think it might possibly be of more general interest, and could even help promote MER a bit amongst some people. If anyone has ideas about where (what sites) I could mention the program, or wants to mention the program themselves there, I'd appreciate it. For one thing, as soon as I get some basic documentation created, I plan to submit the program to Apple's OS X software tracker, since there is a special OS X version of the program.
*


If you're going to go for slashdot, just be prepared for a hefty bandwidth bill and warn your ISP that the horde is coming. Why not go gradual and try to get a mention from the planetary society (http://planetary.org/blog)? Emily Lakdawalla writes a widely read blog there, and has linked to good MER-related sites in the past. She seems to mostly deal directly with the project scientists, but maybe MMB would be an exception.

Posted by: mhoward Aug 15 2005, 05:15 PM

Okay, that was a bit of a fiasco... Suffice it to say that Version 1.2.4 had a couple problems, such as the Panorama dialog not working for new users, and the home directory selection option not working. Let's just say I planned this as a test of the new software update reminder dialog (and hope *that* doesn't have problems...)

Anyway, version 1.2.5 is now up, and should fix those problems, and if you downloaded Version 1.2.4, then please get rid of that and download version 1.2.5 right away. We apologize for the inconvenience.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: elakdawalla Aug 16 2005, 03:12 PM

QUOTE (cozmsbrpng @ Aug 15 2005, 09:26 AM)
QUOTE (mhoward @ Aug 14 2005, 09:18 PM)

I am thinking of getting the word out a little more about the program. Until now it's been a bit of a "secret" mainly known to the Unmanned Spaceflight crowd. Now, I think it might possibly be of more general interest, and could even help promote MER a bit amongst some people. If anyone has ideas about where (what sites) I could mention the program, or wants to mention the program themselves there, I'd appreciate it. For one thing, as soon as I get some basic documentation created, I plan to submit the program to Apple's OS X software tracker, since there is a special OS X version of the program.
*

If you're going to go for slashdot, just be prepared for a hefty bandwidth bill and warn your ISP that the horde is coming. Why not go gradual and try to get a mention from the planetary society (http://planetary.org/blog)? Emily Lakdawalla writes a widely read blog there, and has linked to good MER-related sites in the past. She seems to mostly deal directly with the project scientists, but maybe MMB would be an exception.
*



Ask and ye shall receive... smile.gif
http://planetary.org/blog

Emily

Posted by: Rxke Aug 16 2005, 03:52 PM

Too cool for words!

Only shows-once again- what a great communication tool the intarweb is.

mHoward: totally impressed by the speed of your updateing/bugfixing. Huge thumbs-up and thanks!

Posted by: mhoward Aug 16 2005, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 16 2005, 03:12 PM)
Ask and ye shall receive... smile.gif
http://planetary.org/blog

Emily
*


Wow! That looks fantastic! Thank you!

Michael

Posted by: djellison Aug 16 2005, 04:14 PM

Bieng /.'d is my #1 fear about this place smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: cozmsbrpng Aug 16 2005, 05:42 PM

Very cool. It's an Emily "The Genie" Lakdawalla sighting! <cozms> <-- big fan; politely wants your job

I am glad I did not post MMB to slashdot. I came real close...maybe I've finally learned some net manners. I've forgotten how I stumbled on this little secret, but I definitely had to dig around for a while.

Many thanks again to Michael for all your hard work.

Posted by: SFJCody Aug 16 2005, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (cozmsbrpng @ Aug 15 2005, 04:26 PM)
If you're going to go for slashdot, just be prepared for a hefty bandwidth bill and warn your ISP that the horde is coming.


Putting the MMB software up as a torrent would also reduce the bandwidth cost.

Posted by: mhoward Aug 17 2005, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (cozmsbrpng @ Aug 16 2005, 05:42 PM)
I am glad I did not post MMB to slashdot.  I came real close...maybe I've finally learned some net manners.  I've forgotten how I stumbled on this little secret, but I definitely had to dig around for a while.
*


I don't know... I honestly wonder at this point if getting /.'ed would make too much difference at this point. Interest in the rovers is not what it once was.

As for me, I put my site on Blogspot, my images are hosted on Flickr, and the downloads are on dotMac, so at least other people can worry about the bandwidth. My biggest worry would be dotMac, I suppose I might at least have to take the movies off there. I guess the next thing I would do though is submit the program to some software sites, and see what happens from there.

Posted by: mhoward Aug 21 2005, 05:35 PM

Version 1.2.7 fixes problems where the program wouldn't work unless Java 3D was installed. Update and Slideshow should now work without Java 3D installed.

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: Airbag Aug 21 2005, 06:39 PM

I don't know why I hadn't installed MMB until just a couple of days ago, but WOW, I am very impressed. It really does do everything I always would have liked to do with respect to the MER pictures. No more laborious clicking and saving for me!

I have a question and a request though:

In the slideshow criteria, I tried to specify L4L5L6 images only (on the right), while keeping the pre-set false colour pancam setting (on the left). But, when the slideshow starts, I still see L247 etc images. I must be missing something...am I specifying the filter criteria incorrectly, or is there something else I must select too?

The pano feature with the pancam insets and free scrolling etc. is just amazing. And so many pre-set panos to look at. That is where my request comes in...would there be some way to add a flag to indicate which ones I have already looked at? There are so many and I just can't remember them all.

As an aside, what is the system limitation that results in the "out of memory error" when making a panorama full size? My system has 1G of RAM so I would not have thought that was the restriction. If it is an MMB one, would there be some way of specifying a larger memory size?

Thanks again for such a wonderful program; I'll be exercising my Paypal account soon. wink.gif

Airbag

PS Before I discovered this forum, I spent many hours, no days, making my own false colour images and panoramas. Now I see others's efforts before I even knew the new images were up. Thanks to all of you for your time and effort; I know how much time it can all take.

Posted by: mhoward Aug 21 2005, 07:07 PM

Airbag: Thanks; these are good questions that mostly arise because I haven't documented these features much yet. Let me answer them here and I will work on the documentation later.

QUOTE (Airbag @ Aug 21 2005, 06:39 PM)
In the slideshow criteria, I tried to specify L4L5L6 images only (on the right), while keeping the pre-set false colour pancam setting (on the left). But, when the slideshow starts, I still see L247 etc images.  I must be missing something...am I specifying the filter criteria incorrectly, or is there something else I must select too?


The "Limit pancam filters to:" field only works for pancam raw images, not color composites. For example, if you wanted to see only L7 pancam raw images, you could put L7 in the field, or if you want to see L4, L5 and L6 images only, you could put L4,L5,L6 in the field.

QUOTE (Airbag @ Aug 21 2005, 06:39 PM)
The pano feature with the pancam insets and free scrolling etc. is just amazing. And so many pre-set panos to look at. That is where my request comes in...would there be some way to add a flag to indicate which ones I have already looked at? There are so many and I just can't remember them all.


I'm trying to figure out the best way of handling that; especially I'd like to have some way of notifying people when new pans show up. That'll take awhile. In the meantime I might properly label some of the more complete pans that have names associated with them ("Thanksgiving Pan" etc.), plus I'm thinking of a checkbox for displaying only "complete" pans as opposed to the many, many pans with only fragmentary image coverage.

QUOTE (Airbag @ Aug 21 2005, 06:39 PM)
As an aside, what is the system limitation that results in the "out of memory error" when making a panorama full size? My system has 1G of RAM so I would not have thought that was the restriction. If it is an MMB one, would there be some way of specifying a larger memory size?


The limitation is the Java maximum heap size parameter, which is specified in the MidnightMarsBrowser.bat on Windows and the MidnightMarsBrowser.sh file on Unix/other. On Windows, you can edit the .bat file and change "-Xmx192m" to a higher number like "-Xmx256m" or even "-Xmx512m". "-Xmx512m" would be the highest value I'd try; that's 512Mb. On Unix/other, do the same in the .sh file. Mac OS X is a bit more involved; there you need to ctrl-click on the MidnightMarsBrowser executable and select "Show Package Contents", then edit the Contents/Info.plist file using TextEdit (search for "-Xmx"). Do this carefully.

I may make these numbers higher to start out with in future releases, but it's kind of a balancing act at the moment, because if I make them too high, the program might not work as well on systems with less memory.

Thanks,
Michael

Posted by: Airbag Aug 21 2005, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Aug 21 2005, 03:07 PM)
The limitation is the Java maximum heap size parameter, which is specified in the MidnightMarsBrowser.bat on Windows and the MidnightMarsBrowser.sh file on Unix/other. On Windows, you can edit the .bat file and change "-Xmx192m" to a higher number like "-Xmx256m" or even "-Xmx512m". "-Xmx512m" would be the highest value I'd try; that's 512Mb.


Thanks for your quick response! I tried the 512M setting as shown above, and now complex panos (such as the great Spirit 566-572, with the sunset) no longer run out of memory. Cool!

Airbag

Posted by: planet_guy Aug 26 2005, 09:28 AM

hi
very nice software.. just installed it and downloaded the image data - I just love our fast connection biggrin.gif
However the panorama function is not working sad.gif
I have no panoramas in the list and when I try to update the metadata I get a strange error message:
Error reading C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\x2x\MidnightMarsBrowser\metadata\downloaded\homepage.htm: did not find expected tag.

Already tried to delete the file and update the images again.. did not solve the problem sad.gif

Posted by: mhoward Aug 26 2005, 10:33 AM

planet_guy: That's strange... Could you email me that file (homepage.htm) from your harddrive, so I can see what it looks like. Thanks.

Posted by: planet_guy Aug 26 2005, 11:44 AM

I already tried to look at the file, but it seems to be binary.. no readable information as far as I could see

Posted by: mhoward Aug 27 2005, 03:13 AM

I'm excited about this one: Version 1.3.0 features integration with Daniel Crotty's http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/. We've been working on putting this together for awhile. Here's a screenshot of Daniel's images in MMB Panorama mode:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=37500361&size=l

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/2005/08/version-130.html

1.3.0 also features faster updates from Exploratorium and more. http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com

Posted by: lyford Aug 27 2005, 05:08 AM

um

ah

er

*all agog*

now i am never going to get any sleep.... this is incredible....

Posted by: Rxke Aug 27 2005, 11:41 AM

Looks great... I think.
Forced to use a crummy laptop with half-broken LCD screen,aaaargh, not now!

Main desktop computer really ill, no time to troubleshoot.

Murphy all over again.

Posted by: Nix Aug 27 2005, 12:03 PM

Great work guys!
I somehow knew this was coming tongue.gif

Nico

Posted by: Nix Aug 27 2005, 12:08 PM

Michael, what to do about this when I update metadata; >update error window
"java.lang.NullPointerException" ?


Nico

Posted by: mhoward Aug 27 2005, 01:36 PM

QUOTE (NIX @ Aug 27 2005, 12:08 PM)
Michael, what to do about this when I update metadata; >update error window
"java.lang.NullPointerException" ?
Nico
*


Is there more information under "java.lang.NullPointerException"? If not please send me your ErrorLog.txt file from your MMB home directory (assuming you've updated to 1.3.0).

Posted by: mhoward Aug 27 2005, 04:12 PM

Nico,

Is there an error before the NullPointerException in the update log window? It looks like the program is having problems downloading the Midnight Mars Browser homepage. One possible workaround is to go to the page (http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/) in your web browser and save the page as filename homepage.htm in your directory {mmb home directory}/metadata/downloaded. But since this is potentially the second time this has come up, I'd like to figure out what's going on.

Posted by: Nix Aug 27 2005, 10:01 PM

Thanks, no results yet though, I'm checking if there's nothing wrong in my configuration and let you know tommorrow. I'm guessing if it's only the second time you heard of it, it might be an issue on my side...

Nico

Posted by: mhoward Sep 1 2005, 02:46 PM

For anyone who's interested, there's a new development version http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/MidnightMarsBrowser/beta.html. If you want to be on the bleeding edge. I'll probably make this a release version in a few days.

Posted by: mhoward Sep 3 2005, 10:20 PM

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/2005/09/version-131.html is now up.

Posted by: dilo Sep 5 2005, 11:51 AM

Michael, unfortunately I'm experiencing a problem (maybe the same from Nico) with all latest versions (including 1.3.1). This is the full content of update status window when I press "update now" button:

CODE
Checking for new images Mon Sep 05 13:47:41 CEST 2005
Checking Opportunity raw images from Exploratorium. Last download time is 03-set-2005 00:00
Reading http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/... scanning...
Reading http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/2005-09-03/... scanning... java.text.ParseException: Unparseable date: "03-Sep-2005 21:00"
    at java.text.DateFormat.parse(Unknown Source)
    at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.updateLocalRawFromExpScanFilenames(Update.java:2381)
    at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.updateLocalRawImagesFromExploratoriumCameraCode(Update.java:2329)
    at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.checkLocalRawImagesFromExploratorium(Update.java:2234)
    at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.doCheckExploratorium(Update.java:1706)
    at midnightmarsbrowser.Update.run(Update.java:530)
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Writing image indexes... done.

Posted by: mhoward Sep 5 2005, 03:21 PM

Dilo,

http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com/2005/09/version-132.html should fix the problem. Please try it out.

Thanks,
Mike

Posted by: dilo Sep 5 2005, 06:35 PM

Thanks to you Mike! Now is downloading well, I have a lot of pictures to see!!! biggrin.gif
(Your program is simply great and ever improving, I cannot imagine wath will be able to do within few months...!)

Posted by: mhoward Sep 5 2005, 07:01 PM

Thanks dilo, I'm glad that fixed the problem.

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