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Posted by: Sunspot Jul 15 2004, 02:50 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3896335.stm

Ammonia may have been found in Mars' atmosphere which some scientists say could indicate life on the Red Planet.

Researchers say its spectral signature has been tentatively detected by sensors onboard the European Space Agency's orbiting Mars Express craft.

Posted by: remcook Jul 15 2004, 03:02 PM

very interesting indeed!
(why did beagle have to crash?! oh well...we'll have other chances)

even without MARSIS, Mars Express has proven itself As a European, I feel good about that

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 15 2004, 06:29 PM

I must say you're easily pleased. Maybe I missed them but I don't believe there have been any press conferences announcing Mars Express science results. And other than than an occasional ESA press or web release, and one paper in the journal Nature, I haven't really seen any real science results to date, certainly nothing that would justify asserting "Mars Express has proven itself." That said, I have no doubt that Mars Express, like Mars Pathfinder, MGS, Mars Odyssey, & MER, will return very good science.

Posted by: remcook Jul 15 2004, 09:30 PM

well, you're right. I AM very easily pleased. I am happy about every result, especially when it is as interesting as this one (though it still needs to be peer-reviewed, etc). I am just an interested member of the public. I don't depend on the data or science results. I am not a scientist. Not yet, at least.

It was more correct to say: "FOR ME, Mars Express has proven itself". proven its capabilities to do exciting and good science and I expect many more results to come.

Posted by: remcook Jul 20 2004, 09:51 AM

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040719.wstrauss0720/BNStory/Front/

oh wel...

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 20 2004, 05:28 PM

This was what I was referring to last week on the Space.com Message Boards when I alluded to the fact that many in the science community, including some members of the PFS team, thought Whitehouse's BBC story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3896335.stm

was pure rubbish and that some had even used the word "hoax." According to Strauss, the BBC stated that Whitehouse relied on, among other things, Formisano's abstract for the COSPAR 2004 conference:

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/COSPAR04/01554/COSPAR04-A-01554.pdf

As anyone who can read can see, Formisano only reported that it might be possible to detect ammonia. He certainly never stated, or even hinted, that ammonia had been detected on Mars.

This is a cautionary tale, in my opinion, about sloppy journalism and the over-reliance on abstracts, which are not peer-reviewed, and which are usually submitted months ahead of time. These abstracts are usually very speculative and often present very preliminary views that are then subjected to the filter of peer review.

Posted by: djellison Jul 20 2004, 05:52 PM

Unfortunately, the BBC's science reporting skills are - uncharacteristically - very very poor, often innacurate, and resorts to sensationalizing issues. They do correct errors when they're told, but there are far too many to begin with.

Doug

Posted by: remcook Jul 20 2004, 06:56 PM

I find it very disappointing, especially since it comes from the BBC. One would somehow expect more than sensationalism.

Posted by: BruceMoomaw Jul 29 2004, 04:31 AM

As consolation, consider the following items:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1182551,00.html
http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040726/full/040726-3.html

It really appears at this point that Martian methane is an almost-sure thing -- although the question of whether its source if biological or geological is still wide open. (The fact that Mumma has detected it at Meridiani in no way rules out the possibility that it's due to volcanic venting -- and if Mars Express has found a concentration near the Tharsis volcanoes, this would seem to be further evidence of it. Even that, however, would be of major if indirect biological importance, since it could allow us to locate hydrothermal regions.

And, yes, David Whitehouse is a godawful science reporter, who has goen off half-cocked time and time againe

Posted by: Sunspot Jul 31 2004, 04:21 PM

So whats going on with Mars Express PFS and the methane etc. I thought there was supposed to be a presentation at the COSPAR meeting but the lead scientist for PFS cancelled. Is that true? If so, why?

Posted by: smerral Aug 2 2004, 10:44 AM

Well, the ammonia story is NOT completely bogus - it's very tentative at this stage, but the POSSIBLE signature for ammonia has been identified in the PFS spectra:

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=34633

Lots of work still to be done of course, but ESA's denial still seems over the top to me.