My Assistant
| Posted on: Jul 21 2005, 01:01 AM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
So, now that the shouting and the explosions are over, let's look back and examine: What exactly have we learned about comets or cometary interiors that we did not know before Deep Impact, other than at least one of them is mantled in thick dust? And just why did Deep Impact have its event on July 4? It sounds to me like something that Dan the man Goldin would have directed the mission to be built around, just for better PR. |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #15001 · Replies: 6 · Views: 9423 |
| Posted on: Jul 18 2005, 11:24 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (MahFL @ Jul 18 2005, 08:49 PM) Me thinks the person who wrote this is not all that clued up on Space Exploration : http://www.boston.com/news/science/gallery/mars_rover?pg=5 "The Mars rover Opportunity was photographed crossing the planet." Darn good camera that isn't it ? Oh, that's the camera on Phobos 3. It has a 1 cm resolution, and cost $50. |
| Forum: Conferences and Broadcasts · Post Preview: #14760 · Replies: 3 · Views: 7829 |
| Posted on: Jul 18 2005, 08:24 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (Phillip @ Jul 18 2005, 03:10 PM) There is an interesting article in the "Breaking News" section of today's electronic Boston Globe, which often means it will be in tomorrow's print edition. http://www.boston.com/news/science/article...eep_on_ticking/ :wheel: :wheel: :wheel: Nice to see that people remember it. How is it breaking news? Isn't it funny how people go nuts about the rovers when the land, scream for color photos and analysis before the team has a chance to do any, but once they start doing real science and going to really spectacular places, everyone forgets about them? Now when they finally break, THEN they'll make the news. |
| Forum: Conferences and Broadcasts · Post Preview: #14744 · Replies: 3 · Views: 7829 |
| Posted on: Jul 14 2005, 07:01 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 8 2005, 08:10 PM) An updated NH mission background and current status presentation, replete with some nice eye candy, can be found as the topmost link at www.boulder.swri.edu/pkb Good slideshow - I note that there's an image of the spacecraft being spun around in environmental testing. You wouldn't happen to have a video of that test by any chance? |
| Forum: New Horizons · Post Preview: #14461 · Replies: 1628 · Views: 1113844 |
| Posted on: Jul 14 2005, 03:31 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jul 12 2005, 02:56 PM) Marcel: I don't know those DVDs myself, but would suggest eBay is worth a look. Oh, and if you're interested in the Apollo flights and/or Saturn launch vehicles, HMV have just started selling the Spacecraft Films range - and even advertising them! I bought both Mighty Saturns sets and Apollo 11 for £100 recently. Great stuff, with material you won'y have seen before (like: Saturn 1 development flight footage from within the S-IV oxygen tank showing the oxidiser draining away (I never realised before that LOX looks just like water when it's not boiling and steaming away!)). Bob Shaw Mighty Saturns is excellent. Of those you mention Dead or Alive is probably the best (strangely titled) but I thought Part II was really bad. They bascially spend 50 minutes of the hour talking about the flash memory problem and then the rest of the 10 minutes talking about how they were afraid to grind blueberries with the RAT. Then at the end they say one sentence like "Spirit's flash memory problem was fixed and it visited a crater and the Columbia Hills. Opportunity left its crater and looked at a crater called Endurance." And that was it. Ridiculous. |
| Forum: Conferences and Broadcasts · Post Preview: #14438 · Replies: 31 · Views: 36008 |
| Posted on: Jul 14 2005, 03:28 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
Speaking of coverage, I found this beautiful peace on Yahoo: QUOTE ("THEY") And they found themselves on the defensive, [my emphasis] explaining why they pressed ahead with the launch when the same type of potentially fatal problem cropped up during a fueling test just three months ago and was accepted as an "unexplained anomaly." Some engineers had pushed for further testing at the pad before committing to a liftoff, but were overruled by top managers who concluded that the replacement of cables, the electronics box and the tank itself was ample. <snip> The disappointment came just a day after an embarrassing turn for NASA, when a plastic cockpit window cover fell off the shuttle and damaged its fragile thermal tiles before the spacecraft had even taken off. What IS this? They're writing it like NASA's never scrubbed a launch before. Embarrassing? Perhaps, but that plastic window cover would NEVER have made the news if this wasn't the RTF launch. "On the defensive"? Launches are scrubbed all the time! The whole point of learning from Columbia is to be more cautious about safety things like these silly sensors - but when they are, they're "embarrassed" and "defensive." I guess most non-space people don't realize how common it is to scrub a launch. They seem to get ridiculed no matter what they do. |
| Forum: Manned Spaceflight · Post Preview: #14437 · Replies: 48 · Views: 50213 |
| Posted on: Jul 14 2005, 02:30 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
Whatever happened to NEAP? As crazy as he may sound, he did sucessfully lead the development of the famous laughing gas and tire rubber engine for SS1. |
| Forum: Private Missions · Post Preview: #14429 · Replies: 3 · Views: 9413 |
| Posted on: Jul 14 2005, 02:28 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
Alan: Do you and the science team plan to (or have you not thought about it yet) share the raw NH images with the public as soon as they're downlinked, as the Cassini and MER teams do? |
| Forum: New Horizons · Post Preview: #14427 · Replies: 1628 · Views: 1113844 |
| Posted on: Jul 11 2005, 11:07 AM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
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| Forum: Lunar Exploration · Post Preview: #14197 · Replies: 104 · Views: 94082 |
| Posted on: Jul 6 2005, 09:21 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
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| Forum: Chit Chat · Post Preview: #13988 · Replies: 24 · Views: 27779 |
| Posted on: Jul 6 2005, 09:17 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
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| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13987 · Replies: 192 · Views: 113457 |
| Posted on: Jul 5 2005, 03:07 AM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
I also think NASA could have milked the publicity far more effectively than they actually did with just the one press conference. Although kudos must go out to the Deep Impact team for providing us space aficionados with images and animations within just minutes of impact. |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13838 · Replies: 114 · Views: 145323 |
| Posted on: Jul 5 2005, 02:58 AM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
How many of you here are Star Trek fans? I've loved watching the original for as long as I can remember. |
| Forum: Chit Chat · Post Preview: #13837 · Replies: 24 · Views: 27779 |
| Posted on: Jul 5 2005, 02:46 AM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 5 2005, 02:40 AM) To Ted: both the HRI and MRI images were multispectral -- but as yet, I don't have the wavelengths or even the number of filters. I'll continue digging. (There is a good simulation of what they were hoping for from the HRI, when it came to observing layers in the imact crater walls, at http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/hri.html .) I think there are six colors in the MRI filter wheel, if I recollect an article in the Planetary Report correctly. Edit: This source gives nine colors for MRI: http://www.deepimpact.umd.edu/collaborativ...IntervSheet.pdf Edit 2: This source gives nine for both. Nothing on the wavelenghts they let in, though. http://www.beltonspace.com/bsei_web_page_g000000.pdf |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13836 · Replies: 114 · Views: 145323 |
| Posted on: Jul 5 2005, 02:38 AM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 5 2005, 01:48 AM) ... Just about the only thing we actually got out of Deep Impact that such an alternative mission couldn't have provided was the data the impact may have provided on the chemical composition of really deeply buried subsurface ices -- and was this enough to compensate for the other stuff we passed up? This returns me to something I've wondered about for years: just how did Deep Impact actually get selected? Its selection was a total surprise to me; it muscled ahead of other Discovery finalists -- Aladdin, and a VESAT or VESPER Venus orbiter -- which were not only finalists this time but had been during the previous selection, too (which D.I. never had been). Is it possible that Dan Goldin intervened and ordered the selection of Deep Impact as yet another of his harebrained NASA PR stunts with questionable science return (Mars Pathfinder, with its cute but scientifically mediocre rover and not-very-efficient airbag system; the cancelled 2003 miniature Mars Airplane; the proposed all-girl Shuttle flight; the cancellation of a sensible 2003 Pluto probe in favor of a far more difficult and technically sophisticated early Europa Orbiter, with the highly predictable result thaat we got neither)? I already know that NASA HQ virtually ordered the selection of Phoenix in the supposedly "independent" 2007 Mars Scout selection; we were explicitly told so at the first Mars Roadmap meeting. Bruce: You bring up some interesting points. However, one thing to note about Deep Impact is that the media coverage of it, at least in online sources, is about as good as anything I've seen on an unmanned mission, and probably better, and I fully expect to see photos of impact on the front page of every major newspaper tomorrow morning. The explosion and the July 4th impact seems to really provide instant gratification for those who don't like waiting for all that boring science to come out of these missions. After all, why wait a week or two to wait for the data to be downlinked and some extremely basic conclusions made about the comet when you can ask questions about tunnels on the nucleus today? That said, I think there is some valuable science here. We will have some good information on the interior makeup of the comet if the spectroscopy goes well, and we already have some good images. And you must admit that whatever their scientific value may be, those impact images are jaw-dropping. Usually you only see stuff like that in artists' conceptions! Bruce, do you know if the July 4th date was chosen intentionally or "ordered" by our good friend Mr. Goldin? |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13834 · Replies: 114 · Views: 145323 |
| Posted on: Jul 4 2005, 11:35 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
Trying to make sure I understand the geometry of the image: in the lookback image, the really bright spot is the sun, right? (As opposed to the plume from the impact) |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13827 · Replies: 114 · Views: 145323 |
| Posted on: Jul 4 2005, 10:20 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (john_s @ Jul 4 2005, 10:13 PM) I don't think it's that bad- the main way they planned to see what was in the crater was to watch that stuff being blasted out into space, rather than look at what was left behind in the hole- they will have lots of data on what's inside the comet. But seeing the crater would tell a great deal about the strength of the nucleus and about impacts in general. If they can't see the crater through the the plume, it will be a disappointment, but not a disaster. I see. I thought they wanted to see the layers of the interior of the comet in cross-section. Although it seems like the majority of the imaged are still being downlinked. |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13826 · Replies: 114 · Views: 145323 |
| Posted on: Jul 4 2005, 10:06 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
Let me get this straight: they're not sure if they see the crater? The whole point of the mission was to look inside the crater to see the interior of the nucleus! Don't get me wrong, the nucleus photos are great and the impact photos are absolutely spectacular, but what about the science? |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13824 · Replies: 114 · Views: 145323 |
| Posted on: Jul 3 2005, 04:35 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
When will the first images be downlinked? Where's the first place we'll be able to see them? |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #13674 · Replies: 62 · Views: 65470 |
| Posted on: Jun 16 2005, 05:20 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jun 16 2005, 02:38 AM) Footnote: the reason that the radiation dose for a Jovian polar orbiter that makes 50 Io flybys would be so much smaller than that for an actual Io Orbiter is because Jupiter's trapped radiation is concentrated not only close to the planet (except for its very closest region), but also around its equatorial plane, where the Galilean satellites orbit. This is also what allows Juno to get away with orbiting so close to Jupiter (with solar panels, yet) without getting quickly fried; during the part of each orbit when it's near Jupiter's equator, it's also very close to the planet and thus closer than the range of Jupiter's most intense radiation belt. Huh? SOLAR PANELS? When will they learn... no chance of RTGs at all? How the heck do you any real data rate from Jupiter with solar? |
| Forum: Jupiter · Post Preview: #12644 · Replies: 121 · Views: 175019 |
| Posted on: Jun 15 2005, 02:51 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jun 11 2005, 09:04 PM) Juno's orbit will go from only 4500 km above Jupiter's 1-bar air pressure level (it will be even closer to the tops of the ammonia clouds) all the way out to 30 Jupiter radii from the planet. (They need to get that close to ensure really high-resolution gravity and magnetic maps of Jupiter -- it's the same orbit planned for the "INSIDE Jupiter" mission that was a Discovery finalist twice and has now been combined with two other Jovian Discovery proposals to create Juno.) That periapsis will wander somewhat in latitude, although I haven't got specific figures yet -- but I believe it's enough to theoretically allow flybys of any mooon out to Callisto. PI Scott Bolton tells me that there are currently no plans for flybys of any of the moons (although, during our previous conversations, he had expressed some interest in the idea during the extended mission); but the description in Space.com says that Juno's camera may be used for longer-distance photos of Io and Amalthea. It's important to remember that this mission has radically different goals from any mission to study Europa or the other moons -- its purpose is to study JUPITER, by God, and specifically its composition and the size of its rock/ice core, which are extremely important in answering questions about how the giant planets actually formed. (This is one of the most important questions for planetary scientists right now, and there are two radically different theories.) Also Jupiter's polar magnetosphere, which the NASA's Sun-Solar Systems Directorate -- separately from its Solar System Directorate -- has also declared to be an extremely important short-term goal for its own researches and worthy of a mission. To achieve all this, it needs an orbit completely different from those that would be used by a moon-studying orbiter -- and since such a mission is also simpler and cheaper, they decided, entirely logically, to fly it first. As for the Europa mixup, John Rehling doesn't mention the biggest villain of all: Dan Goldin, aka "Captain Crazy". NASA's science advisory board recommended officially -- and entirely sensibly -- that a Pluto mission, which required no new technology at all, should be flown BEFORE the Europa Orbiter, and specifically in 2003. Dan Goldin, however, was determined to reverse their order because of his personal obsession with astrobiology at all costs -- "Nobody gives a damn about Pluto", he told his staffers. (His repeated urgings that NASA should use radically new technologies, entirely unnecessarily, to build a teeny-weeny Pluto probe --"the size of my fist", to quote one disgruntled researcher -- were, as he privately told his staffers, just a cover for the fact that he intended to kill the Pluto mission completely.) The result, given the very real and major new technological difficulties in flying a Europa Orbiter, were that we didn't get either mission -- or rather that the Pluto mission was delayed until 2006 and finally rammed through by Congress over the dead bodies of Goldin, Sean O'Keefe and President Bush, which means both a more expensive Pluto mission and a distinctly scientifically inferior one to what we would have had had it been launched in 2003 or 2004. The case for such a mission, both scientifically and fiscally, was so strong that even the GOP Congress was finally firmly convinced of the idiocy of not flying it. (To my continuing amazement, I myself ended up playing a significant role in getting that decision made -- largely due to a SpaceDaily article I published in 2000 pointing out that either the Stardust or CONTOUR comet probe could be easily redesigned to fly a Pluto mission cheaply -- which is why I have a free ticket to its launch next January. No doubt other people had come up with the same idea; but Goldin, it later turned out, had been threatening to cut off their grants if they didn't keep their mouths shut. They had no such leverage over me, and so I ended up -- entirely accidentally -- belling the cat. But I digress.) Anyway, as a result of Goldin's monomania, we ended up getting both a Pluto mission later and worse and more expensive than we could have had it, but also probably some unnecesary delays to Europa Orbiter -- which were then made worse by the fact that O'Keefe, due to his total lack of engineering training, fell for the cretinous JIMO scheme to fly a nuclear-powered battleship to Jupiter, even though the science community had officially stated that it didn't want it. (In this respect, as in many others, he got rolled by his unscrupulous NASA underlings; but one scientist has told me that O'Keefe's nuclear-enthusiast brother also helped talk him into it.) Now -- years later than we could have been -- we're back to Square One where Europa Orbiter is concerned. What Ed Strick says is also true: the first version of Europa Orbiter was cancelled becuase it had a $1 billion cost cap, which simply could not be met. Now NASA's new Solar System Roadmap calls for it to be the first of the new class of "Small Flagship" Solar System mission -- costing between $700 million and $ 1.5 billion -- to be launched at 5-year intervals. Europa Orbiter is recommended for launch in 2014 (and it looks more and more as though the ESA will collaborate with us on it). The second Small Flagship is likely to be to Titan in 2019, and the third to Venus in 2024. Why is it spinning? Granted, the science to be done doesn't require imaging, but you CAN do some really good science with cameras. Recall the differences in what we learned between Pioneer and Voyager, much of which was due to the fact that Voyager had a camera. How much more would it cost to build a three-axis stabilized craft? If it is spinning, are our computer processing techniques good enough to reconstruct images better than we could with Pioneer. Or can I say the magic words "scan platform".... Who will be in charge of building the small flagships? Are these going to be MRO-class missions, or more like Discovery missions to the outer planets? I'm assuming Juno will have some RTGs to play with? What does the instrumentation look like on the possible Europa orbiter? It needs a radar, and of course a camera. |
| Forum: Jupiter · Post Preview: #12550 · Replies: 121 · Views: 175019 |
| Posted on: Jun 2 2005, 05:44 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
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| Forum: New Horizons · Post Preview: #11638 · Replies: 93 · Views: 143204 |
| Posted on: Jun 1 2005, 11:03 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
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| Forum: New Horizons · Post Preview: #11587 · Replies: 93 · Views: 143204 |
| Posted on: May 29 2005, 09:51 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
MESSENGER = strained acronym. It's even worse than Hipparcos. |
| Forum: Messenger · Post Preview: #11388 · Replies: 527 · Views: 754928 |
| Posted on: May 28 2005, 02:02 PM | |
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 25-February 05 From: New Jersey Member No.: 177 |
Alan: What is the significance of the workshop mentioned in that e-mail? At the risk of being premature, what do you think the chances currently are that NH2 will get off the ground? How soon does serious work have to start in order for NH2 to be able to lift off in 2007 for the JGA to Uranus? Is it possible that these plutionium issues over at Los Alamos could make it difficult to load the RTGs? |
| Forum: New Horizons · Post Preview: #11325 · Replies: 93 · Views: 143204 |
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