Not only has extraction not been abandoned yet - but the rover, even if stuck, is a long way from dead. Quite where you got the idea the rover is dead, I don't know. Please equip yourself with some facts before making posts in the future.

That happened a long time ago - and was notated as you ask. Search for something before asking for it.

Same here.

If you want a good test - try the Pathfinder observations

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WITHOUT the benefit of hindsight - what would YOU have done?

Some of the hindsight induced backseat driving is frankly, a bit pathetic at the moment. I'm embarrassed of the place.

So you would rather they stayed here for good, than move on with, perhaps, a POSSIBLY damaged arm.

And the one before it. And the extraction FAQ sticky. And the extraction of Opportunity threads.

Nothing they're planning is anything other than a result of careful study and working the trades in extraction/resulting science ability etc.

Two points I'll throw in here. Firstly, not ALL journals charge for access. Just the other day, MC posted a link to an awesome paper about MOC, that's available at marsjournal.org - and all their papers are free to download.

Second point - if you see a paper and you really really want to read it but don't want to pay the $8 or $10 or $15 or $30 for an individual to 'order' it - hunt for the authors homepage - they may have a preprint of either the exact paper, or a similar paper from a different journal for download there, and if not email one of the authors. If you explain that you're just an interested amateur you will probably find they'll be happy to send you a copy.

Last resort- if you have a friend or relative who works in a university etc. - drop THEM an email and they may well be able to grab the PDF for you.

So yeah - most journals do charge - but if you really want to read a paper, chances are if you ask around a bit and do some leg-work - you'll be able to get a copy for nothing, and maybe that's the way it SHOULD be.

For those wondering, at some point, yes, I will be doing this

That would equate to a decrease in northerly tilt - so one would hope it's further extraction rather than putting out the winter deck-chair.

If we've learnt one thing over the years, it's that everything on Mars has to be discovered at least 6 times. Thanks for the link - I'm travelling over the next few days and something meaty to read will be a big help. The initial 1986 letter is a nice touch.

Errr - SAM has been on the MSL instrument list since day 1. Almost belongs in the bad reporting thread. It's just a cunning augmentation to that instrument.

What they thought to be the best strategy they tried first, of course. But Mars doesn't play by the rules. (We know the rules, but the rules don't know me..sort of thing). It might be something far down the list, or not yet thought of, that's the only way to get her out - if at all.

http://opfm.jpl.nasa.gov/files/Y-McAlpine-...s%20Learned.pdf - big pdf containing a flash based presentation from http://opfm.jpl.nasa.gov/europajupitersyst...umentresources/ - they talk all about it.

Most of Juno's electronics are in a titanium 'safe house' that's about 1 x 1 x 0.8m, and is something like 130kg - JUST for the box - not the electronics inside.

The 10ft x 10ft wind tunnel doesn't bother me so much - it was probably built as a 10ft x 10ft wind tunnel, like the 120ft wind tunnel at Ames - that's what it's called.

But unless it's in the form of a pseudo proper noun like that - it is utterly horrifying (as Scott suggested in marsandme a sol or so ago) that they would use these outdated units.

The submission is in Thanks to my co-nominees! Fingers crossed.

My gripe was the drawing of the parachute that was marked out in inches - without even, anywhere, saying 'inches'. Just '22.00 approx' on the width. Oh, and the well known ounces per square yard.

You're all fired. Apart from Stu and Nigel

I know James is busy as hell - if anyone else can step into the breach - literally two paragraphs saying why you think they deserve it is all I need, plus name, address, phone number. Let me know!

Make me wonder just what the genius of people like Damian Peach et.al. could do if we all lived on Mars, and Earth was just an astronomical target through 12" telescopes. I think it would be quite a lot like that image sequence. Awesome work!

I would have thought the thermal conductivity between WEB and ground would be worse than having it in 'mid air' as it were. The air is so thin, it must act like a reasonably good thermos flask.

What other elements of design are you prepared to drop to make room for that?

It's very easy to say "they should have given the rovers this..." without any consideration for how.

Doing science on the largest piece of rock for miles in any direction is not 'wasted'.

Furthermore, it has been demonstrated that prolonged stops help the FR wheel which may well fail if pushed too hard, for too long, without prolonged stops.

Which is why you posted to the forum with the headline 'Koronas-Foton returns to life!'

You should take your own advice.