I don't see how we can expect to get anywhere without highlighting just how pathetic and laughable the current situation is. That's my pence. Not to open an old wound - but the Rosetta Mars flyby issue literally reduced me to tears. There genuinely not words to describe how disgusting that situation was (and continues to be) Sometimes, the only way to come to terms with how idiotic and frankly, hurtfull, a situation is, is to laugh.

Doug

It's colour, I'm sure, but perhaps it's an un-polished anodized aluminium, thus not too shiny or bright at this illumination.

Doug

Barry mentioned that the bio barrier might just be folder over the arm at one end, but that it wouldn't be a problem at all, they can just brush past as they deploy.

Doug

A typical MER 128kbps pass is 50 - 80 Megabits. Phoenix would, I imagine, be the same. It'll be interesting to see if they decide to do really good passes at 256kbps (like MER does from time to time). With that big helical UHF antenna, I can't imagine why they wouldn't - 256k passes are usually 90-130 Mbits. (info here - http://mgsw3.jpl.nasa.gov/seq/relay/srpr/0...s00.apgen.notes )

Doug

If any of you have seen the Discovery Channel documentary about launching balloons for high altitude astronomy, you'll have seen just how difficult and dynamic launching these things is - they're an utter pig, even in the very lightest conditions. Even small balloons can start pulling VERY hard! I feel really sorry for the guy - I hope he gets another chance before too long.

Doug

In the time it took me to hit reply, two of you posted my exact thoughts

Serious enough take three weeks off work, sacrificing my holidays to go to exceptionally busy press conferences, working my fingers off, finding these people and speaking them?

I take this issue very very seriously. The state of outreach within ESA is not 'funny'. It's a joke. Not something to laugh at - something tragic. What I was describing as funny was dvandorn post. If you read my post, you will see I describe the situation at ESA as tragic and worth fighting to get changed.

That's what I'm doing. I'm fighting to get it changed. I'm taking it more seriously than you can possibly imagine. If you would rather I did something else with my time than trying to convince ESA and its partners to be a more transparent, open and public friendly agency, then let me know and I'll pull my paper from Europlanet, forget spending a week in Glasgow for IAC and just have a two weeks on the beach in Spain instead.

I'm going to move several posts from this thread into another and this is not the place for this debate.

Let me make this point that highlights the entire issue brilliantly.

One guy, sat at home, using his spare time and some free resources like blogspot, flickr etc, has produced more information, more excitement, more passion, more interest and more educational content about European space science than the whole of ESA's own science program outreach.

Ustrax's efforts are frankly astonishing. That they make ESA's outreach pale into insignificance is shocking and unacceptable. I will continue to bitch, moan, scream, cry and laugh about it - until it changes.

Doug

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEM3ZB1YUFF_0.html

" It is planned that two Mars Express instruments, the High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) and the Ultraviolet and Infrared Atmospheric Spectrometer (SPICAM), will be turned on for observations during the Phoenix EDL."

Were the images taken, were they succesfull, what do they look like if they were. Someone knows. We don't.

Doug

Yeah - I use "ESA" as probably too broad an umbrella title for the PI's of instruments not directly under the control of ESA per se. But I think the cultural difference is an across-the-pond difference. That the PI's are not held to a centralized outreach responsibility is the problem. 'ESA didn't pay for it' as their get out clause. My take on it is this, ESA did pay (and thus I paid), by bolting them onto a spacecraft and flying it to wherever it is going. As such, ESA should command from on high " You want to get on this spacecraft, you better start telling people about what you're doing, regularly, fully and quickly"

The best example of this I've found is Rosetta on the PDS. Alice data is there in full from the Earth flybys and the Mars Flyby. It's the only intrument to have put its data out.

It's good to have your thoughts though

Doug

That is just MER testing imagery as a stand-in for putting together the website.

Doug

Beautiful job Dan.


Looking at the surface, and speaking to Pete during our Marslive coverage - the surface looks very 'soft'.

Maybe ( and I'm guessing ) we'll have a fairly large layer of dust here - think about the dust falling onto the frost as it forms. As that frost goes away, it will gently drop the dust onto the surface. It'll only have half the time to be blown away during the year, and the frost forming will 'hide' dust from the wind. You know how cocoa powder sometimes barely feels like it's there - soft, fluffy, totally uncompacted. Totally unscientific guesswork, and we'll get answers soon enough I'm sure!

Doug

http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/filenames.html

First letter is S, R or O for SSI, RAC or Optical Microscope

The next S is for Surface
The next three are Sol Number ( in this case 001 )
EDN = downsampled raw
then the time, then a _ then the four digit observation code, then a single character for the observation type - leaving us with...

L1M1

M1 means MIPL, version 1

The L1 is the 'eye' and 'filter type'

http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/SSI_filter.html

Left eye - red stereo filter.

A useful tag is that for camera and filter, RA, RB and RC are right eye, RGB.

Doug

It was relevant, on topic, funny and true.

The HiRISE image was out after 17 hours. We are now nearly 36 hours after landing. ESA have not released their efforts with HRSC or Spicam, nor even passed comment on the attempt itself. This is typical ESA, this is what we predicted ESA would do, this is not funny, it's tragic. And whilst, yes, there are some ESA events that are not worth continuing to talk about, each time ESA fails to deliver in the way that it should, it IS worthy of mention. I am going to conferences and making as loud a noise as I can that ESA's outreach efforts are poor, especially on MEX and VEX, and they have been guilty in the past of claiming credit for things that are not an ESA discovery nor a world first. I will continue to fight for ESA to change that, and let people here continue to make loud noises, until something changes

The images from Phoenix were on the web before the UHF pass even finished. I'm looking at images from Saturn taken yesterday. ESA dragging its feet is not an acceptable situation and every event where that becomes more obvious is worthy of mention and criticism. If that's not your particular type of Vodka, no one is forcing to you visit or read posts here. Justified pertinent criticism of ESA's outreach efforts will continue to be a valid subject for discussion at UMSF.

That looks a LOT like an ORT test to me. Earth based testing pictures, not new imagery from Phoenix. Don't expect any new images for another 5 hours or so.

It's a possibility - it would, after all, be a long shot to get it in that 1 or 2 seconds of deployment. Idle speculation (And I've got $5 that says that far field feature is the heatshied)

Straight from NASA. There's two versions - one is too stretched.

I would say that image is very close to the chute deployment - it doesn't - to my eyes - look 100% fully deployed.

Doug

LOVING the 'odd couple' double act with Barry and Pete

It will also minimise shadowing of the arrays during the best time of day for solar power by the deployed hardware such as MET and SSI.

With it going so long on chute deploy - I'd be rather more expectant of an image of Phoenix on the ground rather than the under-the-chute image.

Doug

Forum time is BST (so 1810 right now ) - but the raw server stats will be PST.

Doug

I'll give it a day or two, and then show the build-up, and following fall off

One thing I will say - the usual number of posts per day is about 30-60. Yesterday was 267 and today, so far, is 547. Today is the busiest UMSF day ever, yesterday the 4th. Previously is was Jan 19th 2006.

Doug

This thread is for discussions AFTER the next press conf.

Doug

I pulled out a pre-launch test mosaic that Mark put onto the pre-landing blog and the SSI webpage - and then put our pieces onto it from last night - gives it all a bit of context.

Thread management is up for grabs essentially - what needs a thread can have a thread. Threads on Sols 1, 2, 3 managed to keep thread sized manageable - but as thread traffic decreases, and the variety of activities increases, this needs to change. If you see a subject that needs a thread, make it. Check there isn't one already - but then make it. We're not going to go through nearly 800 posts and re-compartmentalise them. The first three sols were always going to be a bit crazy. Early Arm ops, Early Pan imaging etc etc - each can now open up its own thread from this point on.

Heatshield having done an opportunity I think. If it were the backshell, we'd have a parachute next to it.

Doug