There's a science update tomorrow at 6pm UT - I'm wondering what that covers. Mainly Enceladus I'm sure, but the extension ( and the recent Mars issues ) may get a mention.

Doug

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6909656.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6970561.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6990813.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7137793.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7205004.stm

And of course, from Odyssey
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7205004.stm

That's the last 12 months from the BBC.

There is good science yet to come from Home Plate and the southern basin. It was a short Martian summer for Spirit. But just before that dust storm, Spirit had hit 800 Whrs and was ready to head south. The dust storm took away that chance, but, given the fact that it survived that storm, I think that it will survive this winter and can carry on to the features south of Home Plate. If it gets the chance.

From what I've heard - this is a waiting game anyway. There's likely to be some creative accounting and juggling over the next few days. Let's see where this actually ends up by the end of the week.

The thing to NOT do is lash out at one program or one mission. That doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Doug

Yup - I'd ask people to hang tight from the ranting and letter writing until we know exactly what, if anything, the public voice can do. Once we know, then we do whatever we can. But until we know what the best action is, it's best to wait.

Update : The official word is, hold tight for the next few days.

I'm writing emails to people to see what, if anything, can be done from a public voice perspective.

Not like this. Please not like this.

The one that was out of focus?



Doug

A comparatively simple orbiter doesn't make much sense for duplicating imho. We didn't need a second MRO or MGS or MEX or VEX. If you're going do do redundency, do it for the highest risk parts, or where you visit two different places in doing so ( i.e. MER put the chance to visit two sites against halving the risk of a total failure, Voyager's visited/images different parts of moons). I don't think a second MRO would give double the science value. Better planning and a greater range of spacial, temporal and wavelength of instruments with one vehicle makes more sense for an orbiter imho. If you're building two of something, make it impactors, landers, atmospheric probes of some sort - the higher risk part of the equation. i.e. Don't build two Cassini's - build one Cassini and put two Huygens on it.

And the value of the dollar doesn't really factor in. ESA wouldn't be giving NASA any cash, these things can not (and rightly so) work that way. It would cost ESA pretty much the same, in real terms, to build a spacecraft if the dollar was at 50 cents to the euro or 2 dollars to the euro.

Doug

Something tells me 'NASA turns off Mars Rover' is not a headline that's going to be acceptable. The next monday big meeting is important, lets see what comes out of that, what the options are, and then start the appropriate action if required.

Doug

A second spacecraft typically adds 50%. That was the budget breakdown for MER initially ( although budget overruns pushed that up to almost double the price of the first proposed rover )

So - for a $3B flagship - you're talking about increasing it to $4.5B minimum. That's not pocket change. We're stretching the budget to afford one flagship - to afford 1.5 is fantasy land.


Doug

"PULL OVER"

"Make me"

AstroO, official 'pimp my banner' contributor for UMSF gave me the 1500 sols ident to drop over the logo as well - I love it

Doug

I did it the dd-mm-yy way, but it says 23-08 not 23-00 (unless I've got something really wrong )

Doug

Just because I am English, don't expect me to write it properly

The matching 'chute animation. Dropped a few frames because of visibility, and on a few it wasn't actually on the swath.

Thought this was a bit of fun, all the HiRISE imagery I can find of Home Plate as a 10 frame animated gif (frame 10 = a map)

VERY obvious is the near total obscuration of the surface during one observation at the time of the dust storm.

Sharon, Byron - be warned - no wreckless driving, we're watching you

Phoenix had better work

Doug

It's true - Pathfinder was the prototype for MESUR (Mars Environmental Survey, I think) which would be a network of a dozen or so cheap landers. The network got cancelled, the prototype made it out

A Netlander type project is where I think ESA should be going instead of ExoMars imho.

Doug

When I made a little forum to talk about mosaics from MER imagery, I couldn't imagine where it would end up. For someone to post on that forum a suggestion for an image to be taken by a little spacecraft flying past Jupiter, and for that image to be taken - it's an extraordinary testament to the true spirit of exploration that we share here, and are fortunate enough to some of those involved in these robotic adventures taking place around the solar system.

To put it another way - I saw that MVIC image of Europa and Io and said "Now that, is ****ing cool"

Why?

End of : http://youtube.com/watch?v=7P2NMem2llQ





Doug

How about pure bribery. I'd pay for a Blu-Ray disc full of it. Is that an option for the future? Is the camera excluded from the pds-style release of the rest of the instruments on board?

Did they get any film footage of the Sub Sats?

What's the pipeline for the instrument - does it record and compress a movie onboard, and then it's transmitted as a single product - or are they streamed in real time? Are they a 25fps movie, or are they slower, but presented ''sped up"?

Was the vehicle in survival mode during the recent eclipse, or did they manage to use the camera during it?

D

That's not unusual - there's no traffic over and above the norm - hasn't been since the basalt-bigfoot.

Doug

No idea. Nothin unusual in terms of bandwidth, nothing unusual in terms of visitor numbers, nothing unusual on google analytics. Occasionally a search engine bot will trawl thru and as it works from multiple IP's - it can look like a lot of visitors ( currently 60ish )

Well, I know for a fact that Alice Wessen (head of Cassini outreach) has personally attended to that very task until very recently, and it's now in someone elses hands. If you've got a specific case in point, let me know and I'll pass it on.

Dave 'the navigator' Seal is working on the simulator to get it sorted. There's server shifts and recompiles involved.

Doug

There would be no UMSF, because I'd have been happily talking about B2 in the Yahoo group I formed in about Aug 2003.

Doug

Actually - the UK isn't involved in ESA's ISS program, so I didn't. There's nothing exceptional in Alan's words - it's no secret that ESA would like a manned program of its own. ATV could have feed-forward technologies for that. But can we actually afford a manned program right now? No. Is there one formally proposed? No. Is Manned spaceflight where I think ESA should be going? Without a radical increase in funding - no.


What happened to ESA's involvement in Klipper? Nothing What happened to Hermes? Nothing. Has any follow on program using ATV development been formerly announced? No. Consider me unimpressed by a set of technologies that might, if the political will is there (which it isn't), become a building block of a vehicle that may or may not ever get made by a space agency that can't really afford it.

I don't see much to get excited about over and above what the ATV is actually going to do which is - whilst not a unique ability, is a new ability to ESA. It's a fat Progress launch. That's all.

The ATV isn't going to the Moon or Mars. It's going to the ISS. Maybe - in the future, 15, 20 years from now, a vehicle that shares some technology with ATV might, just maybe, take astronauts into space in a European vehicle. But is that something to be excited about now? Any ESA vision regarding the Moon or Mars will have to be closely tied to the VSE, and with the VSE almost certain to undergo a considerable ammount of remodelling post-November, it's enormously premature to assume ESA's going to Mars or the Moon. Will it happen, eventually - hopefully. Should we be excited about it now? No - because there isn't a single Euro comitted to such a program. The first ATV doesn't mark any sort of milestone on the way to a European Mars mission.

No Euros, no Eureka.

Doug