What I was suggesting is that perhaps V1's trajectory inherantly required significantly more Delta V for..

Post launch TCM
Targetting at Jupiter
Clean up after Jupiter
Targetting for Saturn.

Didn't someone say here a while back that one of the two had an LV underperform a little?

Doug

"needed less propellant"

For what? V1 hasn't been consuming prop in an attempt to catch up. One could imagine that with 4 required targetting points, V2 would have required more prop for TCM's etc.

However - perhaps V1's trajectory was slightly less optimal than V2's and thus it required more Delta-V for targetting.

Doug

Saw a new HiRISE image up of Gusev earlier and wondered if the 'chute had moved given the strong winds.

The top of the 'chute moved between Nov-22 and Dec-12 '06, and then back again May-10 '07. I'm not sure how much is lighting and brightness/contrast within photoshop - but I think the last image, the chute is possibly dirtier than the other.

Off to hunt at Meridiani now

Doug

Saturnian and Jovians systems - They're both interesting, they're both scientifically compelling, they both offer excellent outreach potential. Essentially, the decision has to come down to personal taste and ultimately, sadly, money.

Doug

I thought about adding Ulysses - but in terms of the science people are talking about here, I thought it would ignore it.

Doug

That's a nice bit of rover donut that'll be visible from HiRISE

Doug

If you can give me res and coverage....do it. The only thing I'd not like is the Rangers - who go from a res of about a squillion m/pixel to a squillionth of an m/pixel. I don't think the Apollo Sub-Sat in A15 and 16 carried cameras thoough.



Doug

Doesn't matter what time you take the picture - it still looks like a mans face

Doug

I don't know if the ESOC team and the OSIRIS guys heard what we were saying after the Mars flyby - but they have just turned things around in 9 months. The blog, the kodak moment images - I'm proud of my space agency right now, and that's a fairly unique thing for a European.

Maybe Uwe heard us Stu?

Doug

Thanks for that Mike - not sure where I got that figure from - I do remember umming and arrring over it for some reason.

Post-Voyager score (if you include Juno)

Jupiter. Two orbiters, One probe, Two flypasts
Saturn. One orbiter, One lander.

If you ask me, Saturn's owed an orbiter and some flypasts - another mission to the Jovian system really WOULD be queue jumping.

Like I said - just throwing in a vote for somewhere else. I'd pick Titan over any of the other suggestions. An ideal world, we'd do all of them, but if I had to pick one, just to me, Titan seems the most exciting, interesting and intriguing.

Doug

Just to totally screw things - I'd rather we went back to Titan than any of the Jovians...but maybe that's just me

Doug

There's corporate sponsorship and then there's corporate sponsorship. It's short sighted to automatically assume it's a good thing in every situation.

In this situation, we have some awesome high res stills, some awesome low res movies, and then if you look hard enough, DIVX's of the high res footage as well. Eventually, I'm sure, the footage will creap out at good quality. I don't have an HDTV, I don't intend getting an HDTV for a few years, so if all they're going to do is broadcast it on Discovery HD - I'm not going to see it. Kaguya is happening now - they should be sharing that awesome footage with everyone now as well. I'm hoping to do a new talk based on this Lunar Flotilla that's setting out, but to not have this awesome footage to show to people, knowing it's sat on HDD's somewhere, that's frustrating beyond belief.

If a commercial operation want's to do this sort of stuff on a governmental vehicle, then it needs to do it with entirely good intentions. Put your name on it, copyright it, use it for advertising...but keep it to yourself? My feet are in the 'for all mankind' camp rather than the 'for all our shareholders' camp I'm afraid.

Doug

Well - to assume this is a commercialisation issue is to make assumptions about the camera, its funding, its contribution to the spacecraft as a whole and what the reasoning behind the decision is.

If a corporation funds an instrument, but releases half a dozen stills and a 1/5th res movie....then you have to wonder what the point is in sending the full res camera in the first place? Clearly in this instance, commercialisation and popularisation are at odds with one another.

Doug

I assume Ralph et.al. are still working on theirs.

Doug

I have a DIVX of one of them already. It's neive to imagine they won't get online quickly. The grim reality of it is this - if JAXA don't release it via the web on their own terms, in top notch quality - then it will end up being distributed as dodgy quality DIV-X's without people being particularly aware of where it's come from and how. They've missed a trick there. We've had some cool stills, and some cool low res movies - perhaps lots of Yen are involved in some way - but it's a fairly short sighted way of doing things.

Doug

Should that target be a specific body, or a specifc set of scientific goals?

Doug

Wow. You would think after attending to two spacecraft, 24/7, 15 times longer than expected, for 6+ years (including ATLO) people might allow them a little room. There are missions and instruments that deserve a poke in terms of PR. This isn't one.

Doug

I'm a Brit, so I'm 5hrs ahead. Infact, I feel a cup of tea coming on.

I'm reminded of something from 'The Last Lecture of Randy Pausch' - he said people ask him what his secret is to being so succesfull - his reply 'Call me in my office any Friday night at 10 O'clock and I'll tell you'


Doug

When do you sleep!! Thanks, as ever, for the update - much appreciated.

You could make those same arguments regarding the uniqueness of Europa with just about any other body in the solar system. You can make it about Io, Enceladus and Titan in this context without any exaggeration.

Doug

Just to repeat - if you know of any blanks ( or any restrospective imaging instruments ) that can be filled in - post them and I'll add them

Doug

We've got two more cratering experiments due before Kaguya, Chang'e 1, LRO and Chandaraan 1 will be anywhere near end of life. I'm hoping that they go for barn-storming low-altitude science instead of crashing them into polar crater

Ahh - got it !

http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000205/