Now that's cunning - and even though the data would suggest otherwise - I'm still tempted to use a simultaneous release just because we then know we've got n 2 or 3 frame panoramas. What do your sims say for two cameras in portrait, two in landscape, three in portrait, three in landscape with say, 10% FOV overlap?

I've had another idea for a self monitoring camera which could be cool....got to wait till I have the gondola boxes and a few cheap digi cams

Doug

They do look quite vuggy don't they. Vuggy's a real word, right?

Doug

The envelope itself is arguably the easy part. Buy it - fill it - launch it. They're a commercially available part that doesn't need that much thinking about.

The stats are here : http://www.kaymont.com/pages/sounding-balloons.cfm : you over fill compared to those stats slightly - and get a better lifting capacity - but you reduce your ceiling as a result.

Oh - and the chances of flying me on something like that to 14km.....slim....unlike me

Doug

For stereo to work - you either have to have a very long baseline within one payload ( which is a near impossibility given the limitations of size and mass ) - or two simultaneous balloons pointing in the same place, at the same time, at the same altitude ( a near impossibility given the limitations of chaos).

Clouds are usually fuzzy, roughly defined, dynamic objects - I can't imagine that getting stereo imagery of them would be particularly valuable anyway. They're not like a rock. If someone can explain to me how it could be done and why it should be done, then why not....but I struggle to see a means or a purpose at the moment.

You are right however - the first launch ( and indeed I would have thought the first few launches ) are intentionally simple and as far as possible, with redundant systems. i.e VHF GPS, and GPRS/SMS GPS, GMC and onboard cameras etc etc.

And I've got to get a Radio license

Doug

Discovered the FM transmitter may be a no-no in the UK

OO - no - 144.800 is good for APRS in the UK Sweet.

Grrrrrrrr

The problem isn't a million miles from MER terminal decent. It's not chute-backshell-lander but it's envelope-chute-gondola.

I'm reminded of this : http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=1449

The science data is, however, public domain after that 6 month period. Not copyright can or is held over it. Where a copyright CAN be held is over an 'original work' - which any mosaic can technically be said to be.

Doug

I was having similar thoughts, how controlled can we have the rotation (up the hill or down) - because looking at other similar projects, the imagery seems very very chaotic.

Doug

Status update :

Proposal :
<2kg payload - on the order of 20 x 20 x 30 cm external + extras.
VHF APRS GPS for realtime tracking
Multiple internal cameras for mosaicing Horizon-to-Nadir view
External camera on independant power supply using WAM or Fisheye lens for self portraiture
Standalone system for tracking via SMS / GPRS

On order:
36 inch chute ( suitable for up to 2kg )
Microtrack 300, GPS and VHF antenna.
10 x (cheap lot off Ebay) 31x21x24cm external, 26x16x17cm internal polystyrene boxes
Wide angle mirrors ( circular and rectangular )
Literature study so I can pass the Fundamental radio licence course to allow broadcast by the Microtrack.

On offer:
Independance Backup System from Helvick in form of Smartphone with camera and GPS

Investigating:
Balloon
Gas (both kind of important)
Power supply
Groundstation
Gondola cameras - powershots with intervalometer, or other cameras with a shutter-release via a timing circuit. Will multiple cameras carry keep their intervalometers in sync if set off together - or will a timing circuit be needed - and if so, is it worth tying that into the GMC (even though I said I wanted that to be independent)


Future options for later flights:
Data logging of GPS Lat/Long/Alt, Pres, Temp, Accel ( nice science to tie in to Huygens with accel data) other params.

No - I don't agree they should eliminate the compression. That's the point of them - they're quick-look, rough and ready imagery. There SHOULD be a difference between this stuff and the calibrated product that is used internally. No legal moratorium, just nice JPG's with some RAD IMG's 6 months later. It's a system that works and in some ways is self policing.

Just flat fielded JPG's is more than we could possibly expect and would be a massive improvement - so all kudos to Jim for trying to get that done.

Tens of thousands of met balloons have gone to 100k+ without any trouble of that nature - as well as probably dozens of amateur projects. They all use polystyrene or similar materials.
oug

Thanks for the heads up on that - great stuff!

Doug

And the final one.

A bit of a Phil on on of my pans

Final set. I've got two big pans I took as well which I'll throw into the mix. This stuff is all volcanic, from an extinct volcano about 4 miles away.

That one's been done as well. iirc - NH is going to keep slowing down so that it will never overtake V1.

Doug

Third batch - the pancam one is slighty fuzzy, it's actually blown up slightly because I didn't realise that at 70mm, my lens was a slightly narrower FOV than Pancam (vertically) and thus I had to crop out from the wide angle shot which is about 60% the resolving power of Pancam.

Second batch

Following on from the descoping of Mastcam's zoom - I thought I would see just how much of a loss that might be - and went up to some local geology to take some photos from which I could generate simulated images of the various cameras.

I've got a few sets - and in turn I'll attach
Navcam
Mastcam Wide Angle
Pancam of Horizon
Mastcam Zoomed of Horizon
Pancam of ground rocks
Mastcam Zoomed of ground Rocks.

I've done two zooms in the first - the other are just one zoomed area with Pancam/Mastcam

Plus -two of everything to buy (and in this case, there are not any savings) - double the ground-station equipment to acquire - double the number of people.

Lovely idea - but think of this more of Ranger rather than Mariner ( consecutive, not simultaneous )

Doug

We had the same argument last time around, and allowing for the fact that we've got two of them three weeks apart, the pace of international postage - I sent them nice and early. It's more a birthday 'season' than a day

Doug

I think it just lets you interface with other formats more easily (import and export 3DS etc ), and do pretty plans. As it is - GSU (£free) is making me hate 3ds max (£thousands) for lacking the annotation tool.

Just a bit of fun using Google Sketchup. Never used it until about an hour ago, it's amazing!

The GMC is somethign I already have. It's a £20 digital camera that takes 1280 x 1024 images at pre-determined intervals. It runs from a single AAA. The Convex Mirror would be the sort you can get to stick on your car side mirror to see blind spots. Having the GMC as a stand alone component is a good move for redundency. I want to see if I can make the GMCSA from what was 'cat cam' - some foam, a mirror ,and then put it in the freezer to see how long it can last.

I got some foam insulation yesterday - and it's too thick really - 50mm thick which is a bit crazy. The thermal properties are amazing, just leaning up againt it you feel hot after 5 seconds because it's not letting heat get away, it's bizarre.

Anyway - if anyone wants the GSU file - let me know

I'm still aiming for something like 10 x 10 x 15-20 internal space - and then if the foam is a few cm thick, you can always carve into it a little.

Weather permitting, I'll be going to Cambridge next Sunday to see a launch by James - http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/ -

The accumulated small forces involved in thrust firings to 3-axis stablise the Voyagers renders them unsuitable for studying the Pioneer anom.