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Unmanned Spaceflight.com > All posts by a member| Posted on: Aug 25 2006, 12:11 PM | |
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Founder  Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 
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QUOTE (Jyril @ Aug 25 2006, 01:00 PM)  According to them, all the eight planets have cleared their neighborhoods, Complete BULL. I'd have thought SL9 or Tunguska would have reminded us all that clearing is an ongoing process for every 'planet' in the solar system. Their definition is very very very badly written. Take out the 'cleared' tag, and you make it just about acceptable. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65677 · Replies: 122 · Views: 130173 |
| Posted on: Aug 25 2006, 10:12 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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Truth be told - I think we should be fighting for Ceres. It's a planet - it's a world - it's round, it's got features. Just because it lives with a few friends...it's not a planet? Thats stupid!! A cow is a cow if it's in a field....or in a field with 20 goats.  Doug (PS - Dilo - no, I thought I did get what you meant with your neigborhood comment, but clearly I have it wrong. There is no part of the solar system that can be considered a clean neigbourhood ) |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65663 · Replies: 122 · Views: 130173 |
| Posted on: Aug 25 2006, 08:49 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE (dilo @ Aug 25 2006, 09:16 AM) NEO and trojans are less than 1/1000 the size of Earth and Jupiter, respectively! Dust is 1/1,000,000,000ths the size of my office - but I wouldn't say my office is clean Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65654 · Replies: 122 · Views: 130173 |
| Posted on: Aug 25 2006, 08:16 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE
imho - that's bull. NH is going to study Pluto, Charon and their two small moons. Pluto is still a Pluto. It's not changed. The mission has not changed. The body it's going to visit remains a member of the same family of bodies it always has. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65647 · Replies: 454 · Views: 265030 |
| Posted on: Aug 25 2006, 08:13 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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Always pronounced it like doll Doug |
| Forum: Mars · Post Preview: #65644 · Replies: 28 · Views: 39512 |
| Posted on: Aug 25 2006, 08:11 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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The classification of Pluto as non-planetary doesnt bother THAT much....I'd rather it WERE a planet...however.. What bothers me is the crap defintion "clear its neigborhood" - that's utter nonsense, NO planet has cleared its neigborhood. It renders the entire planetary description as pointless as nothing has a clear neigbourhood in this solarsystem - so as of now, I believe we have NO planets. Sod fighting for pluto....we're fighting for EARTH, Jupiter...ALL OF THEM. Seriously - take out the 'neigborhood' clause - and I'm happy. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65642 · Replies: 122 · Views: 130173 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 06:57 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Aug 24 2006, 07:47 PM) I predict that popular culture will continue to speak of "the nine planets" and the "planet Pluto". I know I will. That - or accept a set of definitions that technically remove planetary status from just about every planet in the solar system. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65529 · Replies: 167 · Views: 179861 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 04:24 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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B)--> QUOTE(Toma B @ Aug 24 2006, 05:18 PM) .because when Pluto was discovered it was thought it is 6000 km in diameter, and that would be a planet! [/quote] No it wouldn't.....it's neighbourhood would not be cleared so it wouldn't be a planet. Unfortuantely, the same is true of almost every 'planet' in our solar system...so this definition has written of most of the planets we have. I'm unsure of how many Venus and Mercury crossing asteroids there are...but at the moment I think we've got about 3 planets by this definition. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65504 · Replies: 167 · Views: 179861 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 04:23 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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They'll get out of Aerobraking.....get the proper orbit sorted...and then they'll be in conjunction so we won't get anything till about MER Sol 1000+ DOug |
| Forum: MRO 2005 · Post Preview: #65502 · Replies: 95 · Views: 95904 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 04:02 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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With the number of NEO's and Earth crossing ateroids, Earth certainly hasn't cleared it's neigbourhood. SL9 tells us that Jupiter is still doing the job of clearing it's Neigbourhood. And the existance of Pluto tells us that Neptune's not finished either. As Levy put it so well, SL9 reminded us that at the edge of the solar system is a large sign marked "Warning - Solar System under construction"...NOWHERE has a 'clear neighbourhood" at this time. The 'neighbourhood' clause in the current description is the worst thought out description I've ever seen. Utterly shocking. They had a change to finally get this right....and they screwed it up. Alan's right - "I'm embarassed for astronomy....it's a farce" I agree on both points. Perhaps what the IAU have done, by using the Neigbourhood clause is actually, eliminate the term planet all together as one could aruge that none of them have finished clearing their back yards. Cunning eh Doug |
| Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #65492 · Replies: 28 · Views: 30462 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 03:48 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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Oh - I wouldn't be suprisied to see an Endurance like treatment of the place...get VERY long baseline...600m or so. A pan from where we first arrive, and another one from 120 degrees around the crater to be sure of getting good imagery of all sides of the interior. Who knows - perhaps take a couple of months to do 240 degrees around the place, get three pans done, and then think about coming in from the western edge - or drive the full 360 and come back in from the North. We know the surrounding terrain to be very navigable after all Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65483 · Replies: 702 · Views: 371529 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 03:45 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Aug 24 2006, 04:37 PM) This discussion could be a good way of letting the general public see some of the behind the scenes workings of science. This isn't science though. We have not measured the composition of anything, nor have we found something new. We've not measured an albedo, taken a spectra, imaged an occultation......it's just administration. And to be honest, given that 2 weeks ago we had 9 planets, 1 week ago we had 12 or more, and now we have only 8.....it's made the scientists involved looked more than a little silly. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65481 · Replies: 167 · Views: 179861 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 03:30 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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918's not a driver, but I imagine 919 will be. Two big drive sols...I think a rest sol is justified, recharge...downlink - always a good idea. I'd really really like to see a single L456 of the tracks heading NNW from here....I guess one albedo frame may get them in - but they're downsampled anyway  Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65471 · Replies: 702 · Views: 371529 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 02:31 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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Why would this affect NH in any way, shape or form. Pluto is still Pluto. Still fascinating, still unexplored, still part of a collection of bodies that we need to learn about. The silly thing about this entire episode is that it's making the news......but no one has learnt anything, no one has discovered anything, nothing has changed. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65447 · Replies: 167 · Views: 179861 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 02:08 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE (Holder of the Two Leashes @ Aug 24 2006, 02:56 PM) The only significate out of roundness of such a defined planet would be due entirely to rotational forces or tidal ones, its shape still determined by hydrostatics. Define significant. One could argue that the depths of the Pacific trenches to the peaks of the Himalaya would classify the Earth as significantly non-round. At some point you have to put a measurable factor into when something is no longer round. Is Phobos round? Mars? Olympus Mons + Valles Marineris makes mars quite un-round. I understand that the shape is determined by it's own gravity - that's fine....but you have to put down a marker to say at what point that shape is round. QUOTE If the moon Titan were ejected somehow from the Saturn system, and continued to orbit the sun, we would no longer be calling it a moon, and would most likely be calling it a planet. That's a good point. So Luna, Titan, the Galileo 4....should all be planets? Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65438 · Replies: 454 · Views: 265030 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 02:00 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jul 22 2006, 04:26 AM) Pluto seems to be the only one of the bodies in its little system which exhibits comet-like behavior. One possibility is that whilst they DO exhibit comet like behaviour, the symptoms of that are so small that they are below the detection threshold with current techniques. Doug |
| Forum: New Horizons · Post Preview: #65433 · Replies: 1628 · Views: 1114232 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 01:31 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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Here's the big problem There is, for whatever reason, a need to classify what is and isn't a planet. There is a body of support to ensure that Pluto remains within that group. However - any scientific set of rules that dictate Pluto is a planet will innevitably lead to the number of planets reach double figures and far beyond over the next few years - and that would dilute the 'power' of the title 'planet' The body of public support which would like Pluto to be a planet is self defeating in that regard. ANY definition requires, at some juncture, numerical limits. If you say 'if it's round' - how round is round? A radius that varies by less than 10% from the average? At some point you'd have to have a cut off between round and not round, and that seems quite arbritrary to me. If two bodys orbit around a point outside the surface of the parent body, then the moon becomes a planet. That's not helpefull as moons can move. Charon could be a moon were its orbit a little different, and our moon could be a planet in a few billion years. Again - that can not be right because a cow is a cow regardless of WHERE it is. It doesnt stop being a cow and turn into a goat if you put it in a barn. There seems a reluctance to extend the title planet to things beyond Pluto, as if they don't 'belong' there. A cow is a cow if it's in a field or on a pavement...and that rule should apply to a planet. I'm quickly reaching the conclusion that NO set of rules will EVER be acceptable to a majority...there is too much culture, too much fondness and too much historical influence to ever make a decision that sticks. Doug |
| Forum: Pluto / KBO · Post Preview: #65423 · Replies: 454 · Views: 265030 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 01:12 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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I''d have thought they would always schedule conservatively for aerobraking, and then just be a little more agressive if the opportunity presented itself given experience of early aerobraking passes. Doug |
| Forum: MRO 2005 · Post Preview: #65419 · Replies: 95 · Views: 95904 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 12:51 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65417 · Replies: 3597 · Views: 3532050 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 09:28 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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QUOTE (Bobby @ Aug 24 2006, 10:09 AM) Which object as we see it is Beacon You won't get a straight answer to that. It's near impossible to tell. People will be for ever saying "no no, I meant THAT pixel 100 sols ago...not THAT pixel". I warned you all that the debate would stop being 'is that near or far rim' and change into 'but we were not looking at THAT we were looking at THIS'  Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65401 · Replies: 238 · Views: 148986 |
| Posted on: Aug 24 2006, 09:26 AM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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My fav glogger to date - I must admit. But I'm loath to pass judgement on the 4 so far...because I'm ever aware that I'm only 5 weeks away. Doug |
| Forum: Forum News · Post Preview: #65400 · Replies: 82 · Views: 119844 |
| Posted on: Aug 23 2006, 10:07 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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L2/R2 have always compressed badly when JPG'd...not sure why, that's the way it's always been. We're also looking at a low contrast scene with Navcam - not the variety of rocks and soils that we have at Gusev, and so they're getting quite badly stretched when put on line. Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65339 · Replies: 702 · Views: 371529 |
| Posted on: Aug 23 2006, 09:15 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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Bit of a 'glyph. Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65333 · Replies: 702 · Views: 371529 |
| Posted on: Aug 23 2006, 05:57 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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It's low at the moment anyway - and it can depend what dish is availale. We're one 70m dish down as it is, so from time to time the bandwidth will have to be dropped even further.... CODE 377 MRB_ODY_DOY228_ 2 06-228/08:11:21.0 06-228/08:28:02.0 bit_rate = 14220 378 MRB_ODY_DOY228_ 3 06-228/19:03:23.0 06-228/19:18:35.0 bit_rate = 3950 379 MRB_ODY_DOY228_ 4 06-228/21:01:06.0 06-228/21:15:37.0 bit_rate = 3950 380 MRB_ODY_DOY229_ 1 06-229/07:54:25.0 06-229/08:11:31.0 bit_rate = 39816 381 MRB_ODY_DOY229_ 3 06-229/20:42:58.0 06-229/21:00:23.0 bit_rate = 14220 382 MRB_ODY_DOY230_ 2 06-230/09:35:29.0 06-230/09:51:54.0 bit_rate = 14220 383 MRB_ODY_DOY230_ 3 06-230/20:27:10.0 06-230/20:42:47.0 bit_rate = 14220 384 MRB_ODY_DOY230_ 4 06-230/22:25:21.0 06-230/22:39:21.0 bit_rate = 14220 385 MRB_ODY_DOY231_ 1 06-231/09:18:21.0 06-231/09:35:34.0 bit_rate = 14220 386 MRB_ODY_DOY231_ 4 06-231/22:07:00.0 06-231/22:24:23.0 bit_rate = 14220 387 MRB_ODY_DOY232_ 1 06-232/09:03:48.0 06-232/09:16:51.0 bit_rate = 39816 388 MRB_ODY_DOY232_ 2 06-232/10:59:38.0 06-232/11:15:45.0 bit_rate = 39816 389 MRB_ODY_DOY232_ 3 06-232/21:50:58.0 06-232/22:06:57.0 bit_rate = 14220 390 MRB_ODY_DOY232_ 4 06-232/23:49:37.0 06-233/00:03:02.0 bit_rate = 14220 391 MRB_ODY_DOY233_ 1 06-233/10:42:17.0 06-233/10:59:36.0 bit_rate = 14220 392 MRB_ODY_DOY233_ 4 06-233/23:31:01.0 06-233/23:48:19.0 bit_rate = 3950 393 MRB_ODY_DOY234_ 1 06-234/10:27:27.0 06-234/10:41:08.0 bit_rate = 14220 394 MRB_ODY_DOY234_ 2 06-234/12:23:46.0 06-234/12:39:32.0 bit_rate = 14220 395 MRB_ODY_DOY234_ 3 06-234/23:14:47.0 06-234/23:31:05.0 bit_rate = 14220 396 MRB_ODY_DOY235_ 2 06-235/12:06:13.0 06-235/12:23:35.0 bit_rate = 3950 311 MRA_ODY_DOY236_ 1 06-236/00:02:12.0 06-236/00:19:00.0 bit_rate = 14220 312 MRA_ODY_DOY236_ 3 06-236/12:42:26.0 06-236/12:59:42.0 bit_rate = 39816 313 MRA_ODY_DOY237_ 1 06-237/01:43:06.0 06-237/01:59:33.0 bit_rate = 14220 314 MRA_ODY_DOY237_ 2 06-237/12:27:03.0 06-237/12:41:12.0 bit_rate = 14220 315 MRA_ODY_DOY237_ 3 06-237/14:23:52.0 06-237/14:39:25.0 bit_rate = 14220 316 MRA_ODY_DOY238_ 1 06-238/01:26:04.0 06-238/01:43:01.0 bit_rate = 3950 Today is 235 - with a single 256k UHF pass of an estimated max 133 Mbits, it'll take a LOT of time to come down at 14k, let alone 4k! (100Mbit at 14k is 2 hrs ) Doug Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65311 · Replies: 702 · Views: 371529 |
| Posted on: Aug 23 2006, 05:50 PM | |
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1
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The Odyssey bit rate is very poor today - so don't worry. It'll take a few hours for the stuff to get through the pipeline. Doug |
| Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #65309 · Replies: 702 · Views: 371529 |
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