IPB
X   Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

462 Pages V  « < 314 315 316 317 318 > » 

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 04:59 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE (RGClark @ Mar 29 2006, 04:07 PM) *
The evidence from the instruments on the orbiters for frost/ice deposition even at near equatorial latitudes is overwhelming.


Really? Hydrogen, yes - but one can only infer that to be ice. Phoenix should help us there and indeed it probably IS ice making up the percentage mass that those maps show us - but that doesnt actually provide evidence for the surface liquid water your claim there to be any more than the frost inside my freezer proves that there is a cup of liquid water sat in it.

QUOTE
Furthemore this frost has been actually seen by the Opportunity landers.


Yes - 3 hrs later it was gone, leaving no trace of ever having existed. It didnt form puddles on the rover, it sublimed back into the atmosphere. It really doesnt provide anything for your case.

QUOTE
To be precise I'm predicting such ponds will be seen during the period such low, dense fogs are seen over these near equatorial locations.

Through the fog? Are you predicting open water will. Given that the atmosphere is 100% humid as it is, one presumes that these ponds would struggle to evaporate away, so what would your prediction on how these form, their logevity, and how they vanish - and how do you side your prediction of only very small ponds ( fortuitously unobserveable with any instrument to date ) and nothing larger that would have been detected by one of the 3 spacecraft currently studying the planet.

QUOTE
What revolutionary improvement over the discovery of possibly currently forming gullies by MGS would you predict for MRO?


I wouldnt be so bold as to predict what might be 'discovered'. That's the whole basis of discovery - you discover things. Perhaps there are short lived outbursts of water causing these features. Perhaps they're caused by landslides, perhaps they're something we don't even know yet. And hopefully, MRO will get a good high res view of these and we'll be able to see what might cause them with a little more details. There's still an open virdict on the origin of them as it is
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060321_mars_water.html
http://spacenews.dancebeat.info/article.ph...m-without-water

I'd like to see your MGS MOC obs of ponds ( and I know that sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to be ) - because I'm fairly sure that if there were such obvious evidence of ponds on the surface of Mars - something would have been announced.

Like I said earlier - I'm not overse to the idea of surface liquid water on Mars, it would make it a more attractive place for exploration, but to date we have no evidence of it.

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #48215 · Replies: 260 · Views: 197466

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 03:49 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


wow - reminds me of this
http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/GPN-2003-00060.jpg

Doug
  Forum: Jupiter · Post Preview: #48199 · Replies: 52 · Views: 58541

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 02:10 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Insert 'still not out anywhere in the UK' rant here.


Doug ph34r.gif
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #48182 · Replies: 175 · Views: 198975

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 02:03 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Attached - movie of Meteosat 7 Visible imagery during the eclipse, and I'm awaiting the MODIS imagery from Aqua and Terra smile.gif

Doug
  Forum: Sun · Post Preview: #48181 · Replies: 17 · Views: 61709

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 01:27 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Good grief, one high-slip drive, and people are calling it the end of Spirit - for all we know there may have been some cunning engineering exercise going on.

I'd have thought after nearly 800 sols, we'd have all learnt to be a bit more patient than that.

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #48177 · Replies: 260 · Views: 197466

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 11:17 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


At 13:45:38 Mars local solar ? Not a chance. Remember the frost that Opportunity had - it vanished within hours of sunrise. It's a bad image stretch - that's just dust that's being bright.

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #48160 · Replies: 47 · Views: 58239

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 08:45 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Of course, there's always that problem of not being able to fold a piece of paper more than X times smile.gif

Doug
  Forum: Jupiter · Post Preview: #48156 · Replies: 19 · Views: 25628

djellison
Posted on: Mar 29 2006, 08:44 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE (RGClark @ Mar 27 2006, 05:26 PM) *
As for ponds, I'm going to make a prediction that MRO will find small ponds located on Mars, oases if you will. These will be analogous to Don Juan pond in Antarctica.


Of course, the genius of that argument is that you can always say "well - it's not found them YET...but it will" for about 10 years smile.gif They'd have to be very very very small ponds to be visible with HiRISE but not with MOC, and MOC's been looking at Mars for nearly a decade.

Someone elsehwere has branded me as being 'anti' water. ( and I know they're reading - why not join in and make your case? ) and that's simply untrue. Think of the astonishing implications w.r.t astrobiology if we were to find liquid water on the surfafe of Mars. The impact would be huge, and it would be brilliant for exploration. Why would anyone so enthusiastic about space exploration as I be opposed to such a thing?

However - I'm pro-evidence - and I'm yet to see any evidence of water here.

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #48155 · Replies: 260 · Views: 197466

djellison
Posted on: Mar 28 2006, 08:35 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


But it does take time and money to write, test, re test etc etc.

Doug
  Forum: Mars Express & Beagle 2 · Post Preview: #48088 · Replies: 26 · Views: 29480

djellison
Posted on: Mar 28 2006, 04:09 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Do you not think that if the descent profile were so very very far from nominal, they would have said so - if for no other reason than to say "look how different it was to what we expected, and it STILL worked great"

Anyway - the data is due into the PDS in a few months as I understand it - we can have fun then smile.gif

Doug
  Forum: Titan · Post Preview: #48025 · Replies: 39 · Views: 36899

djellison
Posted on: Mar 28 2006, 02:17 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


I'll try and hunt for all the usual orbital imagery of this as it happens ( Modis on Aqua and Terra, Meteosat etc )

Doug
  Forum: Chit Chat · Post Preview: #48005 · Replies: 27 · Views: 25938

djellison
Posted on: Mar 28 2006, 01:35 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


I believe earlier Ariane (Up to Ariane 4 even ) vehicles ued something similar - it looked like the thing was buckling in the middle. I'm assuming the earlier Ariane family was a derivative of the Diamant family.

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/launch...riane403950.jpg
http://mek.kosmo.cz/nosice/esa/ariane/arv99.jpg

Doug
  Forum: Private Missions · Post Preview: #47996 · Replies: 511 · Views: 310795

djellison
Posted on: Mar 28 2006, 11:35 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Did someone do a chart that plotted distance covered vs sol?

Doug
  Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #47975 · Replies: 1472 · Views: 708277

djellison
Posted on: Mar 28 2006, 09:35 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE
Sol 762 (March 16, 2006): Opportunity started the sol in front of a long, flat trough and was able to drive just over 53 meters (174 feet) along this path.

Sol 763: The rover conducted atmospheric science and cloud observations.

Sol 764: Opportunity conducted targeted remote sensing, including panoramic camera images of "Red River Station" and "Kingfisher." It examined "Rush Springs" and "Red River Station" with the miniature thermal emission spectrometer. It also filmed three cloud movies at various times of day and did some other atmospheric science.

Sol 765: The rover drove 48.5 meters (159 feet), first over a small ripple, then down a trough to a patch of outcrop.

Sol 766: The rover drove 34.6 meters (114 feet), first down a trough, then crossing a few small ripples.

Sol 767: Opportunity drove approximately 44 meters (144 feet) over a few small ripples. Since there was no outcrop along the day's drive path, the team used more frequent slip checks. Before the drive, Opportunity acquired panoramic camera images of some nearby outcrop.

Sol 768: The Odyssey orbiter went into safe mode before Opportunity's afternoon UHF relay pass, so the team didn't have any information on how the rover performed on sol 767. For sol 768 the team planned a 70-minute direct-to-Earth communication session. Mars is getting farther from Earth, and even with a Deep Space Network dish antenna 34 meters (112 feet) in diameter, the slow downlink rate yielded only 6 megabits of data. However, this was enough to indicate that the planned activities on sol 767, including the drive, had been completed successfully.

Sol 769: Odyssey was still recovering from safe mode. Since the UHF downlink capability was unavailable, the planned activities for Opportunity for the day were only to collect two tau readings. (Tau is a measure of atmospheric opacity. Determining it requires very little data volume.) The rover did not use the deep-sleep mode.

Sol 770 (March 24, 2006): The sol's activities were planned knowing that the day could be the earliest that the rovers might regain communication-relay support from Odyssey. The team is planned several tau observations and a scan of sky and ground by the miniature thermal emission spectrometer. Opportunity did use the deep sleep mode.

Total odometry as of sol 768 (March 22, 2006): 6,908 meters (4.29 miles)


170+ m in that lot - not bad at all

Doug
  Forum: Opportunity · Post Preview: #47970 · Replies: 1472 · Views: 708277

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 09:45 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE (Pertinax @ Mar 27 2006, 09:21 PM) *
Looking back in time a little bit: Has there been any sucess in creating an aprox. true color image of Spirit Sol 675's Phobos eclipse while Phobos was in Mars' umbra? If so, anything that can be shared at present?

-- Pertinax


As I understand it - that imagery was just a movie in a single filter (L1), and even if it wasnt - then the subject of interest would have moved quite a lot between frames. If you've got another specific observation in mind thought, flag it up and I'll take a look and mention it - chances are if they're worked on it, then Jim will probably be able to share something.

Doug
  Forum: Forum News · Post Preview: #47923 · Replies: 82 · Views: 119793

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 09:14 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


Far too pessimistic, but that's the modern journalistic way unfortunately - no story without criticism. He has some valid points but in some places he's just, well, wrong. Point C is no more valid than for Sea Launch for example, or even Kodiak, Point A is true of any launch facility, they're all ultra high security places, and they WANTED to launch from Vandenberg for their first launch but were forced to move it out to the Atoll. Furthermore, they were already addressing the LOX issue before this launch. It's almost as if Bell's never read the SpaceX news pages or the launch blog.

Doug
  Forum: Private Missions · Post Preview: #47910 · Replies: 511 · Views: 310795

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 07:39 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


I think it's just a case of making a little xml file that refers to the new MP3 - given that I've already given TPS (well, Emily) more work in asking them to host them - I'll see if I can figure this one out myself.

As I understand it so far - basically I have to make an XML file that describes the MP3 - catagorises it - links to it - blah blah - then submit that XML file to iTunes for submission. That I can do all on my own - and host here ( it'll be TINY) then people can subscribe with iTunes or any other Podcast subscription software and grab it that way.

Doug
  Forum: Forum News · Post Preview: #47869 · Replies: 6 · Views: 13873

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 07:38 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


I asked about this very data set a few weeks ago, this is the reply I got...

QUOTE
There is hope that a MER EDL 'science data set' will be delivered to PDS, but to date no such delivery has occurred.

The science profiles that were derived shortly after landing were internal MER project products which were intended to assess the validity of the atmospheric structure models against which the EDL process was defined. This was especially valuable for the 2nd landing. Those 'internal products' have not been delivered to the PDS as 'science' data.

There are some ongoing efforts to produce the derived science profiles and deliver those to PDS. [Why these different pathways must be followed to generate a data set rather than taking what was done previously by the mission is still unclear to me.]

I hope that within 6 months or so we will have the derived temperature, pressure, and density profiles.


Doug
  Forum: Exploration Strategy · Post Preview: #47868 · Replies: 4 · Views: 9732

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 07:36 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


GET IN smile.gif

Doug
  Forum: Cometary and Asteroid Missions · Post Preview: #47867 · Replies: 248 · Views: 189779

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 03:27 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


We know the ice exists all over the planet - GRS telles us that, in quantites from not a lot - to huge ammounts.

What you are saying is that this regularly becomes liquid.

Where are the lakes, rivers, ponds, bogs, mud slides, streams?

If sub-surface water were becoming liquid regularly, then where is it? Where did it come from? What's pushing it to the surface?

You're trying to impose vast quantites of 'if' 'might' and 'may' onto some dragged tracks that look, at first glance with earth-bound eyes, a bit like mud.

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Mar 27 2006, 03:21 PM) *
Evidence, please.


Exactly.

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #47829 · Replies: 260 · Views: 197466

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 02:26 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE (RGClark @ Mar 27 2006, 01:52 PM) *
additional heat produced by the dragging


I still maintain you're arguing a point that simply would not exist. At best, you would increase the temperature by an ammount significantly less than the day-night swing, and significantly less than seasonal swing. If mud like formations ( which is what you're saying this dragging has produces, soil with liquid water to produce that formation is your point ) can be triggered by the tiny tiny influence of a dragged wheel - then there should be HUGE ammounts of evidence of this all OVER the planet. Where is it?

Where's the pond in the bottom of the trenches that have been dug - you might get an increase in temperature there, of..ooo...a degree maybe? You're churning a lot of subsurface soil there, exposing it to the sun. Where are your mud and clays there? Where's the mud clinging to the wheels which have dragged their way thru km's of soil? Water vapour in the soil - that's great, but the total column volume of water in the atmosphere is about 20 microns.

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #47823 · Replies: 260 · Views: 197466

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 01:31 PM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE (RGClark @ Mar 27 2006, 12:58 PM) *
Such liquid water even if at layers at the micron-scale is enough for...


But not enough to make mud, which is where your argument begins, and I still don't buy, for one minute, that the drag of a wheel would cause an noticeable increase in temperature.


Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #47814 · Replies: 260 · Views: 197466

djellison
Posted on: Mar 27 2006, 07:57 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


I really wouldnt want to deface one by scrawling on it smile.gif

Doug
  Forum: Spirit · Post Preview: #47798 · Replies: 152 · Views: 180313

djellison
Posted on: Mar 26 2006, 11:10 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


QUOTE (GravityWaves @ Mar 26 2006, 11:05 AM) *
Its too early to praise or dismiss the whole venture so lets wait for the 2nd or 3rd one, next launch is supposed to be in a few months


Quite. Doesnt stop Bell though.

Doug
  Forum: Private Missions · Post Preview: #47692 · Replies: 511 · Views: 310795

djellison
Posted on: Mar 26 2006, 10:09 AM


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14457
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1


The central 1/5th of full res HiRISE images can be taken in pseudo-colour ( nIR, Red and B-G ) - but they've not processed that yet.

As I understand it - they took more than just the one image as well, I guess they'll be released at that Mars Mania event next month.

Doug
  Forum: MRO 2005 · Post Preview: #47687 · Replies: 224 · Views: 152033

462 Pages V  « < 314 315 316 317 318 > » 

New Posts  New Replies
No New Posts  No New Replies
Hot topic  Hot Topic (New)
No new  Hot Topic (No New)
Poll  Poll (New)
No new votes  Poll (No New)
Closed  Locked Topic
Moved  Moved Topic
 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th December 2024 - 07:07 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.