home for some moved posts from the MEX/Huygens thread

ESA does amazing things. We know that. MEX is great, Huygens was great, Rosetta will be great etc etc etc

BUT

Their press and outreach efforts are a disgrace and data release is not much better. Fact. The Hugyens coverage was terrible, MEX press releases are often missleading, intentionally - remember MEX 'discovering' water at the pole. It was pathetic, missleading, and BANG out of order to over sell the discoveries MEX has made. What's happening to Smart-1 at the moment. Dunno - they dont bother telling us any more - it's been in orbit around the moon for months and months - and what press info have we had? Half a dozen pictures. That's it. It will have taken thousands, if not tens of thousands by now.

Yes - MEX data gets released at the same schedule as MGS data - but have you SEEN it? HRSC data is in one, processed format that's basically unworkable. Where's the MEX version of the workbook, where's the software to use the data, where's the pdf's covering the calibration and processing? Where's the Smart 1 data?

Occasionally - ESA pulls a blinder, such as the Photoshop plugins for FIT's imagery - some of the work people have done using that with that, and DSS2 / HST data etc is just utterly utterly astonishing ( eg http://www.spacetelescope.org/projects/fit...emartin_12.html ) - but they COULD do the same for MEX, for Smart 1 - let us at it, show us the goods in a way that is useable....but they dont.

Let me repeat - the efforts of the scientists and engineers who are doing these missions is superb. I don't lay much of this criticism at their door. The disgrace is the outreach and press efforts of ESA which are often embarrasing. I CRINGE when I see a new Mars Express press release, worrying what they'll claim MEX has 'discovered' this time. It's a culture within ESA that the 'public' are an at-arms-reach body that wouldnt understand what they're doing anyway. It started with the chronic Giotto imagery and it's been the same ever since.

Basically, consider MER. The workbook, the raw JPG's, Steve's blog, the Pancam website, the Director Updates, the route maps, Podcasts, weekly updates, the genuine discoveries being trumpeted, and the context of previous missions into which they fall being credited.

Now consider Smart 1 or MEX. The difference is night and day, black and white, it is the difference between the right way of doing things, and the wrong way.

Criticism of ESA on this point is valid, warrented, justified and appropriate and the discussion is NOT closed until the situation improves.

Doug

(PS - yes - I agree, too much of this particular discussion - I'm going to move it to an appropriate thread elsewhere - we have one on this exact topic)

An MI healthcheck image has been scheduled for Spirit on the pancam traking site for a couple of sols - so I wouldnt read anything into it - I think it might well be a comparison image to go "right,we know spirit's IDD is parked, what does the IDD show there....now what does the oppy image look like...." as a secondary visual gauge of the IDD's exact position - probably down to a sub millimeter accuracy I would imagine. Then - they'll be able to either

a) Set off in the knowledge that the IDD is properly parked and work on the issue while coveirng ground

or

Know they need to fix the issue right now as it isnt parked and thus they cant drive

Comparing the two
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/mi...W6P2900M1M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...KCP2900M1M1.JPG

It's clear that Oppy's IDD isnt parked in the same position as Spirit's - and thus it may be that it's not parked at all, or it's parked 'enough' to allow driving

That's my take on it all anyway.
Doug

Well - November was busy - the most new members in a month since the oops-I-turned-off-guest-access-screw-up of early '05 - the most posts in a single month (4238) and Spirit and Opportunity forums are both about to break thru the Half-Million-Thread-View mark
Opportunity
499913
Spirit
494878

And the total is at 1.911 million thread views

November was a good month generally - 18755 unique visitors (new record up from 13k in April '05 ) 47,877 visits (new record up from 33k last month) but maintaining a fairly steady bandwidth at just under 30 gig a month.

It's all good

Doug

Going on the standard of driving around there - I'd certainly argue against intelligence

Just added - http://www.rlproject.com/spain_pan/sierra_3.jpg - the jumbo Larry's Lookout I mentioned

Doug

Home for the really REALLY off topic stuff

http://www.rlproject.com/spain_pan/
Some quick-n-dirty-pans I've done, plenty more to come


Doug

Obviously - IDD health for Opportunity

Doug

Actually, being 'new' to this place w.r.t. our lambasting of ESA is a valid point. It's something of an in-joke between the regulars here ( myself included ) that ESA's press efforts are, from time to time, about as accurate as Ford saying they just discovered the wheel. If you arrived here and just read this thread out of the 18 months + of context that our opinion of ESA press releases had - you could get it very wrong. This place has a very active and healthy sense of humour.

Doug

It look as though they're making the most of the pseudo 'down' time anyway - a full 360 Pancam mosaic, and a deck pan. They're already AT new terrain. Yes - it'd be nice to be doing 200m/sol and be at Victoria by Christmas, but sometimes things are just not possible.

Remember - for all we know, the IDD may have moved just enough to be considered un-parked and thus driving CAN'T be done. (infact, I think that's quite likely) - read the updates and it says that it stayed park on the first sol, then the second sol it recorded a small ammount of motion.

To make the anaology more appropriate, would you head out for the grand canyon to do geology without first checking you had your rock hammer and lens in your bag, and that your bag wasnt going to fall off the back of the truck on the way? Oh - and the Truck is parked on top of the first significant layering you've seen in 200 sols... get my point?

Yes - I can see why some would say "get moving" - but I can see why it may not even be possible ( so the argument is mute ) and I can see why they would want to look at what they're parked infront of.

Doug

It's the same argument that's been had a thousand times. Yes - it's nice to make progress, but yes - one has to take whatever science is infront of you because the rover may not wake up tomorrow.

For all we know - driving might worsen the IDD situation. The IDD may not even be properly parked, and driving could cause irreperable damage.

Yes - it looks like there are some nice outcrops ahead, but we already have one right infront of us - that we are already 'at' and already poised to investigate, with routines for the IDD already written. I can see the case for driving on, but I can see why there
1) may be reasons that we can't drove on
2) are good reasons to stay put till the IDD is fixed, or declared unuseable.

Doug

Because they're sat right infront of some fantastic layering which they want to investigate.

Doug

You're a legend

I imagine it's much like the Spirit FR wheel issue - just one of those things that happens after some use, but isnt predictable. Unfortunately, there's no 'backwards' to running a joint, so perhaps some higher watermarks for current limits on the motor will help the problem, as perhaps will heating the hell out of it to redistribute grease hopefully (didnt work with Spirit's wheel) , but as with all the actuators and motors on the rovers, they're getting old.

Doug

The shroud for the surface sampling boom - ejected by the lander after it got there.

Doug

Well - all the roads and speed limits in the UK are still Miles - it's just the rest of Europe that's converted to KPH

Doug

Wow - Is there any way you could get more copies of that? I'd be happy to pay for postage etc if you could get 3 copies sorted for me

Doug

AHh - I cheated mid-holiday and checked the MER site, the Athena site, Emily's Blog and saw the Director Update - very cool I thought

Doug

Evening ladies - where's my cold slice of Pizza

Driving on the wrong side of the road was actually - quite cool It ended up being a little VW Polo instead of a Clio, but we watched Dolphins jumping thru the Med before heading off to the Airport yesterday for the flight home - and we got to see some great geology up in the Sierra Nevada ( pics at a later date, but I found a jumbo version of Larry's Lookout )

Congrats and Kudos to the Admin and Mod team - they did a great job of looking after the place, I wasnt worried for a moment - honest

Doug

Well - on my desktop it's a 19" TFT ( 1280 x 1024 ) but my new laptop is a rather nice screen 17" TFT at 1920 x 1200 - I wanted something that would show a 1024 x 1024 image in a browser without shrinking, and show a 1080i HDTV movie at full res.

Doug

Right - time to pack and head out to the airport for two weeks away - I doubt I'll have the chance to check in while I'm away ( and actually the idea of two weeks away from the 'net all together is quite appealing! ) - first holiday in > 3 years so I'm very much looking forward to it. If you live within about 100 miles of Malaga, look out for the stupid Brit in a Clio driving on the wrong side of the road

Nico (nix) is the man to speak to if you have any trouble - and Jason, Bjorn, Michael and Alan are the Moderating team. Panic not - steps are in place to make sure that the place is backed up regularly in my absence.

So, be good, be creative, be whatever it is you've been for the last 2 years that makes this place so great and I'll see you in a couple of weeks!!


Doug

Thanks

At this rate, Douglas Adams Triology of Four wont even leave the suitcase

Doug

Well the TDRS sat's launch with deployable HGA's - but I'm not sure if their design would be applicable for deep space applications instead of GEO.

Doug

Sadly is a fiscal subscription, not just a normal subscription - and although bugmenot had many suggestions (i gave up after 30) , none actually worked Hey ho - I have all the JGR-Planets inprints to read in Spain

Doug

Done - these are the papers that Steve mentions in the Q'n'A - pity about the subscription requirement - I would love to read the whole damn lot of them

Doug