CR, I don't agree that there really is and 3D effect over on the far rim, I can't see it anyway. Maybe someone could do some Photogrammetry? As for the left section being closer, when I measure it on the map it seems to be further away than some of the outcrops near Sofi.

If your going to shift the image along that much then you're going to have a problem matching the rest of the rim arn't you? For instance, Bay F4 is now matched with a clear outcrop in your image.

To my eye, the match between Bay F1 and the bay between A & B in your image is one of the most striking across the whole far rim. It has quite a distictive 'question mark' shape from this point of view that can be seen in both the MOC and pancams.

James

EDIT: To help avoid confusion, here is the my comparison post in another thread.

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ost&p=69352

I've updated the maps so that north is at the top. I've also made a version with the major bays labeled in blue (version on the right) - I'm not sure if I find it better or too cluttered, so I'm loading both so you can choose whichever you prefer.



James

Tosol we have a pancam of this area (360 L1 albedo pan) - the little bit you point to is just off the bottom but the rest of the outcrop looks undamaged (by eye).

Personally, I don't buy the 'bit falling off' theory I think it's much more likely that as a small gust of wind blew over the ledge and the vortex created in its wake produced a 'mini dust devil'.

http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/...00P2269L1M1.JPG

Because the original labeled version of the image comes that way round and it didn't occur to me at the time. I'll sort it as soon as I get the chance.

James

It may not look it on the map but that was a 25m drive. Oppy drove 10m, then 10m back, then 5m forward again!

Thanks Stu, if you liked that, you'll love this.

I've been playing around (as you do on a non driving sol! ) and I've managed to distort the MOC image in such a way as to fit to the viewing angles from Duck Bay. i.e The line of sight from Duck Bay to any feature is vertically up in the distorted MOC image, it's not perfect but pretty close.

So here is another version of the pancam/MOC comparison and it's a much better fit to what we see.



James

Your right, it would be better if north was at the top - I'll sort it when I get a chance. I wouldn't add all the labels to the route map just those that we start talking about a lot.

To help you all with your ID's of the far rim, here is JPL's pancam mosaic alongside my labeled straightened rim.



As were not sitting at the centre of Victoria, a few features don't quite line up, but it's pretty close.

James

Yup, now the tracking data is in (finally!) we can see that this is correct, there was no movement on 946.


Pando: Very good, it hardly seems necessary to go to Victoria now - we've seen it.

Wow, that's a great image Fred! Really gives some scale to those cliffs, just imagining tiny Oppy up there (perhaps some 'Mystery Rovers' could be in order) makes me worried about her - this as scary place!

James

I'm not so sure, that crater is as far away as the twin peaks and they appear to be on (or over the horizon) the dark mark on the pancams seems to extend several pixels below the horizon, suggesting that it's closer. The image in that direction maybe a lower resolution but there are plenty of smaller scale features present, I don't think that it's just low resolution image of a Victoria class crater, just an old bowl in the ground.

Anyway, lets wait for L7 with it's better resolution.

James

The russians actually tried this back in 1998, but the mirrior failed to deploy.

I've noticed that feature. As with the other horizon features I think this will be much clearer when we have better images (L7, lower compression etc) images.

However, just to pass the time, here is the direction of that dark patch on the Themis:



I doubt we could see that old eroded crater that's many km's away, I've marked a much closer dark feature in that direction that could be what we see.

James

Here are the labeled Victoria maps using Dilo's cleaned version.





(Click images for full size versions, 188kB each)

James

Because Doug says so!


Ustrax: Going back to your feature matching. I still think most of the features are fictitious, I really would advise going back to the 'raw' images.

Re B&C, the 'twin peaks', some guys here have been tracking those since way back, I think there is no doubt that it is part of the north rim complex, your 'A' on the Themis image.

I think this topic will be better adressed when we have some L7 which should be much better quality for distant features.

James

Thanks for pointing me at your cleaned up image again Dilo - I was going to use that the first time but I couldn't find where I downloaded it or your post again.

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/09/20/

A drive tosol (946) - One of the little test ones I suppose - I guess that means the checkouts yestersol were fine.

If you look at the image I posted back here - http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ost&p=66855

It's hard to read - but it looks like some of the far rim peaks could be 150+m above the surrounding plains so yes, bigger than the Columbia hills. (And maybe 600-700m above the crater floor!)

Wow, how many times has this question been asked here now?

Viking 1 - 2245 sols
Viking 2 - 1281 sols

cf. Design liftime 120 sols

James

Nice diagram Ustrax, a shame it's fiction!

For two reasons - First, most of those features can't be seen in the original images - they are artifacts of Nico's processing. I can only see B, C & F

Here are some 5x vertical + contrast/brightness of the raw 943 pancams:



Second, The headings to those features are all wrong, here are the headings of the edges of the three features marked on the themis image.




As you can see B & C are the "Twin Peaks" on the north rim of the crater that we have been able to see for a while. As in my earlier work, the only thing in the direction of "F" is the far rim - It's a long way, but nowhere near as far as the Gusev rim is from Spirit so there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to see that far.

As we've found with the MOC images, sometimes the headings don't quite line up over large distances - I've marked (in light blue) the bit of the rim just offset from the derived heading that looks higher and what I consider to be the best candidate for "F"

James

Your right Tesheiner, it was late here so I took a bit of a guess at that one - should know better than to do that these days.



Right, I think it's quite the opposite in fact. It's looking to me like the capes slope downward toward there ends.

Tesheiner has already pointed it out in the navcams but here is Cape Verde in the pancams:



James

Well I disagree with both of you!

Here is my understanding of the situation.



The headings correlate well and make sense with what we see on the far rim.
I've also included my understanding of what the JPL names refer to.

James

Well I did do a quick check using the navcams yesterday and I did get the same answer.

With regard to other bays, a couple of rough calculatons give:

18 degrees for Bay K1 (just to the right of Sofi)
25 degrees for Bay J1
25 degrees for Bay F1 - although we're not looking squarely onto the slope so this is probably an underestimate.

James

Actually, thinking about it some more, this could work. If bays are given the same designation as the cape on there clockwise side then most of the major bays (which tend to seperate lettered regions) would have a "1" designation making the scheme easier to remember. Duck Bay would be "Bay A1" and the bay that Fredk has measured the slope of would be "Bay I1"

James

Well not white, bright in L2 (red).

Nearly all bright things in L2 have been exposed evaporite - and there will be plenty of that along the rim!