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Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)
tasp
post Apr 12 2013, 11:17 PM
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Orientation of the items on the surface was as expected is pretty significant, IMO.

If confirmed at some point, it is heartening to know so much went correctly during the mission. Late 60s/early 70s technology and they got a probe on the surface, count me thunderstruck. Impressive accomplishment!

IIRC, there was some speculation (if this is the right mission) the parachute might have come done on the probe, which would have been a frustrating outcome. To there credit, that may not have happened.

LOL, just pondering the imaging wizards here and elsewhere might already be trying to match up surface rocks supposedly visible on the partial video frame sent down with the images possibly showing the hardware with the surface features in the area.

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stevesliva
post Apr 13 2013, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (tasp @ Apr 12 2013, 06:17 PM) *
IIRC, there was some speculation (if this is the right mission) the parachute might have come done on the probe, which would have been a frustrating outcome. To there credit, that may not have happened.


That would've been an interesting way to explain the brief transmission, and then silence. However it's hard to imagine the chute was radio opaque.
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Explorer1
post Apr 13 2013, 03:07 AM
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QUOTE (tasp @ Apr 12 2013, 04:17 PM) *
LOL, just pondering the imaging wizards here and elsewhere might already be trying to match up surface rocks supposedly visible on the partial video frame sent down with the images possibly showing the hardware with the surface features in the area.


I'm pretty sure there was no identifiable data in that image, since what looks like the 'horizon' is actually vertical. And since Mars 3 appears to be right side up, it can't be even that.
Only way to figure it out for sure would be to send something to get the 'ground truth'.
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Geert
post Apr 13 2013, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 12 2013, 11:39 PM) *
That would give the location of 45.045 degrees south, 202.023 degrees east (157.977 degrees west)



To me, that's one of the most amazing things in the whole story, that apparently it came down almost exactly in the position they had calculated long ago (45S 158W). There were so many unknown factors (it was '71, the original landingsite might have been selected based on Mariner 4 images), that landing ellipse was hundreds of kilometers big, and then seemingly it ends up almost exactly on the calculated spot..
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ElkGroveDan
post Apr 13 2013, 04:42 AM
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QUOTE (Zelenyikot @ Apr 11 2013, 10:57 PM) *
Important argument - chain length on retrorocket. HiRise showed 4,8 m, and check according to drawings in NPO Lavochkin - 4,5 m + retrorocket engine.

I wonder if the entire "chain" in the HiRISE image is all chain, or possibly the darkness at the beginning of the chain is a rock or some other soil discoloration causing the chain to appear longer.


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vikingmars
post Apr 13 2013, 05:46 AM
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Solving the Mars 6 landing mistery would be great also... wink.gif
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Zelenyikot
post Apr 13 2013, 07:04 AM
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QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Apr 13 2013, 04:42 AM) *
I wonder if the entire "chain" in the HiRISE image is all chain, or possibly the darkness at the beginning of the chain is a rock or some other soil discoloration causing the chain to appear longer.

It not the rock, is the engine of soft landing.


QUOTE (vikingmars @ Apr 13 2013, 05:46 AM) *
Solving the Mars 6 landing mistery would be great also... wink.gif

We will be engaged in it smile.gif


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Phil Stooke
post Apr 13 2013, 12:20 PM
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Luna 9 had one camera, but Luna 13 had two - but only one worked. The Luna 13 panorama starts with a view of the second camera, a fuzzy blob of light and dark patches.

http://mentallandscape.com/C_Luna13_2.jpg

( thanks to Don Mitchell for collecting this and many other images here:

http://mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogMoon.htm

Mars 3 had the same dual camera design as Luna 13. If there is any real information in the Mars 3 image it is almost certainly part of the second camera, not the surface of Mars.

Phil




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Bill Harris
post Apr 13 2013, 01:16 PM
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QUOTE (Zelenyikot @ Apr 13 2013, 02:04 AM) *
It not the rock, is the engine of soft landing.


So this was an amazing precursor to the MSL "Skycrane" technique. Impressive, since it almost worked.

--Bill


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akuo
post Apr 13 2013, 01:41 PM
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It did work, unless the landing shock somehow disabled the lander 14.5s late.


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vikingmars
post Apr 13 2013, 01:56 PM
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Phil, I know, you are drooling over the Mars 3 images...
So, I decided to make a pixel overlap just for you (and also for our UMSF members) between the 2 HiRISE images PSP_006154_1345 and ESP_031036_1345 to show the Mars 3 lander with some more details...
The petals are readily visible now. This work is dedicated to you and your outstanding "Atlas of Mars" book. Enjoy ! smile.gif
Attached Image
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TheAnt
post Apr 13 2013, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE (vikingmars @ Apr 13 2013, 03:56 PM) *
This work is dedicated to you and your outstanding "Atlas of Mars" book. Enjoy ! smile.gif


This really look suggestive, thank you for your post and image. smile.gif
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Phil Stooke
post Apr 13 2013, 02:37 PM
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Thanks! Yes, it looks very good.

Phil



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mcaplinger
post Apr 13 2013, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (Geert @ Apr 12 2013, 08:22 PM) *
To me, that's one of the most amazing things in the whole story, that apparently it came down almost exactly in the position they had calculated long ago (45S 158W).

Given the changes in coordinate systems since then (tens of km difference at least) I'd say that's a coincidence at best. What we call 158W today is quite different from what they called it in 1971.


QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Apr 13 2013, 06:16 AM) *
So this was an amazing precursor to the MSL "Skycrane" technique.

It was more like the Pathfinder/MER landing system without the airbags IMHO.


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Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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dvandorn
post Apr 13 2013, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Apr 13 2013, 10:11 AM) *
It was more like the Pathfinder/MER landing system without the airbags IMHO.

Well... the early Soviet Luna moon landers (Lunas 9 and 13 in particular), which were configured somewhat similarly to the Mars 3 lander, did have airbags. Are we certain that Mars 3 did not employ them?

-the other Doug


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