Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged) |
Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged) |
Apr 12 2013, 11:17 PM
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#136
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Member Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 30-January 05 Member No.: 162 |
Orientation of the items on the surface was as expected is pretty significant, IMO.
If confirmed at some point, it is heartening to know so much went correctly during the mission. Late 60s/early 70s technology and they got a probe on the surface, count me thunderstruck. Impressive accomplishment! IIRC, there was some speculation (if this is the right mission) the parachute might have come done on the probe, which would have been a frustrating outcome. To there credit, that may not have happened. LOL, just pondering the imaging wizards here and elsewhere might already be trying to match up surface rocks supposedly visible on the partial video frame sent down with the images possibly showing the hardware with the surface features in the area. |
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Apr 13 2013, 02:10 AM
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#137
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1582 Joined: 14-October 05 From: Vermont Member No.: 530 |
IIRC, there was some speculation (if this is the right mission) the parachute might have come done on the probe, which would have been a frustrating outcome. To there credit, that may not have happened. That would've been an interesting way to explain the brief transmission, and then silence. However it's hard to imagine the chute was radio opaque. |
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Apr 13 2013, 03:07 AM
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#138
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2082 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
LOL, just pondering the imaging wizards here and elsewhere might already be trying to match up surface rocks supposedly visible on the partial video frame sent down with the images possibly showing the hardware with the surface features in the area. I'm pretty sure there was no identifiable data in that image, since what looks like the 'horizon' is actually vertical. And since Mars 3 appears to be right side up, it can't be even that. Only way to figure it out for sure would be to send something to get the 'ground truth'. |
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Apr 13 2013, 03:22 AM
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#139
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Member Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 5-June 08 From: Udon Thani Member No.: 4185 |
That would give the location of 45.045 degrees south, 202.023 degrees east (157.977 degrees west) To me, that's one of the most amazing things in the whole story, that apparently it came down almost exactly in the position they had calculated long ago (45S 158W). There were so many unknown factors (it was '71, the original landingsite might have been selected based on Mariner 4 images), that landing ellipse was hundreds of kilometers big, and then seemingly it ends up almost exactly on the calculated spot.. |
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Apr 13 2013, 04:42 AM
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#140
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 4763 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Glendale, AZ Member No.: 197 |
Important argument - chain length on retrorocket. HiRise showed 4,8 m, and check according to drawings in NPO Lavochkin - 4,5 m + retrorocket engine. I wonder if the entire "chain" in the HiRISE image is all chain, or possibly the darkness at the beginning of the chain is a rock or some other soil discoloration causing the chain to appear longer. -------------------- If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
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Apr 13 2013, 05:46 AM
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#141
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1084 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
Solving the Mars 6 landing mistery would be great also...
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Apr 13 2013, 07:04 AM
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#142
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Member Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: 23-October 12 From: Russia Member No.: 6725 |
I wonder if the entire "chain" in the HiRISE image is all chain, or possibly the darkness at the beginning of the chain is a rock or some other soil discoloration causing the chain to appear longer. It not the rock, is the engine of soft landing. Solving the Mars 6 landing mistery would be great also... We will be engaged in it -------------------- My blog on Patreon
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Apr 13 2013, 12:20 PM
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#143
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10151 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Luna 9 had one camera, but Luna 13 had two - but only one worked. The Luna 13 panorama starts with a view of the second camera, a fuzzy blob of light and dark patches.
http://mentallandscape.com/C_Luna13_2.jpg ( thanks to Don Mitchell for collecting this and many other images here: http://mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogMoon.htm Mars 3 had the same dual camera design as Luna 13. If there is any real information in the Mars 3 image it is almost certainly part of the second camera, not the surface of Mars. Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Apr 13 2013, 01:16 PM
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#144
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2998 Joined: 30-October 04 Member No.: 105 |
It not the rock, is the engine of soft landing. So this was an amazing precursor to the MSL "Skycrane" technique. Impressive, since it almost worked. --Bill -------------------- |
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Apr 13 2013, 01:41 PM
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#145
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Member Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 24-March 04 From: Finland Member No.: 63 |
It did work, unless the landing shock somehow disabled the lander 14.5s late.
-------------------- Antti Kuosmanen
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Apr 13 2013, 01:56 PM
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#146
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1084 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
Phil, I know, you are drooling over the Mars 3 images...
So, I decided to make a pixel overlap just for you (and also for our UMSF members) between the 2 HiRISE images PSP_006154_1345 and ESP_031036_1345 to show the Mars 3 lander with some more details... The petals are readily visible now. This work is dedicated to you and your outstanding "Atlas of Mars" book. Enjoy ! |
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Apr 13 2013, 02:23 PM
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#147
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Member Group: Members Posts: 495 Joined: 12-February 12 Member No.: 6336 |
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Apr 13 2013, 02:37 PM
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#148
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10151 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Thanks! Yes, it looks very good.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Apr 13 2013, 04:11 PM
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#149
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
To me, that's one of the most amazing things in the whole story, that apparently it came down almost exactly in the position they had calculated long ago (45S 158W). Given the changes in coordinate systems since then (tens of km difference at least) I'd say that's a coincidence at best. What we call 158W today is quite different from what they called it in 1971. So this was an amazing precursor to the MSL "Skycrane" technique. It was more like the Pathfinder/MER landing system without the airbags IMHO. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Apr 13 2013, 06:17 PM
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#150
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
It was more like the Pathfinder/MER landing system without the airbags IMHO. Well... the early Soviet Luna moon landers (Lunas 9 and 13 in particular), which were configured somewhat similarly to the Mars 3 lander, did have airbags. Are we certain that Mars 3 did not employ them? -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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