Heading south from Cape York, Opportunity's post-conjunction adventures / Sol 3291 - 3387 |
Heading south from Cape York, Opportunity's post-conjunction adventures / Sol 3291 - 3387 |
May 19 2013, 06:58 PM
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#46
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
Similar distance as on the previous one: 95m. One more drive and we may be reaching the 36km mark. |
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May 19 2013, 11:13 PM
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#47
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1043 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 4605 |
Did you also notice that we (I on the Spirit & Oppy Statistics) used to get 35890 for Apollo 17 rover and this is also used on the New Mexico Museum's but Nasa says 35744...and tthey can't be wrong. Phil, do you think all Moon driving distances will have to be reevaluated? Did they zero the odometer before deployment or did it still have acceptance test distance logged, compensated for in the distance / direction from start point software? ie. The distance on moon will be less than the total recorded? Comparing the Apollo rovers to the MER is really a chalk and cheese approach and the outcomes depend on how you squint when assessing. For example: if you look at distance and time deployed the Apollo 15 rover is the champ. 0.152 kilometers per minute. Apollo 17 comes in second at 0.135. Opportunity can go down in history as the slowest ever rover in terms of distance /time. |
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May 20 2013, 12:08 AM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
Yes, they zeroed the nav system several times during the EVAs. And the system only told you the range and bearing back to the LM. Total odometry was calculable from this (it was calculated on wheel turns), but was considered somewhat of a "dead reckoning" system. Wheel slippage and meander to avoid rocks and craters meant that the nav system would get you back to where you could see the LM and drive back to it by eye. No one ever pretended that it could tell you within a few meters *exactly* where you were or how far you had driven.
On the LRV, the range and bearing were more often used in finding the planned station stops, and due to the various small detours and wheel slips these readings usually varied from the pre-mission calculated values, even when the slight variations in landing point were taken into account. All this is to say that you'd have to do the kind of detailed wheel-track analysis they're now doing with the Lunakhods to get the absolute exact distance traveled by any of the LRVs. There is a "wander factor" in the LRV nav data that makes all calculations based on them somewhat approximate. -the other Doug -------------------- The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. -Mark Twain
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May 20 2013, 03:58 AM
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#49
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Opportunity can go down in history as the slowest ever rover in terms of distance /time. You could make up a million different statistics all pretty much as meaningless as the next. Distance travelled vs average distance from earth. Distance travelled per KG of vehicle mass. Number of individual drives. Number of locations visited. Total longevity etc etc etc |
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May 20 2013, 07:25 AM
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 754 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 1700 |
Interesting stats would be long distance targets like Endurance or Victoria or Endeavor and what was the average drive length when heading towards these goals. Before embarking on the trek to Endeavor folks were doing some math about how long it would take.
btw, didn't we have a pool guessing the arrival date at Endeavor? |
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May 20 2013, 02:53 PM
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#51
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
We had one long-running poll here years back and the back-and-forth arguing both during the drive and after the goal was reached became so annoyingly dull that polls have been banned here ever since.
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May 20 2013, 03:11 PM
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#52
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1619 Joined: 12-February 06 From: Bergerac - FR Member No.: 678 |
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May 20 2013, 10:36 PM
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#53
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1043 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 4605 |
You could make up a million different statistics all pretty much as meaningless as the next. ... Exactly my point. Comparing the distance achieved by a lunar 'car' and a martian robotic rover is meaningless. The really big deal is comparing the longevity and distance achieved by Opportunity compared to design requirements and mission success parameters. I have used Opportunity as an example of outstanding reliability engineering and remote diagnosis and rectification. I stand in awe of those who designed and built her. |
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May 21 2013, 01:00 PM
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#54
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Forum Contributor Group: Members Posts: 1372 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
..compared to design requirements.... JPL engineers admitted the MER's were overengineered and that the 90 day mission time was very likely to be exceeded, barring some unforseen problem. So comparing to the 90 day required time is not really a valid reference point. The main reason Sprit died was it got trapped in sand and could not tilt it's solar panels to the Sun. That of course could have happend on the first drive if fate had meant that to happen. |
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May 21 2013, 01:45 PM
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#55
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
JPL engineers admitted the MSL's were overengineered and that the 90 day mission time was very likely to be exceeded, barring some unforseen problem I assume you mean MER. I can assure you - all mechanisms etc are tested to 3x the required lifetime. That's not 'over engineered' - that's called engineering margin to guarantee a good shot at reaching your requirements. It's JPL policy. It puts the bellcurve of expected failure centered beyond 90 days. Squyres has been on record - years after landing - saying he thought maybe 120, if everything went perfectly maybe 180 sols. I'd be interested in exactly where you see JPL engineers describing MER as 'overengineered'. That's not a phrase I've ever heard them use. Required engineering margin....yes. Not 'overengineered' Plus - the dust was STILL expected to kill the rovers very shortly after 90 sols. This paper by the late great Jake Matijevic details the expected liftspan of the rovers... http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstre...9/1/02-0732.pdf Slide 3 explicitly states that the expected useful lifespan of the rovers was 100 sols for MER-B at the 'Hematite' site ( aka Meridiani ) and 92 sols for MER-A at Gusev. So - maybe you might find an engineer on Sol 500 saying "We obviously tested for more than 90 sols". But BEFORE launch - I challenge you to find any engineer on record stating they expected the rovers to last significantly longer than 90 days. I don't think you'll find it. |
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May 21 2013, 02:42 PM
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#56
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Forum Contributor Group: Members Posts: 1372 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
I think I may have equated 'margin' with 'over engineering'.
I still think though the team was staying with the 90/180 day thing, as the costs for a 10 year mission would not have been at the time favorably looked at by the beancounters...... . There was even conjecture at one time one rover would be turned off to save said beans . |
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May 21 2013, 02:52 PM
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#57
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Member Group: Admin Posts: 976 Joined: 29-September 06 From: Pasadena, CA - USA Member No.: 1200 |
Interesting stats would be long distance targets like Endurance or Victoria or Endeavor and what was the average drive length when heading towards these goals. Before embarking on the trek to Endeavor folks were doing some math about how long it would take. btw, didn't we have a pool guessing the arrival date at Endeavor? I counted 999 Sols, Distance 21.12285 Km, 357 drives, 21.14 meters/sol 59.17 meters/drive Paolo -------------------- Disclaimer: all opinions, ideas and information included here are my own,and should not be intended to represent opinion or policy of my employer.
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May 21 2013, 03:52 PM
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#58
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1084 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
Sol 3312 panoramas Thanks a lot Ant103 : those views are impressive in the sense they show a virgin territory yet to be explored in front of us, really devoided of any tracks and marks. A real sence of loneliness here from your pics. This is what I call an "unknown territory" ! |
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May 21 2013, 04:11 PM
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#59
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
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May 21 2013, 08:35 PM
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#60
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
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