"Dragonfly" Titan explorer drone, NASA funds Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) |
"Dragonfly" Titan explorer drone, NASA funds Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) |
Guest_Steve5304_* |
Dec 6 2019, 02:17 AM
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#121
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Guests |
In this context (and in the 'Titan: Dead or Alive?' debate I had with Jeff Moore some years back) I've liked to show the attached as something of an analog : the salt glaciers in Iran. Salt layers emplaced when the Sea of Tethys (!) dried up are buoyant compared with their superposed sediments, and halite is a soft enough rock to flow somewhat (especially when mobilized by moisture). In a few places, the salt diapirs pierce the surface, and flow at ~1m year, spreading out in a blob (I guess ultimately material is lost at the edges by dissolution in occasional rainfall - certainly the surface is dissected). [attachment=45385:saltdome...0_733_27.png] So, it's functionally solid material, it has exuded from underground: perhaps if we saw it on Titan we'd call it a cryovolcanic flow. But it isnt what we'd call on Earth a volcano. On the other hand, it wasnt emplaced meteorologically, like an ice glacier. It's something in between, and Titan may have a lot of 'in between'. Arthur C. Clarke's 'Imperial Earth' has a nice word - 'waxworms'.... I really enjoyed your post. Very informational. Thanks for this |
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Dec 6 2019, 04:40 PM
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#122
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
I too am glad to see this topic revisited here. I remember we had a discussion along similar lines a number of years ago that many current members and visitors may have missed. There is so much potential on Titan for active processes that don't fit within familiar terrestrial categories and timescales. That's one reason why it will be a fascinating place to explore further. It would be a tremendous aid to understanding if we had a way of establishing even the relative chronology of surface features large and small. Absolute dating of any kind would be even better, of course. Meanwhile those Iranian salt extrusions are great to think about. They don't need internal heat to drive them for a start.
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Dec 10 2019, 08:48 PM
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#123
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Member Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 20-June 07 From: Slovenia Member No.: 2461 |
Slightly off topic, but still relevant...here is my take at 3d view of Dragonfly's landing area using SAR data, combined with DTM from dr. Lorenz....the view is towards northwest...Selk crater is on the right...in front of it to the south sand dunes can be seen...as I understand, Dragonfly will touch down somewhere among those dunes in 2034.
Jake |
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Jul 8 2020, 11:12 AM
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#124
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Member Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 26-May 15 From: Rome - Italy Member No.: 7482 |
I hope this mission will show us magnificent things. We are all a little bitter for not seeing the seas of ethane-methane. Maybe it's everyone's dream. I hope there are many hidden things unknown to us between Shangri-La and the selK crater. I would not like to see a colder copy of Mars (dunes, dunes and more dunes) after many years of waiting :-) I also trust in the extension of the mission for objectives not yet thought out (I hope wet objectives). We inhabitants of planet Earth cannot miss this opportunity!
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Jul 8 2020, 03:06 PM
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#125
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
Huygens was designed to land in liquid, but did not. I don't think Dragonfly's landing in even a deep puddle would end well.
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Jul 9 2020, 02:25 PM
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#126
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1276 Joined: 25-November 04 Member No.: 114 |
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Jul 9 2020, 03:44 PM
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#127
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
I thought dragonfly starts its flight right away. After decent and deployment. And then it descends under power and lands after a fairly limited flight. I think we should define a rule banning complaining about not going to lakes. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Jul 9 2020, 06:11 PM
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#128
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1276 Joined: 25-November 04 Member No.: 114 |
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Jul 9 2020, 06:40 PM
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#129
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
Huh? I didn't complain! Read the past few messages. I wasn't sure what point you were trying to make in that context. Certainly there has been some complaining in this thread. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Jul 10 2020, 10:40 AM
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#130
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Alright, no more complaining about lakes, which includes complaining about people complaining. This is making me complain & so we're now perilously close to an infinite meta-loop or something...
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Jul 11 2020, 10:17 PM
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#131
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
I'm sorry that Titan is so marvelously diverse that we can't see all of its variety in one mission. Maybe we should explore Rhea instead, to avoid this conundrum! Rhea Orbiter and Multiple Landers or bust.
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Jul 12 2020, 12:23 AM
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#132
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 3230 Joined: 11-February 04 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 23 |
Exactly, and I'm sure that in the next round of Discovery proposals, particularly if two are selected this time around for the 2026 and 2028 windows, there will be at least one TiME-like mission to Titan's northern lakes. Maybe? Assuming Discovery maintains its every two year cadence, that puts the next launch window around 2030? Northern equinox is in 2039 I think... Given Titan's diverse geology, I'm sure that Dragonfly won't be the only lander in the near to medium future to Titan.
And I 100% endorse a mission to Rhea. But it really is sample return or bust from that tremendously exciting world. -------------------- &@^^!% Jim! I'm a geologist, not a physicist!
The Gish Bar Times - A Blog all about Jupiter's Moon Io |
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Jul 12 2020, 01:19 AM
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#133
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Member Group: Members Posts: 706 Joined: 22-April 05 Member No.: 351 |
I'm sorry that Titan is so marvelously diverse that we can't see all of its variety in one mission. Maybe we should explore Rhea instead, to avoid this conundrum! Rhea Orbiter and Multiple Landers or bust. Your point on Titan is exactly that of this draft Decadal white paper: Titan: Earth-like on the Outside, Ocean World on the Inside A mission such as this one, Enceladus orbiter/lander, would need to use many gravity assists from the moons inside Titan's orbit, including Rhea, to match orbits with Enceladus. So not quite a Rhea orbiter/multiple landers/sample return mission, but a multi-Rhea-Dione-Tethys flyby bonus mission. -------------------- |
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Jul 30 2020, 03:50 AM
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#134
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Member Group: Members Posts: 290 Joined: 29-December 05 From: Ottawa, ON Member No.: 624 |
What's the interaction of the RTG's heat going to be in the local environment and atmosphere? That's a lot of heat interacting with a lot of cold.
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Jul 30 2020, 12:22 PM
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#135
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2077 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
There will probably be some condensation (even Huygens saw a droplet fall across the camera, I recall?). I'm sure they will do plenty of testing in a Titan simulation chamber once assembled, if that hasn't already been done for the individual components. We will know it is real when we see it flying in a chamber...
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