Russia Plans "long-lived" Venus Probe |
Russia Plans "long-lived" Venus Probe |
Guest_Myran_* |
Nov 8 2005, 05:28 AM
Post
#16
|
Guests |
The name (that really should need to be something different than 'V.D') suggest its one upgrade of one kind of other of he Venera series of landers.
If so the Russians might have decided to do something they feel they have confidence in pulling off. ilbasso: You might be right, im not aware of any other since Mars96. |
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 07:15 AM
Post
#17
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
QUOTE (mchan @ Nov 7 2005, 09:59 PM) Er, it may be an American thing, but Venera-D sounds like an abbreviated form of an old term for STD's. ElkGroveDan was polite to not put it so bluntly. Reminds me of the big marketing disaster Chevrolet faced when they tried to sell the Nova in Spanish-speaking countries. In Spanish, of course, "va" is a form of the verb of action, roughly translated as "go." And "no" is a rather universal form of negation. So, "no-va" in Spanish is pidgin for "doesn't go." And, of course, then there's the marketing of Coca-Cola in China, where the sound-alike ideographs first used to represent the brand name translated literally to "bite the wax tadpole." -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
|
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 09:55 AM
Post
#18
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2998 Joined: 30-October 04 Member No.: 105 |
QUOTE No word on the thermal strategy: Build a spacecraft that can withstand the heat. Or, use refrigeration to keep the probe cool. Or some combination of both Whew, how would refrigeration (or RTGs) be workable? Those work on temperature differentials, and how would one transfer heat into an 800 degree environment? And under enormous pressure. I'm thinking that some form of evaporative cooling might be the only feasible process. Don't undersell the Russians. For years, they've been very successful with achieving miracles with old "soviet" technology, in many ways more so that the USA's "space winnebago" misdirection. --Bill PS: let's see how this transliterates: Венера-Д is Cyrillic for Venera-D and looks less-threatening. The Russians can really be a hoot sometimes. I googled this: Russian marriage agency "Venera" is an international introduction service located in Ufa, Bashkiria. -------------------- |
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 10:40 AM
Post
#19
|
|
Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
They do have Phobos-Grunt under development for a 2009 Phobos sample return, and also a large Mars lander, although the latter has few specifics released. I doubt Venera-D will actually be its name. I think its a reference to Venera 1-3 (Venera 8) Venera 4-8 (V- Venera 9-16 and the Vegas (Venera -C). That sequence may be a little off, in terms of what number goes where, but I do know that it is where the "D" comes from.
-------------------- |
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 01:30 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Newbie Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 6-November 05 From: Bexleyheath, Kent, United Kingdom Member No.: 545 |
QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Nov 8 2005, 09:55 AM) Surely an evaporative system would contaminate the local environment, rather negating the point of operating on the surface for a month. If the name Venera (which is Russian for Venus) is going to cause so much hilarity, heaven help us if NASA anounce they are going to send a probe to Uranus. -------------------- "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."
The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001 |
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 02:34 PM
Post
#21
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-September 05 From: Sweden Member No.: 499 |
I have already seen this, at the ESA site i believe. I'm serious. I promise.
|
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 02:41 PM
Post
#22
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2454 Joined: 8-July 05 From: NGC 5907 Member No.: 430 |
QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 8 2005, 08:30 AM) Surely an evaporative system would contaminate the local environment, rather negating the point of operating on the surface for a month. If the name Venera (which is Russian for Venus) is going to cause so much hilarity, heaven help us if NASA anounce they are going to send a probe to Uranus. Carl Sagan tried to get references to Venus renamed Cytherian, but his Harvard colleagues in the 1960s felt otherwise on the matter. I think Cytheria has a definite romantic sound to it. For those who recall the Voyager 2 mission to Uranus in 1986, the planet's name kept getting pronounced differently (with a lower case a) by the media as the probe got closer. One hopes that a world will not be ignored by science just because its name may sound funny to the public. -------------------- "After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance. I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard, and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft." - Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853 |
|
|
Guest_BruceMoomaw_* |
Nov 8 2005, 02:53 PM
Post
#23
|
Guests |
Originally Gordon Chin's Discovery proposal for a "VESPER" Venus orbiter -- which made the finalist list once, and which he's proposing again this time) was named "Venus 2000". I tried to look it up on Google under that name once and was deluged with ads for sex toys. It is probably not coincidence that shortly thereafter it was renamed "VESPER".
As for "Uranus" -- that unfortunate planet whose name sounds obscene no matter how you pronounce it -- Kingsley Amis notes that back in 1961 there was a Swedish movie called "Voyage to the Seventh Planet", in which the actors kept referring to it as "U-rah-nus". |
|
|
Guest_BruceMoomaw_* |
Nov 8 2005, 02:56 PM
Post
#24
|
Guests |
Meanwhile, Uranus don't seem to get no respect at the moment from the planetary science community itself, apparently because they think of it as a Grade-B Neptune, which is unfair. A few years ago, at a meeting of the Decadal Science discussion group, one guy was about to present a talk on Uranus exploration when Reta Beebe (who, by the way, has a spectacularly foul mouth) snapped, "You mean you're actually going to make a case for exploring that boring planet and its scrawny little moons?"
|
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 03:44 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 345 Joined: 2-May 05 Member No.: 372 |
|
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 03:52 PM
Post
#26
|
|
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
When I had to teach a fifth grade classroom about Uranus I let them all have a good laugh at me (and them) pronouncing it "Your Anus" and "Urine Us" and then I wrote the following on the board: "You're a Nuss!" and had them all turn to each other and accuse each other of being Nusses. After a brief bit of speculation on what a Nuss could possibly be we moved on and the fifth graders were able to handle talking about Uranus. Unfortunately my husband still can't handle it. Every time I tell him about a new mission to some place he asks "But when are they going to send a mission to Uranus?" and then cracks up. Sigh. I get no respect. Anyway, in the spirit of "any publicity is good publicity" I expect that if a mission ever gets on the books for Uranus its unfortunate name can only help; it will be the best-known space mission among people who listen to shock jocks, watch Jon Stewart for their primary source of news, etc. Howard Stern won't be able to stop talking about it.
--Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
|
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 04:18 PM
Post
#27
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-September 05 From: Sweden Member No.: 499 |
|
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 04:19 PM
Post
#28
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2454 Joined: 8-July 05 From: NGC 5907 Member No.: 430 |
QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 8 2005, 10:52 AM) When I had to teach a fifth grade classroom about Uranus I let them all have a good laugh at me (and them) pronouncing it "Your Anus" and "Urine Us" and then I wrote the following on the board: "You're a Nuss!" and had them all turn to each other and accuse each other of being Nusses. After a brief bit of speculation on what a Nuss could possibly be we moved on and the fifth graders were able to handle talking about Uranus. Unfortunately my husband still can't handle it. Every time I tell him about a new mission to some place he asks "But when are they going to send a mission to Uranus?" and then cracks up. Sigh. I get no respect. Anyway, in the spirit of "any publicity is good publicity" I expect that if a mission ever gets on the books for Uranus its unfortunate name can only help; it will be the best-known space mission among people who listen to shock jocks, watch Jon Stewart for their primary source of news, etc. Howard Stern won't be able to stop talking about it. --Emily You can also blame the 1982 film E.T. for the unfortunate name association. Speilberg threw in one of the minor characters making jokes on the planet name in order to get a PG rating; that act seemed to have created an unfortunate awareness among the public. Perhaps we should have stayed with Herschel's original suggestion of naming it after King George III. -------------------- "After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance. I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard, and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft." - Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853 |
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 04:22 PM
Post
#29
|
|
Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
Yes, NASA announcing that it wants to probe Uranus would be great fodder for Leno and Letterman.
-------------------- |
|
|
Nov 8 2005, 04:22 PM
Post
#30
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2454 Joined: 8-July 05 From: NGC 5907 Member No.: 430 |
QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 7 2005, 03:24 PM) No word on the thermal strategy: Build a spacecraft that can withstand the heat. Or, use refrigeration to keep the probe cool. Or some combination of both. A probe that was built to withstand the heat might well last indefinitely, much longer than a month. Would this be the first Soviet/Russian spacecraft to use an RTG? I think they have been able to rely upon batteries and solar panels thus far. The next question is what a long-lived probe's long life would be for. Data on wind/temperature/pressure variations would be interesting, but may turn out to be boringly constant. It's possible that wind would blow some dust around, but that's no guarantee. Skyward looking cameras could show variation in cloud structure blowing overhead. One baseline instrument that seems to me to provide a clear need for life beyond an hour would be a seismograph, which is of diminished value without a long life span. Additionally, if there is a sampling/instrument arm, then arbitrarily long mission durations could yield the benefit of more sampling, especially with irradiative spectrometers that require long integration times. Maybe a long, double-jointed arm could scan a grid around the lander, moving a small suite of MER-like instruments carefully around the base. It would then be essential to keep the arm's movements from interfering with the seismometer. While I have no illusions regarding the complexity this would add to such a mission, perhaps the lander could be attached to a balloon that would periodically rise into the cooler heights, then settle down somewhere else for a while. Perhaps a lack of longevity can be made up for in visiting more places on Venus. -------------------- "After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance. I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard, and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft." - Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853 |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 28th April 2024 - 11:08 AM |
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |