IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

18 Pages V  « < 6 7 8 9 10 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Wheel Trouble, ...down to 5 good wheels?
mars_armer
post Mar 18 2006, 10:29 PM
Post #106


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 90
Joined: 13-January 05
Member No.: 143



Sorry for the flood of pictures, but here's one more corrected view that makes it easy to see how much they pivoted around the RF wheel:

Attached Image


About 45 degree yaw. I take back what I said... the situation doesn't seem too bad; they can probably just back straight up with no problem.

QUOTE (Shaka @ Mar 18 2006, 02:20 PM) *
I guess I'm not as adept at understanding the 'language' of the wheels as you are. Can you explain how to interpret the haz photos? I would say that the left-rear wheel (facing front) has run into the 'popcorn mesa' and been unable to climb it (or else we just stopped at this point by programming). As a result the other wheels churned a bit and the forward wheels (facing aft) slid a little to the left before we stopped. Can we carry on and run over the popcorn, or do we need to skirt it to the left? Or is that what we are about to find out? unsure.gif

I'm just guessing like everyone else. Looks to me like one of two things happened. Either they lost traction on the right middle/rear wheels (the ones leading the stuck wheel as they drive backwards), and the other 3 wheels pivoted them around the dragging wheel. Or the stuck wheel snagged a stubborn subsurface rock. Either way, you need to back up, change direction a bit, and move along.

Presumably this kind of occurrence will be common from now on. I would think JPL is working on algorithm enhancements to prevent and/or automatically recover from situations like this so they don't lose driving opportunities.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mhoward
post Mar 19 2006, 12:20 AM
Post #107


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 3431
Joined: 11-August 04
From: USA
Member No.: 98



Navcam mosaic from from Sol 781, showing where we started dragging:

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jeff7
post Mar 19 2006, 07:12 AM
Post #108


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 477
Joined: 2-March 05
Member No.: 180



QUOTE (mars_armer @ Mar 18 2006, 05:29 PM) *
Sorry for the flood of pictures, but here's one more corrected view that makes it easy to see how much they pivoted around the RF wheel:

Attached Image


About 45 degree yaw. I take back what I said... the situation doesn't seem too bad; they can probably just back straight up with no problem.
I'm just guessing like everyone else. Looks to me like one of two things happened. Either they lost traction on the right middle/rear wheels (the ones leading the stuck wheel as they drive backwards), and the other 3 wheels pivoted them around the dragging wheel. Or the stuck wheel snagged a stubborn subsurface rock. Either way, you need to back up, change direction a bit, and move along.

Presumably this kind of occurrence will be common from now on. I would think JPL is working on algorithm enhancements to prevent and/or automatically recover from situations like this so they don't lose driving opportunities.


I don't know - look at the hazcam pics in the drive direction. It looks like they might have made an intentional end-of-drive turn.
And look at the tracks - they are fairly straight despite the draggin wheel. It seems like they're compensating reasonably well, possibly with a modification of the previous 5-wheel mode.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_Bobby_*
post Mar 19 2006, 08:54 AM
Post #109





Guests






With the wheel now turned completely sideways. How much stress can the wheel take? Is there a chance that driving with the wheel turned sideways like this rip the wheel off?

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...74P1209R0M1.JPG

And if Spirit did lose the wheel. Can it drive ok with 5 wheels??? unsure.gif

Hope for a Dust Devil soon also dd.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Mar 19 2006, 09:10 AM
Post #110


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14432
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



I can't believe I'm saying this again....there is no evidence that a dust devil ever cleaned Spirit. Some of the cleaning events happened overnight. You don't get DD's at night. Further more - the fact that there was a clear lack of cleaning 'downwind' from the HGA shows that it wasnt a spiralling whirlwind, but simply strong local winds in a constant direction that cleaned Spirit.

What we need is a big hill - the sort of place that has strong winds - not a DD - not to mention the fact that the DD season is long finished.

Doug
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pirex
post Mar 19 2006, 01:27 PM
Post #111


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 19-March 06
Member No.: 716



QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 19 2006, 09:10 AM) *
I can't believe I'm saying this again....there is no evidence that a dust devil ever cleaned Spirit. Some of the cleaning events happened overnight. You don't get DD's at night. Further more - the fact that there was a clear lack of cleaning 'downwind' from the HGA shows that it wasnt a spiralling whirlwind, but simply strong local winds in a constant direction that cleaned Spirit.

What we need is a big hill - the sort of place that has strong winds - not a DD - not to mention the fact that the DD season is long finished.

Doug


Doug,

Your comments sound interesting. I have never heard about strong winds other than DDs? Do you have any info on this?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Mar 19 2006, 01:42 PM
Post #112


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14432
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



Listen to or read the Steve Squyres Q'n'A I did .

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=1683

Doug
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jaywee
post Mar 19 2006, 04:12 PM
Post #113


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 25-April 05
From: Pilsen, CZ, EU
Member No.: 363



QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 19 2006, 01:20 AM) *
Navcam mosaic from from Sol 781, showing where we started dragging:


I wonder - doesn't the dragged track look a bit like the Magic Carpet?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mhoward
post Mar 19 2006, 06:11 PM
Post #114


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 3431
Joined: 11-August 04
From: USA
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (jaywee @ Mar 19 2006, 04:12 PM) *
I wonder - doesn't the dragged track look a bit like the Magic Carpet?


I thought exactly the same thing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stardust9906
post Mar 19 2006, 10:58 PM
Post #115


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 20-April 05
From: UK
Member No.: 282



QUOTE (Bobby @ Mar 19 2006, 08:54 AM) *
With the wheel now turned completely sideways. How much stress can the wheel take? Is there a chance that driving with the wheel turned sideways like this rip the wheel off?


I don't think the wheel has turned sideways. What has happened is that the Rover has slewed around so that it is sideways on.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pirex
post Mar 19 2006, 11:15 PM
Post #116


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 19-March 06
Member No.: 716



delete
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AndyG
post Mar 20 2006, 10:16 AM
Post #117


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 593
Joined: 20-April 05
Member No.: 279



QUOTE (mhoward @ Mar 19 2006, 06:11 PM) *
I thought exactly the same thing.

Is there a topographic/contour map for this area - the last I could find on the MER Mission site stops before Homeplate?

Andy
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RNeuhaus
post Mar 20 2006, 03:01 PM
Post #118


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1636
Joined: 9-May 05
From: Lima, Peru
Member No.: 385



I have a pair comments about Spirit's new situation.

First, I am thinking a possible better solution to minimize the dragging of the front right wheel is that the rover don't go straight in comparision to the troubled wheel but try to go in the same line as the troubled wheel. That is in order to minimize the width of friction. That is only a tought.

The other comment, the dragging wheel would provide a good chance to know better the different types of land: dark and light color which is the indication of the different degrees of sulfate process.

Meanwhile, I hope that at any moment the friction force will turn on again the troubled wheel during its struggling dragging.

Rodolfo
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Mar 20 2006, 03:18 PM
Post #119


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14432
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Mar 20 2006, 03:01 PM) *
First, I am thinking a possible better solution to minimize the dragging of the front right wheel is that the rover don't go straight in comparision to the troubled wheel but try to go in the same line as the troubled wheel. That is in order to minimize the width of friction. That is an only a tought.


I think you might be missing the problem. The problem is driving the wheel, not turning it. They can turn the wheel left and right, i.e. have it in the direction it would normally be for driving. What they can't do is DRIVE the wheel.

For comparison, Opportunity has a wheel that is steering-locked just off centre, but still driveable - and they're doing quite well with it.

Doug
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RNeuhaus
post Mar 20 2006, 03:29 PM
Post #120


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1636
Joined: 9-May 05
From: Lima, Peru
Member No.: 385



Good for the clarification. Thanks

Then why the wheel was not aligned to the direction. Let suppose that unaligned wheel was leading greater friction on the surface. From this view, I am re-thinking that the diagonal position (45 degree to the motion direction) is the best position that minimizes the friction because the wheel surface has small "carets"? that is perpendicular to the direction.

Rodolfo
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

18 Pages V  « < 6 7 8 9 10 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th April 2024 - 07:39 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.