Spirit - 2010 Winter@Troy, The first stationary science campaign |
Spirit - 2010 Winter@Troy, The first stationary science campaign |
Feb 1 2010, 12:48 AM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
Well, with perhaps a few more weeks of tilt-enhancing drives to go and then settling in for the winter, I thought it might be a good time to have a thread dedicated to ideas and observations that will come. It's likely that we won't hear much from Spirit during the coldest part of winter (April-June) possibly longer. There'll hopefully be beeps to tell us that she's still alive.
Already there are plans for radio science and determining the fluidity or otherwise of the Martian core, plus weather observations, surface changes etc. What else could you think of that Spirit could do? Remember that she's not going anywhere (vonBraun is out) In the meantime, have you sent your postcard to Spirit yet?! It's a great idea from the Mars outreach team. http://beamartian.jpl.nasa.gov/spiritpostcards What would you say to Spirit? |
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Feb 1 2010, 12:05 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1089 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
Now, let's derive some experience from the mission of Viking Lander 1, an active static lander for 6.5 years...
We did : 1. digging trenches (soil analysis AND soil mechanics) ; 2. long-term surface change surveys ; 3. monitoring dust storms (at that time we were not aware of dust devils) ; 4. "Marsquakes" surveys ; 5. sky dynamics surveys (i.e. for opacity and search for clouds) ; 6. Phobos & Deïmos imaging (i.e. also for dust opacity) ; 7. full 360° hi-res panoramic pics taken : early morning (7:30 am), at noon, early afternoon (15:00 pm) and some sections at sunset (i.e. 17:00 pm) ; 8. meteorology (temperature + pressure + wind direction). I think nearly all the same goals can be met with Spirit as a stationary lander, with : - wheels and/or the IDD for (1) ; - the cameras for (2), (3), (5), (6) and (7) ; - the inertial measurement unit (which provides 3-axis information on position) for (4) if sensitive enough ; - some heaters consumptions from which an outside temp can be derived for (8) and dust movements on the solar panels for long-term wind directions for (8) also... Well... still a lot of GOOD SCIENCE to expect from Spirit ! AND.. let's imagine Spirit sending back to Earth spectacular images such as romantic full hi-res 360° sunrise or sunset panoramas with rocks casting long shadows... Now, let's have a "positive Spirit" ! |
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Feb 1 2010, 03:17 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1619 Joined: 12-February 06 From: Bergerac - FR Member No.: 678 |
So, I think there is something cool to do about full 360° pan. This is to do a super-res 360° pan, in B&W taken with the L1/R1 filters (so blank) for the super-res and in the same with the full set of filter, and compose a super-res color pan. This will lead to have the biggest pan we ever had of Mars. This will be a pretty hard imagery mission but this is my "little dream" .
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Feb 1 2010, 03:50 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
I would love to see such a "beast" panorama but I don't see it happening.
The reason would be the lack of power / memory space / bandwidth to manage it in a reasonable timeframe. PS: I suppose you mean L7/R1 filters. |
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Feb 1 2010, 05:50 PM
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#5
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Maybe they can finally do that rover MI self-portrait though! Though I don't expect she'll have power to before winter sets in. First job is winter survival, then we can have all this stationary science.
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 1 2010, 06:13 PM
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#6
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 22-March 09 From: West Hartford, Connecicut Member No.: 4691 |
As a permanent station the ability to go back to a specific location over time might be an idea for study to visit several times for more specific study of data found. Is there any time line set up now?
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Feb 1 2010, 10:38 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
I know that they plan to look at microchanges in soil particle movement over time using the MI.
It'd be interesting if they could brush clean a conveniently located flat rock surface and then watch the dust deposition that occurs and particle movement over time. |
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Feb 4 2010, 01:30 AM
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#8
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 19-January 10 From: Grimsby, N.E. Lincs, UK Member No.: 5179 |
I don't want to worry anyone but according to the latest report on the official site Spirit is down to 182W!
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Feb 4 2010, 01:59 AM
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#9
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 25-May 09 Member No.: 4794 |
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Feb 4 2010, 04:00 AM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1887 Joined: 20-November 04 From: Iowa Member No.: 110 |
I guess that explains the absence of new images downloaded from the last few sols.
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Feb 4 2010, 09:38 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
Tasks were sequenced to be executed from 2162 up to 2165, including a drive on that latest sol which should be today, but no data has been downlinked since after sol 2161. My interpretation is that they are not making everyday UHF downlink sessions in order to store energy for this latest drive attempt.
RE the report, its an "old one" from a week ago. We may have a new one today or tomorrow. |
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Feb 4 2010, 11:30 AM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 25-May 09 Member No.: 4794 |
I don't want to worry anyone but according to the latest report on the official site Spirit is down to 182W! @Spirit followers. May I please beg your humble forgiveness from my previous post, I wasn't trying to be agro NW71 I just picked a crappy emoticon to show my concern for our little buddy. Hope no offense was caused. |
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Feb 4 2010, 12:22 PM
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#13
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 19-January 10 From: Grimsby, N.E. Lincs, UK Member No.: 5179 |
Mixer, no offence taken!
To be fair, I should have posted the link, but I'm afraid my technical ability is very poor and thus I was unable to do so (I am working on it). I think we've all slammed the desk or similar at some point recently following our brave Spirit rover! My dog Ben has never had so many walks! Neil |
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Feb 4 2010, 12:27 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1045 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 4605 |
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Feb 4 2010, 12:49 PM
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#15
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
What gives you the idea that they've been intentionally tilting south? Anything other than a norther tilt is an unfortunate and unintentional side effect of extraction, or hope for improved northerly tilt
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Feb 4 2010, 04:22 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 28-October 08 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 4469 |
He might have been alluding to Ashley's comment found in the latest TPS report:
QUOTE "The strategy we have for Spirit getting the tilt better [takes us] through a couple of days of it getting worse before a turn around," Stroupe explained. |
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Feb 4 2010, 05:44 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
I haven't seen any decrease in northern tilt for the time being.
And again. That 182Wh figure is from a week ago, sol 2158, before the last drive during sol 2161 where we saw an increase of the northern tilt. Better wait for the next status report. |
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Feb 5 2010, 04:10 AM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1045 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 4605 |
Indeed Poolio. From that report quote
'Spirit was slated to drive on 2161 (January 30, 2010) but the results were not available by presstime. The latest data clearly indicate the tilt to the north has degraded or gotten worse. "Before we started driving backwards, we were roughly at 4 degrees southerly tilt. Now, we're roughly in about 10 degrees southerly tilt," Matijevic informed last Friday. But this was expected and should be temporary.' |
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Guest_Sunspot_* |
Feb 12 2010, 12:05 PM
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#19
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How low do they expect power levels to drop in terms of watts. Didn't Opportunity drop below 100W during the dust storm a year or so ago?
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Feb 12 2010, 12:36 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 30-December 05 Member No.: 628 |
With regard to the liquid/solid core question, that seems like something really fundamental and important that Spirit can accomplish in her remaining days. I'm not clear on all the details, but I understand that if the rover remains absolutely stationary for a long enough period, very precise measurements can be taken of the planet's rate of spin and precession of the spin axis, and from these conclusions can be drawn about what's going on inside. For a better understanding, I'd be interested to hear informed opinions on the following issues:
A. How long is "long enough"? Do I recall having seen an estimate of "six months" somewhere on the web? B. Within that time period, does the experiment require a series of observations at regular intervals, or just one "before" and one "after" with no rover movement in between? C. How will the rover's precise position be determined? Optically, with the use of Hi-Rise, or by some triangulation procedure involving the three working orbiters? Or is there some way to do it from Earth? D. Just how much precision can be obtained with whatever method is to be used? It sounds like probably a resolution of centimeters is required, but even earth-based military grade GPS is not that accurate, is it? E. Does the rover have to cease all other activities and remain perfectly motionless during the entire observation period for fear of introducing spurious motions into the experiment? F. If the rover doesn't make it through the winter, can the experiment be concluded passively by a "dead" rover? (Sorry about that last one everybody, but really, what more could any of us wish for than to be able to continue doing worthwhile work in the afterlife...) |
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Feb 12 2010, 12:51 PM
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#21
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
A - Six months is what I have seen as well
B - A series, I believe. C - DDOR from the DSN. It's accurate to an extraordinary degree (and is nothing like GPS) D - Centimetres is what they need, and what they'll get. E - It's a case of not moving. The arm and camera past can, I presume, still be used. F - No. It's a case of tracking the radio signal it's transmitting. No transmission, no experiment. |
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Feb 12 2010, 01:10 PM
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 30-December 05 Member No.: 628 |
I remember in grade school, we learned to spin the Easter Eggs on the table to determine if they were hard-boiled or not. This must be a planetary-scale variant of the same technique. (All you out-reachers take note!)
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Feb 12 2010, 02:38 PM
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#23
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
One small correction -- I've been told Spirit can actually roll a few centimeters while the experiment is still going on, so there could be motion first thing in spring when power levels start going back up.
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 12 2010, 03:25 PM
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 28-October 08 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 4469 |
Spirit had an all time low of 86 whr during the regional dust storm of November 2008. That's an unsustainable level of course, but it only lasted for a few days and Spirit was able to live off her batteries until the situation improved.
I think Opportunity's lowest power level was around 128 whr during the global storm in July 2007. I don't know how low they expect the power levels to get for Spirit this winter, but I would imagine it doesn't matter that much. Whether the batteries take three days or three weeks to drain, she will still need to endure some lengthy period of being subjected to the unmitigated chill of winter. |
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Feb 12 2010, 03:55 PM
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 28-October 08 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 4469 |
Thinking about the "hibernation" period for Spirit some more, I have a couple questions. Forgive me if these have been covered before; I don't recall seeing anything...
Once she has "shut down" and is hibernating, is it correct to assume that Spirit will not be consuming any power? If so, wouldn't that mean that what little power the panels do generate each day (whether its 10 whr or 100) would go into charging the batteries? And if that's the case, could we expect Spirit to wake up periodically throughout the winter and try to make contact? (Even though the simple act of waking up may prompt her to trip a low-power fault again.) During any brief periods of wakefulness, would the computers generate enough heat to provide some warmth to the WEB? And (finally!) would such temperature cycles be helpful or harmful to her chances of long term survival? Sorry for all the hypotheticals. I know that the hibernation period has been discussed, but I don't recall seeing anything about the possible effects of cyclic sleeping and waking. |
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Feb 12 2010, 05:04 PM
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#26
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
is it correct to assume that Spirit will not be consuming any power? .......would the computers generate enough heat to provide some warmth to the WEB? And (finally!) would such temperature cycles be helpful or harmful to her chances of long term survival? Back in the pre-Victoria entry power crisis, but that was nearly 3 years ago, so I'm working off unreliable memories here... These documents may help : http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/13037 http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/13105 http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/37750 http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/17736 in particular QUOTE The response to low batteries or power faults does not use the scheduled communication windows. If the rover is awake when a low battery situation occurs, the flight software has 60 seconds to quickly shut down before the BCB removes the batteries from the power bus. If it is nighttime when the BCB detects a low battery condition, the BCB takes the battery offline and the power bus crashes. Eventually, when the sun rises, the solar array power supports the bus and the BCB. As the batteries charge back up, the BCB puts them back online to support the bus. At the next solar wakeup, the flight software schedules one LGA communication window at a predetermined hour (11:00 LST) to report to Earth. No UHF windows are attempted because these usually occur in the early morning or late afternoon, when the available solar power is low. The vehicle remains in this configuration (with autonomous shutdown mode active, in receive mode via the LGA, performing one DTE window per day) until the operations team reconfigures the vehicle to resume normal operations As I understand it, the Rover Battery Control Board ( RBCB / BCB ) remains on - managing and measuring the power generated by the arrays and the battery, and issuing wakeup to the main computer based on either a specific power being generated or a timer. How, exactly, this will tie in to brown outs, low power faults etc, I don't know Also - there are RHU's within the WEB to generate a certain ammount of heat. As for thermal cycles, every single day-night cycle is a thermal cycle and every single one runs the risk of a solder fracturing or a wire breaking. |
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Feb 12 2010, 08:32 PM
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#27
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
How low do they expect power levels to drop in terms of watts. Didn't Opportunity drop below 100W during the dust storm a year or so ago? Another point to always keep in mind is that previous lows during dust storms were during the warm summer, when the heating power requirements were less than during winter. So 100 Whrs for Spirit this winter isn't the same as 100 Whrs for her in the summer. |
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Feb 12 2010, 08:42 PM
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#28
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
Some details in this update. It looks like preparations for the winter, and the stationary science campaign have begun:
QUOTE This week the rover team is uploading schedules to Spirit for when to communicate with Earth or with the orbiting Mars Odyssey during the rest of this year and into 2011. Spirit will use these schedules whenever it has adequate power to wake up. Spirit will take a set of "before" images of surroundings from the parked position this week, for comparison with images in the Martian spring to study effects of wind. Images toward the south will also aid preparations for possible future drives... Other preparations for winter will include putting the robotic arm into a position for studies of atmospheric composition when power is available and changing the stow positions of the high-gain antenna and panoramic camera to minimize shadowing of the solar panels.
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Feb 12 2010, 09:16 PM
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#29
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Guess that's it, then; our girl is hunkering down for the long, hard winter. But we'll keep her company here, on UMSF, that's for sure.
The rubbing sound you can hear is the sound of thousands and thousands of fingers around the world being crossed. -------------------- |
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Feb 12 2010, 10:40 PM
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 507 Joined: 10-September 08 Member No.: 4338 |
I assume there is no danger of the flash memory anomaly returning while Spirit is incommunicado?
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Feb 13 2010, 12:06 AM
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#31
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 4763 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Glendale, AZ Member No.: 197 |
The flash memory anomaly is now very well understood and there is a lot of easy to find discussion of it.
The short answer is, no. The programming error that caused the flash memory to fill up was fixed on both rovers once the problem was identified. There is no chance of that particular problem of ever recurring. -------------------- If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
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Feb 13 2010, 01:46 PM
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#32
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
Is there anything published about Spirit's "moment of inertia" experiment? I can't find anything...
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Feb 13 2010, 04:48 PM
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 28-October 08 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 4469 |
Wow, Doug, thanks for all the relevant info. I will delve into those documents in my copious free time (!), but the quote you highlighted and your follow-on comments were very illuminating.
So the rover does consume a minimal amount of power and the BCB "stays awake" even during hibernation. This also explains questions I had about how the rover wakes up -- what triggers the event that prompts the comm attempt. This must be different from Phoenix who suffered no sunlight and therefore no power for many months. I assume that if you dropped Spirit into the arctic circle at winter, she would become irrevocably dead. The excerpt also sheds some light on the latest JPL update that talks about adjusting the comm window for the winter. And somehow I never knew that the rovers had RHU's in their bellies.... So there are 8 RHU's generating 1 W each. Winter temps are expected to reach -40C. Does anyone know what the resulting temperature would be in the WEB given these parameters? |
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Feb 13 2010, 08:20 PM
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 646 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Forest of Dean Member No.: 617 |
When I win the lottery, I'm funding a start-up to develop immortal batteries, capable of surviving months of no charge and then recharging. Oh, and electronic components capable of surviving, say, 200 degree thermal cycles indefinitely. Hopefully there'll be enough left over for Doug's pony, too
-------------------- --
Viva software libre! |
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Feb 14 2010, 06:55 AM
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
There are 801.9 Mb of imagery data and an unknown amount of spectroscopy and telemetry data stored in flash. Since flash is volatile memory, will it be cleared if a low power fault is tripped?
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Feb 14 2010, 09:01 AM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 206 Joined: 15-August 07 From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire Member No.: 3233 |
There are 801.9 Mb of imagery data and an unknown amount of spectroscopy and telemetry data stored in flash. Since flash is volatile memory, will it be cleared if a low power fault is tripped? Flash is none-volatile memory. I do not believe that so much data could have built up in Flash if it was volatle. I presume that much of this data predates that last time that Spirit was told to sleep overnight and so would have been cleared if flash was volatile. I guess that many of these pictures were taken in a search for dust devils and represent frames in which no dust devils were found. They may therefore never be returned to Earth. |
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Feb 14 2010, 09:28 AM
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
My bad. For some reason I thought that the flash memory was volatile.
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Feb 14 2010, 08:23 PM
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#38
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Greetings everyone. Longtime lurker here (since the mer.rlproject.com days!) and I finally have a question that I can't find the answer too. Here goes:
The Viking landers lasted for many years on the Martian surface, immobile. Is there some technical reason their comm. data cannot be used for measurements of Mars's interior, like the long-term plans are for Spirit? I'm just asking because I find it hard to believe that no one would use that 30+ year old data to do the same things we're doing now. There must be some good reason they can't be used. Thanks, and keep up the good work keeping this place great! |
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Feb 14 2010, 08:48 PM
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#39
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
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Feb 14 2010, 09:25 PM
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#40
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 11-September 09 Member No.: 4937 |
The Viking landers lasted for many years on the Martian surface, immobile. Is there some technical reason their comm. data cannot be used for measurements of Mars's interior, like the long-term plans are for Spirit? I believe Squyres said in one of his interviews that the Vikings did not collect the appropriate type of data. Sorry, no link. |
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Feb 14 2010, 10:14 PM
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#41
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: 14-July 06 Member No.: 972 |
The Viking landers lasted for many years on the Martian surface, immobile. Is there some technical reason their comm. data cannot be used for measurements of Mars's interior, like the long-term plans are for Spirit? My understanding of the experiment is that what they will be looking at is the DSN tracking data rather than anything generated on-board Spirit herself. Thus, we'd have to look to upgrades to the DSN or improved knowledge of Earth's rotation and orbit for the explanation. It's a good question though. Eluchil |
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Feb 14 2010, 10:36 PM
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#42
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
I asked Squyres about past landers during the January press briefing (when prodded to by Doug!). He said that the Viking radio system wasn't the right type to permit the precise tracking required. They had S-band radio, the rovers use X-band. I think that's the reason. They did do tracking with Pathfinder, but the mission didn't last long enough.
--Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 14 2010, 10:51 PM
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#43
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Well that explains it. Thanks for the quick reply! Hopefully Spirit will last long enough to be able to do this.
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Feb 15 2010, 02:59 AM
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#44
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: 19-April 05 Member No.: 251 |
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Feb 15 2010, 03:46 AM
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#45
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
That would make sense. I don't know, though.
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 15 2010, 04:23 AM
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 10-October 06 From: Maynard Mass USA Member No.: 1241 |
Here is the MI images of the final parking spot of Spirit
(as Doug said, others may do a better job of sharpening... mine has brightness discontinuities between images...oh well!) -------------------- CLA CLL
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Feb 15 2010, 08:08 AM
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#47
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Couple of new 3D views here...
http://twitpic.com/13dfni http://twitpic.com/13dfrz And a new blog post here: http://cumbriansky.wordpress.com/2010/02/1...soon-will-sleep Don't read it if you're not a fully paid up member of the Rover Hugger Club; you'll just upset yourself. -------------------- |
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Feb 15 2010, 10:04 AM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
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Feb 15 2010, 10:10 AM
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#49
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
It's been said before, and often - Don't bet against Spirit, it's a great way of losing money...
Spirit's adventure is far from over yet, of that I'm sure. -------------------- |
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Feb 15 2010, 08:29 PM
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#50
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
They had S-band radio, the rovers use X-band. I think that's the reason. They did do tracking with Pathfinder, but the mission didn't last long enough. Results from Pathfinder were published in Interior Structure and Seasonal Mass Redistribution of Mars from Radio Tracking of Mars Pathfinder the "superiority" MPF's (and Spirit's) X-band over Viking's S-band is explained in note 8: QUOTE The Pathfinder radio system operates at X band (8 GHz) compared with the S-band (2 GHz) radio system used by the Viking landers. The Doppler data noise caused by solar plasma is inversely proportional to the square of the radio frequency. The Pathfinder Doppler data have about 13 times less noise than the Viking lander Doppler data. The Doppler data noise is about 0.05 mm/s for data at 60-s intervals. The solar plasma also affects the round-trip range measurements. Calibrations for the solar plasma for some of the Viking lander data were determined from dual-frequency observations of the Viking orbiters. The Viking ranging data have a residual noise of ~7 m for data with orbiter calibrations and ~12 m for data with no orbiter calibrations. The Pathfinder ranging data taken so far have residuals of ~3 m.
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Feb 19 2010, 11:02 AM
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
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Feb 19 2010, 01:39 PM
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#52
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Forum Contributor Group: Members Posts: 1372 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
I assume they will have time to upload the table before spirit goes "night night" ?
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Feb 21 2010, 07:01 AM
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#53
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1045 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 4605 |
Anyone know what the final aspect was? How much of a northerly tilt did they end up with?
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Feb 21 2010, 10:02 AM
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#54
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 25-May 09 Member No.: 4794 |
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Feb 21 2010, 01:09 PM
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#55
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1444 Joined: 26-July 08 Member No.: 4270 |
To the south? I thought they were angled north now?
-------------------- -- Hungry4info (Sirius_Alpha)
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Feb 21 2010, 01:44 PM
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#56
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 23-November 08 Member No.: 4493 |
No, Spirit is tilted 9 degrees toward the south :
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/20100211a.html |
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Feb 22 2010, 06:15 AM
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#57
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Member Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: 21-December 07 From: Clatskanie, Oregon Member No.: 3988 |
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Feb 22 2010, 01:58 PM
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#58
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Forum Contributor Group: Members Posts: 1372 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
Yes the tilt is South, time, energy and luck ran out for getting Spirit into a Northerly tilt. A bit like what happened to Phoenix, in the end sunlight rules what you can do and cannnot do.
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Feb 22 2010, 02:27 PM
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#59
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Spirit is such a drama queen sometimes. I'm reasonably confident of a revival and a cleaning come next spring, but it's going to be a nail biting 2010 for our old gal.
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Feb 22 2010, 02:49 PM
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#60
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 21-February 10 Member No.: 5226 |
Here is the IDD work volume pan taken between sol's 2163-2176 with L257. Lots of color variations in the soil The fine lamination of the rock in the center of the pic is quite interesting. seems like a clay deposit (deep water???). I hope there'll be some future detailed analysis of that. |
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Feb 22 2010, 05:20 PM
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#61
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
That rock looks like countless thousands more just to our east on the edge of homeplate.
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Feb 23 2010, 04:14 PM
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#62
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1089 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
tau is indeed very low : look at the contrast on the surface, details on the hills, and at the dark sky...
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...7MP0703L0M1.JPG |
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Feb 24 2010, 02:36 AM
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#63
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Member Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central California Member No.: 45 |
I'm anticipating seeing something we wouldn't have seen if we'd kept moving. Maybe standing still will be a good thing too.
-------------------- Eric P / MizarKey
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Feb 27 2010, 11:41 AM
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#64
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1444 Joined: 26-July 08 Member No.: 4270 |
Physorg is running a story
"Spirit's Journey to the Center of Mars" http://www.physorg.com/news186415686.html They're talking about Spirit's science campaign to determine Mars' interior, but ... darn if that isn't ironic considering the recent drives. -------------------- -- Hungry4info (Sirius_Alpha)
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Mar 1 2010, 07:23 PM
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#65
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 23-February 09 From: Edmonton, Alberta Member No.: 4611 |
via twitter
@elakdawalla Ray Arvidson: Spirit's last 9 drives did 39 cm, "pretty good for a lander." In spring, a couple weeks of work should get Spirit out. #lpsc (only 2 because , well, you know) |
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Mar 1 2010, 09:50 PM
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#66
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
More details in the latest planetary update. On driving in the spring:
QUOTE The rover won’t even try to turn wheels again until perhaps August or September... Then, said Arvidson, even though it's got a science campaign laid out, Spirit will probably first start driving again, since it's "almost out” of its sandy snare. With only four fully functioning wheels... “a lot of it will be very difficult,” he admitted. “We're going to have to do a lot of turning about the right hand side, so we're not going to drive far. But we're not necessarily a static lander.” Meanwhile, the engineers at JPL have already been assessing the drive capabilities with the rover replicate in the In-Situ Instrument Laboratory (ISIL), according to JPL’s Scott Lever, an MER mission manager. “We did some 4-wheel drive testing in the ISIL and did well, surprisingly well,” he said. About the success of backwards driving: QUOTE “[The wheel] wiggles seem to have solved the problem of what's called the rolling resistance, the resistance due to the soil surrounding the wheels and just making the wheels spin in place,” Arvidson said. “The wheels couldn’t go forward because there was so much pressure resisting them. Wiggling creates the space and lowers the pressure and that's why I think we got the 34 centimeters (13.38 inches) in the last 10 drives. We were wiggling as part and parcel of that activity.” The last couple of drives, he added, were shorter, due to declining power, the reason Spirit made less progress than it did during the earlier backwards drives.
The progress made also apparently eliminated the threat of Belly Rock, the pointed rock that had been touching Spirit’s underside. “We think Belly Rock is now out from under the rover,” Laubach said. |
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Mar 2 2010, 12:48 PM
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#67
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Member Group: Members Posts: 206 Joined: 15-August 07 From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire Member No.: 3233 |
latest planetary update. also contains the following quote:
Callas scheduled an ‘all-hands’ meeting at JPL to discuss the engineering realities and to make sure everyone on the team is fully aware of just how tough this winter is going to be for Spirit. The long period of silence, as well as the possibility, though seemingly unlikely at this juncture, that it may stay silent could send team members into a kind of rovershock. I wonder if "rovershock" counselling will be available for Rover fans around the World when both MER rovers cease to function. My hope is that Oppy will still be roving when MSL lands and that consequently new rover pictures will be available each day of this decade without interruption. |
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Mar 2 2010, 01:04 PM
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#68
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1444 Joined: 26-July 08 Member No.: 4270 |
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean about MSL. Shortly after NASA declared Spirit a stationary rover, it started to hit me how terribly attached to the MER rovers I was. It hurt a lot that Spirit was permanently stuck. I don't know how I will feel when Spirit and/or Opportunity cease functioning. I dread to think of it.
Phoenix was okay, we all knew it was coming, how and roughly when it would die. Never got the time to really get firmly attached to it. I can't imagine how much it will hurt those who operate the MER rovers once one of them fails. .... ugh that's a dreadful thought too. -------------------- -- Hungry4info (Sirius_Alpha)
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Mar 2 2010, 01:08 PM
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#69
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Like all the best funerals (and that's not a construct of words you use very often) it's about celebrating rather than mourning. It will be emotional, it will be frustrating, but it will be a chance to finally look back and appreciate all that has gone before.
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Mar 2 2010, 02:49 PM
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#70
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Director of Galilean Photography Group: Members Posts: 896 Joined: 15-July 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 93 |
I was just wondering this a few weeks ago. I think if MSL had kept with its original schedule, it would be wheels down on Mars now or very soon? So in my estimation, Spirit and Opportunity already made it to the party, it's MSL that's fashionably late.
-------------------- Space Enthusiast Richard Hendricks
-- "The engineers, as usual, made a tremendous fuss. Again as usual, they did the job in half the time they had dismissed as being absolutely impossible." --Rescue Party, Arthur C Clarke Mother Nature is the final inspector of all quality. |
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Mar 2 2010, 04:28 PM
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#71
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 19-December 04 Member No.: 125 |
Rovershock??? Oh Noez!!! I'll get that!
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Mar 2 2010, 09:00 PM
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#72
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Together. In the meantime, here's Spirit's latest view of the Hills... http://twitpic.com/169cql/full -------------------- |
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Mar 2 2010, 10:30 PM
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#73
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Something I've been wondering about for some time, (Mods move this if I'm posting in the wrong topic):
When/where did Spirit last catch a glimpse of the lander? I don't recall it being visible from the top of Husband Hill, due to haze and/or distance, so it must have been much earlier than that, correct? Looking at the panorama, It would be nice to see a sort of 'goodbye' image, like when Oppy left Eagle crater and took some last photos of the place. |
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Mar 2 2010, 11:32 PM
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#74
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
It's been so long since those days, and I don't recall when our last sighting of the lander was. But the reflective heatshield, and the big bright parachute were visible to at least around sol 600, ie the summit of Husband. Check out this thread.
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Mar 3 2010, 05:54 AM
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#75
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Check out this thread. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of! No chance of seeing them from down in the valley though, right? |
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Mar 4 2010, 01:30 PM
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#76
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1444 Joined: 26-July 08 Member No.: 4270 |
Probably not. I think they're on the other side of that mountain.
-------------------- -- Hungry4info (Sirius_Alpha)
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Mar 4 2010, 06:42 PM
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#77
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
I thought about looking for the heatshield (easiest to see) from the last couple of winter haven sites, but never got around to digging through the pancams. Actually, you'd first want to make sure the right azimuth was in view. The landing site was visible from both WH2 and WH3 according to jpl - they've labelled it on these pans:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/pan...pirit/2007.html http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/pan...pirit/2008.html But there are errors in those jpl pans (both incorrectly label West Spur), so you'd want to double check the azimuths. |
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Mar 4 2010, 07:05 PM
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#78
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
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Mar 4 2010, 07:34 PM
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#79
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
The azimuth is right for West Spur, but West Spur is hidden behind another promontory we used to call "Lookout Point " in the really old days. (IIRC, there was talk before the big climb began of driving up to that point for a view of the inner basin.) Check out this post for example.
Compare those jpl pans with a hirise view like this one. What we see, Lookout Point, is just to the west of Eldorado. West Spur is roughly twice as far away to the northwest. |
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Mar 4 2010, 08:10 PM
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#80
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
West Spur, however, is in that direction. 'Lookout Point' formally, is near Larrys Lookout, and I can't find any formal name for that hill. Notice they put it with a line pointing down and stopping at the top of that feature, they've not put the label ON it, like Home Plate and El Dorado. I don't think it's right to call it 'incorrectly labelled'.
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Mar 4 2010, 08:44 PM
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#81
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
"Lookout Point" was only ever an informal name, as far as I know. Here's the reference, including the story of the plan that never panned out.
I'd have to say that it seems a bit of a stretch to suppose that they meant to indicate that West Spur was behind "Lookout Point". Anyone who didn't know the geography well would assume that what they were pointing to was West Spur. Maybe the jpl people meant to add a dotted profile of the invisible West Spur but never got round to it. |
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Mar 4 2010, 08:50 PM
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#82
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
This story shows that before it was decided that Spirit could climb West Spur, one plan was to skirt the base of Husband Hill and climb to "Lookout Point" for a view of the inner basin.
Edit: Scooped by fredk! |
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Mar 6 2010, 02:28 PM
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#83
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 11-February 07 From: College Station, TX Member No.: 1709 |
Lots of Pancam pictures returned on March 3rd, including some of Stu's "lucky horseshoe" crumbling apart as Spirit moved those 39 cm! I'm sure he doesn't mind one bit
Looking forward to some color mosaics by the experts! http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pa...7MP2400L5M1.JPG |
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Mar 6 2010, 07:08 PM
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#84
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 29-January 09 Member No.: 4589 |
-------------------- Protein structures and Mars fun - http://www.flickr.com/photos/nick960/
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Mar 8 2010, 03:59 PM
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#85
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1887 Joined: 20-November 04 From: Iowa Member No.: 110 |
From roverdriver's twitter feed:
QUOTE Spirit's down to ~ 150 W-hr/sol. We might be right on the edge of losing commandability, possibly for several months. Think warm thoughts. 11:23 PM Mar 6th via web
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Mar 8 2010, 04:06 PM
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#86
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
The last status report on the project's web page already mentioned the 150Wh figure (153, actually) for sol 2191 (2nd March).
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Mar 11 2010, 03:18 AM
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#87
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
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Mar 11 2010, 04:42 AM
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#88
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Spirit 2200: sounds like some sci-fi movie title from the 50's.
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Mar 11 2010, 11:12 AM
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#89
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1089 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
YES ! Only 46 more Sols to go before beating Viking Lander 1 record for the longest Mars surface mission !
I.e. Sol 2245 (last transmission received from VL1 with latest images and meteo data from Sol 2238) + 1 Sol = Sol 2246 |
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Mar 11 2010, 08:40 PM
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#90
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2091 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
I was wondering when they'd beat that old record. Guinness book, here we come! (Crossing fingers)
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Mar 11 2010, 09:24 PM
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#91
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
Odds are we are going to be in "hibernation" (low power fault) during the breaking of the record. We will only know if she made it if we regain radio communication come spring. Scott Maxwell referred to this as "Schrödinger's Rover" on Twitter a few weeks ago.
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Mar 12 2010, 12:23 AM
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#92
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
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Mar 12 2010, 12:37 AM
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#93
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 25-May 09 Member No.: 4794 |
Odds are we are going to be in "hibernation" (low power fault) during the breaking of the record. We will only know if she made it if we regain radio communication come spring. Scott Maxwell referred to this as "Schrödinger's Rover" on Twitter a few weeks ago. Such wit. I can't believe I feel emotion about Spirit as if she were my own pet. Is it odd? I realised when I watched a video about Opportunity I don't know ANY of the people involved as I do with Spirit. Fingers & toes crossed we break the record. |
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Mar 12 2010, 12:51 AM
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#94
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
No, you've seen those people too.
Everyone has the same look of fear, angst, concern, joy, pride and satisfaction on their faces. The names may change but they are the parent's, brothers, sisters and extended family of these twin rovers. They care about them as much as we 'rover-huggers' do (are you hearing me Stu) Looking forward to the Spring when Spirit returns anew |
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Mar 15 2010, 10:19 AM
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#95
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
From that report: "The last downlink from the rover was on Sol 2195 (March 7, 2010). The next downlink from the rover is not scheduled yet, but expected to be sequenced for this coming weekend." AFAIK, no data have been downlinked until now. What I don't know is: Has an UHF session been attempted? |
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Mar 15 2010, 08:10 PM
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#96
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4252 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
New images are now down. Most recent are from sol 2202, yestersol.
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Mar 15 2010, 08:46 PM
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#97
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
Great news!
Now, if we could have info about the daily power production / consumption... |
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Mar 16 2010, 03:23 AM
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#98
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
According to the tracking site, the only onboard images we don't have full copies of are a few dust devil images from sols 2116, 2128 and 2129.
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Mar 19 2010, 12:07 AM
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#99
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 23-February 09 From: Edmonton, Alberta Member No.: 4611 |
via twitter a few minutes ago
@marsroverdriver Spirit, brave little girl that she is, is still hanging in there at 139 W-hr/sol. Not hibernating yet. |
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Mar 19 2010, 01:45 AM
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#100
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Member Group: Members Posts: 754 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 1700 |
keep yer chin up, girl! hope those devils clean your wings
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