Chang'E 6- Sample Return Options

[Phil Stooke]

https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/.../CE-6/CE-6.html

CE-6 now being touted for 2020 and a south polar target. The rim of Shackleton crater is suggested, probably just for a mission simulation rather than serious site planning at this stage. I had been hearing about two polar landers in the 2023-2025 period (roughly) in addition to and following CE-6, which I had assumed was going to the same general region as CE-4. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[A.Nemo]

as a copy and backup of CE-5, CE-6 will be launched in 2024.
if CE-5 fails in 2019 or 2020, CE-6 will be launched within two years.

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[bobik]

The French DORN (Detection of Outgassing RadoN) experiment got a ticket for a flight to the Moon on Chang'e-6.

[Huguet]

Since long time we have Chang'e 6, 7 and 8 with focus on solar south pole, now we get Nasa with the south pole water rich findings.

This will be interesting.

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar...oon_future.html

https://www.space.com/water-on-moon-shadow-...traps-discovery

[Steve G]

On the subject of the water on the moon announcement, here is a screenshot from the CBS website. Is this a picture of the moon or Mercury that they used?

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[Phil Stooke]

Moon - Rheita Valley is the linear feature. Mare Australe on the limb.

Phil

[Steve G]

Awesome, thanks!

[Phil Stooke]

Heard at LPSC: CE7 will fly before CE6. CE7 is an ambitious mission with lander, rover and a hopping component which can fly over a shaded area. CE6 is a second sample return mission.

Phil

[vjkane]

Heard at LPSC: CE7 will fly before CE6. CE7 is an ambitious mission with lander, rover and a hopping component which can fly over a shaded area. CE6 is a second sample return mission.

Phil

Phil, I'm not finding that talk at the LPSC site. Do you recall which section it was in.

For those not registered, here's a link to the abstract: Chang'E 7 plans

[Phil Stooke]

It was reported verbally in the plenary session on March 17th:

The Scientific Achievements by Chang’E-4 and the New Lunar Samples Returned by Chang’E-5
Lin Y.

This statement was towards the end of the talk. I have to say the talk was not particularly useful if you have been following these missions, no CE5 results reported, just a summary of what to expect. Lin did say in response to a question that the CE5 results would be reported soon, probably waiting for a paper to be accepted.

Phil

[Phil Stooke]

Here is an abstract about an instrument to be carried on CE6.

https://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EPS...SC2022-992.html

For me the most important thing is a statement about a landing site:

"Chang’E-6 is expected to launch in 2024 and will soft-land on the lunar far-side at approximately 41°S and 180°E."

That's the first specific statement I have seen. It may change but it's a start. Many other reports say it will go to the South Pole but in the press the pole is often confused with the 'South Pole-Aitken basin' so it's not always easy to know what is intended.

That location is not far from Chang'e 4, inside Leibnitz crater but on the ejecta of Finsen crater (which also provided most of what Yutu 2 has seen so far). Samples would include material from Finsen, Leibnitz and SPA.

Phil

[vjkane]

That location is not far from Chang'e 4, inside Leibnitz crater but on the ejecta of Finsen crater (which also provided most of what Yutu 2 has seen so far). Samples would include material from Finsen, Leibnitz and SPA.

Phil

Here is map showing Leibnitz crater and the two reference traverses for the proposed NASA Endurance SPA sampling rover. Chang-E-6 would sample a different area of the SPA.

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[Explorer1]

A nice article about the replacement for the current relay satellite, in preparation for Chang'E 6. Looks like a NRHOorbit instead of the Lagrange point this time.

https://spacenews.com/china-to-launch-relay...nding-missions/

Not sure exactly how the 1st one will be disposed off though.

[Cosmic Penguin]

Landing site has apparently been moved to S43º ±2º, W154º ±4º. Launch scheduled for May 2024 for a 53 days mission.

[bobik]

The French DORN (Detection of Outgassing RadoN) instrument is going to be delivered to the Chinese Space Agency (CNSA) in July 2023.

[Phil Stooke]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-023-02038-1

Open access paper on the landing area. Note that it is not south polar, the thread title is incorrect.

Phil

[nprev]

Agreed. Topic title changed.

[Phil Stooke]

Chang'e 6 is preceded by its relay satellite Queqiao 2 and two little companions, Tiandu-1 and Tiandu-2. The large Queqiao 2 is in a frozen highly elliptical orbit which spends much of its time high over the southern farside, where it will be able to relay data from Chang'e 4 and 6 as well as the polar landers CE-7 and 8. Its companions are in different orbits and are designed to test technologies for future relay systems.

Tiandu-2 took a far infrared image of part of the Moon and a distant Earth:



(CNSA image, contrast stretched)

The largest crater is Landau on the northern far side.

Phil

[Thorsten Denk]

Cháng'é-6 launch next "early Friday, May 3"?
https://spacenews.com/china-ready-to-launch...return-mission/

Thorsten

[Hungry4info]

The Planetary Society has a good article on the mission, including an interesting tidbit I wasn't aware of until now:https://www.planetary.org/articles/change-6...-what-to-expect

Finally, a student-built Pakistani CubeSat named ICUBE-Q will separate from Chang’e-6 into lunar orbit and take images of the orbiter, the Moon, and the Earth. It will also measure the Moon’s magnetic field.

The landing site experiences sunset on May 12/13. So we'll see this landing occurring in the evening rather than the morning.

[Explorer1]

A successful launch and deployment to lunar trajectory.

[Hungry4info]

Chang'e 6 carries a rover! The rover has an infrared imaging spectrometer. https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/P7yuVn34KsJeEE3AAdxHUQ

https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/1786450700651626587

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[Hungry4info]

The landing site experiences sunset on May 12/13. So we'll see this landing occurring in the evening rather than the morning.

SegerYu says the landing won't be this month. So I was likely incorrect.

[kenny]

Small rover strapped to the side of the lander.

Chang'e 6 Mini Rover

[kenny]

Scott Tilley on Twitter/X is reporting continued tracking of Chang'e 6 on 4th day of its outward leg to the Moon.
Expecting arrival into lunar orbit around 03:00 UTC on May 8th.

[kenny]

Mission timeline on Weibo:

Arrival at the moon on May 8,
Lander separates on June 1,
Samples collected on June 2,
Ascent to lunar orbit on June 4,
Docking with orbiter on June 6,
Return to Earth on June 25.

Thanks to CNSA Watcher on X/Twitter.
Source: https://m.weibo.cn/status/OdeLu1Mwe

[Hungry4info]

Chang'e 6 has successfully entered lunar orbit.

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/5031700936265747#&video

[Hungry4info]

Pakistan's ICUBE-Q has been deployed at the apogee of the initial high lunar orbit.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/1186687-p...ployed-in-orbit

[Hungry4info]

Images have been received from ICUBE-Q.

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[nogal]

I hope this is the right thread...

The paper titled "Landing site of the Chang'e-6 lunar farside sample return mission from the Apollo basin" includes enough information and images to allow creating a KML file for Google Moon (in Google Earth).
Full credit to the authors is included in the KML file and is displayed by clicking the underlined "Chang'e 6 Landing Site" title. The included base image has better resolution than the underlying Google imagery. Unfortunately it proved impossible (to me) to perfectly match the image to the Google imagery. Nevertheless, I think it is worth it and hope it may be of some use, now that the landing is approaching.

Just as with the the Curiosity KML file, download the file below to your favorite place and double click it. This should invoke Google Earth, and a message prompting to allow to change to the Moon should appear. All comments are welcome, especially if you run into any problems!

 Chang__e_6_Landing_Site_2024MAY26.kmz ( 2.92MB ) Number of downloads: 45


Fernando

[Phil Stooke]

https://x.com/SegerYu/status/1795057805495291916

Seger Yu tweets a landing position reported on CCTV news, 154.4° W, 42.1° S.


Phil

[nogal]

My thanks to Phil for the information on the planned landing site.

I have added to the KML file a ground overlay for the location, using a crop of an LROC high resolution image (getting very close to the post max size).
Full credit included in the file. I encourage users to expand the file on the GE viewer panel and find all the features within it.

 Chang__e_6_Landing_Site_2024MAY28.kmz ( 2.92MB ) Number of downloads: 31


Fernando

[kenny]

Andrew Jones reports that the landing is now set for approximately 8:00 p.m. Eastern Saturday, June 1 (00.00 UTC June 2), according to the European Space Agency (ESA), which is involved via a payload developed in Sweden. The mission is targeting a landing in the southern portion of Apollo crater within the vast South Pole-Aitken basin. The sun began to rise over the crater on May 28.

Chang'6 landing on Space News

[Thorsten Denk]

According to Seger Yu, the landing was successful!
https://x.com/SegerYu/status/1797034552730529929
Congratulations!
Thorsten

[Phil Stooke]

OK, assuming this is correct, here is an updated Moon sites map.

Phil




LINK to full-size map:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tebyydtb4cqy...eedu22&dl=0

[Hungry4info]

Confirmation from CGTN.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-06-02/China...XLCSm8nu/p.html

Livestream coming up in about two hours.
https://w.yangshipin.cn/video?type=2&vi...p;pid=600178662

[Hungry4info]

Statement from CNSA.
https://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n6758844/n...44/content.html

At 6:09 June 02, [Chang'e 6] began powered descent, and the 7500N variable thrust main engine was turned on. During this period, the combination made rapid attitude adjustments and gradually approached the lunar surface. After that, obstacles were automatically detected through autonomous obstacle avoidance system, and a visible light camera was used to select a rough safe point according to the brightness of the lunar surface.
...
The international payloads of the Chang'e 6 mission, the ESA lunar surface negative ion analyzer and French lunar radon detector, are about to start working, and the Italian laser corner reflector has been deployed.

[Hungry4info]

https://m.weibo.cn/status/Oh5xEjmcP
Chang'e 6 is preparing for lunar soil collection.

[Steve G]

OK, assuming this is correct, here is an updated Moon sites map.

Phil




LINK to full-size map:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tebyydtb4cqy...eedu22&dl=0

Great Map!

[Hungry4info]

Broadcast is on. You can also find it on the Weibo account 央视新闻 https://weibo.com/cctvxinwen?layerid=5040757216119241

Core drilling has begun.

[ollopa]

Great Map!

The blue dot is the landing site. The green is Chang'e 4. (yellow is CE6 on approach). How does that match, Phil?

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[Phil Stooke]

Your blue and yellow may be reversed.

Phil

[Explorer1]

One surface image being displayed now (looking straight down apparently).

[Hungry4info]

Surface!

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[Phil Stooke]

The broadcast ended with a great landing video. Let's hope it is released soon. Fantastic job, everyone involved.

Phil

[ollopa]

Your blue and yellow may be reversed.

Phil

S
I think you're right. So you still place it just south of Chaffee? No precession from the "early" landing?

[Cosmic Penguin]

The broadcast ended with a great landing video. Let's hope it is released soon. Fantastic job, everyone involved.

Phil

Via CCTV: Link

I've put it up on Twitter here:
https://x.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1797102131838947509
https://x.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1797102290459050065

[Phil Stooke]

First impression, a bit north of the target.

Phil

[Hungry4info]

Coordinates are approximately -41.63839 206.01455, or 153.98545 W, 41.63839 S.
Edit: SegerYu beat me to it. Similar result. https://x.com/SegerYu/status/1797110109493166299

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[Hungry4info]

I'm seeing reports on Weibo and from some Chinese spaceflight accounts on Twitter that the drilling has concluded successfully.
This would be in contrast to the Chang'e 5 drilling which was blocked due to a rock.

[Phil Stooke]

Excellent work finding the site. It looks like we will have to wait about 6 days for an LRO overflight.

Phil

[kenny]

Frame from the landing video showing shadows of footpad and 2 landing engine nozzles, and dust streaming from the sub-spacecraft point.

[Phil Stooke]

Here is a very preliminary (in finished map terms, not location) map of the landing location to help find it among the sea of craters. Remember that the landing video frames have west at the top, so my site in the last map looks different from the video.

Phil

Oops - will replace shortly! Silly mistake.

OK, Silly mistake corrected and the map more finished than it was before.

[kenny]

Partial pano posted by Seger Yu.
There is beauty in barrenness...

[djellison]

Partial pano posted by Seger Yu.

That looks more like a Yutu 2 image, not a Chang'E 6 image
https://photos.smugmug.com/Change-4-Yutu-2/...Panorama-4K.jpg for example

( update- it is infact this exact location from Yutu 2 - https://dougellison.smugmug.com/Change-4-Yutu-2/i-CKR2SZW )

[Phil Stooke]

"There is beauty in barrenness..."

True.. but that's not Chang'e 6!

Phil

[Hungry4info]

Chang'e 6 has been working on the lunar surface for 24 hours.
https://m.weibo.cn/detail/5041064991785109

[kenny]

Ouch!
Apologies for the erroneous post....
(There is no escape in this group!).

[John Moore]

Just to put the location in a broader perspective view, as following the video gives some important marker craters.

John

[Phil Stooke]

Here is the first surface image I have seen:

https://m.weibo.cn/u/7924225687#&gid=1&pid=1

Phil

[ollopa]

Here is the first surface image I have seen:

https://m.weibo.cn/u/7924225687#&gid=1&pid=1

Phil

Screengrabs from CCTV. I counted EIGHT scoop trenches in the sampling area pictured.

[Explorer1]

I wonder what the rover's purpose is (any instruments, or just a camera to watch the ascent from a safe distance), like the deployables on the Mars rover?
EDIT: that was fast, away it goes!

[Cosmic Penguin]

Full summary of the surface operations, including more than 10 minutes of video, are at CNSA's website - but I have trouble downloading them.
I've found more concise versions (surface sampling, sub-surface drilling and ascent stage liftoff), you may found them on Twitter or on NSF forums (too big to attach here).

Sampling 1
Sampling 2
Drilling 1
Drilling 2
Ascent stage liftoff 1
Ascent stage liftoff 2

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[Cosmic Penguin]

More photos from CNSA:

First two are descent camera photos during the descent phase
The third one is from the descent camera just after touchdown
The fourth one is from the panoramic camera's north side view with Chaffee crater in the background (edit: better resolution image now up; full version is here)

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[Cosmic Penguin]

Full lander shot from the "secret" rover is up

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[Hungry4info]

Full (?) resolution of the Chang'e 6 panorama.

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[kenny]

Video of sampling activities and ascent to lunar orbit.

Chang'e 6 ascent



Fuller video of sampling only -- drilling and collection.

Fuller video of sampling from CCTV

[neo56]

Chang'e 6 panorama, horizon flattened and color levels adjusted.

[Phil Stooke]

Very nice! Thanks.

I have been looking at the sample collection videos and there are enough details to put together this sequence. Ci and C2 are surface contacts made by the circular part of the sampling mechanism before the first two samples were dug. If more contacts were made throughout the sequence, they have not shown up yet in videos.

Phil

[kenny]

Horizon view in a different direction, with distant hill.



Chang'e 6 via Seger Yu on X

[Phil Stooke]

Kenny... that is Chang'e 5. Seger Yu was comparing the two panoramas.

Phil

[kenny]

Argh! My Mandarin let me down...

thanks Phil!

[Phil Stooke]

It's a full-time job keeping you on the straight and narrow, Kenny.

I have found that those surface contacts I noted earlier, before the first two sample scoops, were designed to locate the surface accurately before using the scoop. The whole process was largely autonomous.

Phil