Mercury Flyby 1 |
Mercury Flyby 1 |
Dec 5 2007, 06:47 AM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
40 days and counting. The long wait is almost over!
I wonder whether we will get enough data to test new simulation theories like this one. http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19...solar-wind.html What do you expect from this first flyby? |
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Dec 5 2007, 10:04 AM
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 7-December 06 From: Sheffield UK Member No.: 1462 |
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing MESSENEGER's MDIS images.
On Jan 14 MDIS will first see Mercury as a crescent showing previously mapped territory. After the flyby MDIS will take images of the planet in a gibbous phase showing 25% 'new' territory and the huge Caloris impact basin will be visible near the centre of the disc. Plus, after the encounter and travelling at 140,000 mph, MESSENGER will be the fastest spacecraft of all time! It should be a real day to remember! -------------------- It's a funny old world - A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive. - W.C. Fields.
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Dec 5 2007, 10:06 AM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 234 Joined: 8-May 05 Member No.: 381 |
[.....]
I think the most exciting thing we have some chance of seeing would be evidence of endogenic activity--volcanic flows, maybe even cinder cones or vents, something to indicate Mercury was once active. Some small volcanic flows were seen by Mariner 10, more would certainly be interesting. |
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Dec 6 2007, 09:27 AM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
Mariner 10 had terribly limited color imaging.. Orange, blue, and UV filters, beside "minus blue" (yellow) and clear.
It also had an attitude control deadband that was nearly the field of view of the imaging system, so it's targeting tended to wander around rather drunkenly. The result is that Mariner 10 color mapping was limited, mostly low resolution hemispheric data, and only somewhat useful. Heroic image processing efforts by (I think) Mark Robinson have gotten really useful information out of it, but it's still pretty limited. This flyby will give multispectral mapping far superiour to Mariner 10's, and will also have near-infrared imaging/spectal mapping that we essentially don't have any of yet. (I haven't dug into what the capabilities of the instruments are) I expect that beside other interesting results from the first flyby, this will provide a real revolution in understanding crustal diversity and it's geologic history. |
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Dec 6 2007, 12:33 PM
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#5
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
Heroic image processing efforts by (I think) Mark Robinson have gotten really useful information out of it, but it's still pretty limited. That is correct. Also, there heaters that were supposed to control the temperature of the vidicon failed, which made calibration impossible at the time. Using modern computers, Robinson was able to calibrate the data. -------------------- |
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Dec 10 2007, 08:01 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
From wikipedia...
QUOTE The mission is designed to shed light on six key issues: Mercury’s high density, its geological history, the nature of its magnetic field, the structure of its core, whether it really has ice at its poles, and where its tenuous atmosphere comes from. To this end, the probe is carrying imaging devices which will gather much higher resolution images of much more of the planet than Mariner 10, assorted spectrometers to determine abundances of elements in the crust, and magnetometers and devices to measure velocities of charged particles. Detailed measurements of tiny changes in the probe’s velocity as it orbits will be used to infer details of the planet’s interior structure.[37] So which of these six key issues will light be shed upon during the 1st flyby? P.S. 35 days and counting! |
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Dec 10 2007, 10:51 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Dec 11 2007, 01:41 AM
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#8
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
The most exciting features I could anticipate might be some long-dead cinder cones as there are on the Moon. (Still, I actually would find that pretty exciting... ) Doubt that they'll see any during the flybys, though.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Dec 11 2007, 03:28 AM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 557 |
I expect the magnetometer data to provide some helpful hints as to what is causing that magnetic field.
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Dec 11 2007, 07:08 PM
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#10
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 21-September 06 Member No.: 1172 |
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Dec 14 2007, 04:19 AM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
This is an animation of the January 14th, 2008 Messenger Flyby of Mercury.
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/the_mission/mo...0sc%20od095.mov It shows the spacecraft will get as close as 200 km from the surface. We should get some good images. However, the animation seems to suggest a kind of equatorial trajectory. So perhaps we won't get an immediate answer about the possibility of water ice at the poles. Yet we should get a good chunk of the planet imaged that has not been seen before, close-up at least. |
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Dec 14 2007, 04:47 AM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Dec 15 2007, 08:33 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
Well, it has been about 33 years since the last measurement of Mercury's magnet field. I would assume that the best science on this flyby will be from the Magnetometer.
The really good image operation will be very short indeed. It should last only 10 to 15 minutes for some close-up visuals once the spacecraft comes out from behind the planet. The imaging could start at 4000 km from the surface and continue as the spacecraft recedes. But the exciting part is that that part of Mercury has not been imaged close-up before. Granted, it is not at the closest approach of 200 km; but 4000 km is good. Despite the visuals we might get, I'm more excited about the potential for Mapping out Mercury's Magnetic Field. I'm afraid a single pass is not good enough to do that with a high degree of confidence; but I'm hoping we will get a few surprises that will give us a much better model than we currently have. |
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Dec 15 2007, 11:13 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 509 Joined: 2-July 05 From: Calgary, Alberta Member No.: 426 |
Yeah, that magnetic field is sure to be one of the show-stoppers.
I wonder: will we be able to get stuff like quadrupole moment out of the first flyby? We got that sort of information out of the Voyager flybys of Uranus and Neptune, so I guess there's some chance, at least. It'll also be interesting to compare this data set with the data from the next two flybys. But we'll have to wait for that. |
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Dec 16 2007, 04:42 AM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Dec 16 2007, 05:53 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 509 Joined: 2-July 05 From: Calgary, Alberta Member No.: 426 |
Actually, my first guess is that Mercury's slow rotation should actually make it easier to map the magnetosphere, and pick up stuff like quadrupole moment. The "nearly-stationary" nature of the field should make it much easier to disentangle rotational effects from translational effects.
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Dec 20 2007, 06:53 PM
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 568 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Silesia Member No.: 299 |
MESSENGER’s nineteenth trajectory-correction maneuver (TCM-19) completed on December 19 lasted 110 seconds and adjusted the spacecraft's velocity by 1.1 meters per second (3.6 feet per second). The movement targeted the spacecraft close to the intended aim point 200 km (124 miles) above the night-side surface of Mercury for the probe's first flyby of that planet on January 14, 2008.
MESSENGER ZEROS IN ON MERCURY -------------------- Free software for planetary science (including Cassini Image Viewer).
http://members.tripod.com/petermasek/marinerall.html |
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Dec 21 2007, 06:06 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 568 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Silesia Member No.: 299 |
New animation of MESSENGER's flyby of Mercury that shows the specific instrument operations planned during the encounter.
Mercury Flyby 1 -------------------- Free software for planetary science (including Cassini Image Viewer).
http://members.tripod.com/petermasek/marinerall.html |
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Dec 21 2007, 06:09 PM
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#19
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
Sweet!
-------------------- |
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Dec 21 2007, 06:42 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 3233 Joined: 11-February 04 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 23 |
Very nice! Looks like there will some very nice mosaic designs during this encounter.
And I think they did a very good job with this visualization by freezing the frames for a few seconds so you can clearly see the mosaics and where they will be. -------------------- &@^^!% Jim! I'm a geologist, not a physicist!
The Gish Bar Times - A Blog all about Jupiter's Moon Io |
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Dec 21 2007, 06:43 PM
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#21
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
Wow, that's going to be a LOT of frames!
Great visualization, only thing it misses is event timecodes. Reminds me of Voyager Uranus/Neptune flyby animations a bit. -------------------- |
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Dec 21 2007, 07:14 PM
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#22
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 3233 Joined: 11-February 04 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 23 |
LOL, I've been working on image processing for too long. As I watch this video, I start thinking about which images would I process first (likely the full-disk WAC mosaic after the Northern hemisphere NAC mosaic), and what order I would process these mosaics in. Looks like the NAC mosaics are composed of single filter frames, which simplifies things quite a bit.
-------------------- &@^^!% Jim! I'm a geologist, not a physicist!
The Gish Bar Times - A Blog all about Jupiter's Moon Io |
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Dec 21 2007, 08:12 PM
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#23
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
I am looking forward to seeing the rest of Caloris. This is a rough mosaic using this image set I posted earlier and the high-res map coverage (I am on my way out the door for the holidays, so I didn't have much time to work), but it shows the extent of Mariner 10's coverage (I probably could have found some images that were somewhat better just beyond the limb, but, like I said, I am on my way out the door).
-------------------- |
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Dec 22 2007, 06:33 AM
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
Wow! There will be a lot more visual camera mosaics than I thought.
Looking at the timeline and the scientific instruments involved in this Flyby, there is going to be a lot of atmospheric analysis with the UV scanner from the MASCS, especially upon approach while there is just a cresent Mercury visible. Wide angle and narrow angle mosaics will still be made upon approach. Upon closest approach at 200 km, there will be Visual/IR/UV surface spectroscopy of the dark side of Mercury. The wide angle camera will be turned back on around 2000 km in altitude to do color photometry. A High-resolution mosaic will begin with the narrow angle camera when the spacecraft gets near 3000 km in altitude. These high-resolution images will be of the equitorial region on the side of Mercury never seen close-up before. They will then do wide angle color imaging of the same and surrounding area. Then they will switch back to high-resolution and do the entire northern hemisphere that is visible. Switch back again to the wide angle camera and do the whole planet face. Then repeat with the narrow angle camera. The whole flyby sequence will be done in little more than an hour and a half. I suppose the MAG will be taking measurements the entire time. I don't know where or when the EPPS will come into play; but it will probably be taking measurements too of any charged particles within the magnetosphere. I can hardly wait for clues to solar influence upon Mercury's magnetic field and their interaction. It looks like this will be a science intensive flyby. There should be a lot of answers or at least clues to a lot of burning questions about Mercury. I'm even more excited now than I was a couple of weeks ago! And I can hardly wait for the eventual orbital insertion. |
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Dec 22 2007, 11:54 AM
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#25
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
"...all of which add up to the magnetic field being almost stationary while the craft flies through..."
Mariner 10, on one of the two night-side flyby's, got good data on the field configuration on the way in, but then was hit by a magnetosphere substorm on the way out, reducing the "fittabiility" of the data. The magnetic field is weak, the magnetosphere is small, and solar wind is strong.... the magnetosphere "does things fast" |
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Dec 22 2007, 03:05 PM
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 146 Joined: 23-August 06 From: Vriezenveen, Netherlands Member No.: 1067 |
I'm curious who'll post the first new map of Mercury based on the new images of this first flyby
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Dec 22 2007, 03:23 PM
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#27
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
...we should start a pool! UMSF's imagesmiths are so talented that I know that they'll beat the USGS by several months. Heck, I'd be surprised if someone doesn't post a revised map later than 2 weeks after this encounter.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Dec 22 2007, 03:33 PM
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 378 Joined: 21-April 05 From: Portugal Member No.: 347 |
...This is a rough mosaic using this image set I posted earlier and the high-res map coverage... Very nice Ted! The Mariner 10 dataset is hard to work with and you've pulled some nice data from it. A can almost make out half of Caloris basin in your images! -------------------- _______________________
www.astrosurf.com/nunes |
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Dec 22 2007, 03:35 PM
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#29
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
I'd be surprised if someone doesn't post a revised map later than 2 weeks after this encounter. You both seem to be forgetting MESSENGER doesn't feature raw image pages like MER and Cassini does. -------------------- |
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Dec 22 2007, 03:37 PM
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#30
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Didn't forget; actually, never knew. Bummer.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Dec 22 2007, 10:12 PM
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#31
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10193 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
No, but any press release mosaics etc. could be reprojected fairly quickly.
APL does have a tiny history of daily release. Or did. Right back at the start of the NEAR approach to Eros, just before going into orbit, they said they would release all the images every day. And they actually did, while the asteroid was 10 pixels long or so. At that time I was downloading them and posting a few images on some usenet forum or some such place - whatever it was people did back then. I recall Calvin Hamilton asking me how I got the 16 bit images into Photoshop. Then he put out a few of his own. And then, just as Eros was getting big enough to be interesting, they chickened out and quit. C'mon, APL, you can do it! Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Dec 22 2007, 10:44 PM
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#32
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Dec 22 2007, 10:57 PM
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#33
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
In terms of when images get released, a lot depends upon the PI, and from what I understand, this PI is not likely to permit the images to get posted immediately -- though of course I would be delighted to be wrong.
Anyway, this video is the final version of the one Louise showed me in August... --Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Dec 22 2007, 11:55 PM
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 656 Joined: 20-April 05 From: League City, Texas Member No.: 285 |
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Dec 23 2007, 12:10 AM
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#35
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Outreach is certainly part of the mission selection process. However, the rapid release of raw imagery in the MER/Cassini style is certainly not 'virtually free'. Just ask their web teams how much bandwidth they get through.
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Dec 23 2007, 02:18 AM
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#36
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Yeah...it's easy to forget that it takes a lot of labor & resources to post pics in real time. Not every mission has this.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Dec 23 2007, 06:20 AM
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
If we are not pushy and the Messenger team knows about this audience, then they might be willing to give us what they can. The recent animations and interviews clips on their site happened in a timely manner. It is most appreciated and helpful. It almost seemed that they are aware of us. Perhaps they are. Or perhaps it was mere coincidence because of the upcoming flyby.
We didn't expect the MRO team to be so gracious with some of the images; yet they seem to have been. I can only hope that the Messenger team will also follow the MER team example to some extent or another and make public whatever is practical to do so. |
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Dec 23 2007, 01:38 PM
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 29-June 05 Member No.: 421 |
Just ask their web teams how much bandwidth they get through. If it was purely a matter of bandwidth, I would expect they could get google to host for free. (I say google in particular because they most clearly among the internet giants display the attitude of being happy to undertake even expensive projects just to advance their image of being the premier repository of human knowledge, and they show a particular interest in helping the scientific community.) Of course, there are expenses to have a web team at all. Still I think this kind of decision doesn't really come down to money. The PI and core science team have a strong motivation to try to maximize the amount of scientific credit they personally get, and openness with data is viewed as decreasing their advantage over competing scientists. I think that is still the real story. |
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Dec 23 2007, 07:49 PM
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 509 Joined: 2-July 05 From: Calgary, Alberta Member No.: 426 |
The PI and core science team have a strong motivation to try to maximize the amount of scientific credit they personally get, and openness with data is viewed as decreasing their advantage over competing scientists. I think that is still the real story. That's probably true, and a good way of addressing it would be to determine whether anyone on the Cassini team has lost credit for something because of the existence of the Raw Images page. If that hasn't happened, the Messenger team could rest a bit easier about it. In addition, I don't recall having seen anything on UMSF that would indicate that our discussions here had taken anything away from the Cassini team. There have been a few occasions when things got posted and discussed here before they showed up on the Cassini web site, or in a conference abstract volume. These included the re-discovery of the ring spokes, and the changes in the D Ring. That didn't seem to have any really serious negative ramifications. It's probably inevitable that, sooner or later, someone is going to try to jump the gun and take advantage of one of the Raw Images pages. But then they'd have to try to get it through peer review and that could pose problems for them. Anyone remember those guys who claimed to have found pools of water on Mars the other year?... |
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Dec 23 2007, 10:56 PM
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#40
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2517 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
I would hope that a plan for public data sharing would be a factor in approving funding for missions. All missions have PDS data release requirements, and that's about it. While outreach is a factor in mission selection, it's a very tiny factor. And I suspect a better outreach plan than just dumping minimally-processed data with no explanation or commentary on the internet would be required to make it be a bigger factor. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Dec 24 2007, 10:14 AM
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 11-December 07 From: Dar es Salaam, Tanzania Member No.: 3978 |
Didn't forget; actually, never knew. Bummer. Dont despair, I believe they will post the raw images in the same way they did with New Horizons. It may take time though. However, if they dont release the raw images....... well, at least we will enjoy the flyby itself. :-) -------------------- |
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Dec 24 2007, 11:00 PM
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#42
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1648 Joined: 5-March 05 From: Boulder, CO Member No.: 184 |
Wonder if any images will be shown at this public reception?
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/RSVP/index.php -------------------- Steve [ my home page and planetary maps page ]
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Dec 25 2007, 10:42 PM
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#43
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 8-August 07 Member No.: 3138 |
Wonder if any images will be shown at this public reception? http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/RSVP/index.php I was told by PI Sean Solomon that "The day of the flyby itself will have drama, but no data. Images and other data will not be downloaded from the spacecraft until several days following closest approach." So, Strom's talk will be a preview only. I've been invited up for some of the downlink; really looking forward to this bit of history making. From the visualization link posted up thread, you can infer that the laser altimeter will scan across the putative ramparts of the Skinakas basin (in the dark during this flyby). Of course, there is only limited radar altimetry of Mercury to provide context; the Harmon et al Arecibo images are insensitive to significant surface tilts. Update [12/26]: Confirmed that no data will be on ground until 16th. Big data crunch 16-18, followed by press conference/release. Then plenty of people in Laurel MD for a couple of weeks of photo-geology. |
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Dec 29 2007, 09:50 AM
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 146 Joined: 23-August 06 From: Vriezenveen, Netherlands Member No.: 1067 |
Does anyone know what the field of view of the Narrow Angle and the Wide Angle Camera is?
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Dec 29 2007, 03:37 PM
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 568 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Silesia Member No.: 299 |
However, if they dont release the raw images....... well, at least we will enjoy the flyby itself. :-) Now Messenger is 10 million kilometers from Mercury. Power up your Imagination! Mariner 10 six days before closest approach (03/23/74). Image FDS0014342 Mariner 10 four days before closest approach (03/25/74). Image FDS0019143 Mariner 10 two days before closest approach (03/27/74). Image FDS0023285 -------------------- Free software for planetary science (including Cassini Image Viewer).
http://members.tripod.com/petermasek/marinerall.html |
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Dec 29 2007, 05:03 PM
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#46
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Does anyone know what the field of view of the Narrow Angle and the Wide Angle Camera is? From http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/1305.pdf: QUOTE The Mercury Dual Imaging System (MDIS) consists of wide-angle and narrow-angle imagers mounted on a pivot platform that enables the instrument to point in a different direction from the spacecraft boresight. The MDIS narrowangle camera (NAC) is monochromatic with a 1.5° field of view, while the wide-angle camera (WAC) has a 10.5° field of view and a set of 11 color filters (plus one broad-band filter) ranging from 415 nm to 1020 nm. They both have 1024 by 1024 CCDs.--Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Dec 29 2007, 11:21 PM
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 146 Joined: 23-August 06 From: Vriezenveen, Netherlands Member No.: 1067 |
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Jan 2 2008, 01:02 PM
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#48
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 8-August 07 Member No.: 3138 |
Can someone here please point me to updating orbital elements (TLE format) for MESSENGER's trajectory? Am I right that there is still no master repository of deep space heliocentric orbital elements? For that matter, such an archive should include fragments before and after various historical gravitational assists. Anything like that around? Thanks
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Jan 2 2008, 06:07 PM
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#49
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Does JPL's HORIZONS system give you what you're looking for?
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons --Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Jan 2 2008, 09:49 PM
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#50
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 29-November 06 From: SESE/ASU Member No.: 1437 |
Update [12/26]: Confirmed that no data will be on ground until 16th. Big data crunch 16-18, followed by press conference/release. Then plenty of people in Laurel MD for a couple of weeks of photo-geology. Yeah, LPSC will probably the first real presentation of the results. Of course, abstracts are due next week, so they'll all be placeholders... Simon |
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Jan 2 2008, 11:24 PM
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#51
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 8-August 07 Member No.: 3138 |
Does JPL's HORIZONS system give you what you're looking for? http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons --Emily Yes. I didn't realize that HORIZONS has spacecraft. Thank you. Now just need to convert these into TLE format. |
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Jan 4 2008, 10:40 PM
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#52
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
We're back...
http://spaceurope.blogspot.com/2008/01/mes...ry-flyby-1.html http://spaceurope.blogspot.com/2008/01/mes...flyby-1_04.html This is it for now. I will not promise anything but...let's try to make of this return to Mercury a great party... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Jan 5 2008, 09:10 PM
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#53
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10193 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Some new visualizations are up on the MESSENGER page for this flyby.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Jan 5 2008, 10:36 PM
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#54
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Some new visualizations are up on the MESSENGER page for this flyby. Phil Are you referring to the fantastic work done under the visualization tool? Astounding...magnificent outreach... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Jan 7 2008, 04:46 PM
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#55
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 29-July 05 From: Amsterdam, NL Member No.: 448 |
MESSENGER Mission News
January 7, 2008 MESSENGER Only One Week from Mercury One week to go and fortunately no big surprises. Also, the mid-December trajectory correction maneuver (TCM-19) went so well that the scheduled January 10 maneuver will not be necessary. Data gathering should begin in two days. Very exciting times. EDIT: I just noticed that on January 30 (1 p.m. EST.), there is a "NASA Space Science Update on the Mercury flyby" at NASA Headquarters. Is this the main science press release? |
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Guest_PhilCo126_* |
Jan 8 2008, 04:32 PM
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#56
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Guests |
Any chance they'll show something on NASA.TV ?
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Jan 8 2008, 04:55 PM
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#57
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 29-July 05 From: Amsterdam, NL Member No.: 448 |
Apparently they will. Here's a link to the schedule.
NASA TV Schedule January 30, Wednesday 1 p.m. - MESSENGER M1 Flyby News Conference - HQ (Public and Media Channels) |
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Jan 8 2008, 08:15 PM
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#58
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 29-July 05 From: Amsterdam, NL Member No.: 448 |
MESSENGER Mission News
January 8, 2008 Six Days from Mercury and Counting! Rapid fire! Another update from MESSENGER team. Mission operators have sent commands to acquire nine sets of optical navigation images at Mercury. APL and the Planetary Society are also hosting a public reception on the evening of the encounter. The reception will include a talk by Robert G. Strom, a professor emeritus at The University of Arizona who was involved in Mariner 10 and is now a member of the MESSENGER Science Team. He'll "share his unique perspective on the significance of the MESSENGER mission." This might be of interest to those of you in the DC-area. |
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Jan 8 2008, 08:50 PM
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#59
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
[...]
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Jan 8 2008, 11:08 PM
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#60
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
While we wait for new images to start coming in, I thought I'd do a bit of Googling for existing images... these 3D views are pretty interesting...
Discovery Rupes in 3D Renoir crater in 3D -------------------- |
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Jan 8 2008, 11:41 PM
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#61
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Can someone help me get oriented here? I've always been fascinated by the Caloris Basin, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in more detail during the fly-by. So...
1. Have I labelled its location correctly in the top image (view pre-closest encounter)? 2. Where will Caloris Basin be on the images of Mercury we see post closest encounter? (if we're going to see it at all?) Over to our magnificent map makers... -------------------- |
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Jan 8 2008, 11:44 PM
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#62
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1281 Joined: 18-December 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 124 |
n00b question -
How does a spacecraft like Messenger slew back and forth rhythmically as in this video? Does that targeting use propellant or can gyros or something else produce that motion? Or should I go search through the comments on the death of the scanning platform thread? -------------------- Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!" Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test |
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Jan 9 2008, 12:04 AM
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#63
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Lord Of The Uranian Rings Group: Members Posts: 798 Joined: 18-July 05 From: Plymouth, UK Member No.: 437 |
Stu,
Check out the screenshot I've culled from the following animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFCrvvn57AM The Caloris basin (or half of it) is visible inside the green circle. Messenger will have a good look at it on the outbound leg of the encounter. Ian -------------------- |
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Jan 9 2008, 12:10 AM
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#64
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
[...]
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Jan 9 2008, 12:12 AM
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#65
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Thanks guys, exactly what I wanted. Knew I could count on you.
-------------------- |
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Jan 9 2008, 10:09 AM
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#66
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
This will give a rather poor, high-sun-angle view of Caloris on the limb. Some basin ring relief may be visible on the limb. Color differences will be more visible than near the terminator, complementing the mariner 10 terminator data and some indications of chemical differences of the smooth and fractured plains filling the basin from ejecta, etc.
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Jan 9 2008, 05:52 PM
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#67
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Great explanation by Noam Izenberg about what will be the work done by MASCS and how this will occur.
-------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Jan 9 2008, 08:03 PM
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#68
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
MESSENGER Team Receives First Optical Navigation Images
But don't get your hopes up; as far as I can tell, the news release doesn't actually include the images EDIT: I've confirmed with the project that they don't plan to release the images until tomorrow's press conference. --Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Jan 9 2008, 09:48 PM
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#69
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
I was gonna say "odd", but that's cool; as long as they get released!
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Jan 9 2008, 10:03 PM
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#70
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Member Group: Members Posts: 146 Joined: 23-August 06 From: Vriezenveen, Netherlands Member No.: 1067 |
The NAC images should look something like this:
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Jan 10 2008, 03:41 PM
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#71
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
We have an happy team over there...Ralph McNutt words:
"We have a beautiful crescent of Mercury centered in the imager field of view!" He's teasing us...isn't he?... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Jan 10 2008, 04:27 PM
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#72
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
I know that at least one of the MESSENGER team has been lurking here for a while, so I'd just like to wish everyone involved with MESSENGER all the best for the fly-by next week.
Looking forward to those first images! -------------------- |
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Jan 10 2008, 06:02 PM
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#73
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
-------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Jan 10 2008, 06:04 PM
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#74
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Jan 10 2008, 06:23 PM
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#75
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Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 10-October 06 From: Maynard Mass USA Member No.: 1241 |
Here is the output of my hand written trajectory simulator mixed with some of JPL's tool along with some other software and jpegs I had lying around... Mercury!
Go Messenger!! -------------------- CLA CLL
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Jan 10 2008, 10:56 PM
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#76
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Member Group: Members Posts: 813 Joined: 29-December 05 From: NE Oh, USA Member No.: 627 |
Mercury Ahead indeed.
Really looking forward to this. Since the last flyby in 1975, my two children have grown to adult hood, and I am now a granfather. Hoping the space geek gene jumps a generation to infect my grandsons. A long time to wait to complete the task of mapping Mercury... Craig |
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Jan 10 2008, 11:10 PM
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#77
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Member Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 557 |
Those press conference graphics that Emily linked to are pretty impressive. Just about everything you want to know.
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Jan 10 2008, 11:15 PM
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#78
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Yeah (sigh)...I'm hoping that the spacebug gene skips a generation as well, Craig; if it isn't on "Entertainment Tonight", my daughter could care less.
MESSENGER is a huge milestone; by the time that the mission is completed, we will have mapped all of the classical planets (pre-1781) and their major moons, in our lifetimes. That is nothing short of astonishing, to say nothing of humbling. We're on our way... -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Jan 10 2008, 11:48 PM
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#79
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Member Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 557 |
I've noticed on the animations that some of the NAC images on approach are taken entirely within the night side. What's up with that? Is is possible for them to actually see anything in these? Maybe a bit of light from Venus on that part, but not much else.
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Jan 10 2008, 11:54 PM
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#80
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
I've noticed on the animations that some of the NAC images on approach are taken entirely within the night side. What's up with that? Is is possible for them to actually see anything in these? Maybe a bit of light from Venus, but not much else. It may be to give them some margin of error in camera pointing. At such high resolution, a relatively small error (in terms of position) could wreck havoc on a mosaic. While we were waiting, I figured I would post a link to my new Mariner-10 mosaic I posted in the Mariner-10 thread. I always wondered why Robinson's global mosaic for the receding side used much more distant frames than the approaching side, which is much larger. He did make a high resolution mosaic of this area, but with a lot of gaps and gores. After trying to work with the data myself, I understand why. http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4070/ou...hires1f1yt9.jpg -------------------- |
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Jan 11 2008, 12:05 AM
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#81
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
I think also it was easier for them to sequence, and then process, an m-by-n rectangular mosaic than to delete frames here and there from the rectangle; you might notice that in some of the post-flyby mosaics, there are several corner frames that shoot right off the disk into space.
Also, a while back, I asked Louise Prockter why they sequence them typewriter style -- do a row, carriage return, do the next row, carriage return -- rather than a more economical left-to-right then right-to-left back-and-forth sweeping. She said they investigated sequencing the mosaics that way, and it's just simpler for them to process and assemble mosaics built up typewriter-style than back-and-forth style, as it makes the variation among frames more consistent. --Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Jan 11 2008, 12:16 AM
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#82
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
[...]
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Jan 11 2008, 01:03 AM
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#83
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 8-August 07 Member No.: 3138 |
It may be to give them some margin of error in camera pointing. At such high resolution, a relatively small error (in terms of position) could wreck havoc on a mosaic. ... http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4070/ou...hires1f1yt9.jpg OR, maybe they might catch a small moon out of shadow? I recall from a DPS poster that there are some quasi-stable phase space, searched telescopically without success but with a high background level of course. You'd think "why not wait for orbit?", except that the illumination is different and most importantly because there are no guarantees orbit will be achieved. Get as much from the flybys as possible, no predicting the future. Re satellites, I'm especially intrigued about an elongated oval feature evident in the radar images below Caloris, so well placed for this flyby (unfortunately in the Doppler ambiguous region so not included in Phil's MESSENGER radar base map). It is inclined only a bit from the equator. Perhaps a spun-down Phobos-like oblique impact? A long shot, but we'll see soon enough, hopefully. |
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Jan 11 2008, 01:59 AM
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#84
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
That would be fascinating, but got my doubts. I'd be much more inclined to believe in possible small moons for Mercury if the planet was truly Sun-synchronous in rotation, but as-is and given the tremendous gravitational influence of the Sun (to say nothing of Mercury's orbital eccentricity) I just don't see it happening due to (however minute) tidal influences.
Would be delighted to be proven wrong, however! As I mentioned to another forum member in a private message, each first orbital mission around a planet has uncovered at least one surprise; can hardly wait to see what Mercury has in store for us. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Jan 11 2008, 04:31 AM
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#85
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Awesome. I knew there had to be a word for that. Boustrophedon. Now if only there would be more than two people in the audience who would understand it if I wrote it. --Emily -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Jan 11 2008, 05:30 AM
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#86
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 3233 Joined: 11-February 04 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 23 |
Excellent. All future communications from me will now be written in that style.
-------------------- &@^^!% Jim! I'm a geologist, not a physicist!
The Gish Bar Times - A Blog all about Jupiter's Moon Io |
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Jan 11 2008, 05:40 AM
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#87
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1585 Joined: 14-October 05 From: Vermont Member No.: 530 |
Me
.oot |
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Jan 11 2008, 05:11 PM
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#88
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Member Group: Members Posts: 568 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Silesia Member No.: 299 |
New image snapped with the Narrow Angle Camera, on January 10, 2008, when MESSENGER was a distance of just less than 2 million kilometers from Mercury.
Mercury - January 10, 2008 -------------------- Free software for planetary science (including Cassini Image Viewer).
http://members.tripod.com/petermasek/marinerall.html |
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Jan 11 2008, 05:19 PM
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#89
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
Here is a new version of the first image. The processing is heavy, so interpret with caution.
-------------------- |
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Jan 11 2008, 05:20 PM
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#90
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IMG to PNG GOD Group: Moderator Posts: 2251 Joined: 19-February 04 From: Near fire and ice Member No.: 38 |
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Jan 11 2008, 05:23 PM
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#91
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
Interesting, it's just starting to show irregularities in brightness of the crescent, i.e. hints that it's not a smooth globe.
EDIT: I see Bjorn beat me to it -------------------- |
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Jan 11 2008, 05:50 PM
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#92
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 3233 Joined: 11-February 04 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 23 |
LOL, looks like we all had the same idea. So far I could only identify one surface feature when comparing the image to the Mariner 10 basemaps:
-------------------- &@^^!% Jim! I'm a geologist, not a physicist!
The Gish Bar Times - A Blog all about Jupiter's Moon Io |
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Jan 11 2008, 06:08 PM
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#93
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
-------------------- |
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Jan 11 2008, 07:59 PM
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#94
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2922 Joined: 14-February 06 From: Very close to the Pyrénées Mountains (France) Member No.: 682 |
Not my idea actualy, but I hope Nasa will name a yet to be discovered feature on Mercury after Hillary (& Tenzing).
BTW, did you know that when Neil Armstrong first set foot on the Moon, it was on Hillary's 50th birthday ! -------------------- |
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Jan 11 2008, 09:13 PM
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#95
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
Looks like our Poet Laureate has given voice to our first views from the vicinity of Mercury since the 1970s.
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/poem.html -------------------- |
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Jan 11 2008, 09:24 PM
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#96
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
HOO-RAH!!!
-------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Jan 11 2008, 09:44 PM
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#97
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 25-June 07 From: United States Member No.: 2537 |
Beautiful poem. Congrats Stu!
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Jan 11 2008, 09:55 PM
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#98
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Thanks! I'm almost embarrassingly chuffed that they used it. I will never cease to be amazed by how generous and enthusiastic the people behind these multi-gazillion dollar/pound/euro missions are, how they take time from their busy schedules to answer emails from space cadets like me, and put things like that poem up on their official websites. I guess I'm still just that space mad kid who sat in a corner of the library at school reading the science books during breaktimes, when everyone else was outside kicking a ball around...
-------------------- |
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Jan 12 2008, 12:10 AM
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#99
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Member Group: Members Posts: 813 Joined: 29-December 05 From: NE Oh, USA Member No.: 627 |
Stu.... very nice...
You give value to all of us who spent their HS lunch hours buried in books and dreaming of climbing the worldtree. Keep it up, sir. Craig |
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Jan 12 2008, 01:04 AM
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#100
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Let me add my congratulations, Stu; that's just outstanding, we're all extremely proud of you!!!
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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