Board Upgrade Options

[djellison]

Later today (or possibly one evening this week) - I'll be upgrading to Invision Board 2.3

The board will get switched off - the new content uploaded - and then an upgrade actioned - which should be a few hours at most. If you see the board acting strange during this period - don't email me - and don't try and post to the forum once the upgrade has started until you see this thread updated with news that the upgrade is complete.

In the event of emergency - we have the UMSF lifeboat here : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unmannedspaceflight/

If the proverbial has hit the fan - I'll post about it there.

Fingers crossed

Doug

[djellison]

The upgrade is basically done - obviously there will need to be some tidying up - logo's etc - but the forum is functional again

Doug

[ElkGroveDan]

Congratulations - a thing like that takes a lot of courage...but I guess it's not your first time.

[djellison]

You know - the forum's still closed....we could just talk about EVERYONE in here before we open it again Oops....too late

Damn - too late

Doug

[tasp]

Thanks for not providing an anxiety provoking warning of this upgrade, say, oh, about a month ago.


[laugh]

[djellison]

Technically - I sort of did : http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ost&p=97065 - but I just did it a LOT later than I thought I would back then.

Doug

[Guest_PhilCo126_*]

O.K. Well done Doug... as an Data application admin I know that You should never change/upgrade a running system

[tasp]

No problem. I am fully capable of having a retroactive anxiety attack.


[shudder]

[pulse racing]

[swoon]

[scalbers]

Hello Doug,

Glad to see the forum back. For the past 24 hours or so I haven't been receiving any email updates from a topic I'm tracking. Is this something with my email or with the forum?

While I'm here another question. When I send a PM I would think it would appear in the PM "Sent" folder. However that folder is empty. Is this feature working?

BTW I enjoyed hearing you on Planetary Radio recently...

Thanks,

[ugordan]

What do these colored figures by the poster's name represent? They seem to be mostly red, gray for some people and occasionally green/blue. Is that online status or something?

P.S. The "Front Page" is disabled, something about admin settings.

[CosmicRocker]

I was also wondering about the colored figures, so I tried to go to the "portal" to see who was online. I got a message telling me that "The portal has not been enabled. Please check your Invision Power Board Admin Settings." Perhaps that was intentional, but I thought I'd mention it. Otherwise everything else seems ok.

[djellison]

It's like getting a new version of Office - you suddenly find things that are new, and discover settings that have changed. The portal should be active again now - still got some stuff to figure out and tweak

[fredk]

Doug, I'm not able to upload image attachments with the new version. In the little Attachments sub-window I hit "Browse..." to select the file, and then hit the green "UPLOAD" button. (It says I have used 0 bytes of a 1MB limit.) Then the subwindow clears and displays the message "Uploading File...", but nothing further happens.

Could this be a browser issue? I'm using Mozilla 1.7.10.

[ermar]

Also regarding image attachments, it seems like many of them cannot be viewed without logging in - though this might just be me.

[alan]

Doug, I'm not able to upload image attachments with the new version. In the little Attachments sub-window I hit "Browse..." to select the file, and then hit the green "UPLOAD" button. (It says I have used 0 bytes of a 1MB limit.) Then the subwindow clears and displays the message "Uploading File...", but nothing further happens.

Could this be a browser issue? I'm using Mozilla 1.7.10.

Did you click the manage current attachments arrow above the upload button? You need to click on the + at the left to add the attachment to the post.

[ElkGroveDan]

I must say that having a "portal" is much more fun for we space aficionados (and sci-fi fans) than a plain old "front page."

[CosmicRocker]

The upgraded message editor looks pretty nice. It looks as if we have some new formating options. Hmm, I wonder what it means to insert: Spoiler? That could be fun.

I don't know if this is something you can turn on and off or not, but the new forum is missing a feature I found useful in the previous version. I used to be able to mouse-over image attachments and get a yellow balloon popup with the image file size and number of downloads. That information is missing from the new pages.

[jrdahlman]

I just went to Ted Stryk's Pioneer 11 Saturn post:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ost&p=99744

...and discovered if I try to click on the link to his posted image:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st&id=11865

...all I get is an error message:

"Sorry, but you do not have permission to use this feature...."

I wasn't logged in. I needed to log in to actually see his picture. Looking around (like the new Iapetus pictures), it seems that no uploaded pictures are visible unless you are logged in. Is this a bug or a new "feature?"

(I would disagree with it being a feature. It discourages casual browsers, and my cut down your audience for outreach.)

[fredk]

Did you click the manage current attachments arrow above the upload button? You need to click on the + at the left to add the attachment to the post.

Once I hit the upload button, that arrow disappears and never reappears. There's clearly a problem here. Anyone have this work with Mozilla?

[ElkGroveDan]

Testing with Firefox 2.0.0.6

EDIT: seems to work.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[djellison]

Is this a bug or a new "feature?"

It's a case of some settings from the 2.1.3 version carrying over to 2.3 - and some not. For some reason which is not documented by Invision - the settings for lots of things did carry over - but the ability for guests to download attachments for each forum wasn't one of them. I've gone through each forum and added guest-download for attachments.

As for the problem with attachments. Safari and Camino - no problem here.

The file size is reported with the thumbnail - but the number of downloads...have to see if that another magic setting that's moved or been changed with the upgrade.

Doug

[djellison]

Email's are currently broken (got to work that one out yet ) so subscriptions will probably not get notifications, and sending emails to members from their profiles will probably not work either. That'll have to wait till tonight.

Doug

[Tesheiner]

The file size is reported with the thumbnail

Can't see that with IE6.0. What I get is an yellow box saying "Attached image" and that's all.

[djellison]

Insert worlds largest shrug icon here >

I see it with Firefox, Safari and Camino.

Doug

[djellison]

Email issue seemingly resolved (just sent myself an email from my profile - and subscriptions etc should work the same way)

Doug

[CosmicRocker]

Can't see that with IE6.0. What I get is an yellow box saying "Attached image" and that's all.

It never did work for me with IE, even before the upgrade. When I was at work and forced to use IE I would have to open the page's html source and search for the information in there.

[Tesheiner]

To be fair, I don't remember either seeing that info before the upgrade.

[djellison]

Just for comparison - this is how I see the forum through Safari and Camino.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[Tesheiner]

Yup. Now I'm seeing this same "new look".
It's nice to have the attachment's filesize somewhere, specially for those (like me at home) with dial-up connections.

[stevesliva]

Insert worlds largest shrug icon here >

I see it with Firefox, Safari and Camino.

Doug, I agree with the sentiment, but since plenty of other web developers are of the opposite persuasion, I wonder if you've installed the "IE Tab" plugin for firefox? Sounds like you might be on an Apple box, though.

The IE tab is wonderful, though. Just this morning I had to use it to read the last few characters of text on some borked webpage. It was probably screwed up by Adblock, but it's definitely nice to have the second rendering engine in the same UI. And you could have changed your post to "Yeah, I don't see it on IE... shrug."

[climber]

Working just fine once name & password entered and ...this looks like an upgrade.

[djellison]

I tried it with IE7 on my work rig - no problem there at that time either - but because I was posting from my Mac, I couldn't drag a screenie over.

I think there was some sort of cached thing going on - because the admin section was looking rather broken - but at the same time Tesh said 'oo - works now' - the admin section started looking normal as well

(Although I do use one local cinema instead of another because one chains website doesn't work in anything other than IE )

And while I've tried to make this as easy a change as possible by keeping the legacy 2.1 theme - I'll be switching to the 2.3 theme ( with a new logo) to tie in with the Sputnik anniv

Doug

[helvick]

If we're talking about the hover box ( the title element that is contained in the link tag <A href="blah" title="safari.gif - Size: 25.72K, Downloads: 20" > ) then running under XP and on the UMSF I never saw it with Firefox (any version) or Safari but I did see it with IE6 (definitely) and IE7 (I think).

Since the upgrade I still don't see it with Firefox and Safari and definitely don't see it with IE7 now, so maybe my meory of it working with IE7 is faulty. The title element is still present in the page source so this should work.

It's not a biggie for me though.

[Del Palmer]

Works great here on IE6/Win2000. I see only one issue on the new version: the lack of alt-text on the emoticons when replying (they had alt-text previously) - now I have to right-click "show picture" on each one to find the one I want.

[dvandorn]

I'm only noticing one difference in how the new software runs vs. the old software. It seems to take from three to ten times longer for a post to upload and appear now than it did before the upgrade.

I've noticed this from the moment I first made a post this morning, and it still holds true. Even a short post takes 20 to 30 seconds to upload, and a longer post (say seven or eight paragraphs) can take up to two minutes.

Every other operation seems to be very quick and smooth, or else I'd chalk it up to bad connections between here and the servers on the other side of the pond (as happens often enough). But since the rest of the forum operations are as fast as I've ever seen them, I just can't buy that explanation anymore.

It's definitely taking a significantly longer time for posts to actually post. It doesn't bother me overmuch, but it's the one big thing I've noticed in terms of performance.

-the other Doug

[djellison]

Odd- because the one thing the in the version tracker banged on about was the improved performance.

Doug

[helvick]

I noticed the slow upload last night but thought it was just me. Testing again with a low latency\high bandwidth link.

Edited: No delays in posting from here at the moment. I'll test it again this evening from home and see if it was just a transient issue.

[djellison]

It's probably a bit slower - but 2-3 minutes? That's too long. I'll do some searching.

Doug

[edstrick]

Old bug, new bug

Old: When I brouse, I click on "view new posts", then hit the too-damn-small-active-area red boxes by the thread title. The software updates the boxes erratically on it's own, but it I hit "view new posts" again, it corrects all of the ones I've looked at to the has-been-viewed status.

If I leave the board and come back 10 min or 50 min <or something> later, ALL the boxes are red again and it shows the same threads, whether I've viewed them or not. If I click on a re-reddened box of a thread, it DOES go to the last thing I looked at or the end of the thread, but it's not passing that information correctly "up to higher levels"

New bug: I was a "guest" again and had to log in tonight, even though I have "remember my password" checked in the login box, and it's worked the last few nights.

[djellison]

Well -view new posts has never been a reliable way of checking up. It's useful, but keeps non-new stuff onboard for some time. I think it's possibly a symptom of tabbed browsers.

Retained login issue- are you going to www.umsf not just umsf each time? That cured it for most people last time around.

I'm not a code-monkey, I really am just a user of Invision, and as such much of the criticism about it, there's nothing I can do.

[jamescanvin]

I Just had to log in again this morning as well. Using the same www.unman... as I always have.

I've never had much of a problem with 'view new posts': open them all in new tabs then click 'mark all posts as read and return to index'.

James

EDIT: No delay in getting this post posted - very quick.

[Ant103]

Good good

And what about skinning the forum. The default IPB skin have not a good looking for me... I.eg. before subsection of forums, is it possible to have the UMSF spacecraft or thing like this? More generaly, a skin with more links to spaceflight without humans .

[dvandorn]

Posting is now back to the normal speed. Must have been a first-day glitch, maybe something to do with how Invision was updating the databases. But it's smoothed out now.

As for changing the default skin, can we have a chance to at least take a look at the choices, like last time? I've gotten used to this skin, and wouldn't care for anything that's more garish.

-the other Doug

[djellison]

The new skin will be the default, with this old one as an option if people choose it - I'll do sneak-peak's closer to the time

Doug

[dvandorn]

OK, cool. I like the option of choosing, is all.

As for posting times, I'm beginning to wonder if it might not be a forum-specific thing. It just took 50 seconds for a post to the Icy Moons forum (the poll topic, Iapetus black-on-white or white-on-black) to post, and then adding my vote in that poll took 40 seconds. But posting on this forum takes a second or two only.

Perhaps there is some board-specific setting that is checking for virii and such on some boards, but not on others?

-the other Doug

[elakdawalla]

I'll just comment that the upgrade has fixed what has been the most annoying thing about visiting UMSF for me: Stupid IE couldn't remember my password when I came in to the site at "www.unmannedspaceflight.com," only when I went to the login screen. Now IE remembers my password.

As far as I'm concerned, the upgrade is a success.

(Though I have also been noticing the slow-posting problem some others have mentioned; I haven't seen a pattern to it yet, I'll post again if I do.)

--Emily

[lyford]

I Just had to log in again this morning as well. Using the same www.unman... as I always have.

I too am having to log in more than i used to.... perhaps I should delete my cookies and rebookmark the View New posts link? It used to just go to the list with a saved password.... now I have had to enter the password a few times in the last day.

Is there a default log in expiration that got set in the upgrade? Do we time out more quickly?

Haven't noticed any "slowing" that others have mentioned.

[Juramike]

ch*nked. (*="u")

Still crashes. Must be a feature .....

-Mike

[djellison]

Do we time out more quickly?

3600s

Doug

[Floyd]

I had to log in 7 times to get to this point of sending a mesage. I get dropped out of my sign in each time I change pages. I sign in to http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com.

[djellison]

It remembers my login with Firefox, Safari and Camino on my Mac, and with Firefox and IE7 on my work PC - old version and new version both the same. I don't really know what to say. I've got people saying 'great - it remembers my login at last' and people saying 'it drops me every 5 seconds'. All i can suggest is things like flushing cookies etc Floyd. It's hard for me to see what I can do here when I can not for the life of me reproduce what you're describing. I really can't see how it's a forum problem rather than a local problem. Do you visit any other Invision boards? Do they retain login? Help me help you.

And Juramike - 'Still crashes' - doesn't actually help me fix anything. Some details might be nice.



Doug

[ElkGroveDan]

As I recall one of the problems I had in the past with retaining log-ins had to do with using http://unmannedspaceflight.com vs. http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com

Some of you may try that. Look at your caches and check name of the cookie being saved, or indeed if it's saving one at all.

Floyd you may want to check your security settings on your browser, and as well as your anti-virus software. It is possible that there is some line of code in the new UMSF cookie that seems offensive to some protection systems. If you don't want to lower the security level, I believe it's possible on most browsers and anti-virus programs to isolate a web site and give just that url a lower security setting.

As Doug noted I'm not having any troubles at all with Firefox and Norton.

[ugordan]

And Juramike - 'Still crashes' - doesn't actually help me fix anything. Some details might be nice.

I think he was talking about the "ch*nked" word which, for some obscure reason, (still) causes a failure to post.

The new attachment look doesn't indicate the number of downloads as it used to, is it a user customizable feature or did it get lost in the process? Personally, I liked the old, minimalistic "click to enlarge" captions better. Ahh.. change is hard.

[djellison]

Not found any settings for the attachment stuff - probably just one of those things they changed.

Doug

[ElkGroveDan]

IE SOLUTION:

I found that IE was having the same troubles for me that Floyd described above.

Here is the solution.

Go to TOOLS -> INTERNET OPTIONS -> SECURITY

select TRUSTED SITES then select the SITES box then PASTE http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/ into the box labeled Add this web site to the zone

Be sure to uncheck the box labeled Require server verification (https:) for all sites in this zone

CLOSE

then be sure to hit APPLY

That fixed it for me. I was using IE 7.0 (temporarily )

[Floyd]

Thanks EGD, that fixed it. Great instructions. It was an IE6 problem not trusting USMF.

[Ant103]

THE solution


Ahem...

Yes, I know what door to take...

[Juramike]

I think he was talking about the "ch*nked" word which, for some obscure reason, (still) causes a failure to post.

The new attachment look doesn't indicate the number of downloads as it used to, is it a user customizable feature or did it get lost in the process? Personally, I liked the old, minimalistic "click to enlarge" captions better. Ahh.. change is hard.

OK. Now this is kinda wierd.

In this very thread "Board Upgrade", the buttons for file upload are not present. (The "initializing upload" part doesn't kick in).
Strangely enough, I got to that part in another thread.

[I was going to provide a screen shot of the error message from using the "ch*nked" word]

And I'm now able to see the number of downloads for the images in the thread. Yaaaay!

-Mike

[ugordan]

And I'm now able to see the number of downloads for the images in the thread. Yaaaay!

How did you pull that off?

[elakdawalla]

In this very thread "Board Upgrade", the buttons for file upload are not present. (The "initializing upload" part doesn't kick in).
Strangely enough, I got to that part in another thread.

I, too, have sometimes had the "initializing upload" thing appear to hang on me when I attempt to post. It's only intermittent, and I can't figure out under what circumstances it happens, which is why I haven't posted about it yet. Just refreshing the posting page did fix the problem on one occasion. (I am using IE 7 on Win XP SP2.)

--Emily

[Juramike]

How did you pull that off?

????

I honestly don't know...It doesn't show them any more. I rechecked and I can no longer view the number of downloads.
(Both IE and Firefox are no longer showing downloads. I'm pretty sure I was using Firefox when I saw the number of downloads on the mouseover)

It was wonderful while it lasted....

-Mike

[Juramike]

How did you pull that off?

Found something kinda useful:

My controls
Options (on left side of screen)
Manage your attachments

And it will pull up all the attachments you've ever posted. Give a grand total of your storage space (Whoa!! Thanks, Doug!) used for your attachements. And it will also show how many downloads of your files have been done. [Was it your Saturn image or the Iapetus mosaic that got high score for you?]

I wasn't brave enought to hit the "delete" key to see what would happen...could be very scary.

I, too, have sometimes had the "initializing upload" thing appear to hang on me when I attempt to post. It's only intermittent, and I can't figure out under what circumstances it happens, which is why I haven't posted about it yet. Just refreshing the posting page did fix the problem on one occasion. (I am using IE 7 on Win XP SP2.)

--Emily

I'm still not getting the upload box to light up in this thread. No clue why. Multiple refreshes haven't done it either. I'm flummoxed...

-Mike

[ugordan]

Regarding attachments, I'm glad I wasn't imagining things earlier. It turns out the attachment icons and popup information (filename, size and No. downloads) are the same old ones as before when I browse the forum using Firefox 1.5 here at work. At home with Firefox 2.something it's the "new and improved" design. It could be something in the way the board software handles different browsers or javascripts and such. Makes me wish I can cheat the board into thinking it's 1.5 all the time.
The popup text appears to definitely be embedded in page source, not something the browser figures out.

Another issue with FF 1.5 is the "Quick edit" feature doesn't seem to work, it does nothing when you click "Complete edit", but that's no biggie either.

[djellison]

The new and improved design is selectable for all if you so wish - but it's not customized for UMSF yet There's a drop down in the bottom left. Try it if you like - the new is IPB Board Pro - it'll be the default in October - maybe it'll fix some of the problems people are having with functionality.

Doug

[edstrick]

I'm using IE 6.0.28..... under Win98se

I'm connecting to http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/

Had no problem with it recognizing me tonight.. it's INTERMITTANT that I end up logged in as guest.

[dvandorn]

As for the new default -- I don't mind the colors (well, OK, the grays) or the formatting. But I really dislike the font it uses to display posts, etc. I vastly prefer the current display font. Is that something you can change or control from your end, Doug?

-the other Doug

[stevesliva]

I agree. I like the current font better. Is it Verdana vs Arial?

[djellison]

I like the new font - but I'm in a big minority (none of the admins like it either )

I'll see what I can do by x-ref'ing the CSS's of the two and get the old font on the new theme.

Doug

[ElkGroveDan]

I like the new font - but I'm in a big minority (none of the admins like it either )

My "way cool" comment was absent any qualifiers.

[djellison]

We'll have IP Board Pro Doug&Dan and then IP Board Pro Everyone Else


Doug

[fredk]

So I was able to upload an attachment no problem using Firefox on another machine. It seems the problem (inability to upload) is just with Mozilla.

[jvandriel]

Doug,
can you explain how to add attachments to a post.
I can't even find the upload button as is mentioned
before.
I use Firefox 2.0.0.7

jvandriel

[scalbers]

3600s

Doug

Doug - out of curiosity, was the timeout period longer in the past?

[djellison]

Scroll down to the attachment editor pane of the post page.
Find the browse button - click it- navigate to your file - click open.


Then hit upload - you will see this



Then - if you so wish you can use the drop-down menu which says Manage Current Attachments (n) to add them into the post, or delete them.



Click submit when you've finished your post - job done - with Firefox 2.0.0.7



Nothing special on this machine at all - bog standard XP SP2 install. I don't want to sound like a bastard about this - but it DOES work - I've demonstrated it with this post - if it's not working on your machine, what more can I do apart from recommending you google around for firefox invision 2.3 and see if you can find similar problems elsewhere. Go hunting for other Invision boards and see if you have trouble there as well. If you don't - then let me know which boards and I'll see if I can liase with that forum admin to see what differences there might be. I've hunted the official invision forums http://www.ipsbeyond.com but have found nothing regarding trouble uploading.

You would not believe how frustrating this is and how much swearing I'm doing - because I have not seen a single one of ANY of the symptoms people are describing. Not one. Login is fine, attachments are fine, it's snappy, it works. I'm not a tech guru, I'm not a code monkey. The new version is FANTASTIC for admin - the new registration process means I'm getting 1/10th the number of spammers registering, and it takes me half the time to approve new registrations. I couldn't be happier with how it performs for me...and couldn't be more farked off or in the dark as to why others are having issues.

Doug

[djellison]

Doug - out of curiosity, was the timeout period longer in the past?

It's not a value I ever set. It has been at the default with every version of Invision we've used - so if it's changed, it's because the default has changed.

Doug

[jvandriel]

Doug,

thanks for your quick reply.

But, when I scroll down in the Editor page

there is No Attachments Editor.

( I have switched off the popp-up blocker )

jvandriel

[djellison]

I don't know what to suggest other than what I've already said. Can you find other Invision 2.3 boards that have the same problem (or no problem at all) ?. Is there something unique to your config that a google-search finds? You can see that using the exact same version of Firefox, I'm getting fine results (I upgraded from 2.0.0.5 to .07 just to be sure we were on the same page)

Woahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-hang on a minute

This is the News section - where only admins and mods can start threads or do attachments. Do you have problems in other sub-forums? I've flicked the switch on member attachments in this sub-forum as a double-check.

Doug

[jvandriel]

Doug,

thanks again.

I have 2 computers, 1 running under Vista and the other one running under XP.

The attachment editor in the Vista computer suddenly appeared ( I did check it before

I send you the first E-mail)

but on the XP computer I still do not get the attachment editor.

For now I can live with it and, as you can see, I have already used it to edit

my last post with the Spirit pano from Sol 1315.

Thanks again for your help.

jvandriel

[ElkGroveDan]

You should see if the problem occurs in different browsers - starting with both IE and Firefox on the same machine.

Check all of your security settings and make sure http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com is one of the trusted sites for everything (see my instructions earlier in this discussion)

Note that pop-up blockers are often in place in BOTH your browser and your security routine like McAfee or Norton, so make sure BOTH are off if that's what you are testing for.

[Del Palmer]

I like the new font - but I'm in a big minority (none of the admins like it either )

I'll see what I can do by x-ref'ing the CSS's of the two and get the old font on the new theme.

After a couple of days of getting used to the Pro skin, I definitely would not want to go back to Verdana. In fact, I like Arial so much that I've set my browser fonts to override (already have colors on override, so what the heck). So if the old font is applied to the new theme, I should still see Arial.

[dvandorn]

Whereas Verdana has always been my font of choice, and I have truly enjoyed having it here. To me, Arial is ugly and hard to read.

-the other Doug

[ddeerrff]

Clicking on a thumbnail picture now opens the picture IN A FULL SCREEN sized browser window, bypassing my set default browser window size. Not to full screen, but to a full sized window. This is not the way to last board version behaved. If I want things open to full screen, I'll do it myself.

Anyone else find this as annoying as I do?

[djellison]

Can't say I even noticed the difference - I usually open attachments in their own tabs anyway - and there's not a thing I can do about it even if I hated it There are things I can change - there are things I can't. That's in the can't category. If I had a PHP/SQL guru on the admin team ( and this isn't the first time I've asked for help in that regard) perhaps we could work something out.

[ddeerrff]

Doug, looking back that sounds more harsh than it was meant. Particularly since I mostly lurk and am enriched by other's postings without really contributing anything myself.

I also usually open these pictures in a new tab (SeaMonkey) and that still works fine. But I thought I recalled them also opening in the default size even when opened in a new window.

[djellison]

SeaMonkey

I thought Camino was obscure

Doug

[stevesliva]

Whereas Verdana has always been my font of choice, and I have truly enjoyed having it here. To me, Arial is ugly and hard to read.

Mine too, as far as non-serif fonts go. Arial smooshes words like filial, iliac, italic, subliminal, djellison, legibility, a little too much for my preference. Perhaps I need an environment with less glare, because my font preferences seem to follow what the US govt is trending towards in road sign fonts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/magazine/12fonts-t.html

Fascinating presentation, if you're curious about font legibility. Especially slide #8 in which they vary only the spacing of the font, and it shows why I dislike the smooshiness of Arial.

[Guest_PhilCo126_*]

Doug, don't know if the question was asked before, but on which hardware does the UMSF forum run?

[djellison]

Shared hosting at Imhosted.com -
Operating system Linux
Kernel version 2.6.17.7-grsec
Machine Type i686
Apache version 1.3.37 (Unix)
PERL version 5.8.7