High altitude balloon payload, from Sable-3 discussion |
High altitude balloon payload, from Sable-3 discussion |
Sep 26 2007, 11:16 PM
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#1
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...20&start=20
We began talkin about a UMSF balloon - and who know what might happen if enough people think about something hard enough, thoroughly enough and long enough. How's about this as a starting point. http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/balloon/ with http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/part101.html as an important regulatory start point (I'm going to look up the UK regs for this as well) http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/nova1launch.html is also very impressive - all done in the UK This http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/...video_podc.html is particularly impressive - I like the multiple-cameras slant. Anyway - thought I'd get a thread going - this is an idea I like too much to let it gather dust in a corner - the one thing that I think would be nice to achieve is self-portraiture of some sort - think Beagle 2's WAM etc....perhaps in a corner of the FOV of one of/the imaging system. What sort of limit's should we set ourselves? 1kg 10x10x20cm? (sort of 2U Cubesat-on-a-diet budget) Doug |
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Sep 28 2007, 12:41 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2262 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Melbourne - Oz Member No.: 16 |
Great info AndyG.
Looking at some of the other folk who have done stuff like this, 30 - 35km seems to be reasonable. Surely we've got to be aiming for the 32km 'Mars surface pressure' mark. J -------------------- |
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Sep 28 2007, 12:57 PM
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#17
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
At that level it's a little bit about luck - but I'd say the 30km, 100kft, 10% air pressure, mars air pressure type level is a sensible ultimate goal. Maybe not first time around - but eventually.
Doug |
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Sep 28 2007, 01:43 PM
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#18
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Hey Doug...what do you think of this first approach to a possible name anf badge for the project?...
On following opportunities we could follow this policy and use our beloved ones names...I'm sure each launch would have a distinct personality... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:04 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2262 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Melbourne - Oz Member No.: 16 |
I think that a 2 camera approach is a very good idea. I'm torn between having them pointed in such a way that stitched panoramas are possible versus having them pointed so that we optimize the probability of getting a wider range of individual shots. Hopefully even with just one camera some nice panoramas will be possible. Some quick tests: Nova - images taken 15 seconds apart - altitude change 300ft - altitude 100,000ft Even at low altitudes and with large time intervals this can still be done. SABLE-3 - images taken 1 minute apart - altitude change 800ft - altitude (above ground) 10,000ft If we had two cameras I'd vote for one pointing horizontally and one pointed down at 45 degrees and turned 90 degrees 'portrait', which should give maximum coverage. It may take a while to sort through the images but with a couple of cameras like this firing quite frequently some pretty spectacular stuff should be possible. James -------------------- |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:05 PM
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#20
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Nice logo, ustrax!
Just a general engineering note based on AndyG's terrific table: need to determine an optimum rate of climb (ideally, maximized) in order to minimize thermal effects on the electronics, unless the payload will be environmentally controlled. Major trade-off in all areas is, of course, that more payload weight equals less achievable altitude... -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Sep 28 2007, 02:23 PM
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#21
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Payload wouldn't be thermally 'controlled' per.se - but something like a foam (there's 3cm thick foil covered foam available at my DIY store) cube which would thermally insulate it from the cold - and then the electronics inside would hopefully keep it fairly warm simply by using up the Whr's.
I knew someone would start thinking of logo's and names before we got too far Doug |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:38 PM
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#22
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2262 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Melbourne - Oz Member No.: 16 |
One more stitching test using the SABLE-3 images. These images are fully 6 minutes and 6,400ft apart and still stitch nicely. With two cameras taking pictures 15 seconds apart and we could have 50 images within this time frame, nice.
James EDIT: just came across this page of records for this sort of thing - http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/ARHABrecords.htm -------------------- |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:43 PM
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#23
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
You know how this guys are Doug...
Seing those images I can't avoid to think about something I already made reference here, I would L-O-V-E to see some video footage with sound...what are the major constraints for something of that nature?... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Sep 28 2007, 03:13 PM
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#24
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Storage, Volume, Mass, Power, Money If you can find a small digital camera that can take movies of approx 2 hours onto SD card etc, and last that long on the battery, that's small enough (10 x 10 x 3 cm sort of size) and light enough (<300g) - then maybe. While movies are cool - I think I'd rather have mega-pixel stills than a lower res movie ( although both would be cool.)
Real time video transmission is possible but typically not further than 5km with the transmisison power allowed by the radio spectrum laws. |
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Sep 28 2007, 03:57 PM
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#25
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Payload wouldn't be thermally 'controlled' per.se - but something like a foam (there's 3cm thick foil covered foam available at my DIY store) cube which would thermally insulate it from the cold... Doug Yeah, that'd help. Main concern here is electrical connectors. Probably a good idea to seal them with ScotchGard or RTV, which in addition to adding another insulation layer to minimize thermal contraction/expansion would also prevent moisture intrusion/condensation. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Sep 28 2007, 04:51 PM
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#26
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1643 Joined: 5-March 05 From: Boulder, CO Member No.: 184 |
Hi - this link has a nice high altitude photo from the Edge Of Space Sciences balloon group:
http://www.eoss.org/ansrecap/ar_030/recap13.htm -------------------- Steve [ my home page and planetary maps page ]
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Sep 28 2007, 04:51 PM
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#27
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
One possibility might be to put all the batteries in a custom battery harness which is itself inside a small thermos. That should keep them from getting too cold during the trip up. The downside will be making sure that all the connections are nice and tight.
Yet another possibility would be to put a small "box" of solar panels around any package. At least one of the panels would be pointed towards the sun and delivering power. But then you gotta deal with transformers, etc. -Mike -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
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Sep 28 2007, 05:36 PM
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#28
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
[...]
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Sep 28 2007, 05:55 PM
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#29
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14433 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Actually - the altitude will be limited by the envelope which seem to always burst at 80-110kft
Doug |
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Sep 28 2007, 06:08 PM
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#30
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Good point, Doug. However, ascent velocity is still contrained by payload weight, so it's still a significant consideration. For recovery purposes, seems like you want to get up & down as rapidly as possible in order to limit your touchdown CEP.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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