The West Valley Route Options

[Tesheiner]

Here're the latest navcam pictures taken during sol 1850: http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/navcam/2009-03-18/

Spirit is no longer stuck, but I think the attempt to go on top of HP via the NE path is finished and we are going to the West Valley. A pancam mosaic of the western route is planned for tosol.

[BrianL]

Wagons ho! Yee-haw!

[RoverDriver]

...
t I think the attempt to go on top of HP via the NE path is finished and we are going to the West Valley. A pancam mosaic of the western route is planned for tosol.

That is correct. We are now trying to head west. Now, where's the on ramp for the I-40? ;-)

Paolo

[JayB]

A nice DD from the latest batch of images

http://sidfishes.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=73


edit: sorry should have posted in West valley thread --- moved (thx

[fredk]

The weather at Gusev is looking a bit worse according to the latest update:

As of Sol 1851 (March 18, 2009), Spirit's solar array energy production has decreased to 230 watt-hours, down 18 percent from a week earlier. Atmospheric opacity (tau) has increased sharply, to 1.19.

[Astro0]

Looks dusty out west.
Sol 1851

[climber]

Nice, Astro.
Is that more or less the drive direction?

[Tesheiner]

By the right side of that mosaic, I would say. Next move is planned for today (sol 1854).

[Astro0]

Sol1850 Navcan pan.


I'll leave the drive direction to the tracking data gurus.
Tesh is right, it's a fair bet that it's straight ahead and then take a left at the next corner.

[RoverDriver]

...
I'll leave the drive direction to the tracking data gurus.
Tesh is right, it's a fair bet that it's straight ahead and then take a left at the next corner.

Ok, let's do that then. ;-)

Paolo

[Ipparchus]

Does anyone of you have any altitude and hazard maps of the Goddard-Von Braun area (red for dangerous areas etc)? The maps of this area make me feel quite pessimistic about the ability of Spirit to reach and study these targets. Von Braun has a high tilt (it seems to be difficult to climb it) and Goddard is a crater-shaped target and its tilt and soil slipperiness may make it a difficult to reach target and maybe a sand trap when Spirit tries to get out of it. If she fails to reach and study these targets what other options does she have (what other interesting targets are in this area)?

[Geert]

Does anyone of you have any altitude and hazard maps of the Goddard-Von Braun area (red for dangerous areas etc)?

Problem with all these maps is that you have to work on a very small area and way below the resolution of most instruments (except HiRISE), which simply means that there is not so much data to crunch on and that greatly effects the accuracy of any predictions.

Variance map I posted earlier already, only increased it a bit to show von Braun / Goddard. Red shows area's with large variance in HiRISE brightness which might indicate a rough surface and thus dangerous driving. Blue is slightly better but still dangerous and lightgreen is the least bad.



Below map is maybe interesting, this shows terrain type if I also take into account relative brightness in HiRISE (I would prefer to use CRISM for this, but it won't work on such a small scale). In this case colors do NOT have a specific meaning but they are only used to mark terrain with the same characteristics (brightness and variance). This means that there is a chance that all terrain with the same color, will show approximately the same driving characteristics.



Once again, don't assign any specific meaning to the colors themselves in above image, colors only note area's with the same characteristics, so if Spirit has been driving on terrain with a certain color, and futher on there is terrain with the same color, you might get the same driving experience there. Wish there was more available data (especially on hights/slopes/composition/etc) but apart from HiRISE almost all instruments have not enough resolution to produce trustworthy results in such a small area.

In the end it will be the eyes of Spirit itself with give the most information, together offcourse with the experience of the drivers.

[Astro0]

Astro0 said - "I'll leave the drive direction to the tracking data gurus."

Rover Driver said - "Ok, let's do that then."

Astro0 says: What I meant to say is that "I'll leave the educated guesses responding to a question about the drive direction to the tracking data gurus, and the ACTUAL driving we will whole-heartedly support and watch in admiring back-seat silence to the Expert MER Driving Team".

[RoverDriver]

Astro0 said - "I'll leave the drive direction to the tracking data gurus."

Rover Driver said - "Ok, let's do that then."

Astro0 says: What I meant to say is that "I'll leave the educated guesses responding to a question about the drive direction to the tracking data gurus, and the ACTUAL driving we will whole-heartedly support and watch in admiring back-seat silence to the Expert MER Driving Team".

What I meant to say is that the drive direction you were suggesting was exactly the intended (and now executed) path for the Sol 1854 drive ;-)

Paolo

[Tesheiner]

> ... and now executed...

13m westwards and downslope. That's the longest drive for Spirit since a lot of time! Keep going.

[Tesheiner]

Nice DD caught on action in today's navcam mosaic.

[dilo]

Wow! and is also a big one!

[Tesheiner]

Indeed. Anybody wants to give a try on calculating its diameter?

[Stu]

Whoah... that's one seriously interesting rock Spirit was just looking at...

[mhoward]

Whoah... that's one seriously interesting rock Spirit was just looking at...

Was waiting for someone to post that. She had it in IDD range, but it looks like she decided to pass. Got places to go, apparently.

[eoincampbell]

Wow! and is also a big one!

Sorry if discussed before, but are the DDs considered a threat as well as a benefactor to Spirit ?
Would one have enough force to dislodge or even keel over our rover?
I seem to remember a discussion concerning how "lightweight" the DDs were despite
their spectacular appearance... can't find that thread just now...
thanks in advance
Eoin

[fredk]

Anybody wants to give a try on calculating its diameter?

Looking at some orbital images and trying to identify some features at comparable distances, I estimate that devil was about 1400 m away. That gives a diameter of very roughly 130 m. It could be quite a bit bigger if farther, smaller if closer.

I really hope that as we move closer to the plains we will be more likely to get hit by strong wind gusts. I understand that even a direct hit by a DD would be harmless to the rover, but would no doubt restore us to a showroom-floor sparkling-clean deck!

[jamescanvin]

Beautiful view towards the west on sol 1852.



James

[ngunn]

Can we see the dust devil (or another one) there too? (Farther away, fainter, and a bit to the right of its position in the navcam view.)

[mhoward]

There was a dust devil on the right side of that mosaic; it's subtle in this terrific natural-color version. Not related to the big one, though, since it was taken at a different time.

[SpaceListener]

That picture shows a . Hope that Spirit will be hit so by there.

[AndyG]

It could be quite a bit bigger if farther, smaller if closer.

And for the Father Dougal's amongst us: Small v. far away

Andy

[ustrax]

Beautiful view towards the west on sol 1852.

Indeed a beauty James! Have a doubt here, visiting your site, you make reference to Thera crater...I must be missing something here but aren't we looking in the opposite direction of it?

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Sorry if discussed before, but are the DDs considered a threat as well as a benefactor to Spirit ?
Would one have enough force to dislodge or even keel over our rover?
I seem to remember a discussion concerning how "lightweight" the DDs were despite
their spectacular appearance... can't find that thread just now...
thanks in advance
Eoin

The atmospheric pressure on Mars is only about one-hundredth of that on Earth, so no way a dust devil could tilt the rover. But if one could dislodge some of the dust on the panels that would be very welcome!

[MahFL]

I hope the old girl is not out of breath after driving 13 m !

[jamescanvin]

Indeed a beauty James! Have a doubt here, visiting your site, you make reference to Thera crater...I must be missing something here but aren't we looking in the opposite direction of it?

Yes your right - I was confused and in a hurry. Need more sleep...

Thanks for the complement and correction.

James

EDIT: Am I right in thinking that it is in fact, Grissom Hill?

[ustrax]

Yes, you're right, that's Grissom and I must have entered in another dimension...one where ustrax corrects James...

[dburt]

Whoah... that's one seriously interesting rock Spirit was just looking at...

Agreed. From that single image, it appears to have rock inclusions as well as numerous holes (vesicles) in it. I wonder if it might represent an ejected chunk of highly vesicular impact melt, rather than of lava. Hard to say...

-- HDP Don

[climber]

If I read Eduardo's route map correctly we're about 5 meters north from Sol 767 drive trajectory.
I cannot see any weels marks

[James Sorenson]

If I read Eduardo's route map correctly we're about 5 meters north from Sol 767 drive trajectory.
I cannot see any weels marks

It looks like Mars does not like her surface disturbed, WARNING: SHE WILL ERASE!!! .

[dvandorn]

Agreed. From that single image, it appears to have rock inclusions as well as numerous holes (vesicles) in it. I wonder if it might represent an ejected chunk of highly vesicular impact melt, rather than of lava. Hard to say...

Especially since it has rather obvious layering, which happens to lie parallel to the ground right now. Likely a serendipitous attitude.

The holes could be vesicles, or they could be remnants of inclusions that have either fallen out of the matrix or eroded out of it. The matrix is so highly eroded, especially in planes around its structural layering, that it's not easy to tell.

Looking at the rock in the anaglyph, I dearly want to turn it on its side and look into the crevices, to see the actual thickness of the layering and to try and see if there is any constructional relationship (i.e., alternating hard and soft layers) that would account for the rather obvious layer peel-aways.

-the other Doug

[dvandorn]

It looks like Mars does not like her surface disturbed, WARNING: SHE WILL ERASE!!! .

I have to say, I'm surprised that any of the tracks from either MER are still obvious, after that global dust storm they endured. I think it says a lot about the deposition mechanisms that some tracks have been erased, some partially erased, and some hardly erased at all. And that while some seem to have been swept clean, others are fully or partially buried.

There are obviously dust traps and dust scourers set up in the ground-level microclimate by the landforms and such; I wish we understood them well enough to be able to maneuver poor Spirit into a scouring location, ASAP!

-the other Doug

[Tesheiner]

Its not the first time we address this topic about the lost tracks. While making my latest mosaic on this thread I was looking for that same old path too without luck.
Right about the NW corner we should (well... I hope) see some older wheel marks from when she was investigating HP for the very first time.

[Tesheiner]

We are approaching the NW corner! Have a look to the latest mosaic made with today's navcam pictures (sol 1856).


BTW, a quick check to the rover's data tells us Spirit moved 21m! What a difference, if we compare with the (frustrating) attempts by the NE.

[jamescanvin]

Nice.

I think I'm right in thinking that the two large dark rocks on the 'corner' of HP from this viewpoint are those at 'Gibson' where Spirit first arrived on sol 746/8.

EDIT: here is an old mosaic of mine from back then, showing the rocks I'm talking about.

[ustrax]

BTW, a quick check to the rover's data tells us Spirit moved 21m! What a difference, if we compare with the (frustrating) attempts by the NE.

13+21 not bad for a "crippled" rover...
That's our girl!

[MahFL]

Can we have a route map update ?

[Tesheiner]

Take it easy! It's lunch time here in Spain.

Done.

20 more drives like that and she'll be there......no problems.

Not so fast. This is the easy part mainly because we're driving downslope. If you have a look to the further route to Von Braun with Google Mars, the terrain becomes more complicated. It would be great to see these 10+ or 20+ in the future but I'm not so confident.

[RoverDriver]

...
BTW, a quick check to the rover's data tells us Spirit moved 21m! What a difference, if we compare with the (frustrating) attempts by the NE.

Actually the data I have tells me 25.8m. A new record for driving with 5 wheels.

Paolo

[JayB]

With these great long drags, is there any concern that we'll start wearing through the stuck wheel? I assume the aluminum is anodized and that would certainly help with abrasion resistance, but only to a point.

Probably not in the short term so I guess that's probably something to worry about for next year when we head for the rim of Gusev

[john_s]

I'm imagining the thought experiment of taking one of those wheels and dragging it through some rocky dirt with 10 kg of weight on it (which I think is about the right load). Because we've only gone a few hundred meters(?) total since the wheel froze, my instincts agree with JayB that it would get nice and shiny but probably wouldn't suffer major structural damage.

John.

[MahFL]

Take it easy! It's lunch time here in Spain.

Ah a 3 hour lunch and a siesta ?

[Tesheiner]

Not now but during summer vacations maybe.

Back on topic: here's an annotated version of my previous mosaic pointing at some nearby features: Tsiolkovsky and Von Braun.

[RoverDriver]

I'm imagining the thought experiment of taking one of those wheels and dragging it through some rocky dirt with 10 kg of weight on it (which I think is about the right load). Because we've only gone a few hundred meters(?) total since the wheel froze, my instincts agree with JayB that it would get nice and shiny but probably wouldn't suffer major structural damage.

John.

Since Sol A 779 we drove about 859 m. I doubt the RF wheel has worn out significantly. It definitely is not like this.

Paolo

[Floyd]

That is a great movie Paolo, I memember watching it live on TV. It was very scary when you didn't know it would turn out.

[climber]

Whoa! I didn't thought you could drive so strait on 5 weels

[ElkGroveDan]

It looks like Spirit's trying to build a canal.

[climber]

Schiaparelli, get out of Dan's body!

[Stu]

Lovely detail and depth of field in this new view as R2 - sorry, Spirit - heads through the Valley...

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Whoa! I didn't thought you could drive so strait on 5 weels

That is a keeper! - Classic image of the trenching action, and a shadow of Spirit thrown in for good measure.

[Astro0]

Nearly back to the original BBQ spot!
I wonder if our footprints are still there?

[climber]

Lovely detail and depth of field in this new view as R2 - sorry, Spirit - heads through the Valley...

Thanks Stu, we definitively need your (beautiful) anaglyphs there. Looks much more challenging tho

[BrianL]

With these great long drags, is there any concern that we'll start wearing through the stuck wheel?

Well, if we can abrade it down to a nice, smooth surface, doesn't that solve part of the problem?

[RoverDriver]

Whoa! I didn't thought you could drive so strait on 5 weels
...

We have refined a set of self correcting arcs that seem to work quite well on this type of terrain. It gets more complicated when the terrain is not very uniform and less firm. The Sol 1854 and 1856 drives seem to have been on quite benign terrain.

Paolo

[ElkGroveDan]

I wonder if our footprints are still there?

Probably just a few remains of shrimp tails and a couple of empty Fosters cans that you guys brought from Down Under.

[john_s]

Since Sol A 779 we drove about 859 m. I doubt the RF wheel has worn out significantly. It definitely is not like this.

Paolo

Amazing video! I guess physics is a bit different at 200 mph than at 0.1 mph.

I wonder if anyone has considered going out in the arroyo at JPL and actually trying the wheel-dragging experiment? Could be a fun lunchtime project, though only if there are rover wheels, or equivalents, available for sacrifice...

John.

[Geert]

It looks like Spirit's trying to build a canal.

I wonder if Mars will manage to erase this.

[dvandorn]

Probably just a few remains of shrimp tails and a couple of empty Fosters cans that you guys brought from Down Under.

There goes the concept of guarding against terrestrial contamination on Mars!


-the other Doug

[RoverDriver]

Amazing video! I guess physics is a bit different at 200 mph than at 0.1 mph.

I wonder if anyone has considered going out in the arroyo at JPL and actually trying the wheel-dragging experiment? Could be a fun lunchtime project, though only if there are rover wheels, or equivalents, available for sacrifice...

John.

Just outside the ISIL (the sandbox where we have the engineering model) there is a paved parking lot. I drove the testbed both in the Opportunity and Spirit configurations. In both configurations it sends chills down my spine. Sure, the different gravity field makes quite a difference, still it is not a pretty sight (or sound). In case you ask, this was done when I did the testing of driving with the IDD unstowed.

Paolo

[RoverDriver]

I wonder if Mars will manage to erase this.

No questions about it. Give it 30-50 years and all tracks from both vehicles will be erased. Even Purgatory and Tyrone. The RAT holes will last longer. Hopefully someONE will see them in person before they get erased. It is quite intimidating thinking that the holes I helped drill on Mars will last quite a bit more than I will.

Paolo

[Tesheiner]

This is from Scott Maxwell's blog "Mars and Me" entry for sol 80 i.e. five years ago:

"... Basically the entire extended mission will be devoted to exploring the Columbia Hills. Of course, first we have to get there, or try to. They're planning 60 sols, plus 30 contingency sols, for that. Over the next few days, they'll try to work out how long it will take to drive there, and how long Spirit is likely to last. This will tell them how much time they have left over to do science at random targets of interest along the way."

[MahFL]

We have refined a set of self correcting arcs that seem to work quite well...
Paolo

I think you reached perfection. Bravo !

[MahFL]

This is a nice view.

Crater rim.

[ElkGroveDan]

The RAT holes will last longer. .... It is quite intimidating thinking that the holes I helped drill on Mars will last quite a bit more than I will.

Even on Earth you can find chiseled graffiti from hundreds of years ago in very exposed soft rocks. I can imagine a rat hole in basalt on Mars lasting a thousand years.

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM18ZQ

[fredk]

Crater rim.

Just to be clear, that's not the rim of Gusev, it's Grissom Hill and a few other features well within Gusev. But it is a spectacular view!

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Well, if we can abrade it down to a nice, smooth surface, doesn't that solve part of the problem?

The stuck wheel hasn't (just) been a problem, but has been the reason for probably the most important discovery from Spirit so far!

[ilbasso]

Even on Earth you can find chiseled graffiti from hundreds of years ago in very exposed soft rocks...

...or from 4,600 years ago...
http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp155/t...09/IMG_3734.jpg

[climber]

15.000 years: http://www.culture.gouv.fr/fr/arcnat/lascaux/en/index3.html

[ilbasso]

Although maybe a little better protected in the cave! And we couldn't get the MERs down in a cave anyway...they're getting precious little sunlight as it is.

[HughFromAlice]

Give it 30-50 years and all tracks from both vehicles will be erased.

I've often wondered how long it would take to erase the wheel tracks! Knowing the rate at which they are being erased in different soil types, wind regimes etc could give a lot of very interesting info on geological time frames. In fact, just from the tracks themselves there must be a lot of info (additional to the dragged wheel discoveries).

Is anyone studying this - any papers on it - earlier comments in UMSF - or any one got any comments on this?

[RoverDriver]

I've often wondered how long it would take to erase the wheel tracks! Knowing the rate at which they are being erased in different soil types, wind regimes etc could give a lot of very interesting info on geological time frames. In fact, just from the tracks themselves there must be a lot of info (additional to the dragged wheel discoveries).

Is anyone studying this - any papers on it - earlier comments in UMSF - or any one got any comments on this?

We are getting OT here, so if the Admins want to remove this post please do so. After Opportunity left Duck Bay we stopped at a location where tracks from sol 950-952 and 1291 were visible. The 95x tracks were very degraded from the dust storm of July-August 2007. I believe NAVCAMs and PANCAMS were taken of those tracks and probably this was the best opportunity (no pun intended) to study the track appearance in time.

Paolo

[fredk]

There were great pictures and some discussion in the Leaving Victoria Crater thread, starting with this post.

Also, we saw Spirit's tracks start to get obscured after the big dust storm, check out the thread starting with this post.

[Astro0]

Back in the West Valley...
An enhanced view of Grissom Hill and beyond.

[ustrax]

Hmm...here wondering...how far is that?

[jamescanvin]

About 7.5km from the landing site.

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/press/s...sApollo_br2.jpg

Add maybe 1km to that from our current position.

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/press/s...pApollo_br2.jpg

A little far for a 5 wheeled rover I'd say.

[Tesheiner]

... producing 230 Wh/day. A bit difficult, yes.

Now, back to the current activities, tosol drive was about 12 meters SSW. Pictures should be in the web soon.

[mhoward]

Navcam anaglyph mosaic facing east, sol 1858. 180x90 degree cylindrical projection.

QuickTime VR version (2.9MB)

Looks like the rover drivers have some challenging terrain ahead.

[Tesheiner]

This navcam picture is pointing to the site Spirit was during the first science campaing.


Compare it with James' mosaic here.

[jamescanvin]

Compare it with James' mosaic here.

Might also be a good time to repost the full Gibson Pan:



Posted 26/02/2006 - 37 months ago. Back when Spirit was young a sprightly and able to climb HP here.

And the colour anaglyph

[BrianL]

Well, at least one rover is on the move. I really hate it when they let the scientists out of their cages.

[Tesheiner]

Looks like the rover drivers have some challenging terrain ahead.

<back-seat mode on>

The West Valley has an E-W slope, perpendicular to the planned path, so I would suggest to keep Spirit as much as possible to the left (near HP) to avoid losing altitude.

<back-seat mode off>

[Marz]

I'd agree that hugging Home Plate's base seems like the best drive path through west valley. However, is Tiolkovsky a different composition from Home Plate, or is it part of the same formation that is just split by the valley? If it's different, maybe it's worth closer examination?

[RoverDriver]

<back-seat mode on>

The West Valley has an E-W slope, perpendicular to the planned path, so I would suggest to keep Spirit as much as possible to the left (near HP) to avoid losing altitude.

<back-seat mode off>

That's what we will try to do. The thing to balance is the soil type. Near HP base there are several locations where fine dust has accumulated and as we have seen this type of terrain can lead to trouble.

Paolo

[climber]

IIRC, one of the reason for not using the West Valley Route was because we didn't have enough visual informations as compared to crossing HP or using the East route. Not mentioning the laters were shorter, etc...
Once again, looking at Eduardo's map, I'd said that I guess we have very good coverage (even from to of HP) around Gibson then again around Tartarus; this leads to sol 1363 drive that will join sol 1350 way point.
Either I missunderstood or this is not enough to call the route "known enough" for a Rover Driver standard.
Anyway, even if we can use the pictures we have down to sol 1350 way point or so, this will cover half the distance to Von Braun.

[climber]

By the way, here is a link from Ant103 new and very nice web site that shows a part of the route: http://www.astrosurf.com/merimages/Spirit/...l758-medres.jpg

[Ant103]

Hé hé hé Climber

My version of the West Valley route in color of the Sol 1851

[RoverDriver]

IIRC, one of the reason for not using the West Valley Route was because we didn't have enough visual informations as compared to crossing HP or using the East route. Not mentioning the laters were shorter, etc...
Once again, looking at Eduardo's map, I'd said that I guess we have very good coverage (even from to of HP) around Gibson then again around Tartarus; this leads to sol 1363 drive that will join sol 1350 way point.
Either I missunderstood or this is not enough to call the route "known enough" for a Rover Driver standard.
Anyway, even if we can use the pictures we have down to sol 1350 way point or so, this will cover half the distance to Von Braun.

Of all the routes to VB/G the west valley route was the one that had most coverage which indicated some narrow passages (meaning good driving terrain in some areas might be narrow). Aerial imagery seem to indicate that the terrain N and NW of VB can be difficult to traverse. Unfortunately there is no way to get surface imaging before the rover actually gets there. ;-)

And then you know that rover drivers don't ever have enough data about traversability. Not even after driving on it. ;-)

Paolo

[climber]

I think I've found sol 743 weels tracks
Visible for a few meters before and after these two black rocks in the first 1/4 from the back of the picture a little bit on the right from the center. Agree?

[Tesheiner]

Good catch, climber!
Really, really difficult to see but they are actually there.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pa...LTP2355R2M1.JPG

[alan]

Might also be a good time to repost the full Gibson Pan:


Posted 26/02/2006 - 37 months ago. Back when Spirit was young a sprightly and able to climb HP here.

And the colour anaglyph

James, did you do a color 3D version of the West Valley Pan, sols 1366-1369?

[Tesheiner]

Today was driving sol and I just checked the pancam web to find out that Spirit did another 20+ meters move, definitely entering the West Valley.


Looking forward the pictures to confirm it. Meanwhile, I'll make a preliminary route map update... Done.

[Floyd]

The Images are down and look at this White Trench.

[Temp residence: Old Swan Hotel, Harrogate, North Yorkshire]

[fredk]

I think I've found sol 743 weels tracks

Nice job spotting the tracks, climber! I think what helps their visibility here is that we're looking straight "up" the tracks, so they are heavily foreshortened, so a long stretch of tracks is compressed into a short span of the image.

The exposed white stuff shows nicely again how we completely missed this material during our previous pass through here in the mid sol 700's with six good wheels. Given their interest in the white stuff we exposed on the north side of HP, I wonder if we'll be pausing for a bit to take a closer look here?

[JayB]

" look at this White Trench. "

that's an amazing shot... what is that... 15-20 meters. wow

Given how valuable the broken wheel has turned out to be wonder if the MSL team has decided to add another piece of equipment ... the DATT (Drive Actuated Trenching Tool)












(actually I'm serious.. a stick that drags while driving would seem to be a really good idea)

[Doc]

It seems the distribution of the white material is more widespread than originally thought (maybe it surrounds all of HP). It would be interesting to see if Goddard is also surrounded by the material if indeed it is a volcanic feature.