Post-Conjunction at Home Plate North, Getting ready to leave Options

[jamescanvin]

Conjunction is over, so it is probably a good time to start a new thread.

I just saw this update from Scott via Twitter

Out of solar conjunction & planning to drive Spirit again. Woo-hoo! Come on, little hill-climber, you can do it!

[mhoward]

Conjunction is over, so it is probably a good time to start a new thread.

That's great news. I was starting to get a little worried about Spirit (again). Looking forward to a status update.

[fredk]

Still no new images at exploratorium, though. I hope we can interpret that somewhat ambiguous twitter message as meaning that they've actually heard from Spirit...

[mhoward]

Hmmm. Good point.

[RoverDriver]

Still no new images at exploratorium, though. I hope we can interpret that somewhat ambiguous twitter message as meaning that they've actually heard from Spirit...

We heard from both rovers. MER-A is around 190Wh I heard. Today's drive was postponed for several reasons. Time is running out on our attempts to climb uphill.

Paolo

[dvandorn]

OK, I'll admit my ignorance -- what was wrong with the idea of driving downhill and making our way around Home Plate on the ground below? As I recall, the parking spot was selected with the idea of driving down, not up, in mind.

-the other Doug

[centsworth_II]

OK, I'll admit my ignorance -- what was wrong with the idea of driving downhill and making our way around Home Plate on the ground below?

The trip to the post winter objectives south of Home Plate would be quicker if Spirit could cut across the top -- more direct, easier terrain.

[RoverDriver]

The trip to the post winter objectives south of Home Plate would be quicker if Spirit could cut across the top -- more direct, easier terrain.

Not to mention we have already driven on it and we have ground based imaging.

Paolo

[climber]

How much do we have to drive to get the solar panels leveled?

[RoverDriver]

How much do we have to drive to get the solar panels leveled?

One or two drives worth. The ramp were we are parked is quite short, maybe 1-1.5 mt? I don't recall exactly.

Paolo

[peter59]

Everything indicates that we are after the solar conjunction. I'm not sure, but the time in the name of the files is significantly higher.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/navcam/2008-12-16/

[mars loon]

I just got word from a team member that signal has been reacquired for both Spirit and Opportunity

Spirit is up to about an amazing 200 WHRs. way better than 89 !!

The next new adventures are on TARGET. The girls are ready to roll !!

more at my NJ lecture later this week at AAI astro club

ken

[mhoward]

We've already heard that about seven posts up, but it's still good. 200 Wh would be news.

There is a Navcam pair on Exploratorium from Spirit Sol 1761, which is today (soon to be yestersol). No move yet. There is an existing Navcam image from back on Sol 1724, and comparing the two seems to show some changes due to wind, although it's hard for me to say how much of it is due to the lighting. The sol 1724 image was taken almost an hour later in the day.

Onward and upwards! Both in elevation, and Wh's.

[fredk]

We were doing around 170 Whrs before conjunction, so 190 or 200 is pretty good. I'm not sure, but that seems like too big an increase to be due to just the increase in sunlight as we head into spring. So maybe dust is clearing from the air (tau is dropping) faster than the dust is falling onto the arrays, raising the dust factor. Or maybe we had a small cleaning event?...

I've been wondering about the optimal tilt for the arrays. Is anyone keeping track of the maximum solar elevation these days? If we drove onto level ground now, would that improve or worsen the power situation?

[peter59]

Unfortunately, rover is increasingly pushed to the right. This tendency worried me.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...cam/2008-12-21/

[alan]

If they get all three wheels on the left side onto the top of home plate could they drive mostly parallel to to the edge until the right side wheels are on top too?

[RoverDriver]

Unfortunately, rover is increasingly pushed to the right. This tendency worried me.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...cam/2008-12-21/

The terrain on the right side of the rover is more benign: lower slopes and smoother. Unfortunately it seems that in spite of moving to a better surface does not help making much progress uphill.

Paolo

[RoverDriver]

If they get all three wheels on the left side onto the top of home plate could they drive mostly parallel to to the edge until the right side wheels are on top too?

Yes, probably that would do, but it would take several drives and very likely the rover would slip downhill adding difficulties to an already complex situation. At this time I do not think it is a good idea to change the rover heading so drastically that would affect an emergency drive downhill. As it often happens, many good ideas have to be discarded to maintain the rover safe.

Paolo

[OWW]

Is it my imagination?

Or, or, or.... could it really be? I would like to know Spirit's power numbers now!!!!!!!!!!

[Tesheiner]

Wow!
I was coming here to add a post about the latest "bump" which happened yestersol (1772) but this navcam shot, if it's trully a cleaning event, is a great gift. Thanks Santa!

<searching for a previous navcam shot...>

[Tesheiner]

Got it!
Here's two shots at this same pointing; the one to the left was taken on sol 1435 while the one to the right was on sol 1772.

[Astro0]

Doug blowing out those 30 candles may have made a difference after all!
Animation here....and detail here

Hopefully this is not just a trick of the light and there has been some improvement to power levels.

Astro0

[akuo]

Yay!

Definitely not a trick of light since you can see dust streaks on the hinged solar panel. The cells closer to pancam seem a lot cleaner! This looks like great news

[helvick]

Looks like a significant change to me, can't wait to see power numbers.

[sci44]

You see? Gluing on a mince-pie, glass of sherry and a "Dear Santa" letter onto the side of the Rover is *much* more effective than adding silly wipers on the panel. This way Spirit is guaranteed to get a good cleaning every Xmas!
Seriously, if that is right, well spotted guys!

[BrianL]

Back to the bump, which I perceive as intentionally downward...
Does this mean the attempts to get back on top at this spot are over?

[imipak]

Is it my imagination or does the dust look a bit thicker on the rear (I think?) panels, to the right of the image? If so I hope it's not enough to negate the power gain from the cleaner panels

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Those two pics in Tesheiners posting make it pretty evident that a cleaning event has taken place. Did we ever have such a partial cleaning before, with dust streaks on the panels? Numbers, numbers please!

->

Well spotted OWW!

[Fran Ontanaya]

The rear hinge and a wire are partially covered by darker dust. And the... huh... stick, has a dark streak

[Shaka]

Not before time either! HazCam
Looks like it's all downhill from here, guys.
I grok that. There's science a'waitin' along the west edge of HP!

[fredk]

The rear hinge and a wire are partially covered by darker dust.

The dust around here is light. It may look like streaks of dark dust, but those are really the areas where the dust has been cleared.

Man, I can't wait to hear some numbers!

[CosmicRocker]

Perhaps it's premature to join the cheerleaders, but are these rovers fortunate, or what? Can someone toss us a bone, for crying out loud?

[Tesheiner]

While still waiting for new Whr figures, just one remark for those comparing the two navcams I posted before. The idea was to have a reference picture together with the latest image to be sure what we were seeing was real and not an image artifact. If anybody wants to make comparisions about dust levels on them, remember that the first picture was taken about one year ago and not last week.

[hortonheardawho]

sol 1738-1761 R2 comparison:




Another R2 of the solar cells was taken on 1772 labeled pancam_dust_motion. The stamp image actually looks dustier - so we will have to wait for the full size image download.

[Guest_Oersted_*]

But Horton, that comparison is not with an image taken after the possible cleaning event, is it?

[hortonheardawho]

But Horton, that comparison is not with an image taken after the possible cleaning event, is it?

The animation was made to show that there was not nuch change between sols 1738 and 1761.

The 1772 R2 pancam image when posted hopefully will show more change.

[jamescanvin]

The 1772 R2 pancam image when posted hopefully will show more change.

Here is a gif flick between the sol 1761 and 1772 'dust_motion' pancams

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[djellison]

Something's definitely happened, but those few cells visible in the Pancam frames are less convincing that the large streaks across the right rear array on the Navcam shots.

[jamescanvin]

I think that this pancam is pointed at the rear of the right side array which shows very little change compared to other parts shown in the navcam image.

[RoverDriver]

I think that this pancam is pointed at the rear of the right side array which shows very little change compared to other parts shown in the navcam image.

That is correct. This pancam subframe was used to compare its vew with the same pancam subframe we captured during the first attempt to drive uphill.

Paolo

[sci44]

I was wondering - as you know, Spirit is trying to climb up a fairly steep slope. Looking at the direction of the dust streaks as it appears to "clear", could that be consistant with mechanical vibration aiding the clearance, or is that not possible - so this is purely the wind doing the work? To what extent could the clearing be an optical illusion - ie, when there is bright light fully reflected by the panels, they appear dusty, when not, the dusty patterns on the dark panels stand out..

Just my 2 cents..

[PaulM]

I was wondering if the dust movement was caused by a Marsquake.

[Fran Ontanaya]

But Mars crust is dead, and probably a quake strong enough to shake the rover would make a lot of dust go airborne over Gusev.

A very small vibration can't be the solution, or that shaking mode they tried to clean the MiniTES mirror would have been enough.

[PaulM]

But Mars crust is dead, and probably a quake strong enough to shake the rover would make a lot of dust go airborne over Gusev.

The Viking seismometer did not detect any Marsquakes. However as this abstract makes clear the seismometer was not very sensitive and only worked on none windy days:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1979GeoRL...6..368G

It is stated in this article that a picture taken by MRO may be evidence of a Marsquake:

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/03/03/hi...ches-in-action/

[Fran Ontanaya]

There must be a minimum seismic level the MER can directly sense if it tries to.
Would the vibration trigger the dust devil capture program if it was running (and would the microscope be able to capture movement if it was looking)?

About the avalanches, I remember from high school geology that thermal expansion, abrasion, frost weathering, weight removal or even haloclastia or chemical weathering could be involved.

[djellison]

There must be a minimum seismic level the MER can directly sense if it tries to.

It has IMU's and Accelerometers, not Seismometers. This is an issue we've covered before here.

Even if it detected shuddering from a DD (and indeed, there is about a pixels worth of shift at the summit of Husband Hill during strong winds) then by the time the rover had stopped doing whatever it was doing ( if indeed it has the power to be doing anything at that time anyway ) - it wouldn't even know which direction to point the Navcams to take an image of the DD that would be long gone anyway.

The new software to do DD/Cloud watching is a far more sensible and productive means to achieve that sort of thing.

Doug

[RoverDriver]

Indeed. We tried to see what happens to the testbed when we drop a 30lb rock from a height of about 3' near the rover. No indications whatsoever from the IMU and the drop could be felt throughout the Sandbox.
This was done in preparation for one seismic observation (MERB) during Conjunction which unfortunately was never sequenced.

Paolo

PS: Happy New Year!

[ElkGroveDan]

Happy New Year Paolo.

Say....before you put down your sunglasses and took off your leather gloves left for the weekend did you happen to glance over at the dashboard? Was there a gauge labeled Wh? Can you give us a hint what it was at?

[peter59]

While still waiting for new Whr figures . . .

December 29, 2008
http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressr.../20081229a.html
"Occasional cleaning of dust from the rovers' solar panels by Martian wind has provided unanticipated aid to the vehicles' longevity. However, it is unreliable aid. Spirit has not had a good cleaning for more than 18 months."

[djellison]

That article was probably penned before this suspected event anyway

Doug

[lyford]

A cleaning event would be a good way to celebrate 5 years on Mars.... maybe the cosmos is just waiting for dramatic timing.

[Stu]

Yep, a cleaning event would be a fantastic New Year pressie!

On the subject of celebrating, some personal "5 year reflections" here... hope others will share their thoughts and memories too; it would be fascinating reading, I'm sure, especially for our newer and younger members who weren't actually there at the time.

[centsworth_II]

... for our newer and younger members who weren't actually there at the time.

My granddaughter was born as Spirit was working its way down Haskin Ridge from the summit of Husband Hill. Both continue to fill me with wonder. My Granddaughter must undergo daily dust clearing events!
(Happy new year to all!)

[RoverDriver]

Happy New Year Paolo.

Say....before you put down your sunglasses and took off your leather gloves left for the weekend did you happen to glance over at the dashboard? Was there a gauge labeled Wh? Can you give us a hint what it was at?

I don't have exact numbers but I heard around 150Wh. It was decided t drive down the slope and abandon the path uphill. The drive was supposed to happen middle of the week. Unfortunately the DNS station had hydraulics issues with the antenna and the sequence was not radiated. The drive was sent on New Years Eve. Hopefully the bubbles in our virtual champagne will help in bringing new Whs for the new year.

Paolo

[CosmicRocker]

I've been eagerly watching for the much anticipated TPS December Mars Rover Update, assuming it would mention a recent cleaning event if there actually had been one. It just popped up at the Planetary Society's web site a little while ago. I see no mention of a recent cleaning event; only a comment that they are hopefully waiting for one.

Although we didn't hear the good news we were hoping for, as usual, there is a lot of other interesting news contained in the report.

[CosmicRocker]

I know this is OT for this thread (move it, if necessary), but Salley's report mentioned the Garrels pan.

I'm a big fan of that geochemist. I can see parts of the pan in MMB. Has anyone assembled it in full Technicolor? His textbook is a classic.

[djellison]

It's BnW pan, similar to the Lyell pan - but a bit closer to the cape, not as close as the final nice postcard of the cape however.

Doug

[jamescanvin]

Garrels was taken in colour but in the end the L2 & L5 were discarded before being downlinked to free memory so it is only in L7.

[Ipparchus]

I didn`t hear anywhere if there really was or not a recent cleaning event that has vanished some of the Spirit`s solar panel dust coat. I think that the photo that we all saw a few days ago in this site shows clearly that such an event really happend, but why then MER team says nothing if that`s the case?! how many watts/hours has now Spirit?

[djellison]

Please read through this thread for all the information. It's been covered already.

[Guest_Oersted_*]

I for one am still looking forward to info on an eventual change in power output...

[centsworth_II]

I for one am still looking forward to info on an eventual change in power output...

I'm looking forward to the next Spirit update. If Rover Driver's comment, "around 150Wh", reflects an accurate post dust pattern "change" figure, then apparently there was no change as far as power goes.

[Tesheiner]

FWIW, there is a deck mosaic planned to be taken today (sol 1780) with the navcam.

01780::p1914::02::5::0::0::5::0::10::navcam_5x1_deck_LEYE_3bpp

[Astro0]

While we wait for power numbers, movement, deck pans etc, here's a fun Bonestell polar panorama with virtual rover (and some virtual ground) to enjoy.

...and before anyone says it, yes, there's not enough dust, I know.

Astro0

[briv1016]

According to the tracking site the Bonestall Pan is not fully downlinked yet?

[djellison]

95% of it's down - and of the remaining 5% - it's mostly lower-tier fill in images.

[Ipparchus]

I `d like to propose a route for Spirit, that I think, could possibly make her arrive to Goddard and Von Braun easier and faster. Spirit could drive down the slope she is on, then drive west following her old tracks and climb on the ramp she used on Sol 755 to arrive on Home Plate. After that, she could easily and fast drive on the good terrain of HP and arrive to the South edge where she could find a good ramp (a low-degree slope) to drive down and continue South until she reaches Goddard or Von Braun (the whole route is represented with a red line). Please, tell me your opinion about this proposed route. I would be grateful to have, also, a comment from Paolo, the Rover Driver! I`m sending you a new (my) version of the great post I found in the site. I hope you like it! Happy Birthday Spirit !!! Astonish us more times than you have done before!

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[djellison]

then drive west following her old tracks and climb on the ramp she used on Sol 755 to arrive on Home Plate.

She did that with 6 wheel drive. She can't get up the slope she's on now with 5 wheel drive - I doubt she'd get up the 755 slope with it either.

Whilst straight over home plate would have been preferable - going the 'long way round' has benefits, a trench that will depict the distribution of more silica, if it's there, down one length of home plate will be interesting.

[PaulM]

Now that Spirit is committed to backing off Home Plate, I think that Spirit should retrace its old route back to Lowe Ridge.

My reason for suggesting this is that a route already driven is guaranteed to contain no sand traps. My suggested route may be even safer than the originally planned route diagonally across Home Plate. As was demonstrated on Sol 1384 there are hidden sand traps even in the apparently solid ground on the top of Home Plate.

I understand that the safest way to escape from a mine field is to retrace your old footsteps. This is effectively what I am suggesting that Spirit should do.

[sci44]

With only 150W/h available, wont most of the driving be short hops mostly within the field of view for the Navcams/Pancams? Wouldn't that help avoid that danger? Unless there is a good reason, I would have thought it better to cover new ground..

[mhoward]

She did that with 6 wheel drive. She can't get up the slope she's on now with 5 wheel drive - I doubt she'd get up the 755 slope with it either.

The interesting question is, could she now make it up the slope slightly to the east? Hard to say.

[djellison]

She did get onto Home Plate with 5WD after the Silica / Innocent Bystander etc. campaign

Doug

[mhoward]

She did get onto Home Plate with 5WD after the Silica / Innocent Bystander etc. campaign

True, and I'd like to think she could make it. That said, a trip around to the west has some appeal, despite the lurking danger of getting stuck.

An anaglyph view east-ish:

[BrianL]

On the other side of the planet, there seems to be a high level of confidence that the purgatoids can be identified and avoided, or should embedding occur, that the rover can be easily extracted. Does that same confidence exist with Spirit's "purgatoids", such as Tyrone or Tartarus? Can areas of likely or even possible embedding due to the dragging wheel be identified before being driven into?

Also, why not put the stuck wheel in front? Would this not give earlier warning of increased resistance to movement while the driving wheels are still on fairly solid ground?

[djellison]

Also, why not put the stuck wheel in front?

Significant testing and experimentation shows that dragging is the better driving method.

[lyford]

Plus, dragging the wheel behind gives it an Igor-esque mad scientist limp -

"Yes, MARSTER!"

[djellison]

I tend to describe it as a puppy dragging a broken paw -it gets more 'awwwww' from an audience.

[ElkGroveDan]

Stu's going to have fun with you over that one Doug. After all, it's just a machine.

[fredk]

Spirit could drive down the slope she is on, then drive west following her old tracks and climb on the ramp she used on Sol 755 to arrive on Home Plate.

For a long time I've considered myself in the "if we can't get onto HP here, drive down and try to climb onto HP somewhere else" camp (is it actually a camp?!). As others have pointed out, we've done it before with five wheels, on sol 1306.

Remember why we chose this spot at the edge of HP for our winter haven: it had the steepest slope! So it's not surprizing it's hard to get up here. Almost anywhere else should be easier to climb onto HP. And there are spots that would be much easier.

I guess I'm driven by fear of getting bogged down in West Valley. Also it's a matter of time: a route over HP would be more likely to get us to von Braun/Goddard before a catastrophic failure.

[fredk]

...a puppy dragging a broken paw...

Isn't she getting a little long in the tooth to be a puppy?

[djellison]

it had the steepest slope!

Steepest NORTH FACING slope.

Doug

[Stu]

I tend to describe it as a puppy dragging a broken paw -it gets more 'awwwww' from an audience.

I use the puppy/broken paw image myself for "general" groups... for more spacey groups I compare it to "that little robot in SILENT RUNNING that has to walk with a limp..."



That usually gets a BIG "Awwwwwww!"

[CosmicRocker]

The interesting question is, could she now make it up the slope slightly to the east? Hard to say.

If you are talking about the sol 768 location (the second place Spirit climbed onto Home Plate), I think it would be worth trying before going all the way to Silica Valley for an attempt. Even though Spirit had the use of all six wheels when she climbed up on sol 768, the slope appears to be moderate. Attached is a MMB anaglyph panorama of the approach showing the rover's track.

[peter59]

Finally a clear decision.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...89P1212R0M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/re...89P1313R0M1.JPG

[briv1016]

The real question now is what are our power levels now that where at a near zero tilt?

[Stu]

On the move again...



Animation here.

[RoverDriver]

The real question now is what are our power levels now that where at a near zero tilt?

We are at about 13 degrees tilt (10 deg northerly tilt), not flat. The values I have seen (~180Wh) are from sol 1782 which has peen party spent at 30 deg so it is not representative of the values we will have from now on. We have to be patient for a couple of days.

Paolo

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

Judging by the deep shadows the sky looks like it must be quite clear.

[mhoward]

Emily wrote:

Spirit has slid downhill, and can no longer see up onto the top of Home Plate.

Just to get super-nitpicky, I think we may still be high up enough to see over Home Plate, just. Probably not for long, though.

Edit: I mean from the camera mast, obviously.

[brellis]

Remember to look both ways before crossing the (sol 766) tracks!

[Tesheiner]

Next move: Left or right? Time for a poll?

Based on the imaging plan I would say East.

01784::p0665::03::10::0::0::10::0::20::navcam_5x1_az_108_3_bpp
01784::p0765::01::10::0::0::10::0::20::navcam_5x1_az_288_1_bpp

[RoverDriver]

Based on the imaging plan I would say East.

01784::p0665::03::10::0::0::10::0::20::navcam_5x1_az_108_3_bpp
01784::p0765::01::10::0::0::10::0::20::navcam_5x1_az_288_1_bpp

There is a potential passage about 7m to the east. It was seen on Sol 768 IIRC, it might be traversable. We'll see.

Paolo

[Ipparchus]

There is a potential passage about 7m to the east. It was seen on Sol 768 IIRC, it might be traversable. We'll see.

Paolo

Paolo, when is Spirit going to move again, east? What distance can she rove on each sol with the current watt/hour numbers ? Has the MER team got a plan to find a ramp and drive on HP?

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[RoverDriver]

Paolo, when is Spirit going to move again, east? What distance can she rove on each sol with the current watt/hour numbers ? Has the MER team got a plan to find a ramp and drive on HP?

All very good questions, for which I have no answers yet. There will be a pow-wow today discussing these issues but I will be on a MER-B shift today so I am not sure I will be able to attend. I will let you know if I hear anything.

Paolo

[mhoward]

New Navcam pan for Sol 1784. Here once again is my crude stitch (QuickTime 3.6 MB)

[Doc]

And a panorama for quick browse.



The ground sure looks like its tilted towards the plains... watch your step

[Guest_Zvezdichko_*]

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/na...89P1914L0M1.JPG

I think that we have less dust than before. What do you think?

[djellison]

In some places less, in some places more - I think we're seeing redistribution rather than clearance here.

[ElkGroveDan]

But a good sign nonetheless. Now if we get a few more "redistribution" events it might redistribute some of the dust to the ground.

[djellison]

Oh yeah. We're at 'cleaning time' in terms of season - we're less than 20m from the last SIGNIFICANT cleaning event location. All the signs are positive.

Doug