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Soviet Luna Missions
PhilHorzempa
post May 4 2006, 03:05 AM
Post #101


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I thought that it was time to start up a discussion of what we know, or
would like to know, about the Soviet Luna Missions.

To start off, I have heard many a reference to the landing system utilized
by the early landers, such as Luna 9. However, I have yet to find a report,
or even a diagram, that shows the sequence of events, or such details as
the air bags. If such references do not exist, I hope that some of the UMSF
community have Russian contacts that could lead us to the source material
before it ends up in the dust bin of history.

In addition, I heard of an effort several years ago to obtain ALL of the imagery
from Lunakhods 1 and 2. Does anyone know if that effort was able to
secure that data?

Also, as far as Lunas 15, 18 and 23, the sample-return missions that didn't
quite make it home, are there any official reports "out there" that detail what
actually occurred to those missions? Or will we have to wait for the
high-resolution images from the LRO to determine their fates?


Another Phil
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John Whitehead
post Nov 14 2007, 12:10 AM
Post #102


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Regarding the Luna 16, 20, and 24 sample returns, does anyone have solid verifiable information about the mass or physical size of the upper part that launched off the moon? I have seen conflicting information that the earth entry capsule (the sphere at the top) was anywhere between 1 foot and 3 feet in diameter. Anything more accurate and verifiable would be much appreciated. Has anyone been to the NPO Lavochkin Museum where the sample return capsules are (or were) on display?

Below is some information about how the Luna ascent vehicles worked:

It was functionally very simple engineering, tailored to the particular physical situation. The moon's small size (compared to Mars) permitted a direct return. Not going into lunar orbit meant no circularization (orbit insertion) burn, and the fact that the target (earth) was gravitationally large and nearby meant no midcourse corrections either. No need for any engine restarts or staging. A single propulsive burn from the 1-stage ascent vehicle was simply timed (both moment of launch relative to the calendar, and burn duration).

Guidance consisted of flying a vertical trajectory off the moon. The vernier engines were controlled by a local vertical sensor, a pendulum! Site selection was limited to the east side of the moon, where a vertical ascent reduced the geocentric velocity compared to the moon's, so it was effectively just a deorbit burn with respect to the earth. Velocity would have been less than lunar escape velocity, since the earth was sitting there pulling it home. The return stage had a transmitter that could be switched on and off by commands from earth, and the resulting signals received on earth were used to predict the landing point accurately enough to go out and find it.

All this is explained in a paper by Boris Girshovich, presented at the National Space Society's 26th International Space Development Conference, Dallas Texas 2007May25-28. See isdc.nss.org/2007/index.html.

Also I found an online paper in the Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Vol. 7, Nr. 1, Jan 1996, by Andrew J. LePage. He points out that the return capusle was essentially just falling almost straight toward earth, and notes that they had to land near 56 degrees east longitude on the moon, in order to make the simplified return scheme work. The ascent vehicle is said to be 520 kg total, roughly 300 kg of which would have to be expended propellant. The sample return capsule is described as 40 kg total and 50 cm in diameter, which suggests that the "3 feet" diameter noted by the Girshovich paper is a typo.

John W.
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Posts in this topic
- PhilHorzempa   Soviet Luna Missions   May 4 2006, 03:05 AM
- - DonPMitchell   My guess is they were not published, but film reco...   Sep 29 2006, 02:27 PM
|- - karolp   Hi, I recently encountered a Polish space encyclo...   Oct 20 2006, 03:30 PM
- - slava   Hello:) From Ural with cosmic love, special 4 us, ...   Nov 5 2007, 01:26 PM
- - Toma B   Ups Google Error 403 Forbidden   Nov 5 2007, 02:27 PM
- - John Whitehead   Regarding the Luna 16, 20, and 24 sample returns, ...   Nov 14 2007, 12:10 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Nov 13 2007, 07:1...   Nov 16 2007, 04:51 PM
- - kenny   The capsule was certainly not 3 feet in diameter. ...   Nov 16 2007, 09:27 AM
|- - John Whitehead   QUOTE (kenny @ Nov 16 2007, 09:27 AM) The...   Nov 21 2007, 06:57 PM
- - peter59   I checked today the old broken link, and met me a ...   Oct 6 2009, 06:36 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (peter59 @ Oct 6 2009, 08:36 PM) Lu...   Oct 6 2009, 06:43 PM
||- - SFJCody   I wonder what prompted this release?   Oct 6 2009, 07:28 PM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (SFJCody @ Oct 6 2009, 02:28 PM) I ...   Oct 6 2009, 07:46 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (peter59 @ Oct 6 2009, 11:36 AM) I ...   Oct 6 2009, 07:39 PM
|- - Hungry4info   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Oct 6 2009, 02:39 PM...   Oct 7 2009, 02:44 PM
- - Phil Stooke   They have been talking about this for years. When...   Oct 6 2009, 07:43 PM
- - 4th rock from the sun   What a nice surprise! I can't wait to try ...   Oct 7 2009, 09:16 AM
- - marswiggle   Panoramas 12 and 13 in that link (click page 3) se...   Oct 7 2009, 01:46 PM
|- - Poolio   QUOTE (marswiggle @ Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM)...   Oct 7 2009, 03:08 PM
- - ngunn   That is fantastic, marswiggle, thanks a million. W...   Oct 7 2009, 02:46 PM
- - imipak   Fantastic stuff - I'm showing my age, no doubt...   Oct 7 2009, 04:12 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (imipak @ Oct 7 2009, 11:12 AM) I w...   Oct 7 2009, 04:17 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Yes, that is Alexander (Sasha) Basilevsky, a veter...   Oct 7 2009, 05:33 PM
- - Astro0   Wow, these images are incredible. Imagine if we (U...   Oct 8 2009, 03:52 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (Astro0 @ Oct 7 2009, 10:52 PM) 1) ...   Oct 8 2009, 04:48 PM
|- - Gsnorgathon   QUOTE (stevesliva @ Oct 8 2009, 08:48 AM)...   Oct 8 2009, 08:25 PM
- - antipode   Wow Astro0 that is an absolutely stunning image on...   Oct 8 2009, 09:24 AM
|- - MahFL   Can anyone tell us how far away and how high those...   Oct 8 2009, 01:37 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Different parts of the rim of Le Monnier crater ar...   Oct 8 2009, 03:07 PM
- - dilo   Really impressive work, Astro0. The expresion ...   Oct 8 2009, 05:40 PM
- - Astro0   Dilo asked: Where did you take the spacecraft deta...   Oct 8 2009, 09:15 PM
|- - dilo   Thanks for the answer, Astro0.   Oct 9 2009, 03:47 PM
- - peter59   I checked today link to "Laboratory for compa...   Oct 12 2009, 03:55 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (peter59 @ Oct 12 2009, 05:55 PM) L...   Oct 12 2009, 05:20 PM
- - Paolo   I had never noticed that many of the side camera p...   Oct 12 2009, 07:02 PM
- - elakdawalla   I just got a few diagrams from Sasha Basilevsky th...   Oct 21 2009, 06:47 PM
- - Hungry4info   I'm pretty sure the last one was used, but I a...   Oct 21 2009, 07:57 PM
- - elakdawalla   So does that mean - they had a 30 degree field of ...   Oct 21 2009, 08:24 PM
- - Phil Stooke   The overlap area at the back, if any, is probably ...   Oct 21 2009, 08:49 PM
- - Phil Stooke   This is a comparison of one of the new Lunokhod 1 ...   Oct 24 2009, 09:11 PM
- - ngunn   I'd been wondering if anyone was working on th...   Oct 24 2009, 09:40 PM
- - peter59   Information for those who know Russian language. T...   Dec 18 2009, 10:33 AM
|- - tedstryk   THANKS!!!!!   Dec 18 2009, 08:20 PM
- - kenny   This Luna 20 photo has been seen elsewhere, and ...   Mar 19 2011, 04:47 PM
- - Phil Stooke   The mirror image business complicates all interpre...   Mar 19 2011, 07:22 PM
- - kenny   Close up of the dril hole area, from a better phot...   Mar 19 2011, 08:45 PM
|- - tedstryk   I made mosaics with the fragments I could find. ...   Mar 20 2011, 12:14 AM
- - kenny   Very nice panos. The pair on your blog illustrate...   Mar 20 2011, 01:58 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Kenny asked me this question privately, but I thou...   Mar 23 2011, 04:14 PM
- - Explorer1   I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask; h...   Mar 24 2011, 06:39 AM
|- - Shan   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Mar 24 2011, 12:09 PM)...   Nov 4 2020, 02:38 PM
- - Hungry4info   Hasn't been found as far as I know, and I woul...   Mar 24 2011, 07:52 AM
- - kenny   No problem re Luna 20, Phil. Rather than post it p...   Mar 24 2011, 09:37 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Looking ahead to the next Russian missions... Ch...   Apr 3 2011, 06:27 PM
- - Paolo   apparently a tiny Luna 16 sample is to be auctione...   Nov 4 2018, 07:57 PM
- - Steve G   Some good news about Russia's Luna 25, that it...   Jul 7 2020, 03:40 PM
- - Paolo   check out this Roskosmos release for the 50th anni...   Oct 27 2020, 08:14 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (Paolo @ Oct 27 2020, 09:14 PM) che...   Nov 16 2020, 09:22 AM
|- - Shan   QUOTE (Paolo @ Nov 16 2020, 02:52 PM) and...   Nov 17 2020, 02:46 AM
- - Paolo   I have grabbed from one of the videos in the previ...   Oct 28 2020, 01:04 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Interesting! They seem new to me, but the fir...   Oct 28 2020, 04:17 PM
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