IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)
tedstryk
post Dec 29 2004, 10:36 PM
Post #1


Interplanetary Dumpster Diver
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4404
Joined: 17-February 04
From: Powell, TN
Member No.: 33



On my website sometime back, I added a page on the image fragment sent back by the Mars-3 Lander. I released serveral versions, including the best quality processing using othodox techniques I would use on other images plus colorization here:
http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/fragmentc.jpg
However, I released another image, which I called a "What if" image. This image can be seen here http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/m3s5b.jpg It was produced via extreme processing of the original data to make a Mars-like scene, but I made it clear on my website it was only a speculative image. I strongly doubt if the raw data even shows Mars at all - it could be all noise. But since this mode of processing looked strangely Viking-like, I figured I would put it on the web. I was warned by several, who said that while fun, some kooks might take it seriously. My response was that I really don't care what kooks think. Then I noticed this web page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_2
They used the overprocessed image. I feel like it is being presented as a true photograph. This is of concern.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
PDP8E
post Dec 12 2007, 06:57 PM
Post #2


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 808
Joined: 10-October 06
From: Maynard Mass USA
Member No.: 1241



MY SPECULATIVE ANALYSIS OF THE SOVIET MARS 3 LANDER IMAGE


I cropped the ‘probable data’ portion from the original image.
Attached Image




I wrote three C/C++ programs to reduce only image noise:
• Eliminate salt and pepper noise with a modified rank order filter
• Reduce Gaussian noise with a modified sigma filter
• Reduce other noise (speckle and non-Gaussian) via normalization

Attached Image


The modifications I made to several well known filter algorithms (Lee’s sigma filter, the Frost MSE filter, and the rank order filters, -etc.) were done in such a way as to only adjust noisy pixels and to leave the rest of the image untouched. The programs characterized each pixel as either: ‘image’ or ‘highly probable noise’; the programs then assigned the noisy pixels new values depending on their noise type: rank order median for salt and pepper, sigma values or Gaussian, -etc. In the end, over 64% of the final pixels have retained their exact original values. I then wrote another C program to zoom out the image (3x) using the bi-cubic spline interpolation algorithm from the Harley & Weeks image processing handbook.

My Top 4 Interpretations of the Resulting Image


Attached Image

(1) Most Probable - (bright horizontal line at the bottom) - Looking down at the ground at something less then 45 degrees, but not under the ship. The dark area is disturbed soil; may be caused by a skidding/rolling type landing. We are looking out less then 2 meters (?). The bright line is a power up artifact of the camera and/or a reflection off one of the unfolded shiny metal shrouds on the lander. This composition is reminiscent of Surveyor, Viking, Venera, and other landers looking at or near their feet as one of their first images.



( no image - just flip the one above)
2) Possible - (flip the image to any of the two vertical orientations) Looking down again at the ground, possibly an out of focus scrape mark from the ship skidding/rolling or just the soil beneath the camera. We are looking down at less than 1 meter (?)


Attached Image

(3) Most Wishful - (bright horizontal line at top) Looking out at the horizon with a dark ridge in the foreground – notice the ‘rocks’ in and on the dark foreground ridge... Notice the large rock near the top right near the bright horizon. Notice the rock near the bottom right at the trailing edge of the dark ridge. Notice the rock(s) on the dark ridge near the left edge of the image. Notice the dusty atmosphere near the horizon (at top). We are looking outward from meters to the local horizon (a hundred meters?)


(4) Consensus since the 1970’s - This whole ‘image’ is just noise and my programs and your programs and you and I are just hallucinating, i.e. a Soviet Rorschach test.


Some other points to consider:
- Soviet experts (early 1970s) agreed that this image was just noise.
- The camera’s longer axis should be the vertical axis of the image – making interpretation 1, 2, and 3, scenes from a craft lying on its side.
- The landing was during a regional/global dust storm
- The available lighting was supposedly 50lux (low lighting)

I interpret the uniformly bright area in the image as the point where the vidicon camera was turned on. It then AGC’ed within a few lines to a normal gain-level. I suggest this because the noise pixels in the original (un-cropped) image just above this bright area (for ~10 lines before the bright area and parallel to the bright line across the image) are uniformly brighter by a few percent - compared to the noise pixels in all the lines before it; This statistically significant observation suggests the this may be the actual turn-on time of the vidicon; then we see the vidicon ‘blooming’ (i.e. all signal, no contrast, the white area); and then the gain control takes over….and we have a noisy image for ~60 more lines before the transmission stops. Alternatively, since this ‘brighter’ noise is spatially correlated to the bright line, it just may be a photographic artifact of the stupid screen-shot that we have been forced to deal with for the last 30+ years. I would really love to get a hold of the original Soviet data!

Final Conjecture:
Mars 3 landed but may have skidded or tipped over during the final approach. The usual suspects are rocks, rockets, chutes, winds, -etc. The damaged lander started its science sequence. The first image was in the process of beaming down to Earth. The orientation of the camera to the noisy image fragment suggests that the lander is not in the upright position. After 70 scan lines reach Earth, the signal is suddenly lost. What failed? Was it the transmitter, the electrical system, the final remnants of the propellant leaking from broken rocket nozzles onto panels and into the system electronics or maybe the battered lander just slouched and started rolling over again as a result of a precarious perch or the slumping soil and rock mechanics from the hard landing…

To the MRO Crew:
Please take some lucky MRO images of the Mars 3 landing site for Christmas!
Its easy…look in and near northern Ptolemy Crater , 45° S, 158° W; you should see a dusty old parachute and a nearby shiny Soviet lander lying on its side!
Thanks!! wink.gif


Parting Shot -- A False Color Image of the Wishful Horizon Interp:


Attached Image

Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 


--------------------
CLA CLL
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- tedstryk   Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)   Dec 29 2004, 10:36 PM
- - 4th rock from the sun   Just some data, to make things clearer: The Mars ...   May 3 2006, 03:14 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I thought that we could try to get the record stra...   May 10 2006, 04:42 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I have never heard 'Mars 8' used for that ...   May 10 2006, 04:59 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ May 10 2006, 12:59 P...   May 10 2006, 05:23 PM
|- - tedstryk   Mars '96 would have been Mars 8 if it hadn...   May 10 2006, 05:29 PM
- - Zvezdichko   36 years ago, on this very same day, 2 December 19...   Dec 2 2007, 11:58 AM
- - Adam   I might be wrong, but wasn't it pretty much de...   Dec 2 2007, 12:12 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yes. There have been speculations based on this im...   Dec 2 2007, 12:16 PM
- - nprev   A date & an achievement worth noting to be sur...   Dec 2 2007, 01:17 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yes, only 14 years after Sputnik mankind achieved ...   Dec 2 2007, 10:33 PM
|- - dilo   Perhaps a little bit OT, but not completely... Tod...   Dec 2 2007, 11:14 PM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 3 2007, 12:14 AM) Is in...   Dec 3 2007, 06:13 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (peter59 @ Dec 3 2007, 07:13 PM) EX...   Dec 4 2007, 04:28 PM
- - nprev   You're absolutely right, Dilo...we need to kee...   Dec 3 2007, 02:48 AM
- - Shaka   Good, that makes three dreamers at UMSF. How many ...   Dec 3 2007, 05:20 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (Shaka @ Dec 3 2007, 05:20 AM) Go...   Dec 4 2007, 04:48 PM
- - PDP8E   another more recent thread (36 years on mars) has ...   Dec 3 2007, 02:56 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 3 2007, 02:56 PM) anot...   Dec 3 2007, 05:22 PM
- - PhilCo126   Wait one minute, a topic on spacecraft lost around...   Dec 4 2007, 06:55 PM
- - PDP8E   MY SPECULATIVE ANALYSIS OF THE SOVIET MARS 3 LANDE...   Dec 12 2007, 06:57 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 12 2007, 07:57 PM) Som...   Dec 16 2007, 09:34 PM
- - Phil Stooke   "Its easy…look in and near northern Ptolemy C...   Dec 12 2007, 07:50 PM
- - djellison   So a 400km x 400km search box. 160,000 sqkm That...   Dec 12 2007, 08:02 PM
- - PDP8E   A brief scan of the web turned up these images of ...   Dec 14 2007, 03:51 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 14 2007, 04:51 PM) A b...   Dec 15 2007, 08:18 AM
- - PhilCo126   Thanks for sharing those photos and only the black...   Dec 15 2007, 05:54 PM
- - PDP8E   We have had 8 more inches of snow today on top of ...   Dec 16 2007, 08:36 PM
- - Geert   Various sources all seem to confirm that the camer...   Jun 6 2008, 07:56 AM
|- - tedstryk   Two or three minutes into the transmission, the fi...   Jun 6 2008, 01:50 PM
- - aconnell   Dear Tedstryk. I'd be really grateful if you c...   Jun 6 2008, 05:11 PM
|- - tedstryk   It was an image I clearly labeled a "what if...   Jun 6 2008, 05:46 PM
- - nprev   I don't know, Ted. They're undeniably fasc...   Jun 6 2008, 07:06 PM
|- - tedstryk   nprev, as I said in my description at the beginnin...   Jun 6 2008, 08:26 PM
- - Geert   On his excellent site on Soviet Space Cameras ( ht...   Jun 7 2008, 08:42 AM
- - aconnell   Many thanks Ted. I can remember as a teenager in t...   Jun 7 2008, 02:09 PM
|- - tedstryk   It is a shame they didn't start the transmissi...   Jun 7 2008, 02:26 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Conspiracy theorists are and will always be a lost...   Jun 7 2008, 02:39 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 02:39 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 03:02 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, MetNet is an elegant decision. However, I...   Jun 7 2008, 03:23 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 03:23 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 03:28 PM
|- - tedstryk   Oh, OK, in the sense of possible launch failure. ...   Jun 7 2008, 03:46 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I personally see Volna as an unreliable vehicle.   Jun 7 2008, 03:35 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, that's what I meant. Volna failed to lau...   Jun 7 2008, 03:49 PM
|- - tedstryk   My guess is that the little Chinese orbiter took i...   Jun 7 2008, 03:54 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I understand, but I also don't see how the des...   Jun 7 2008, 04:02 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 04:02 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 04:05 PM
- - Zvezdichko   You are probably right. The Chinese orbiter will b...   Jun 7 2008, 04:17 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 05:17 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 06:16 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, that's why the failure of Mars 96 was re...   Jun 7 2008, 06:41 PM
|- - tedstryk   I hope it makes it on there! By the way, here...   Jun 8 2008, 04:34 AM
- - Zvezdichko   Ted, I'm reading the upper link with a great i...   Jun 8 2008, 07:54 AM
|- - tedstryk   I don't think the Mars-6 flyby module took ima...   Jun 8 2008, 12:52 PM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 8 2008, 02:54 PM)...   Jun 9 2008, 05:12 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Geert @ Jun 9 2008, 06:12 AM) The ...   Jun 9 2008, 12:53 PM
- - Phil Stooke   A different story on Mars 2 and Mars 3. Where d...   Feb 5 2009, 12:14 AM
|- - tedstryk   According to Sasha Basilevsky, Hellas was chosen f...   Feb 5 2009, 12:39 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Yikes - Google Mars has Mars 2 at the stupid Wikip...   Feb 5 2009, 04:36 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 5 2009, 11:36 AM...   Feb 6 2009, 09:38 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Way off course by a few hundred km maybe, not half...   Feb 6 2009, 11:50 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 6 2009, 06:50 PM...   Feb 7 2009, 04:51 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Geert @ Feb 7 2009, 05:51 AM) It i...   Feb 7 2009, 01:47 PM
|- - DDAVIS   'The fact that the landingsites were chosen fr...   Feb 7 2009, 10:05 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Hi Don! You are thinking of Mars 6. The Mari...   Feb 7 2009, 11:16 PM
- - Phil Stooke   http://www.laspace.ru/rus/mars23.php Lavochkin we...   Feb 14 2009, 02:51 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 14 2009, 09:51 A...   Feb 14 2009, 05:26 AM
- - Geert   Forgot to mention that according to the above reas...   Feb 14 2009, 05:41 AM
- - nprev   Thank you for this very comprehensive and interest...   Feb 14 2009, 07:10 AM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 14 2009, 07:10 AM) I...   Feb 14 2009, 03:57 PM
- - Geert   Okay, one more remark and then I leave you in peac...   Feb 14 2009, 08:09 AM
|- - tedstryk   The altitude typically used today is 125 km for at...   Feb 14 2009, 02:56 PM
- - yurdel   please visit http://mars3.gornai.ru - my attempt o...   Apr 22 2009, 02:07 PM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 22 2009, 10:07 PM) pl...   Apr 22 2009, 02:48 PM
|- - tolis   Hi, Nice video! One search method that *migh...   Apr 22 2009, 09:03 PM
||- - Geert   QUOTE (tolis @ Apr 23 2009, 04:03 AM) One...   Apr 23 2009, 01:06 AM
|- - yurdel   QUOTE (Geert @ Apr 22 2009, 03:48 PM) Ver...   Apr 23 2009, 01:56 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 23 2009, 09:56 AM) I...   Apr 23 2009, 03:10 AM
|- - tedstryk   Amazing work!   Apr 23 2009, 09:43 AM
- - nprev   That was very cool, Yurdel; extremely interesting ...   Apr 23 2009, 02:06 AM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   Wow - this was and extremely interesting piece of ...   Apr 24 2009, 12:18 AM
|- - 4th rock from the sun   Very nice animation! A step by step illustrate...   Apr 24 2009, 09:11 AM
- - hendric   Yurdel, Very cool. Did you do this for a class?...   Apr 24 2009, 04:40 PM
|- - yurdel   QUOTE (hendric @ Apr 24 2009, 05:40 PM) Y...   Apr 25 2009, 02:27 AM
- - djellison   Very nice - I've always thought it would be fa...   Apr 24 2009, 04:50 PM
- - mhoward   Very nice! The vector animation somehow suits ...   Apr 24 2009, 05:12 PM
- - PDP8E   Happy MARS 3 Landing Anniversary (well, yesterday:...   Dec 3 2009, 10:06 PM
- - yurdel   The flashclip about Mars 3 has been added by music...   Dec 15 2009, 09:22 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Resurrecting an old thread... but it seems better ...   Apr 19 2011, 03:54 PM
|- - yurdel   My congratulations on forthcoming anniversary land...   Nov 29 2011, 11:06 PM
- - Paolo   a picture of a Mars-71 lander during impact tests   Mar 18 2013, 07:52 PM
- - volcanopele   Mars 3 hardware may have been spotted in some HiRI...   Apr 11 2013, 05:15 PM
- - remcook   Very nice "Philip J. Stooke from the Unive...   Apr 11 2013, 06:17 PM
- - TheAnt   I've read the text and found that they did the...   Apr 11 2013, 07:39 PM
|- - Zelenyikot   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 11 2013, 11:04 P...   Apr 12 2013, 06:57 AM
|- - TheAnt   QUOTE (Zelenyikot @ Apr 12 2013, 08:57 AM...   Apr 12 2013, 10:00 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I did offer some advice on this, though I had noth...   Apr 11 2013, 11:04 PM
- - Explorer1   It's the 2nd paragraph from bottom on this pag...   Apr 11 2013, 11:11 PM
- - J.J.   One similar feature would be easy to explain away;...   Apr 12 2013, 12:47 AM
3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 31st May 2024 - 03:53 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.