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Prehistoric meteor shower?
tty
post Dec 13 2007, 07:02 PM
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A real weird news story from Nature about meteor damage to pleistocene fossils:

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/071212/ful...s.2007.372.html

If traces of this meteor shower has been found in both Siberia and Alaska as the story implies, then multiple impactors must have been involved. Such small meterites would lose speed quickly so the airburst must have occurred at fairly low altitude.
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ngunn
post Dec 19 2007, 10:27 PM
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I really think we need Don Burt here, but I think he would say that the 'air' through which the particles were falling would also have been pretty hot, like the cloud from an explosive volcanic eruption. The animals would have suffered burns from that alone, and the spherules would have experienced less cooling (and less deceleration) than if they had been falling through ordinary cool air. The whole collapsing column of heated gas and solids would have been descending on them. I imagine them pinned to the ground and in considerable distress.
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dburt
post Dec 20 2007, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 19 2007, 03:27 PM) *
I really think we need Don Burt here, but I think he would say that the 'air' through which the particles were falling would also have been pretty hot, like the cloud from an explosive volcanic eruption. The animals would have suffered burns from that alone, and the spherules would have experienced less cooling (and less deceleration) than if they had been falling through ordinary cool air. The whole collapsing column of heated gas and solids would have been descending on them. I imagine them pinned to the ground and in considerable distress.

Well, this is the 3rd time my name has been mentioned here, and two people sent me personal messages, so I guess it's time to share my utter ignorance. smile.gif I wasn't at AGU and haven't even downloaded the poster, so I only know what I've read here and in the news story. First, other than having been caused by impact, these observations probably have little direct relation to the slightly Ni-enriched hematitic spherules observed on Mars, particularly at Meridiani (with some spherules also spotted at Gusev). From their uniform size and sphericity, and internal granularity, we presume that the Mars spherules could have formed by particle accretion in a condensing sticky, steamy surge cloud (i.e., that they are "accretionary lapilli" or a related species), with turbulence counteracting the force of gravity as they got larger. When the spherules hit the ground rolling and bouncing, they were probably travelling no faster than and were not much hotter than the turbulent particle-rich ground-hugging cloud as a whole. If you were a mammoth standing in the way, you probably would have been knocked over and possibly shredded and parbroiled, but the spherules probably wouldn't be embedded in your tusks, locally burning them, and you probably wouldn't survive.

The tiny embedded hot Fe,Ni metal particles discussed here seem to have been travelling somewhat faster than their medium, and a "blunderbuss" or shot-gun like effect has been suggested. That might not be too far off the mark, according to this second AGU-related story about a small directed blast for the 1908 Tunguska event which came out at the same time (and consistent with ngunn's hypothesis above):
http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/relea...7/asteroid.html

So in the Mars spherule case you are talking about possible depositional effects of a distant large crater-forming (ground-burst type) impact, and in the Alaska case possibly about a Tunguska-like small (air-burst type) impact high in the sky, one that might have produced a narrow blast directed downwards.

Just my uninformed suggestion. Thanks to the badastronomy.com website for the original link to that second story.

-- HDP Don
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Posts in this topic
- tty   Prehistoric meteor shower?   Dec 13 2007, 07:02 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   Yeah, I read this one the other day. Very peculiar...   Dec 14 2007, 04:00 AM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Dec 13 2007, 09:00 ...   Jan 10 2008, 10:20 PM
- - helvick   QUOTE The discovery of the 2–5 millimetre holes le...   Dec 14 2007, 08:55 AM
- - As old as Voyager   The idea that these animals were present and in th...   Dec 16 2007, 12:47 PM
|- - TheChemist   QUOTE (As old as Voyager @ Dec 16 2007, 02...   Dec 16 2007, 03:03 PM
- - helvick   Now that's a much more plausible explanation -...   Dec 16 2007, 02:51 PM
- - djellison   There are records of ancient people using meteorit...   Dec 16 2007, 03:03 PM
- - nprev   Weird story. The only other alternate explanation ...   Dec 16 2007, 06:34 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   Well, here's a thought. Let's assume for t...   Dec 17 2007, 01:05 AM
- - nprev   I've always wondered about this particular (ap...   Dec 17 2007, 02:42 AM
- - dvandorn   You know, any really energetic impact will create ...   Dec 17 2007, 06:35 AM
- - tty   More details here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci...   Dec 17 2007, 06:26 PM
- - nprev   Huh. That's pretty damn scary, really. What co...   Dec 17 2007, 09:35 PM
- - tty   Here is a link to the actual AGU poster: http://i...   Dec 17 2007, 11:42 PM
- - tasp   {sorry, did not pay to read entire article, if thi...   Dec 18 2007, 07:11 AM
- - nprev   Problem is that the metallic residue does match me...   Dec 18 2007, 03:23 PM
- - djellison   But surely a meteorite fragment that small would c...   Dec 18 2007, 03:30 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 18 2007, 07:30 AM)...   Dec 18 2007, 03:40 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 18 2007, 03:40 PM) ......   Dec 18 2007, 09:07 PM
|- - hendric   QUOTE (helvick @ Dec 18 2007, 03:07 PM) Y...   Dec 19 2007, 04:19 PM
- - tasp   OK, read some more on this, and will gladly back o...   Dec 18 2007, 03:33 PM
- - nprev   Yeah, I was thinking about what sort of model woul...   Dec 19 2007, 12:42 AM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 18 2007, 04:42 PM) Sti...   Dec 19 2007, 12:58 AM
|- - AndyG   QUOTE (lyford @ Dec 19 2007, 12:58 AM) Cr...   Dec 19 2007, 11:25 AM
- - nprev   At this point, I'd almost rate that just as li...   Dec 19 2007, 02:05 AM
- - ngunn   Can't help noticing the resemblance between th...   Dec 19 2007, 11:59 AM
- - algorimancer   I wonder whether this may have more to do with the...   Dec 19 2007, 02:45 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Dec 19 2007, 02:45 ...   Dec 19 2007, 03:34 PM
|- - algorimancer   QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 19 2007, 09:34 AM) May...   Dec 19 2007, 04:17 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 19 2007, 03:34 PM) May...   Dec 19 2007, 04:44 PM
- - djellison   Yeah - the maths of this makes the likelihood of a...   Dec 19 2007, 04:56 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 19 2007, 08:56 AM)...   Dec 19 2007, 06:38 PM
- - dvandorn   Sounds like we ought to move this discussion to th...   Dec 19 2007, 06:05 PM
- - ngunn   I really think we need Don Burt here, but I think ...   Dec 19 2007, 10:27 PM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 19 2007, 03:27 PM) I r...   Dec 20 2007, 11:03 PM
- - PDP8E   Fascinating mystery! Airburst? rocky meteors ...   Dec 20 2007, 03:13 AM
- - ngunn   Thank you for that, Don, very informative (and ver...   Dec 21 2007, 09:08 AM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 21 2007, 02:08 AM) Tha...   Dec 22 2007, 04:08 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (dburt @ Dec 22 2007, 04:08 AM) I t...   Dec 22 2007, 11:44 PM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 22 2007, 04:44 PM) ......   Dec 24 2007, 10:34 PM
- - nprev   Boy howdy... ...yeah, I'd call that "out...   Jan 10 2008, 10:54 PM
- - TheChemist   If I understood well, this refers mainly to a 12,9...   Jan 11 2008, 05:04 PM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (TheChemist @ Jan 11 2008, 10:04 AM...   Jan 12 2008, 05:25 AM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (TheChemist @ Jan 11 2008, 10:04 AM...   Jan 15 2008, 03:36 AM
- - nprev   Just adding this as a data input: seems that fragm...   Jan 12 2008, 08:18 PM
- - TheChemist   Thanks Don, I had a look at the AGU abstract, and ...   Jan 15 2008, 10:54 AM


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