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Mars Sample Return
Rakhir
post Apr 7 2006, 07:32 AM
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Next phase reached in definition of Mars Sample Return mission

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMJAGNFGLE_index_0.html
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John Whitehead
post Jan 15 2008, 11:52 PM
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Some 'current events' which indicate an increasing emphasis on MSR:

January 2008: This month's issue of Aerospace America has an article titled "Mars Exploration: Digging Deeper," by Leonard David, contributing writer. MSR is featured prominently. The argument is made that the Mars Program needs to keep doing new and exciting things to justify its 46% share of NASA's planetary budget. More orbiter and rover missions alone might not be enough to maintain excitement and political support. On the other side of that coin is a concern that MSR might displace ongoing Mars efforts to such a large degree that there would be a net detriment to the Mars Program and to Mars science. One interviewed science leader expressed the importance of having MSR become an ongoing program to encompass multiple missions, rather than one win-or-lose flagship mission.

Given all these concerns, a way must be found to make MSR affordable for multiple attempts within the current budget (just over a half billion US dollars per year). However, the article did not delve into the unique technology needs for MSR.

My own comments: Is there anything that affects the mission scale and cost more so than the need to deliver a launch vehicle and its ground support equipment to another planet? Is there a more direct path through the above dilemma than building a miniature launch vehicle (or at least finding out definitively how small one can be)?

February 20-21, 2008: The Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group (MEPAG) is meeting in Southern California. Sample return is on the agenda for this discussion among (mostly) geologists. See http://mepag.jpl.nasa.gov/meeting/feb-08/index.html

April 21-23, 2008: A science meeting in Albequerque is named "Ground Truth from Mars: Science Payoff from a Sample Return Mission." Sponsors include the Lunar and Planetary Institute and NASA. Discussion topics include Mars exploration strategy, sampling strategy, and specific topics in geology and astrobiology. See www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/msr2008/8

Also in the near future, NASA is planning a MSR Technology Workshop to discuss the following topics:
1. Rendezvous and Sample Capture (in Mars orbit).
2. Earth Entry Vehicle (the part that lands in Utah like Stardust did).
3. Returned Sample Handling Technologies on Earth.
4. Sample Acquisition, Sample Handling, and Encapsulation on Mars (packaging for shipment to Earth).
5. Forward Planetary Protection and Organic Contamination (how to not contaminate Mars with Earth life and related chemistry).
6. Entry, Descent, and Precision Landing (for Mars arrival, improved from prior Mars landers).
7. Back Planetary Protection (how to avoid any possibility that Mars life or molecules could harm life on Earth).
8. Mars Ascent Vehicle.
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tty
post Jan 16 2008, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Jan 16 2008, 12:52 AM) *
My own comments: Is there anything that affects the mission scale and cost more so than the need to deliver a launch vehicle and its ground support equipment to another planet? Is there a more direct path through the above dilemma than building a miniature launch vehicle (or at least finding out definitively how small one can be)?



As far as I can see there are three ways of acquiring martian samples without having to go all the way down into the gravity well and up again, and we have already been over them several times:

1. a Stardust type mission to collect dust from high in the Martian atmosphere

2. a sample return mission to Deimos or, preferably, Phobos. There is almost bound to be martian material there.

3. Go to Antarctica/Arabia etc and search for more martian meteorites (incidentally a project to go around the world's museums, particular the smaller ones, and see what they already have would very likely be successful - museum drawers are frequently the optimum locality to look for things)
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Posts in this topic
- Rakhir   Mars Sample Return   Apr 7 2006, 07:32 AM
- - hendric   What about using a coilgun to give the payload an ...   Nov 9 2007, 10:47 PM
- - tty   Even without the heat a take-off from Venus is alm...   Nov 14 2007, 11:13 PM
- - Cugel   International Group Plans Strategy For Mars Sample...   Dec 21 2007, 01:14 PM
- - nprev   Thanks, Cugel. I like the extensive internatio...   Dec 21 2007, 01:24 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 21 2007, 01:24 PM) I l...   Dec 22 2007, 05:02 PM
- - John Whitehead   Some 'current events' which indicate an in...   Jan 15 2008, 11:52 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Jan 16 2008, 12:5...   Jan 16 2008, 07:23 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Jan 16 2008, 07:41 PM
- - monitorlizard   Of course, nothing can compete with a well documen...   Jan 19 2008, 12:37 AM
- - edstrick   I think, maybe it was pointered to from here, that...   Jan 19 2008, 01:29 PM
- - dvandorn   Well, here's another thought -- instead of rel...   Feb 22 2008, 06:00 AM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 22 2008, 08:12 AM
- - dvandorn   Well -- in re rendezvous issues, my thoughts come ...   Feb 22 2008, 04:29 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 22 2008, 11:29 AM) ...   Feb 22 2008, 06:00 PM
- - edstrick   An essential ingredient in my utterly unofficial v...   Feb 23 2008, 11:04 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (edstrick @ Feb 23 2008, 11:04 AM) ...   Feb 23 2008, 03:59 PM
- - vjkane   The journal Science just published a lengthy artic...   Feb 29 2008, 01:56 AM
- - mchan   Thanks for the summary of the article, vjkane. Er...   Mar 1 2008, 06:44 AM
- - nprev   Thanks also for the excellent summary, VJ; much ap...   Mar 1 2008, 07:22 AM
- - Juramike   A really naive question: Could you do a remote mo...   Mar 29 2008, 03:00 PM
- - Greg Hullender   Controlled by someone on Earth or controlled by so...   Mar 29 2008, 05:46 PM
- - Juramike   Automated sequence. Program sequence uploaded fro...   Mar 29 2008, 05:59 PM
- - djellison   What would be the requirements ( size, mass etc ) ...   Mar 29 2008, 06:06 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 29 2008, 01:06 PM)...   Mar 29 2008, 08:21 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Mar 29 2008, 08:54 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 29 2008, 09:54 PM) ...   Mar 30 2008, 06:16 AM
- - imipak   Reading back through the thread, Climber posted a ...   Mar 29 2008, 06:55 PM
|- - Juramike   (Link to Part 2)   Mar 29 2008, 08:02 PM
- - mcaplinger   It seems to be a foregone conclusion among many th...   Mar 29 2008, 10:17 PM
|- - algorimancer   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 29 2008, 04:17 PM...   Mar 30 2008, 12:30 AM
||- - imipak   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Mar 30 2008, 12:30 ...   Mar 30 2008, 11:41 AM
|||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (imipak @ Mar 30 2008, 03:41 AM) I ...   Mar 30 2008, 04:54 PM
||- - JRehling   [...]   Mar 30 2008, 11:40 PM
||- - dvandorn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 30 2008, 06:40 PM) ...   Mar 31 2008, 01:42 AM
||- - algorimancer   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 30 2008, 06:40 PM) ...   Mar 31 2008, 12:57 PM
|- - Mark Adler   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 29 2008, 03:17 PM...   Apr 9 2008, 12:58 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Mark Adler @ Apr 8 2008, 05:58 PM)...   Apr 9 2008, 03:12 AM
||- - JRehling   [...]   Apr 10 2008, 06:43 AM
|||- - dburt   There's obviously a trade-off. The rover (mobi...   Apr 10 2008, 08:24 PM
|||- - vjkane   UNNECESSARY QUOTING REMOVED Don, excellent argum...   Apr 10 2008, 10:58 PM
|||- - dburt   QUOTE (vjkane @ Apr 10 2008, 03:58 PM) .....   Apr 11 2008, 03:50 AM
|||- - imipak   QUOTE (dburt @ Apr 11 2008, 03:50 AM) Whe...   Apr 11 2008, 05:44 PM
||- - Mark Adler   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Apr 8 2008, 07:12 PM)...   Apr 14 2008, 06:35 PM
||- - Stephen   QUOTE (Mark Adler @ Apr 15 2008, 04:35 AM...   Apr 15 2008, 08:21 AM
|||- - Mark Adler   QUOTE (Stephen @ Apr 15 2008, 12:21 AM) G...   Apr 16 2008, 05:43 AM
||- - Stephen   QUOTE (Mark Adler @ Apr 15 2008, 04:35 AM...   Apr 15 2008, 11:10 AM
||- - AndyG   QUOTE (Stephen @ Apr 15 2008, 12:10 PM) ....   Apr 15 2008, 01:31 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (Mark Adler @ Apr 9 2008, 10:58 AM)...   Apr 9 2008, 11:28 AM
- - SpaceListener   The project of MSR has one of the roots which is t...   Mar 30 2008, 12:58 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (SpaceListener @ Mar 29 2008, 04:58...   Mar 30 2008, 04:59 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 30 2008, 11:59 AM...   Mar 30 2008, 05:23 PM
- - nprev   Hmm. Lot of food for thought there, JR, as per you...   Mar 31 2008, 12:41 AM
- - vjkane   We unfortunately seem to be lacking a geochemist o...   Mar 31 2008, 02:50 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 31 2008, 07:50 AM) Th...   Mar 31 2008, 03:28 PM
- - edstrick   "...and I can't think of a single change ...   Apr 1 2008, 06:32 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 1 2008, 01:32 AM) I...   Apr 1 2008, 03:24 PM
|- - dburt   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 1 2008, 08:24 AM) ....   Apr 9 2008, 02:58 AM
- - edstrick   I'd like to see a spacecraft do 1.) Uranium/Le...   Apr 1 2008, 06:35 AM
- - djellison   That's one of the things that Squyres has ment...   Apr 1 2008, 07:39 AM
- - ElkGroveDan   Has anyone studied the costs and feasibility of pu...   Apr 9 2008, 04:13 AM
- - elakdawalla   I know that a case has been made that a human miss...   Apr 9 2008, 05:15 AM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Apr 9 2008, 01:15 PM...   Apr 14 2008, 03:23 PM
- - algorimancer   The more I contemplate the cost versus benefits, t...   Apr 9 2008, 05:23 PM
- - Drkskywxlt   Is having MSR a necessary prerequisite for manned ...   Apr 10 2008, 02:15 AM
- - nprev   At the risk of catching a lot of arrows, I think H...   Apr 14 2008, 06:47 PM
- - PDP8E   announcement for the date for their Mars SAR Missi...   Jul 10 2008, 11:34 PM
|- - John Whitehead   full inline quote removed - Admin Nice to see tha...   Jul 11 2008, 12:33 AM
- - djellison   That ESA animation has been doing the rounds for y...   Jul 11 2008, 06:18 AM
- - PDP8E   My favourite nonsense SAR image is this (lifted fr...   Jul 11 2008, 06:31 PM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Jul 11 2008, 02:31 PM) 6) ...   Jul 11 2008, 07:48 PM
- - Mariner9   I was also surprised by that 2018 date, but the mo...   Jul 11 2008, 09:34 PM
- - John Whitehead   Hi again, Re the past couple days of comments abov...   Jul 12 2008, 01:31 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Jul 12 2008, 02:3...   Jul 12 2008, 01:41 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 12 2008, 06:41 AM)...   Jul 12 2008, 02:00 PM
- - nprev   I believe somebody mentioned the idea of having an...   Jul 12 2008, 01:41 PM
- - John Whitehead   The ASAT missile weighed a ton, more than the land...   Jul 12 2008, 02:12 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Jul 12 2008, 03:1...   Jul 12 2008, 02:32 PM
||- - John Whitehead   QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 12 2008, 02:32 PM)...   Jul 13 2008, 05:16 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Jul 13 2008, 06:1...   Jul 13 2008, 06:47 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Jul 12 2008, 04:1...   Jul 12 2008, 04:47 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jul 12 2008, 08:47 AM) S...   Jul 12 2008, 11:29 PM
|- - ugordan   That's interesting. I was under the impression...   Jul 13 2008, 10:35 AM
|- - mcaplinger   Even if the Isps were 285 and 340, that's only...   Jul 13 2008, 03:15 PM
|- - ugordan   It's true that's only 20% in Isp differenc...   Jul 13 2008, 04:30 PM
- - nprev   Ironically, I'm not even sure that MAV is the ...   Jul 12 2008, 02:42 PM
- - nprev   Don't usually double-post, but just had a wild...   Jul 12 2008, 02:57 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (nprev @ Jul 12 2008, 07:57 AM) ......   Jul 12 2008, 03:43 PM
- - djellison   - 1.5 The manned vs unmanned debate will be never ...   Jul 12 2008, 07:46 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I have always wondered... What about two separate...   Jul 13 2008, 04:40 PM
- - dvandorn   In actuality, I truly don't think the issue is...   Jul 13 2008, 05:38 PM
- - John Whitehead   Yes of course, oDoug. If you define the problem a...   Jul 13 2008, 06:09 PM
- - Zvezdichko   John - what you suggest has been reviewed. There...   Jul 13 2008, 06:32 PM
- - dvandorn   I do understand your point, John. The problem wit...   Jul 13 2008, 06:45 PM
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