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After Victoria..., .. what next?
Stu
post May 28 2007, 02:07 PM
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I know we've had rather light-hearted discussions about this before, with most people agreeing that Oppy is likely to end her days inside or on the edge of Victoria Crater, simply because there's nothing else to investigate within reach, but has Steve S got it in his mind that Oppy will head off somewhere else after Victoria? This report could be read in a way that suggests that... huh.gif


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tanjent
post Feb 8 2008, 04:22 PM
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Isn't the best roving plan for Oppy the one that maximizes the expected scientific value of the remainder of the mission? If so, then that isn't necessarily the same as the plan that maximizes the rover lifetime, or the chances of getting back up.

Spirit, in the course of its mission, has several times wandered across the borderline between one geological province and another. The bottomlands had one story to tell and then the hills had a different story, and Eldorado and the home plate environs also offered some new and non-obvious insights as the payoff for horizontal trekking. (Horizontal here means along the surface, although of course there were hills involved.)

But Opportunity landed by design on a big plain way larger than its roving radius, and I am sure I recall quotes from Steve and the other panelists during the early press briefings in which the mission at Meridiani was described as a search for holes - craters, that is - punched in the flat landscape to allow access to earlier strata. As we consider pulling the rover out of the largest of these holes before getting a closer look at the strata at the foot of the capes, just ask what are the hoped-for gains from further horizontal exploration outside the crater. The two-year hike down from Endurance to Victoria was undertaken because it promised access to deeper, older strata that were not accessible elsewhere. One of the reasons the journey took two years was because a lot of scientific investigation was performed along the way, and the strata accessible on the surface and in the shallower, more eroded craters are already quite well known to the science teams on that basis. (If I am wrong please correct me. This could change the arithmetic - but it ought to be more than "I'd like to have another look at that cross-bedding in Erebus" because one is balancing a second-or-third look against a "first look" at as-yet unseen strata.)

"Big Crater" seems way too far off for any reasonable hope of getting there. That being the case, before leaving Victoria someone better informed to really needs to explain to me why the risk-adjusted scientific payoffs now seem more fruitful outside the crater than at or near the pedestals of one or two of the capes. It's not clear how close we can hope to get, or exactly the odds on losing a wheel, or some other technical breakdown and not being able to climb out. But the capes are not too different from one another, so one campaign of a couple months' duration would likely suffice. I believe Burns Cliff was investigated in the local winter season. If it means running the same risks that were run back at Burns cliff, then I can't see leaving it undone. It's what we came to do - to look at the lowest, oldest rocks.

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ustrax
post Feb 8 2008, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (tanjent @ Feb 8 2008, 04:22 PM) *
"Big Crater" seems way too far off for any reasonable hope of getting there. That being the case, before leaving Victoria someone better informed to really needs to explain to me why the risk-adjusted scientific payoffs now seem more fruitful outside the crater than at or near the pedestals of one or two of the capes.


Well, I'm not better informed but here's my take at it...

"As you set out for Ithaca
hope your road is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
angry Poseidon - don't be afraid of them:
you' ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body."


Get us out of the hole Steve!!!
This rovers were made for roving!!!
wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif
biggrin.gif


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"Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
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Posts in this topic
- Stu   After Victoria...   May 28 2007, 02:07 PM
- - ngunn   Am I missing something? Did we not come all this w...   Feb 5 2008, 02:03 PM
- - djellison   There's hopefully another few metres to go ...   Feb 5 2008, 02:32 PM
- - helvick   The only thing that can be reasonably expected for...   Feb 5 2008, 02:34 PM
|- - BrianL   QUOTE (helvick @ Feb 5 2008, 08:34 AM) Th...   Feb 5 2008, 07:29 PM
|- - alan   QUOTE (BrianL @ Feb 5 2008, 01:29 PM) Pos...   Feb 6 2008, 12:30 AM
- - fredk   Potential targets for after Victoria that have bee...   Feb 5 2008, 11:12 PM
|- - brellis   Would descending deeper into Victoria affect the a...   Feb 6 2008, 12:14 AM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (brellis @ Feb 5 2008, 02:14 PM) Wo...   Feb 6 2008, 04:55 AM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (brellis @ Feb 6 2008, 12:14 AM) Wo...   Feb 6 2008, 05:01 AM
- - Shaka   And, since your southerly tilt would decrease as y...   Feb 6 2008, 06:01 AM
- - SpaceListener   I think that the best return of investment for sci...   Feb 7 2008, 03:14 AM
- - Shaka   Listen, SL, I know where you're coming from. ...   Feb 7 2008, 05:22 AM
- - James Sorenson   I agree with Shaka that we must continue down the ...   Feb 7 2008, 09:31 AM
|- - PaulM   Two distinct topics seem to being discussed in thi...   Feb 7 2008, 06:12 PM
- - centsworth_II   There was once some talk of going back to Erebus. ...   Feb 7 2008, 06:43 PM
|- - brellis   The Getting to 'Big Crater' thread was an ...   Feb 7 2008, 07:12 PM
|- - tedstryk   If there is compelling science that is unfinished ...   Feb 7 2008, 09:59 PM
- - CosmicRocker   After having taken the risk of entering this crate...   Feb 8 2008, 06:24 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Feb 8 2008, 06:24 A...   Feb 8 2008, 08:45 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 8 2008, 03:45 AM) ...   Feb 8 2008, 04:44 PM
|- - ustrax   I just asked SS if they are really considering lea...   Feb 8 2008, 05:39 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (ustrax @ Feb 8 2008, 12:39 PM) ...   Feb 8 2008, 05:50 PM
- - tanjent   Isn't the best roving plan for Oppy the one th...   Feb 8 2008, 04:22 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (tanjent @ Feb 8 2008, 04:22 PM) ...   Feb 8 2008, 04:37 PM
- - ilbasso   My memory may be foggy (hey, I just became a grand...   Feb 8 2008, 09:10 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   I predict that they will be heading back to the sm...   Feb 9 2008, 12:52 AM
- - CosmicRocker   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 8 2008, 02:45 AM) ...   Feb 9 2008, 05:43 AM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Feb 9 2008, 05:43 A...   Feb 11 2008, 08:55 AM
- - Stu   I'm not sure if this has any relevence to the ...   Feb 11 2008, 12:00 PM
- - Floyd   I like your crater Stu. How far is it from Opportu...   Feb 11 2008, 04:44 PM
- - algorimancer   Ithaca (Big Crater), or die trying. One advantage...   Feb 11 2008, 10:07 PM
|- - BrianL   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Feb 11 2008, 04:07 ...   Feb 11 2008, 10:18 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (BrianL @ Feb 11 2008, 10:18 PM) Do...   Feb 11 2008, 11:10 PM
||- - ustrax   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 11 2008, 11:10 PM)...   Feb 12 2008, 10:20 AM
|- - climber   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Feb 11 2008, 11:07 ...   Feb 11 2008, 10:51 PM
- - Stu   I think it's pretty safe to say that I'm o...   Feb 12 2008, 12:14 AM
|- - djellison   Actually - that's a good point. 1183_0000 HRS...   Feb 12 2008, 12:44 AM
- - dvandorn   I'd just like to toss in the observation that ...   Feb 12 2008, 04:18 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 12 2008, 04:18 AM) ...   Feb 12 2008, 08:31 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 12 2008, 02:31 AM)...   Feb 12 2008, 04:44 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 12 2008, 04:44 PM) ...   Feb 12 2008, 04:56 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 12 2008, 10:56 AM)...   Feb 13 2008, 03:44 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 13 2008, 03:44 AM) ...   Feb 13 2008, 08:41 AM
- - djellison   It's from here : http://hrscview.fu-berlin.de/...   Feb 12 2008, 12:41 PM
|- - ustrax   Thanks Doug! And slinted...and algorimancer......   Feb 12 2008, 03:20 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (ustrax @ Feb 12 2008, 03:20 PM) .....   Feb 12 2008, 05:24 PM
|- - BrianL   Sorry Ustrax, even if Oppy made it to the near rim...   Feb 12 2008, 07:20 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (BrianL @ Feb 12 2008, 07:20 PM) we...   Feb 12 2008, 08:37 PM
- - Shaka   Let it be noted in the log of the starship Enterpr...   Feb 13 2008, 04:43 AM
- - hendric   oDoug, We just can't make any statistical in...   Feb 13 2008, 06:10 AM
- - nprev   Shaka, thanks for the vote of confidence, but Doug...   Feb 13 2008, 12:55 PM
- - dvandorn   Well... we're still in predictive territory, i...   Feb 13 2008, 04:16 PM
- - Stu   Okay, let's look at it from another angle. The...   Feb 13 2008, 05:19 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (Stu @ Feb 13 2008, 05:19 PM) with ...   Feb 13 2008, 05:55 PM
|- - Nirgal   QUOTE (ustrax @ Feb 13 2008, 06:55 PM) Bu...   Feb 13 2008, 06:50 PM
- - centsworth_II   I say when her mobile days are over, park her in t...   Feb 13 2008, 05:31 PM
- - fredk   I'd've thought there's probably plenty...   Feb 13 2008, 06:12 PM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (fredk @ Feb 13 2008, 06:12 PM) Stu...   Feb 13 2008, 06:16 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (fredk @ Feb 13 2008, 06:12 PM) Stu...   Feb 13 2008, 07:29 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (fredk @ Feb 13 2008, 12:12 PM) I...   Feb 14 2008, 04:27 AM
|- - AndyG   It may not be exciting, it may not be visionary, n...   Feb 14 2008, 10:55 AM
|- - ustrax   How could have I missed this post?... Thanks for...   Feb 14 2008, 02:49 PM
- - Stu   There's no glory in trying for something that...   Feb 13 2008, 06:12 PM
- - algorimancer   To address the "nothing to see, so why bother...   Feb 13 2008, 07:48 PM
- - djellison   Endurance to Victoria was a sprint. It had techni...   Feb 14 2008, 03:01 PM
|- - ustrax   Thanks for the reality check Doug. Now, for som...   Feb 14 2008, 03:15 PM
- - nprev   Sure looks fresh to me, Rui; nice find! Anybod...   Feb 14 2008, 03:43 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 14 2008, 03:43 PM) Sur...   Feb 14 2008, 03:50 PM
- - fredk   I sure did notice that "fresh" crater ou...   Feb 14 2008, 04:18 PM
- - nprev   15 klicks...argh, tantalizing. That's a LONG h...   Feb 14 2008, 05:29 PM
- - climber   I'm very surprised by your assesment, Stu : ...   Feb 14 2008, 06:14 PM
- - Stu   I'm really enjoying this debate, even tho I...   Feb 14 2008, 06:39 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (Stu @ Feb 14 2008, 08:39 AM) I...   Feb 14 2008, 10:33 PM
- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Stu @ Feb 14 2008, 01:39 PM) I...   Feb 14 2008, 07:09 PM
|- - stewjack   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Feb 14 2008, 02:09...   Feb 14 2008, 07:37 PM
|- - Sunspot   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Feb 14 2008, 07:09...   Feb 14 2008, 11:01 PM
- - Stu   Stuey?!?! I haven't been called that s...   Feb 14 2008, 11:11 PM
- - Stu   Here you go Shaka... ("Stuey"... shake...   Feb 14 2008, 11:59 PM
- - Shaka   God, what can Portugal offer to beat that?   Feb 15 2008, 02:00 AM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (Shaka @ Feb 15 2008, 02:00 AM) God...   Feb 15 2008, 09:46 AM
- - edstrick   I look at those "mountains" sticking up ...   Feb 15 2008, 08:18 AM
- - Aussie   Poet Laureats all, but perhaps a touch of realism ...   Feb 15 2008, 10:41 AM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (Aussie @ Feb 15 2008, 10:41 AM) Fo...   Feb 15 2008, 11:09 AM
|- - climber   QUOTE (Aussie @ Feb 15 2008, 11:41 AM) Fo...   Feb 15 2008, 05:42 PM
|- - ustrax   Just feeding the myth... Did you guys knew that on...   Feb 15 2008, 09:20 PM
- - djellison   The was an old rover called Oppy Who's Rat mec...   Feb 15 2008, 11:50 AM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 15 2008, 11:50 AM)...   Feb 15 2008, 03:00 PM
- - ngunn   I ask myself, if I were there in person would I re...   Feb 15 2008, 12:19 PM
- - djellison   This is something that both Jim Bell and I think, ...   Feb 15 2008, 11:24 PM
|- - brellis   Lovely words, ustrax. Whenever we do something gr...   Feb 16 2008, 12:32 AM
- - climber   Back in january 2004, when Spirit was not respondi...   Feb 16 2008, 12:37 AM
- - nprev   Before I say anything else, congrats to our esteem...   Feb 16 2008, 01:17 AM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 16 2008, 01:17 AM) and...   Feb 16 2008, 08:50 PM
- - centsworth_II   Just curious, is there anyone here that would have...   Feb 16 2008, 08:00 AM
|- - Bill Harris   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Feb 16 2008, 02:00...   Feb 16 2008, 12:04 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Feb 16 2008, 08:00...   Feb 16 2008, 06:10 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (fredk @ Feb 16 2008, 01:10 PM) I...   Feb 16 2008, 06:31 PM
- - Ipparchus   I`d like to propose a route for Oppy after Vic...   Feb 26 2008, 11:25 AM
|- - Doc   Intriguing Ipparchus. I infact had no idea that th...   Feb 26 2008, 02:46 PM
- - dvandorn   My thoughts exactly. In fact, I'm pretty sure...   Feb 26 2008, 04:25 PM
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