TEGA - Round 2 |
TEGA - Round 2 |
Jul 19 2008, 12:04 PM
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#201
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
I challenge you not to look at this and make a ping/spring/boing happy sort of a noise.
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/gallery/lg_14223.jpg |
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Sep 21 2008, 01:25 AM
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#202
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Member Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 17-July 07 From: Canberra Australia Member No.: 2865 |
I feel that solving the underlying cause of the sample 'stickiness' is just as important than getting a permafrost sample to the oven. The adhesive quality doesn't seem to be a function of ice as the sample from stone soup showed greater adhesion than the permafrost scrapings. With the lack of H2O from the probe results this seems to rule out H2O as a (major) contributing factor for the clumping.
Regardless, this is not an underperformance of the system. The screen is there to stop the introduction of large particles to the oven entrance where they could jam, so the clumping samples could not have got to the oven in any case. There is still the possibility that the sample will break down as the first one did and penetrate the screen in a few days time - so all is not yet lost. I'm not sure why trying to make a soil analogue is important. Unlike the rovers where they were trying to experiment with extraction techniques for the bogged vehicle Phoenix is on a very short timescale before the arm usage must be restricted or terminated. A mixture of non representative substances may make a reasonable analogue for the initial 'stickiness', but it would almost certainly not have the same breakdown characteristics over time - particularly when I don't believe we have a clue what is causing the adhesion in the first place. The answer is probably there in the TEGA and MECA results. |
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Sep 21 2008, 02:18 AM
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#203
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
I feel that solving the underlying cause of the sample 'stickiness' is just as important than getting a permafrost sample to the oven. The adhesive quality doesn't seem to be a function of ice as the sample from stone soup showed greater adhesion than the permafrost scrapings. I've walked through some kinds of mud and come away with clean soles -- the mud adheres to itself. Other kinds seems to suck the shoe off my foot. Is there a science that studies this? There certainly *could* be, but I don't know if anyone actually publishes on it. What would you even call it -- centigeology? This reminds me of lots of phenomena that take place with ice freezing that on Earth might be more the subjects poets and fishermen study rather than scientists. But on Mars, the equivalent phenomena take on engineering importance, and arguably scientific importance. But the D:H ratio is of fundamental importance. I'd say there are three things of utmost interest that Phoenix was looking for: 1) The dynamics and history of H2O at this latitude. 2) The possibility of organics in that ice. 3) The identity of the Viking oxidant. So far, we have apparent success at #3 and we may get good data on #2 out of the data we already have, but #1 probably cannot be done with the trace amounts found in the earlier sample. So the major objectives of this mission will have a very large hole at the top if something doesn't break our way soon, with at most about 15% of the active surface operations to go. |
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Sep 21 2008, 03:07 AM
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#204
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
I've seen people try to rate the success/failure of missions that were partial successes, and never saw any good come out of those discussions. Well you seem to have done a fairly good job of it yourself (see below). ...I'd say there are three things of utmost interest that Phoenix was looking for: 1) The dynamics and history of H2O at this latitude. 2) The possibility of organics in that ice. 3) The identity of the Viking oxidant. So far, we have apparent success at #3 and we may get good data on #2 out of the data we already have, but #1 probably cannot be done with the trace amounts found in the earlier sample. According to the Phoenix web site, "Phoenix is designed to study the history of water and habitability potential in the Martian arctic's ice-rich soil." I would say that "study the habitability potential" is the more interesting aspect of the mission to the public. This part of the mission seems to have been largely successful. Don't let your disappointment ruin a chance to share in the excitement. |
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