Update on Mars' atmosphere, Media briefing on NASA Jan 15th Options

[Stu]

Interesting...

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=27336

[djellison]

The story here, is that Astrobiology is off topic for UMSF. Rule 1.2. This is the first, last and only warning. In the post press-conf rush, I will not hesitate in hitting the delete button or issue suspensions.

[SirBruce]

The story here, is that Astrobiology is off topic for UMSF. Rule 1.2. This is the first, last and only warning. In the post press-conf rush, I will not hesitate in hitting the delete button or issue suspensions.

Wow, guess things have changed since I stopped reading UMSF months ago. I recall all sorts of discussion in the past. I guess there must have been some thread that got out of hand and you laid down some new rules. Too bad; I'm not much interested in a place that's going to completely ban astrobiology discussions just to keep a lid on UFOlogists and the like. Good luck to you, Doug.

[djellison]

I'm not much interested in a place that's going to completely ban astrobiology discussions just to keep a lid on UFOlogists and the like.

So be it. I am sure you, and anyone else who wants to discuss it can do so elsewhere. I will almost certainly join in the debate over at www.bautforum.com , for example.

I am not completely banning astrobiological discussions. I'm not saying that no one can discuss it. But the rules of UMSF dictate that you can't discuss it here. It's not what UMSF is for. Everyone is totally free to talk about them elsewhere - and I'll probably join you! Yes - this is a baby out with bathwater issue. Rather that, than descend into a bickering fringe-theory conspiracy infested argument about astrobiology and methane. The price to pay for keeping UMSF to the standards we do, is the exclusion of things that may risk damaging it.

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

I am not completely banning astrobiological discussions. I'm not saying that no one can discuss it. But the rules of UMSF dictate that you can't discuss it here.

That's a somewhat contradictory statement.

[djellison]

That's a somewhat contradictory statement.

It was written in a hurry. The point I'm making is that people can talk about anything they want. But they can't talk about biology, here. People object as if I'm banning them from discussing the subject. I'm not. I'm saying you can't talk about it HERE, in this forum, with these rules. It's not as if people can't go and talk about it somewhere else. Sorry if that was not clear.

There are things I want to talk about that, if I posted them here, I, in my admin role, would delete them, and then ban myself resulting in a catastrophic rip in the forum-time continuum. I know the rules for UMSF, so I stick firmly within them. If I want to discuss things that are outside the scope of UMSF (and regularly, I do) I visit BAUT usually.

[SirBruce]

I wasn't going to post again -- I've found most admins don't care to discuss their policies in-depth -- but given that this has dragged out a little bit, what the hell, I feel the need to add my two cents.

It was written in a hurry. The point I'm making is that people can talk about anything they want. But they can't talk about biology, here. People object as if I'm banning them from discussing the subject. I'm not. I'm saying you can't talk about it HERE. It's not as if people can't go and talk about it somewhere else. Sorry if that was not clear.

I think this is either a very weak defense, or simply muddying the waters, or is missing the point. Of course you mean you are banning them from discussing the subject HERE and not elsewhere. What, do some people think you're god? Do you have control over the entire Internet? Maybe you're getting at that you're an admin elsewhere. But in any case, people who are objecting are objecting because you're choosing to ban it HERE, and the fact that it's a valid topic elsewhere is more or less irrelevant to their (or at least, my) feelings and objections.

There are things I want to talk about that, if I posted them here, I, in my admin role, would delete them, and then ban myself resulting in a catastrophic rip in the forum-time continuum. I know the rules for UMSF, so I stick firmly within them. If I want to discuss things that are outside the scope of UMSF (and regularly, I do) I visit BAUT usually.

I can respect the desire of admins to create such rules in order to keep conversations from getting out of control, but in this case I think it's a misguided rule going way too far. A huge part of unmanned spaceflight science is astrobiological in nature. It seems bizarre to ban such discussion of that. I can't imagine trying to discuss measruements from Mars landers and rovers, or extrasolar planet observatories, all the while cautiously avoiding any mention of biological implications of those results. A whole chunk of the discussion of the nature of organics on Titan was related to their value in analyzing pre-biotic, if not ultimately biotic, chemistry. In this very thread, even after your previous warning, other people have already discussed biology. How can people even discuss the NASA press conference, without discussing the very questions and answers which were focused on biology at least 80% of the time? I presume if NASA someday *did* announce an unmanned probe discovered life on an extrasolar body, it would become a valid topic to discuss here? Seems kind-of silly that it can't be discussed until then.

But, as I said before, it was not my intention to come in here and cause a big ruckus about the rules. You can run your site as you want; I'm simply disappointed and my subsequent interest in posting here after years of lurking is substantially reduced.

[djellison]

I think it's a misguided rule going way too far.

As I've said elsewhere in similar discussions - accusations of baby out with bathwater are expected, and at least partially justified. But that's the price that I consider worth paying. Emilys posts explains it very very well.

No - I don't think I'm some internet god. But I fail to see why people go 'Wahahh - I want to talk about X'. What is stopping them doing that? Nothing. Find a place where it's allowed, and do it. I don't complain that I can't talk about manned spaceflight, or religion, or biology, or politics, or other off topic stuff. I stick to the rules and find somewhere else to talk about the issues I want to talk about that are not within the remit of UMSF.

UMSF is, intentionally, about a very very small subject area. S/N ratio is the currency of forums, and this one is, fortunately, quite high. I don't intend to risk it on subject matter that is, at its core, off topic. What is and isn't acceptable in a forum is more than just reading it's URL and assuming that's it.

Doug