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Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)
tedstryk
post Dec 29 2004, 10:36 PM
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On my website sometime back, I added a page on the image fragment sent back by the Mars-3 Lander. I released serveral versions, including the best quality processing using othodox techniques I would use on other images plus colorization here:
http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/fragmentc.jpg
However, I released another image, which I called a "What if" image. This image can be seen here http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/m3s5b.jpg It was produced via extreme processing of the original data to make a Mars-like scene, but I made it clear on my website it was only a speculative image. I strongly doubt if the raw data even shows Mars at all - it could be all noise. But since this mode of processing looked strangely Viking-like, I figured I would put it on the web. I was warned by several, who said that while fun, some kooks might take it seriously. My response was that I really don't care what kooks think. Then I noticed this web page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_2
They used the overprocessed image. I feel like it is being presented as a true photograph. This is of concern.


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Phil Stooke
post Feb 5 2009, 12:14 AM
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A different story on Mars 2 and Mars 3.

Where did they land and why were those places chosen? I was just plotting the locations on maps of image coverage from previous missions. Mars 2 crashed in Hellas, in the area imaged by Mariner 7. Mars 3 landed right on the southwest corner of Mariner 4 image 13, south of Newton crater. This suggests its target was actually inside the imaged area. The target latitude would be defined by EDL design and the seasons on Mars, and is about 45 south for both missions (incidentally, Wackypedia is waaay off with Mars 2... where did that come from?). It makes a lot of sense for the two mission targets to be in the only areas imaged at that time at that latitude. The site's geological context would be known. And Mariner 7 images seemed to show Hellas was a very smooth plain (actually it was looking at clouds inside the basin), so it would be safe.

So all that looks like it might make sense. But then this can potentially be used to resolve the discrepancy in longitudes between NSSDC and Astronautix.com site locations. Astronautix longitudes are ten degrees larger than NSSDC longitudes. But the Mars 3 site wouldn't be in the image area if the larger longitude value is used.

EDIT - next day - oops, I'm maligning Astronautix, the incorrect location actually came from http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4212/ch9.html (The NASA history volume on Viking). (Possibly the website used that value earlier and has edited it recently)

Any thoughts?

Phil


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... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

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Posts in this topic
- tedstryk   Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)   Dec 29 2004, 10:36 PM
- - Phil Stooke   tasp said "can any amount of processing put c...   Apr 19 2006, 08:12 PM
- - djellison   My take on it is - it might be a real picture, and...   Apr 19 2006, 08:41 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 19 2006, 08:41 PM)...   Apr 19 2006, 10:16 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Apr 19 2006, 10:16 PM) ...   Apr 20 2006, 01:52 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 20 2006, 01:52 A...   Apr 20 2006, 02:35 AM
- - ljk4-1   As I recall, the famous Mars 3 image was first sho...   Apr 20 2006, 12:22 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah, atmospheric conditions would have a lot to d...   Apr 20 2006, 05:05 AM
- - ljk4-1   This company (which I have no involvement with) is...   May 1 2006, 04:01 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ May 1 2006, 05:01 PM...   May 1 2006, 05:08 PM
|- - tedstryk   I have one, and am quite fond of it   May 1 2006, 08:28 PM
- - vikingmars   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Dec 30 2004, 12:36 AM) ...   May 2 2006, 08:37 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (vikingmars @ May 2 2006, 08:37 AM)...   May 2 2006, 09:32 AM
- - djellison   Might it be a vertically oriented image, but with ...   May 2 2006, 09:59 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ May 2 2006, 09:59 AM) ...   May 2 2006, 10:23 AM
|- - 4th rock from the sun   QUOTE (djellison @ May 2 2006, 10:59 AM) ...   May 2 2006, 01:44 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (4th rock from the sun @ May 2 2006, 03...   May 3 2006, 08:57 AM
- - 4th rock from the sun   Just some data, to make things clearer: The Mars ...   May 3 2006, 03:14 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I thought that we could try to get the record stra...   May 10 2006, 04:42 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I have never heard 'Mars 8' used for that ...   May 10 2006, 04:59 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ May 10 2006, 12:59 P...   May 10 2006, 05:23 PM
|- - tedstryk   Mars '96 would have been Mars 8 if it hadn...   May 10 2006, 05:29 PM
- - Zvezdichko   36 years ago, on this very same day, 2 December 19...   Dec 2 2007, 11:58 AM
- - Adam   I might be wrong, but wasn't it pretty much de...   Dec 2 2007, 12:12 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yes. There have been speculations based on this im...   Dec 2 2007, 12:16 PM
- - nprev   A date & an achievement worth noting to be sur...   Dec 2 2007, 01:17 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yes, only 14 years after Sputnik mankind achieved ...   Dec 2 2007, 10:33 PM
|- - dilo   Perhaps a little bit OT, but not completely... Tod...   Dec 2 2007, 11:14 PM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 3 2007, 12:14 AM) Is in...   Dec 3 2007, 06:13 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (peter59 @ Dec 3 2007, 07:13 PM) EX...   Dec 4 2007, 04:28 PM
- - nprev   You're absolutely right, Dilo...we need to kee...   Dec 3 2007, 02:48 AM
- - Shaka   Good, that makes three dreamers at UMSF. How many ...   Dec 3 2007, 05:20 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (Shaka @ Dec 3 2007, 05:20 AM) Go...   Dec 4 2007, 04:48 PM
- - PDP8E   another more recent thread (36 years on mars) has ...   Dec 3 2007, 02:56 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 3 2007, 02:56 PM) anot...   Dec 3 2007, 05:22 PM
- - PhilCo126   Wait one minute, a topic on spacecraft lost around...   Dec 4 2007, 06:55 PM
- - PDP8E   MY SPECULATIVE ANALYSIS OF THE SOVIET MARS 3 LANDE...   Dec 12 2007, 06:57 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 12 2007, 07:57 PM) Som...   Dec 16 2007, 09:34 PM
- - Phil Stooke   "Its easy…look in and near northern Ptolemy C...   Dec 12 2007, 07:50 PM
- - djellison   So a 400km x 400km search box. 160,000 sqkm That...   Dec 12 2007, 08:02 PM
- - PDP8E   A brief scan of the web turned up these images of ...   Dec 14 2007, 03:51 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 14 2007, 04:51 PM) A b...   Dec 15 2007, 08:18 AM
- - PhilCo126   Thanks for sharing those photos and only the black...   Dec 15 2007, 05:54 PM
- - PDP8E   We have had 8 more inches of snow today on top of ...   Dec 16 2007, 08:36 PM
- - Geert   Various sources all seem to confirm that the camer...   Jun 6 2008, 07:56 AM
|- - tedstryk   Two or three minutes into the transmission, the fi...   Jun 6 2008, 01:50 PM
- - aconnell   Dear Tedstryk. I'd be really grateful if you c...   Jun 6 2008, 05:11 PM
|- - tedstryk   It was an image I clearly labeled a "what if...   Jun 6 2008, 05:46 PM
- - nprev   I don't know, Ted. They're undeniably fasc...   Jun 6 2008, 07:06 PM
|- - tedstryk   nprev, as I said in my description at the beginnin...   Jun 6 2008, 08:26 PM
- - Geert   On his excellent site on Soviet Space Cameras ( ht...   Jun 7 2008, 08:42 AM
- - aconnell   Many thanks Ted. I can remember as a teenager in t...   Jun 7 2008, 02:09 PM
|- - tedstryk   It is a shame they didn't start the transmissi...   Jun 7 2008, 02:26 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Conspiracy theorists are and will always be a lost...   Jun 7 2008, 02:39 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 02:39 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 03:02 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, MetNet is an elegant decision. However, I...   Jun 7 2008, 03:23 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 03:23 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 03:28 PM
|- - tedstryk   Oh, OK, in the sense of possible launch failure. ...   Jun 7 2008, 03:46 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I personally see Volna as an unreliable vehicle.   Jun 7 2008, 03:35 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, that's what I meant. Volna failed to lau...   Jun 7 2008, 03:49 PM
|- - tedstryk   My guess is that the little Chinese orbiter took i...   Jun 7 2008, 03:54 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I understand, but I also don't see how the des...   Jun 7 2008, 04:02 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 04:02 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 04:05 PM
- - Zvezdichko   You are probably right. The Chinese orbiter will b...   Jun 7 2008, 04:17 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 05:17 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 06:16 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, that's why the failure of Mars 96 was re...   Jun 7 2008, 06:41 PM
|- - tedstryk   I hope it makes it on there! By the way, here...   Jun 8 2008, 04:34 AM
- - Zvezdichko   Ted, I'm reading the upper link with a great i...   Jun 8 2008, 07:54 AM
|- - tedstryk   I don't think the Mars-6 flyby module took ima...   Jun 8 2008, 12:52 PM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 8 2008, 02:54 PM)...   Jun 9 2008, 05:12 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Geert @ Jun 9 2008, 06:12 AM) The ...   Jun 9 2008, 12:53 PM
- - Phil Stooke   A different story on Mars 2 and Mars 3. Where d...   Feb 5 2009, 12:14 AM
|- - tedstryk   According to Sasha Basilevsky, Hellas was chosen f...   Feb 5 2009, 12:39 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Yikes - Google Mars has Mars 2 at the stupid Wikip...   Feb 5 2009, 04:36 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 5 2009, 11:36 AM...   Feb 6 2009, 09:38 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Way off course by a few hundred km maybe, not half...   Feb 6 2009, 11:50 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 6 2009, 06:50 PM...   Feb 7 2009, 04:51 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Geert @ Feb 7 2009, 05:51 AM) It i...   Feb 7 2009, 01:47 PM
|- - DDAVIS   'The fact that the landingsites were chosen fr...   Feb 7 2009, 10:05 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Hi Don! You are thinking of Mars 6. The Mari...   Feb 7 2009, 11:16 PM
- - Phil Stooke   http://www.laspace.ru/rus/mars23.php Lavochkin we...   Feb 14 2009, 02:51 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 14 2009, 09:51 A...   Feb 14 2009, 05:26 AM
- - Geert   Forgot to mention that according to the above reas...   Feb 14 2009, 05:41 AM
- - nprev   Thank you for this very comprehensive and interest...   Feb 14 2009, 07:10 AM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 14 2009, 07:10 AM) I...   Feb 14 2009, 03:57 PM
- - Geert   Okay, one more remark and then I leave you in peac...   Feb 14 2009, 08:09 AM
|- - tedstryk   The altitude typically used today is 125 km for at...   Feb 14 2009, 02:56 PM
- - yurdel   please visit http://mars3.gornai.ru - my attempt o...   Apr 22 2009, 02:07 PM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 22 2009, 10:07 PM) pl...   Apr 22 2009, 02:48 PM
|- - tolis   Hi, Nice video! One search method that *migh...   Apr 22 2009, 09:03 PM
||- - Geert   QUOTE (tolis @ Apr 23 2009, 04:03 AM) One...   Apr 23 2009, 01:06 AM
|- - yurdel   QUOTE (Geert @ Apr 22 2009, 03:48 PM) Ver...   Apr 23 2009, 01:56 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 23 2009, 09:56 AM) I...   Apr 23 2009, 03:10 AM
|- - tedstryk   Amazing work!   Apr 23 2009, 09:43 AM
- - nprev   That was very cool, Yurdel; extremely interesting ...   Apr 23 2009, 02:06 AM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   Wow - this was and extremely interesting piece of ...   Apr 24 2009, 12:18 AM
|- - 4th rock from the sun   Very nice animation! A step by step illustrate...   Apr 24 2009, 09:11 AM
- - hendric   Yurdel, Very cool. Did you do this for a class?...   Apr 24 2009, 04:40 PM
- - djellison   Very nice - I've always thought it would be fa...   Apr 24 2009, 04:50 PM
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