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OPAG Reports, Formal proposals/evaluations of future outer SS missions
JRehling
post Nov 9 2007, 08:28 PM
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http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/announcements.html

That's one little URL with a lifetime's worth of reading material.

Three detailed studies are available in PDF format. The missing body is Titan, which will be the subject of a forthcoming report.

The three focus missions are:
Europa Explorer: Fairly detailed description of a mission that is pretty much what Europa Orbiter would have been.

Jupiter System Observer: Basically, Galileo 2 (without the antenna mishap!). The craft would start with a 3-year tour of all the Galileans, then spend 1 year in an elliptical Ganymede orbit, then the rest of the mission in a tight, polar Ganymede orbit (like MGS at Mars). That would map the heck out of Ganymede, but also be close enough to the rest of the system to make long-range observations for years. Note that Ganymede would thereby provide a lot of radiation shielding.

Enceladus: where three profiles are examined in depth: Enceladus Orbiter only; Enceladus Orbiter with soft lander; Saturn orbiter with Enceladus soft lander.

There's more to chew on here than I have had (or may ever have) time for, but I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

Seems like a Europa-only mission would only benefit from coming after a JSO. EE would explore Europa much better than JSO would; why even have JSO observations at Europa if EE came first? In many ways, these two missions are competitive. EE would have the big payoff, but JSO seems like basic recon that would prime EE, especially giving specs on radar performance. But if we waited til JSO was 4 years into its mission before completing design of EE, then put EE sometime mid-century.

If an Enceladus mission included a Saturn orbiter, then maybe the same orbiter could provide data relay for separate Titan elements. However, a lot of the Enceladus science goals would require an Enceladus orbiter, so I don't think a Saturn orbiter for Enceladus/Titan will win out.

Note that Enceladus orbital velocity is low enough that the craft could manage to take lots of hits from ice pellets and survive. Put a bulletproof vest on the craft and let it soar through the plumes endlessly.
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Roly
post Feb 13 2009, 11:49 AM
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The reports are both very exciting, from what I've been able to get through so far. I've read the rationale as to why there is no landed element with the JEO, and it is very logical, sensible, and well-argued. But nevertheless, in an irrational way, I do wish there had been some way of attempting it this time; the 300-350kg soft landers studied, admittedly only in a preliminary way, for the ESSP and Icy Moons Lander were exciting (more so than the JGO element, though I know it will do great science - hard to squeeze in to a 300kg lander). And my impression was that Huygens didn't have the benefit of a well understood surface during its design - though then again, it did have a very helpful atmosphere, and landing wasn't the primary goal from memory. Very pleased to see that deletion of the NAC is such a long way down the descope list, given that the absence of metre-scale imaging seems to be one of the reasons why a lander is out of the question for now.

Discussion of the choice of MMRTG c.f. ASRG was also intriguing, and one of the areas where I thought the JEO was really advancing its case as the safer choice. Equally, its readiness to launch at the earlier October 2018 opportunity was put forward with some confidence.

Very much looking forward to hearing the results, I'd love Europa to get up this time, but Titan would hardly be a disappointment,

Roly
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vjkane
post Feb 13 2009, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Roly @ Feb 13 2009, 11:49 AM) *
I've read the rationale as to why there is no landed element with the JEO, and it is very logical, sensible, and well-argued. But nevertheless, in an irrational way, I do wish there had been some way of attempting it this time...

A Europa lander isn't out of the question if supplied by an international partner. There is a Russian conference on the topic (in support of a possible Russian-supplied lander) that ended today: http://www.iki.rssi.ru/conf/2009elw/

One thing to remember is that these reports do not represent the final architecture of the missions. The missions will not launch for another 8-10 years, more than twice the normal development time for a mission. There will be refinements and improvements -- and possibly major changes. I know that there are those within the Titan camp, for example, who really want to see the in situ probes launched separately so that the orbiter is already in place at Titan before they arrive.

In any case, we should know today or within a few days the decision -- if the decision isn't kicked to the scientific advisory boards (which has been stated as an option if there isn't a technical or budgetary reason to pick one over the other and it comes down to a purely scientific selection).


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EccentricAnomaly
post Feb 14 2009, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (vjkane @ Feb 13 2009, 08:49 AM) *
A Europa lander isn't out of the question if supplied by an international partner. There is a Russian conference on the topic (in support of a possible Russian-supplied lander) that ended today: http://www.iki.rssi.ru/conf/2009elw/


Problem is that a lander would probably need a radioisotope power supply (RPS), and a Russian built RPS couldn't be sent on a US launcher without a very expensive process to get the Russian RPS certified (which it might not pass). So the Russians would have to go it alone with their own rocket and cruise stage to get to Europa... but that would involve them building (and paying for) something more complex and expensive than JEO (because they'd have to do all of the DV of JEO plus 1.5 km/s more to land).

Maybe they could do a solar powered lander... but those would have to be mighty big arrays, that would have to be rad hard... and would have to survive the g-loads of the descent and landing.

This has me thinking that a Russian supplied lander is not credible. If there is to be a lander, the US will have to build it and pay for it with maybe the Russians contributing part of it. And in that case, I think the money the US would spend on a lander would be better spent on a small Titan mission (maybe just a balloon or just a lander).
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vjkane
post Feb 14 2009, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE (EccentricAnomaly @ Feb 14 2009, 04:09 AM) *
Problem is that a lander would probably need a radioisotope power supply (RPS), and a Russian built RPS couldn't be sent on a US launcher without a very expensive process to get the Russian RPS certified (which it might not pass).

My guess is that the lander is battery powered, but I don't know.

I do vaguely remember that the Russians might be thinking of launching their own carrier craft to take the lander to Europa. They certainly have the launch capability. The only technology I don't know about is radiation hardened electronics.

I'm hoping that the presentations from the conference will be posted.


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Posts in this topic
- JRehling   OPAG Reports   Nov 9 2007, 08:28 PM
- - djellison   A comparatively simple orbiter doesn't make mu...   Mar 24 2008, 06:30 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 24 2008, 06:30 PM)...   Mar 24 2008, 06:51 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 24 2008, 06:51 PM) An...   Mar 24 2008, 06:53 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 24 2008, 06:53 PM)...   Mar 24 2008, 07:14 PM
- - Mariner9   It is tough to know just what 700 million Euros wi...   Mar 24 2008, 09:43 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Mar 24 2008, 09:43 PM) ...   Mar 24 2008, 10:26 PM
- - mps   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 25 2008, 12:26 AM) In...   Mar 25 2008, 11:25 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (mps @ Mar 25 2008, 12:25 PM) I thi...   Mar 25 2008, 11:40 AM
|- - Mariner9   QUOTE (ugordan @ Mar 25 2008, 04:40 AM) T...   Mar 25 2008, 08:55 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (ugordan @ Mar 25 2008, 11:40 AM) ....   Mar 26 2008, 12:25 AM
|- - SFJCody   Very interesting episode of the Sky at Night this ...   Jun 3 2008, 08:41 PM
- - jasedm   I'd like to register my agreement also - why t...   Mar 25 2008, 08:55 PM
- - jasedm   Good arguments.   Mar 25 2008, 08:59 PM
- - djellison   There's a science update tomorrow at 6pm UT - ...   Mar 25 2008, 09:37 PM
- - vjkane   The presentations from the outer planet flagship i...   Jun 15 2008, 03:38 AM
- - Mariner9   I was struck by the 10 year travel time for the Ti...   Jun 15 2008, 04:18 PM
- - ngunn   I am DELIGHTED to see in the latest Titan proposal...   Jun 16 2008, 11:19 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jun 16 2008, 12:19 PM) I a...   Jun 16 2008, 05:47 PM
||- - ngunn   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 16 2008, 06:47 PM) Ha...   Jun 16 2008, 06:14 PM
|- - just-nick   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jun 16 2008, 03:19 AM) I a...   Jun 18 2008, 04:02 AM
- - volcanopele   it is a relatively new idea (or at least a reborn ...   Jun 18 2008, 04:34 AM
- - ngunn   Let's not forget that ESA has already landed a...   Jun 18 2008, 08:14 AM
- - gpurcell   "Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter - Ambitious" ...   Jun 18 2008, 02:28 PM
- - vjkane   An additional presentation from the Flagship instr...   Jun 20 2008, 05:41 PM
|- - gpurcell   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 20 2008, 06:41 PM) Fi...   Jun 20 2008, 09:34 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 20 2008, 01:41 PM) Th...   Jun 21 2008, 10:21 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Jun 21 2008, 10:21 PM) E...   Jun 21 2008, 11:39 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 21 2008, 07:39 PM) Ca...   Jun 23 2008, 02:13 AM
- - ngunn   I don't believe that the situation is thus. We...   Jun 20 2008, 09:43 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jun 20 2008, 09:43 PM) I d...   Jun 21 2008, 12:05 AM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 20 2008, 08:05 PM) Th...   Jun 21 2008, 12:34 AM
- - vjkane   Breaking news is that budget shortfalls will likel...   Jun 27 2008, 07:09 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 27 2008, 07:09 PM) Br...   Jun 27 2008, 07:57 PM
|- - JRehling   I think the effect (and possibly the intended effe...   Jun 28 2008, 09:50 PM
- - Mariner9   I think you are right, the longer they have to de...   Jun 27 2008, 09:48 PM
- - mps   QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Jun 28 2008, 12:48 AM) ...   Jun 28 2008, 11:30 AM
- - Mariner9   I agree that a 2.1 billion dollar mission runs the...   Jun 28 2008, 05:39 PM
- - mps   Good point about Europa Explorer and JIMO analogy....   Jun 28 2008, 06:06 PM
- - Mariner9   My recollection for Cassini was that it was over b...   Jun 28 2008, 07:24 PM
- - vjkane   The presentations from the planetary science subco...   Jun 28 2008, 08:29 PM
|- - ugordan   2020? That's depressing.   Jun 28 2008, 08:51 PM
- - vjkane   I had the time to finish reading the rest of the p...   Jun 29 2008, 01:12 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 29 2008, 01:12 AM) Th...   Jun 29 2008, 03:20 PM
- - vjkane   Various news reports (e.g., http://www.spacepoliti...   Aug 15 2008, 03:56 PM
- - vjkane   An August update on the two possible outer planet ...   Sep 2 2008, 04:04 PM
|- - Greg Hullender   Did you notice that Ares V was an allowed launch v...   Sep 3 2008, 04:16 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (vjkane @ Sep 2 2008, 05:04 PM) I...   Sep 4 2008, 09:46 AM
|- - centsworth_II   Titan will yield guaranteed exciting results of al...   Sep 4 2008, 01:42 PM
- - vjkane   Both missions -- Jovian moons and Titan -- are so ...   Sep 4 2008, 02:33 PM
- - Mark6   This is a bit unexpected (to me, anyway): http://...   Jan 24 2009, 03:17 AM
- - volcanopele   These are the same missions that have been discuss...   Jan 24 2009, 06:05 AM
- - Decepticon   How does this fit in the OPAG Reports thread? - Mo...   Jan 24 2009, 06:47 AM
- - volcanopele   So would I, but if the sample trajectories are any...   Jan 24 2009, 09:33 PM
- - NMRguy   From the picture provided by ESA/NASA for the BBC ...   Jan 26 2009, 10:35 PM
- - lyford   Joint summary reports posted Jan 19: http://opfm....   Jan 27 2009, 03:44 AM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (lyford @ Jan 27 2009, 03:44 AM) Jo...   Jan 27 2009, 09:06 PM
|- - sci44   QUOTE (lyford @ Jan 27 2009, 03:44 AM) Jo...   Jan 27 2009, 10:56 PM
|- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (sci44 @ Jan 27 2009, 02:56 PM) I w...   Jan 29 2009, 05:24 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (EccentricAnomaly @ Jan 29 2009, 12...   Jan 29 2009, 06:16 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Juramike @ Jan 29 2009, 06:16 PM) ...   Jan 29 2009, 08:49 PM
- - Floyd   At least there is a good chance you will still be ...   Jan 27 2009, 10:13 PM
- - Juramike   I like it: "One, if by sea, two, if by air, ...   Jan 27 2009, 10:53 PM
- - AscendingNode   The OPFM reports are now up at: http://opfm.jpl.n...   Feb 13 2009, 06:30 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (AscendingNode @ Feb 13 2009, 06:30...   Feb 13 2009, 12:35 PM
- - Roly   The reports are both very exciting, from what I...   Feb 13 2009, 11:49 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Roly @ Feb 13 2009, 11:49 AM) I...   Feb 13 2009, 04:49 PM
|- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (vjkane @ Feb 13 2009, 08:49 AM) A ...   Feb 14 2009, 03:09 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (EccentricAnomaly @ Feb 14 2009, 04...   Feb 14 2009, 06:27 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (vjkane @ Feb 14 2009, 01:27 AM) My...   Feb 15 2009, 04:35 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Feb 15 2009, 03:35 PM) I...   Feb 19 2009, 05:52 AM
|- - K-P   QUOTE (Stephen @ Feb 19 2009, 07:52 AM) (...   Feb 19 2009, 09:26 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (K-P @ Feb 19 2009, 08:26 PM) ...   Feb 23 2009, 02:22 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Stephen @ Feb 23 2009, 02:22 AM) A...   Feb 23 2009, 02:36 AM
- - elakdawalla   ...spoken by one of the youngest members of this f...   Feb 13 2009, 01:43 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Feb 13 2009, 01:43 P...   Feb 13 2009, 02:14 PM
- - dvandorn   I may not have my flying car, and I can't book...   Feb 13 2009, 02:26 PM
- - belleraphon1   Yeah... being a Sputnik baby means whichever outer...   Feb 13 2009, 02:38 PM
- - djellison   New Horizons will fill the gap a little bit   Feb 13 2009, 03:46 PM
|- - belleraphon1   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 13 2009, 10:46 AM)...   Feb 13 2009, 04:14 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 13 2009, 09:46 AM)...   Feb 13 2009, 05:54 PM
||- - tedstryk   In terms of filling the gap, there may not be a ho...   Feb 13 2009, 08:56 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 13 2009, 03:46 PM)...   Feb 15 2009, 01:19 PM
- - scalbers   And plugging the gap further we could mention Dawn...   Feb 13 2009, 09:03 PM
- - imipak   It was quite disappointing to me as a child when I...   Feb 13 2009, 09:12 PM
|- - Vultur   QUOTE (imipak @ Feb 13 2009, 10:12 PM) It...   Feb 15 2009, 04:32 PM
- - Mariner9   I also am saddened by the ever widening gab betwee...   Feb 13 2009, 10:40 PM
|- - ngunn   Mariner9 you have voiced my thoughts precisely the...   Feb 13 2009, 10:55 PM
- - Roly   The studies I've seen, e.g. that from Tibor Ba...   Feb 14 2009, 07:28 AM
|- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (Roly @ Feb 13 2009, 11:28 PM) The ...   Feb 14 2009, 04:51 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Feb 17 2009, 06:00 A...   Feb 19 2009, 06:11 AM
- - volcanopele   On my blog, I've taken a further look at the I...   Feb 14 2009, 07:48 AM
- - vjkane   Ralph, thanks for the details on the Russian Europ...   Feb 15 2009, 05:23 AM
- - volcanopele   I'm surprised people haven't also been dis...   Feb 16 2009, 12:33 AM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Feb 15 2009, 07:33 P...   Feb 16 2009, 02:07 AM
- - vjkane   I have two recent posts on TSSM on my blog: Flyby...   Feb 16 2009, 05:56 AM
- - Decepticon   No radar being done?   Feb 16 2009, 04:47 PM
|- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Feb 16 2009, 08:47 AM...   Feb 18 2009, 03:07 PM
- - volcanopele   In another sign of the pending apocalypse, I wrote...   Feb 16 2009, 07:00 PM
- - nprev   Well, now I gotta stock up on canned goods & b...   Feb 16 2009, 07:29 PM
- - Fran Ontanaya   And Rosetta. BepiColombo has to be designed for ...   Feb 20 2009, 03:04 PM
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