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Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)
tedstryk
post Dec 29 2004, 10:36 PM
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On my website sometime back, I added a page on the image fragment sent back by the Mars-3 Lander. I released serveral versions, including the best quality processing using othodox techniques I would use on other images plus colorization here:
http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/fragmentc.jpg
However, I released another image, which I called a "What if" image. This image can be seen here http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/m3s5b.jpg It was produced via extreme processing of the original data to make a Mars-like scene, but I made it clear on my website it was only a speculative image. I strongly doubt if the raw data even shows Mars at all - it could be all noise. But since this mode of processing looked strangely Viking-like, I figured I would put it on the web. I was warned by several, who said that while fun, some kooks might take it seriously. My response was that I really don't care what kooks think. Then I noticed this web page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_2
They used the overprocessed image. I feel like it is being presented as a true photograph. This is of concern.


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yurdel
post Apr 22 2009, 02:07 PM
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please visit http://mars3.gornai.ru - my attempt of animation Mars-3 mission(in russian) rolleyes.gif
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Geert
post Apr 22 2009, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 22 2009, 10:07 PM) *
please visit http://mars3.oktemlyceum.ru - my attempt of animation Mars-3 mission(in russian) rolleyes.gif


Very good and as far as I can judge technically correct animation!

You quite often see the mistake that the solid fuel engine on the lander was used for a braking manouevre, which is incorrect, it fired perpendicular to the flight path and thus only decreased the passing distance (from 1500 km to almost zero), you show it correctly in your animation.

Only remark is that you show the parachute separating on firing of the soft landing engines, the way I read the booklet of Perminov ('The difficult road to Mars') and especially the drawing on page 47 it seems to me like the parachute remained attached to the softlandingrocket and the instrument shell (similar to what was done with Pathfinder and MER), after the lander is released the softlandingrocket is shown more or less shooting into the parachute and taking the whole thing away from the lander.

I have been searching through the HiRISE images a lot in the vague hope of finding any sign of Mars 3 or Mars 6 but it's seeking for a needle in a haystack, there are lots of 'suspicious stones' but nothing which really shows hopeful. It's such a big, big, area, I'm afraid we will have to wait until somebody accidentally stumbles over the thing in a hundred years or more, and hopefully you're animation is then still around to show them what they've found! smile.gif
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yurdel
post Apr 23 2009, 01:56 AM
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QUOTE (Geert @ Apr 22 2009, 03:48 PM) *
Very good and as far as I can judge technically correct animation!
...
Only remark is that you show the parachute separating on firing of the soft landing engines, the way I read the booklet of Perminov ('The difficult road to Mars') and especially the drawing on page 47 it seems to me like the parachute remained attached to the softlandingrocket and the instrument shell (similar to what was done with Pathfinder and MER), after the lander is released the softlandingrocket is shown more or less shooting into the parachute and taking the whole thing away from the lander.
...


Thanks!

I'm animate this picture -
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Geert
post Apr 23 2009, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 23 2009, 09:56 AM) *
I'm animate this picture -


The booklet of Perminov you can download here

The drawing you animate is on page 50 of the pdf, the picture I am referring to is on page 51. There is indeed a difference in how the parachute is released. On page 49 of the book the description is:

QUOTE
Depending on the descent velocity, in an altitude range of 16 to 30 meters, the high-altitude radar-altimeter issues a command; the onboard radio system is disconnected, the engine that controls the soft landing is started, and a second PVM program is initiated. When the landers vertical speed of descent drops to 6.5 meters per second, the low-altitude radar-altimeter issues a command to break the metallic ribbons that attach the parachute-instrument module to the automatic Martian station. Simultaneously, the engine that controls the maneuvering of the parachute container is started.


This seems to indicate the parachute remained attached to the parachute container while the soft landing engine was firing (as shown in page 51 drawing), but I agree that the 2 drawings differ in this, I'm afraid only way to make sure is find one of the original technicians and ask...

I'm also interested in what was the color of the parachute, some of the artwork seems to suggest it was red-white which is a pity given the red colored landscape on Mars, they should make parachutes for Mars landers bright green or something...
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tedstryk
post Apr 23 2009, 09:43 AM
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Amazing work!


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Posts in this topic
- tedstryk   Mars 3 (Various Topics Merged)   Dec 29 2004, 10:36 PM
- - 4th rock from the sun   Just some data, to make things clearer: The Mars ...   May 3 2006, 03:14 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I thought that we could try to get the record stra...   May 10 2006, 04:42 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I have never heard 'Mars 8' used for that ...   May 10 2006, 04:59 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ May 10 2006, 12:59 P...   May 10 2006, 05:23 PM
|- - tedstryk   Mars '96 would have been Mars 8 if it hadn...   May 10 2006, 05:29 PM
- - Zvezdichko   36 years ago, on this very same day, 2 December 19...   Dec 2 2007, 11:58 AM
- - Adam   I might be wrong, but wasn't it pretty much de...   Dec 2 2007, 12:12 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yes. There have been speculations based on this im...   Dec 2 2007, 12:16 PM
- - nprev   A date & an achievement worth noting to be sur...   Dec 2 2007, 01:17 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yes, only 14 years after Sputnik mankind achieved ...   Dec 2 2007, 10:33 PM
|- - dilo   Perhaps a little bit OT, but not completely... Tod...   Dec 2 2007, 11:14 PM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 3 2007, 12:14 AM) Is in...   Dec 3 2007, 06:13 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (peter59 @ Dec 3 2007, 07:13 PM) EX...   Dec 4 2007, 04:28 PM
- - nprev   You're absolutely right, Dilo...we need to kee...   Dec 3 2007, 02:48 AM
- - Shaka   Good, that makes three dreamers at UMSF. How many ...   Dec 3 2007, 05:20 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (Shaka @ Dec 3 2007, 05:20 AM) Go...   Dec 4 2007, 04:48 PM
- - PDP8E   another more recent thread (36 years on mars) has ...   Dec 3 2007, 02:56 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 3 2007, 02:56 PM) anot...   Dec 3 2007, 05:22 PM
- - PhilCo126   Wait one minute, a topic on spacecraft lost around...   Dec 4 2007, 06:55 PM
- - PDP8E   MY SPECULATIVE ANALYSIS OF THE SOVIET MARS 3 LANDE...   Dec 12 2007, 06:57 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 12 2007, 07:57 PM) Som...   Dec 16 2007, 09:34 PM
- - Phil Stooke   "Its easy…look in and near northern Ptolemy C...   Dec 12 2007, 07:50 PM
- - djellison   So a 400km x 400km search box. 160,000 sqkm That...   Dec 12 2007, 08:02 PM
- - PDP8E   A brief scan of the web turned up these images of ...   Dec 14 2007, 03:51 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Dec 14 2007, 04:51 PM) A b...   Dec 15 2007, 08:18 AM
- - PhilCo126   Thanks for sharing those photos and only the black...   Dec 15 2007, 05:54 PM
- - PDP8E   We have had 8 more inches of snow today on top of ...   Dec 16 2007, 08:36 PM
- - Geert   Various sources all seem to confirm that the camer...   Jun 6 2008, 07:56 AM
|- - tedstryk   Two or three minutes into the transmission, the fi...   Jun 6 2008, 01:50 PM
- - aconnell   Dear Tedstryk. I'd be really grateful if you c...   Jun 6 2008, 05:11 PM
|- - tedstryk   It was an image I clearly labeled a "what if...   Jun 6 2008, 05:46 PM
- - nprev   I don't know, Ted. They're undeniably fasc...   Jun 6 2008, 07:06 PM
|- - tedstryk   nprev, as I said in my description at the beginnin...   Jun 6 2008, 08:26 PM
- - Geert   On his excellent site on Soviet Space Cameras ( ht...   Jun 7 2008, 08:42 AM
- - aconnell   Many thanks Ted. I can remember as a teenager in t...   Jun 7 2008, 02:09 PM
|- - tedstryk   It is a shame they didn't start the transmissi...   Jun 7 2008, 02:26 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Conspiracy theorists are and will always be a lost...   Jun 7 2008, 02:39 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 02:39 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 03:02 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, MetNet is an elegant decision. However, I...   Jun 7 2008, 03:23 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 03:23 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 03:28 PM
|- - tedstryk   Oh, OK, in the sense of possible launch failure. ...   Jun 7 2008, 03:46 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I personally see Volna as an unreliable vehicle.   Jun 7 2008, 03:35 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, that's what I meant. Volna failed to lau...   Jun 7 2008, 03:49 PM
|- - tedstryk   My guess is that the little Chinese orbiter took i...   Jun 7 2008, 03:54 PM
- - Zvezdichko   I understand, but I also don't see how the des...   Jun 7 2008, 04:02 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 04:02 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 04:05 PM
- - Zvezdichko   You are probably right. The Chinese orbiter will b...   Jun 7 2008, 04:17 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 7 2008, 05:17 PM)...   Jun 7 2008, 06:16 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Yeah, that's why the failure of Mars 96 was re...   Jun 7 2008, 06:41 PM
|- - tedstryk   I hope it makes it on there! By the way, here...   Jun 8 2008, 04:34 AM
- - Zvezdichko   Ted, I'm reading the upper link with a great i...   Jun 8 2008, 07:54 AM
|- - tedstryk   I don't think the Mars-6 flyby module took ima...   Jun 8 2008, 12:52 PM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jun 8 2008, 02:54 PM)...   Jun 9 2008, 05:12 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Geert @ Jun 9 2008, 06:12 AM) The ...   Jun 9 2008, 12:53 PM
- - Phil Stooke   A different story on Mars 2 and Mars 3. Where d...   Feb 5 2009, 12:14 AM
|- - tedstryk   According to Sasha Basilevsky, Hellas was chosen f...   Feb 5 2009, 12:39 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Yikes - Google Mars has Mars 2 at the stupid Wikip...   Feb 5 2009, 04:36 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 5 2009, 11:36 AM...   Feb 6 2009, 09:38 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Way off course by a few hundred km maybe, not half...   Feb 6 2009, 11:50 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 6 2009, 06:50 PM...   Feb 7 2009, 04:51 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Geert @ Feb 7 2009, 05:51 AM) It i...   Feb 7 2009, 01:47 PM
|- - DDAVIS   'The fact that the landingsites were chosen fr...   Feb 7 2009, 10:05 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Hi Don! You are thinking of Mars 6. The Mari...   Feb 7 2009, 11:16 PM
- - Phil Stooke   http://www.laspace.ru/rus/mars23.php Lavochkin we...   Feb 14 2009, 02:51 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 14 2009, 09:51 A...   Feb 14 2009, 05:26 AM
- - Geert   Forgot to mention that according to the above reas...   Feb 14 2009, 05:41 AM
- - nprev   Thank you for this very comprehensive and interest...   Feb 14 2009, 07:10 AM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 14 2009, 07:10 AM) I...   Feb 14 2009, 03:57 PM
- - Geert   Okay, one more remark and then I leave you in peac...   Feb 14 2009, 08:09 AM
|- - tedstryk   The altitude typically used today is 125 km for at...   Feb 14 2009, 02:56 PM
- - yurdel   please visit http://mars3.gornai.ru - my attempt o...   Apr 22 2009, 02:07 PM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 22 2009, 10:07 PM) pl...   Apr 22 2009, 02:48 PM
|- - tolis   Hi, Nice video! One search method that *migh...   Apr 22 2009, 09:03 PM
||- - Geert   QUOTE (tolis @ Apr 23 2009, 04:03 AM) One...   Apr 23 2009, 01:06 AM
|- - yurdel   QUOTE (Geert @ Apr 22 2009, 03:48 PM) Ver...   Apr 23 2009, 01:56 AM
|- - Geert   QUOTE (yurdel @ Apr 23 2009, 09:56 AM) I...   Apr 23 2009, 03:10 AM
|- - tedstryk   Amazing work!   Apr 23 2009, 09:43 AM
- - nprev   That was very cool, Yurdel; extremely interesting ...   Apr 23 2009, 02:06 AM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   Wow - this was and extremely interesting piece of ...   Apr 24 2009, 12:18 AM
|- - 4th rock from the sun   Very nice animation! A step by step illustrate...   Apr 24 2009, 09:11 AM
- - hendric   Yurdel, Very cool. Did you do this for a class?...   Apr 24 2009, 04:40 PM
|- - yurdel   QUOTE (hendric @ Apr 24 2009, 05:40 PM) Y...   Apr 25 2009, 02:27 AM
- - djellison   Very nice - I've always thought it would be fa...   Apr 24 2009, 04:50 PM
- - mhoward   Very nice! The vector animation somehow suits ...   Apr 24 2009, 05:12 PM
- - PDP8E   Happy MARS 3 Landing Anniversary (well, yesterday:...   Dec 3 2009, 10:06 PM
- - yurdel   The flashclip about Mars 3 has been added by music...   Dec 15 2009, 09:22 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Resurrecting an old thread... but it seems better ...   Apr 19 2011, 03:54 PM
|- - yurdel   My congratulations on forthcoming anniversary land...   Nov 29 2011, 11:06 PM
- - Paolo   a picture of a Mars-71 lander during impact tests   Mar 18 2013, 07:52 PM
- - volcanopele   Mars 3 hardware may have been spotted in some HiRI...   Apr 11 2013, 05:15 PM
- - remcook   Very nice "Philip J. Stooke from the Unive...   Apr 11 2013, 06:17 PM
- - TheAnt   I've read the text and found that they did the...   Apr 11 2013, 07:39 PM
|- - Zelenyikot   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 11 2013, 11:04 P...   Apr 12 2013, 06:57 AM
|- - TheAnt   QUOTE (Zelenyikot @ Apr 12 2013, 08:57 AM...   Apr 12 2013, 10:00 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I did offer some advice on this, though I had noth...   Apr 11 2013, 11:04 PM
- - Explorer1   It's the 2nd paragraph from bottom on this pag...   Apr 11 2013, 11:11 PM
- - J.J.   One similar feature would be easy to explain away;...   Apr 12 2013, 12:47 AM
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