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Akatsuki Venus Climate Orbiter
Paolo
post Mar 13 2010, 11:29 AM
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I thought it was time to start a separate thread on this mission, launching soon
some good medium-resolution images of the spacecraft are available on JAXA digital archives
http://jda.jaxa.jp/jda/p3_e.php?time=N&...mp;mission=4066
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monty python
post Dec 30 2010, 08:19 AM
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I've always wondered why the cassini people would risk a stuck closed engine cover. The risk for such an impact must have been thought to be well above zero or just compleatly unknown.
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rlorenz
post Dec 30 2010, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE (monty python @ Dec 30 2010, 03:19 AM) *
I've always wondered why the cassini people would risk a stuck closed engine cover. The risk for such an impact must have been thought to be well above zero or just compleatly unknown.


Where dust hazard is high, I think Cassini tends to fly through HGA-first

I was amazed at the IEEE Aerospace Conference this year to see a whole talk devoted to the engine cover (quite fascinating)

I believe Cassini ops consider the pros and cons of closing it after each burn (i.e. if another burn is coming up in a
couple of weeks, and we're at apoapsis away from ring particle hazards, leave it open as the (small) risk of sticking
is judged more than the (small) risk of impact). Obviously for long periods, and those close to rings etc, better to close
it. Worst case, the whole thing can be jetissonned by pyro.

(Really worst case, I guess you could blast through it with the engine, though you might get some small thrust
asymmetries)
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pandaneko
post Dec 31 2010, 08:30 AM
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There is an interesting article in today's Asahi newspaper. I will translate this first, because it is informative to lesser knowleged people like me. This article makes me think... It goes like this:

Akatsuki's failure is now known to have been caused by a mechanical valve mulfunction. Mechanical valve failures have been notorious with space probes. Fundamental solutions require desing alterations and it is feared that Hayabusa 2 might also be affected by this.

These mechanical valves are placed in the piping system which pumps fuel into the combustion chamber. JAXA said that test firing after launch did not show mulfunction, but during the retro firing the valve only opened only 1 to 10% of expected gap. As a result not enough fuel was supplied.

Burn temperature, if perfectly mixed fuel and oxidant is used, will go up to 2000 degrees and the nozzle will start melting. Therefore, typically, more fuel than required is supplied to cause in-efficient burn so that burn tem stays low.

However, with Akatsuki valve mulfunction meant more violent burn. Akatsuki was equipped with a ceramic nozzle, which is 200 degrees more resistant than alloy nozzles at 1500 degrees. However, this limit is thought to have been exceeded after two minutes of burn.

1993 NASA Mars probe had the same problem, the valve not closing and fuel flow reversed and it is thought that the probe exploded in mid space. In view of this JAXA added a second valve in a series. This would decrease the probabilit of reverse flow, but it doubles the probability of valve mulfunction. Nozomi went up in 1998 and the valves mulfunctioned and Nozomi was lost.

Therefore, JAXA went back to one valve system with Akatsuki and conducted extensive ground testing, but still the valve failed yet again.

With HTV that will be going up to ISS in a few weeks' time is equipped with two mechanical valves in a series and tow of this are placed in pararell (4 mechanical valves, that is) because HTV is made to manned specifications. Its computing system is 6 fold redundant.

On the other hand ISAS/JAXA probes are typically at around 0.5 ton, compared with NASA/ESA's tons.

Akatsuki's failure is right now even driving JAXA into re-checking HTV components and even Hayabusa 2's launch may be affected by all this. Substantial design alterations may mean that Hayabusa 2 may not go in 2014.

Pandaneko

I would have thought that larger and heavier probes are easier to make and cheaper...because materials cost must be less of a problem, and lots of space between components meaning easier design, no?

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pandaneko
post Dec 31 2010, 12:39 PM
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Q1: Design philosophy defference between fuel tank and oxidant tank

Q1 content: Fuel tank side has a diaphgram and the oxidant tank has redundant latching valves. What is the difference between these arrangements? 【

Answer by JAXA: page 9 of investigation 1-2

Answer contents by JAXA:

1. RCS: 1 liquid propulsion system

1.1 We adopted 1 liquid system RCS (attitude control thruster system) because it has been used extensively.

1.2 As a result, RCS does not need oxidant and receives fuel only from fuel system.

1.3 For this reason, our design is such that either one of the two systems will allow 3 axis attitude control and delicate orbital insertion firing. Thus, with each thruster and LV-F they are made into a redundant system.

1.4 With pipings etc, which cannot fail without external forces, no redundancy has been employed.

2. OME: 2 liquid system

2.1 We adopted 2 liquid system for OME (orbit change thruster)

2.2 For that reason, there are 2 supply systems for OME, fuel supply system and oxidant supply system

2.3 We adopted, basically, mono (or uni) system for reasons of resource restriction, use frequency, reliability by trading off.

2.4 With 2 liquid system the wrong mixture of fuel and oxidant will lead to an explosion in the worst case (*), 2 fold redundant system has been adopted to prevent this happening.


2.5 With the fuel tank side, we use a rubber surface to achieve fuel vapour and fuel liquid seperation and prevent fuel reverse flow upstream by a CV-F valve.

2.6 With the oxidant tank side, since there is no rubber surface resistant enough to oxidant we used CV-O and GLV-1 to prevent vapour going upstream.

(*) With Mars Observer, it is thought that it exploded with the wrong mixture just before reaching Mars.

#: It is possible to do liquid and vapour seperation using a metal plate. However, we did not adopt it for Akatsuki because of its low efficiency in extracting out oxidant, and repeated operation is not possible, and therefore, ground testing not possible.

2.7 With the one way mechanical valve, it is true that we did not incorporate redundancy, but all other space agencies adopt the same strategy and it is a generally accepted practice.

As will be shown in 2.2 of this report, we either do not adopt redundancy, or alternatively, we can use a simple series of valves. The only system of pararell and series redundancy (4 valves in all, against both leak and blockage) has been adopted only with HTV in this country which is designed for manned specification.

With GLV-1 and GLV-2, they have benn made into a pararell system to ensure redundancy against blockage.

3. High pressure gas system

3.1 Redundancy has been incorporated both against open/close mulfunctions with regulater valve, latching valve. This policy has been adopted with Hayabusa (1)

Pandaneko

This section has a continuation and I will work on that tommorrow. P
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rlorenz
post Dec 31 2010, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (pandaneko @ Dec 31 2010, 07:39 AM) *
2.5 With the fuel tank side, we use a rubber surface to achieve fuel vapour and fuel liquid seperation and prevent fuel reverse flow upstream by a CV-F valve.

2.6 With the oxidant tank side, since there is no rubber surface resistant enough to oxidant we used CV-O and GLV-1 to prevent vapour going upstream.


Very interesting, Pandanenko - thanks again for your hard work on these translations.

Something I do not understand myself is why CV-F is necessary, if its purpose is to prevent
mixing of fuel and oxidizer in the upstream pipework (one theory for the Mars Observer failure -
although only a theory - another holds that the regulator failed..)

In principle the polymer bladder that keeps the fuel at the outlet end shouldnt let any fuel into
the upstream pipework anyway. Is CV-F there to guard against diffusion through the bladder ?

I can see why a valve is necessary if using spin (a la Giotto) to keep propellant at the outlet side
of the tank, or using a shaped metal disk (surface tension propellant management device - which
I think is what the text says JAXA decided not to use on the oxidizer side) but not so much with a
bladder. Tough call, balancing one thing that is not supposed to happen (valve sticking shut, as
here) against another thing that is not supposed to happen (fuel leaking upstream through bladder)...

Maybe some propulsion experts out there can comment on how common practice it is to install
these valves
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pandaneko
post Jan 1 2011, 08:44 AM
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What follows is the continuation from the earlier section re design philosophy

For information:

Philosophy regarding domestic satellites 2 liquid system mechanical valve redundancy

Single: (single system)

*: same philosophy as with Akatsuki and examples include

Engineering test satellite, type VIII, such as KIku 8 (ETS-VIII)
Lunar satellite, Kaguya (SELENE)
Ultra high speed internet satellite, Kizuna (WINDS)
Mars probe, Nozomi (PLANET-cool.gif
Hayabusa (MUSES-C)
Infrared astronomical satellite, AKARI (ASTRO-F)

Series redundancy:

Reliability against vapour mixing is better, but blockage risk is increased

Examples include:

Communication engineering satellite, Kakehashi (COMETS)
Data relay satellite, Kodama (DRTS)
Multi-purpose transport satellite, Himawari 7 (MTSAS-2)
Quasi something (I cannot find the right translation here, P) satellite, Michibiki
(This satellite is meant to cover GPS hungry areas)

Parerell series redundancy:

This ensures redundancy agaist both vapour mixture and blockage

An example is HTV engineering test vehicle, Kounotori 1, a supply ship for ISS


Pandaneko
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Posts in this topic
- Paolo   Akatsuki Venus Climate Orbiter   Mar 13 2010, 11:29 AM
- - Paolo   of course, there are still many points that are ga...   Dec 18 2010, 10:28 AM
|- - pandaneko   Akatsuki failure report by JAXA (17 December 2010)...   Dec 18 2010, 12:20 PM
|- - pandaneko   3. Outline of the failure Akatsuki tried its orbit...   Dec 19 2010, 12:20 PM
- - nprev   "Sorry for the long post"? Au contrair...   Dec 23 2010, 07:05 AM
- - monty python   Wonderfull work Ralph and the spin idea does rock...   Dec 23 2010, 08:09 AM
- - nprev   And happy holidays (and thanks!) to you, P, fo...   Dec 23 2010, 09:33 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 23 2010, 04:33 AM) Qui...   Dec 23 2010, 03:01 PM
- - nprev   I hope spinning is a viable option considering the...   Dec 24 2010, 03:34 AM
- - Paolo   the biggest problem that I see with a spinner is t...   Dec 24 2010, 07:09 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (Paolo @ Dec 24 2010, 02:09 AM) the...   Dec 24 2010, 07:16 AM
- - nprev   I think if they spun it up s-l-o-w-l-y (and de-spu...   Dec 24 2010, 07:22 AM
- - nprev   Thanks yet again for your diligent efforts to keep...   Dec 25 2010, 08:42 AM
- - nprev   Pandaneko, I think that it's very safe to say ...   Dec 27 2010, 09:50 AM
- - Paolo   there are more pdfs released today by JAXA http://...   Dec 27 2010, 04:05 PM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (Paolo @ Dec 28 2010, 01:05 AM) the...   Dec 28 2010, 10:17 AM
- - nprev   Pandaneko, clarification re the valve: Do they mea...   Dec 27 2010, 07:44 PM
- - Hungry4info   That sounds like a rather lengthy process. Do you ...   Dec 27 2010, 11:30 PM
|- - pandaneko   2.2 FTA Here on this page there are 6 columns. Th...   Dec 28 2010, 09:28 AM
- - nprev   There may be ways to free up the valve through the...   Dec 28 2010, 10:12 AM
- - nprev   Aw... P, if it's any comfort, these things ...   Dec 28 2010, 10:32 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 28 2010, 05:32 AM) to ...   Dec 28 2010, 11:37 AM
- - Paolo   Pandaneko, I think we are all as grateful as one c...   Dec 28 2010, 11:49 AM
|- - pandaneko   I have given some thought to these FTA pages trans...   Dec 28 2010, 01:56 PM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Dec 28 2010, 10:56 PM)...   Dec 29 2010, 09:40 AM
|- - pandaneko   2.2 FTA (Box connection) 1. C1B1>C2B2>C3B1...   Dec 29 2010, 12:53 PM
|- - pandaneko   2.2 FTA continues (Here, we go again. I have been...   Dec 29 2010, 02:19 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Dec 29 2010, 09:19 AM)...   Dec 29 2010, 11:06 PM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Dec 30 2010, 08:06 AM) V...   Dec 30 2010, 09:11 AM
|- - pandaneko   2.2 FTA continues (box connections) 1. C1B1>C2...   Dec 30 2010, 10:17 AM
|- - pandaneko   3. Summary of the first report by Investigation Di...   Dec 30 2010, 12:22 PM
|- - pandaneko   Q and A Summary regarding JAXA 17 Dec 2010 report ...   Dec 30 2010, 12:59 PM
- - monty python   I've always wondered why the cassini people wo...   Dec 30 2010, 08:19 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (monty python @ Dec 30 2010, 03:19 ...   Dec 30 2010, 01:29 PM
|- - pandaneko   There is an interesting article in today's Asa...   Dec 31 2010, 08:30 AM
|- - pandaneko   Q1: Design philosophy defference between fuel tank...   Dec 31 2010, 12:39 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Dec 31 2010, 07:39 AM)...   Dec 31 2010, 01:44 PM
|- - pandaneko   What follows is the continuation from the earlier ...   Jan 1 2011, 08:44 AM
|- - pandaneko   Question 2: Question contents: Show us the OME str...   Jan 1 2011, 09:14 AM
|- - pandaneko   Question 3: Give us the detailed OME test manouvou...   Jan 1 2011, 09:42 AM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 1 2011, 06:42 PM) ...   Jan 2 2011, 08:37 AM
|- - pandaneko   Q4: Title: Justification for pressure sensor outpu...   Jan 2 2011, 09:02 AM
|- - pandaneko   Q5: Q title: Pressure at the start of OME and acce...   Jan 2 2011, 09:19 AM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 2 2011, 06:19 PM) ...   Jan 2 2011, 09:29 AM
|- - pandaneko   Q 6: About RCS Q contents: 1. Show me, on the s...   Jan 2 2011, 01:15 PM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 2 2011, 10:15 PM) ...   Jan 3 2011, 09:03 AM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 3 2011, 06:03 PM) ...   Jan 3 2011, 09:13 AM
|- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 3 2011, 06:13 PM) ...   Jan 3 2011, 09:32 AM
|- - pandaneko   Here goes the explanation on graph-2 Graph-2: RCS...   Jan 3 2011, 09:52 AM
|- - pandaneko   Q 7: About thermal stress and fuel over-supply Q ...   Jan 3 2011, 12:57 PM
|- - pandaneko   Q 8: about rear throat burn, unstable burn, and in...   Jan 3 2011, 01:38 PM
||- - pandaneko   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 3 2011, 10:38 PM) ...   Jan 4 2011, 10:51 AM
|- - pandaneko   According to today's Asahi newspaper here, JAX...   Jan 4 2011, 12:26 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jan 3 2011, 04:57 AM) ...   Jan 4 2011, 04:54 AM
|- - pandaneko   Q 12: Tell us a little more about back (?,P) data ...   Jan 4 2011, 01:31 PM
||- - pandaneko   Oh, my God! I had a quick look at the main JAX...   Jan 4 2011, 02:35 PM
|- - pandaneko   For my own sake, really, I looked up at the glossa...   Jan 5 2011, 09:48 AM
|- - pandaneko   Ambush operation by Akatsuki What follows appear...   Jan 5 2011, 12:20 PM
|- - pandaneko   OK, Akatsuki is almost dead now. However, is there...   Jan 5 2011, 03:56 PM
- - Juramike   That would be awesome!   Jan 4 2011, 01:16 AM
- - Explorer1   Great news if true! Can the the cameras handle...   Jan 4 2011, 01:54 AM
- - nprev   Not to sound like a wet blanket in any way, but I ...   Jan 4 2011, 02:30 AM
- - djellison   Don't worry - keep going. Text uses almost no...   Jan 4 2011, 03:29 PM
|- - tedstryk   Thanks so much for the updates. To me, the astero...   Jan 4 2011, 06:20 PM
|- - pandaneko   Page 4: 1. More detailed FTA 1.1 System FTA In t...   Jan 5 2011, 01:00 PM
- - tasp   Are all the computer savvy UMSFers running to thei...   Jan 4 2011, 06:36 PM
- - pandaneko   Investigation 2-2 About Akatsuki failure: trying ...   Jan 5 2011, 04:10 AM
|- - pandaneko   Page 2: Contents 0: summary of the report at the ...   Jan 5 2011, 04:34 AM
|- - pandaneko   Page 3: 0. Summary of the report at the second inv...   Jan 5 2011, 04:47 AM
- - IM4   QUOTE (tasp @ Jan 4 2011, 06:36 PM) Are a...   Jan 5 2011, 12:33 PM
8 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 > » 


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