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The Pioneer Anomaly
remcook
post Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
Post #1


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http://www.planetary.org/news/2005/pioneer_anomaly_faq.html

The planetary society may be checking it out...

QUOTE
The Planetary Society has committed to raise the funds to preserve the priceless Pioneer data from destruction.


After years of analysis, but without a final conclusion, NASA, astonishingly, gave up trying to solve the "Pioneer Anomaly" and provided no funds to analyze the data. The Pioneer data exists on a few hundred ancient 7- and 9-track magnetic tapes, which can only be read on "antique" outdated computers. The agency is going to scrap, literally demolish, the only computers able to access and process that data in the next few months!
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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Sep 3 2005, 09:07 AM
Post #2





Guests






Thanks to recent posters this thread took an interesting turn, that we could summarize that a mission specifically dedicated to the Pionneer anomaly would be potentially very interesting, but that it is not likely to fly one day.

It could become more likely if it is send with other equipments, for instance for the study of solar wind effect, interplanetary magnetic fields, etc. The overal design of such a probe could allow to measure the "Pioneer effect" with much more accuracy, or at least to prove/disprove its existence.

How could such a probe work?
Basically a test mass, a raw piece of metal, should freely navigate into the solar system, on a trajectory fleeing the sun, while being protected of any spurious accelerations: solar wind, electric/magnetic effecs, outgassing, position control, etc.

To achieve this, it would be completelly enclosed into a metal casing, while having no physical contact/interaction with it. The casing would use thrusters to lock itself on a fixed position relative to the test mass.

So the overall thing navigates as if it was in really complete vacuum, without solar wind, outgassing, etc. and it can provide accurate informations of pure gravitationnal nature, eventually different of the 1/r2 law, or accounting for unknown bodies. The info on the trajectory corrections achieved by the casing would on its side provide very accurate data on solar wind. This makes this probe more interesting and more likely to fly than just a Pioneer anomaly test probe.

The only spurious gravitationnal effect on the test mass would be... the gravitationnal field of the probe itself. Thus the test mass should be placed right at the center of mass of the probe. An error on this would produce a permanent offset that we could not distinguish from true effects. If preleminary calculations show this is a problem, we can use a better overal design: the probe is formed of three parts, linked with cables: at the centre the protective casing, and at the extremities the radio transmitters, thrusters, and any other payload useful for science (and also useful to make this mission more likely). The whole thing rotates on an axis which is perpendicular to the sun direction, right around the test mass.
This design will allow to know preciselly the centre of mass and to adjust it. But above all, any permanent offset will be cancelled, as it will pull at times toward the Sun, at times opposite to the Sun. So we can really maintain the test mass free of spurious gravitationnal effects from the probe itself.

Such a probe would be relatively light wheight, so that it could be launched on an interstellar trajectory directly from the surface of the Earth, without using gravitationnal assistance. So it could bring results after only a few years. Otherwise we can use Jupiter' assistance.


Will this design lead one day to a real experiment?
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Posts in this topic
- remcook   The Pioneer Anomaly   Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
- - remcook   Some background reading... http://arxiv.org/find/...   Aug 16 2005, 04:40 PM
|- - tedstryk   Won't New Horizons be spin stabilized when not...   Aug 16 2005, 06:53 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 16 2005, 11:40 AM)Some b...   Aug 17 2005, 07:09 PM
- - remcook   Quote from alan stern: QUOTE Yes, we spin most of...   Aug 16 2005, 07:43 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Could not the Pioneer tapes be saved on a more mod...   Aug 17 2005, 06:37 AM
- - remcook   QUOTE It looks like the Pioneers have long stopped...   Aug 17 2005, 08:09 PM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 17 2005, 08:09 PM)that...   Aug 17 2005, 11:10 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Aug 18 2005, 12:10 AM)Not ...   Aug 18 2005, 08:24 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   As far as I understand from readings in the press,...   Aug 18 2005, 06:59 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Aug 17 2005, 11:59 P...   Aug 26 2005, 09:08 PM
|- - antoniseb   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 26 2005, 04:08 PM)...   Aug 26 2005, 10:42 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (antoniseb @ Aug 26 2005, 03:42 PM)The ...   Aug 29 2005, 05:25 PM
|- - algorimancer   It seems to me that a simple means of checking thi...   Aug 29 2005, 05:40 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Aug 29 2005, 10:40 AM)I...   Aug 29 2005, 06:12 PM
- - edstrick   Climate orbiter was not radar tracked, it was tran...   Aug 30 2005, 08:52 AM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (edstrick @ Aug 30 2005, 08:52 AM)There...   Aug 30 2005, 07:12 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bill: Your links, er, don't! Bob Shaw   Aug 31 2005, 11:28 AM
|- - Mongo   That's strange; I just clicked on them and the...   Aug 31 2005, 02:45 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Mongo @ Aug 31 2005, 03:45 PM)That...   Aug 31 2005, 03:42 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Aug 31 2005, 03:42 PM)I pro...   Aug 31 2005, 03:57 PM
- - The Messenger   I am at least as interested in the flight path ecc...   Aug 31 2005, 06:56 PM
|- - antoniseb   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM)...   Aug 31 2005, 09:58 PM
- - dvandorn   Hmmm... well, the effect must be very, very minor ...   Aug 31 2005, 07:24 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks to recent posters this thread took an inter...   Sep 3 2005, 09:07 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 3 2005, 07:07 PM...   Sep 5 2005, 12:13 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   A rather interesting prospective explanation of th...   Sep 3 2005, 10:07 AM
- - remcook   some people seem to agree and applied for funding ...   Sep 3 2005, 10:18 AM
- - The Messenger   Richard's proposed test of the Pioneer Anomaly...   Sep 3 2005, 05:00 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Messenger, my idea was intended to detect a gravi...   Sep 4 2005, 07:03 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   The LISA observatory project will use three test m...   Sep 5 2005, 08:57 AM
- - The Messenger   All of these approaches use assumptions we should ...   Sep 5 2005, 04:28 PM
|- - jamescanvin   Heading off topic but... QUOTE (The Messenger ...   Sep 6 2005, 12:17 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 5 2005, 05:17 PM)Hea...   Sep 6 2005, 05:53 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks jamescanvin for the image and the info it c...   Sep 6 2005, 06:37 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 6 2005, 04:37 PM...   Sep 7 2005, 12:27 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 7 2005, 12:27 AM)Yes...   Sep 7 2005, 05:42 AM
- - dvandorn   Once again, I'm asking a question that I proba...   Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM)Does a...   Sep 7 2005, 10:28 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 7 2005, 03:28 AM...   Sep 8 2005, 06:21 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 8 2005, 06:21 PM)I...   Sep 9 2005, 07:21 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 9 2005, 12:21 AM...   Sep 12 2005, 01:49 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 12 2005, 01:49 PM)...   Sep 12 2005, 02:23 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 12 2005, 07:23 A...   Sep 12 2005, 06:56 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 12 2005, 06:56 PM)...   Sep 13 2005, 10:15 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 13 2005, 05:15 A...   Sep 13 2005, 01:17 PM
- - edstrick   I'd have to check, but I think the Apollo 17 i...   Sep 7 2005, 08:22 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 09:22 AM)The in...   Sep 7 2005, 09:42 AM
||- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Sep 7 2005, 04:42 AM)Oooh, ...   Sep 7 2005, 06:33 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:33 PM)Oh, th...   Sep 7 2005, 08:47 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 03:22 AM)I...   Sep 7 2005, 06:41 PM
- - edstrick   When the gravimeter was proposed, selected and des...   Sep 7 2005, 10:38 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 10:38 AM)When t...   Sep 7 2005, 02:38 PM
- - edstrick   "From what I understand, though, even with th...   Sep 8 2005, 10:49 AM
- - edstrick   It has been hoped that cosmic sources of gravitati...   Sep 9 2005, 07:45 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 9 2005, 07:45 AM)As far...   Sep 9 2005, 08:17 AM
- - The Messenger   Suggestions, by anyone, of engineering on this sca...   Sep 13 2005, 04:16 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 13 2005, 04:16 PM)...   Sep 13 2005, 06:06 PM
- - The Messenger   Returning to the Pioneer Anomally: You may or may...   Sep 14 2005, 03:31 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Messenger, yes the Earth does have a "gravita...   Sep 14 2005, 03:46 PM
|- - ljk4-1   http://www.issi.unibe.ch/teams/Pioneer/ The Pione...   Oct 3 2005, 04:46 AM
- - edstrick   ljk4-1: "...The Pioneer Explorer Collaboratio...   Oct 3 2005, 07:15 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks ljk4-1 for your interesting contribution. A...   Oct 3 2005, 08:15 AM
- - deglr6328   sooooo did the planetary soc. get the data or what...   Oct 3 2005, 09:53 AM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Oct 3 2005, 02:53 AM)soooo...   Nov 10 2005, 01:29 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 9 2005, 08:29 PM) We...   Nov 10 2005, 02:33 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 10 2005, 07:33 AM)De...   Nov 10 2005, 04:46 PM
- - edstrick   <grin> by "anomaly" I mean an ord...   Oct 3 2005, 09:57 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 3 2005, 09:57 AM)<gr...   Oct 3 2005, 12:40 PM
- - edstrick   Aliens?... I thought it was the CIA and FBI.... or...   Oct 4 2005, 06:27 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 4 2005, 06:27 AM)Aliens...   Oct 4 2005, 07:37 AM
- - edstrick   You know what the problem is with make-believe par...   Oct 4 2005, 10:51 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 4 2005, 10:51 AM)You kn...   Oct 4 2005, 04:41 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0504367 From: Gary...   Oct 4 2005, 07:35 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper: astro-ph/0506281 replaced with revised ve...   Oct 26 2005, 02:08 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper (*cross-listing*): gr-qc/0511026 Date: Sun...   Nov 9 2005, 04:32 PM
- - Myran   Calculations using the 'MOND' theory (Modi...   Nov 9 2005, 09:10 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   I wonder if we could do any theory of any kind, ad...   Nov 9 2005, 09:21 PM
- - mike   That's what a theory is.   Nov 9 2005, 09:42 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Richard Trigaux said: I wonder if we could d...   Nov 10 2005, 05:21 AM
- - lyford   Call me old fashioned, but I am a bit wary of jett...   Nov 10 2005, 06:41 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (lyford @ Nov 9 2005, 11:41 PM)Call me ...   Nov 10 2005, 04:44 PM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Nov 10 2005, 08:44 AM)...   Nov 10 2005, 10:06 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0505310 From: Mic...   Dec 20 2005, 04:05 PM
|- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Jan 3 2006, 02:31 AM
|- - tfisher   I just read through the last paper linked. They...   Jan 3 2006, 07:10 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper: astro-ph/0504367 Date (v1): Sun, 17 Apr 20...   Jan 4 2006, 06:18 PM
- - tasp   I bet it is not as simple as this, but I will pos...   Jan 5 2006, 04:14 AM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (tasp @ Jan 4 2006, 08:14 PM)Any possib...   Jan 5 2006, 06:06 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 5 2006, 07:06 AM)One probl...   Jan 5 2006, 08:52 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 5 2006, 09:52 AM)Wasn...   Jan 5 2006, 01:16 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Can New Horizons participate in this experiment? ...   Jan 5 2006, 02:22 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 5 2006, 02:22 PM)Can...   Jan 5 2006, 02:43 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 5 2006, 03:43 PM)That...   Jan 5 2006, 02:50 PM
- - tasp   If an objection to putting a Voyager into a slow s...   Jan 5 2006, 02:45 PM
- - djellison   Damn good point actually UG - hadnt thought of tha...   Jan 5 2006, 02:58 PM
- - ugordan   QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 5 2006, 03:58 PM)Then ...   Jan 5 2006, 03:05 PM
- - NMRguy   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Feb 23 2005, 09:20 AM)Yes...   Jan 5 2006, 05:19 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (NMRguy @ Jan 5 2006, 05:19 PM)Alan add...   Jan 5 2006, 05:56 PM
- - tty   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 5 2006, 05:05 PM)Might h...   Jan 5 2006, 06:47 PM
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