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Geomorphology of Gale Crater, Rock on!
ngunn
post Sep 26 2012, 10:22 PM
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I'd like a discussion thread about the geology detatched from the time limits of current MSL threads. We had a 'Geomorphology of Cape York' thread that attracted a lot of interesting posts. How about 'Geomorphology of Gale Crater'? I have one or two ideas but many more questions, and I'd like to post them in a longer-running thread away from the day to day imaging discussion. Any other takers?

For starters, does anybody have a contour map of this place like the one at Meridiani with 5m intervals?


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drz1111
post Oct 1 2012, 05:59 PM
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A question about redox and sedimentary paleoenvironments on Mars:

One of the things I've been thinking about the last few days is that my instincts w/r/t paleoenvironments is all wrong when it comes to Mars.

Take "hottah" - when I saw that, I immediately thought "oh, its cool as hell, but I see why they didn't stop there - fluvial conglomerates are notoriously poor environments to preserve organics".

But that's wrong, or rather, potentially wrong, on Mars, isn't it? It's true on earth in post-proterozoic rocks b/c the atmosphere is oxic and sediment deposited in well-mixed water will lead to oxidized organics, most likely through biologic activity.

But who-the-hell-knows what the Mars atmosphere was like when those conglomerates were deposited? Wouldn't it be more likely that the conglomerates were deposited in a reducing environment, like those auriferous precambrian conglomerates in south africa? Is that necessarily a bad environment for preservation of organics?

Which leads me to my next point, color. When you look at some of the finely-bedded outcrops that the pictures are showing, they're clearly darker and, more importantly, greyer than the overlying rocks (e.g. compared to the hottah, which seems to be a light tan). Earth-instincts; that's a shale or shale-like rock, deposited in an anoxic environment.

But why would that be so on Mars? I guess EVERY lacustrine-type depositional environment on Mars could be anoxic, but, that's not consistent with where Mars eventually evolves to and what MER observed. Redox is all a big mystery, right? We don't know the chemsistry, and one thing that seems likely is that the biologicially mediated redox chemistry that you see in sediments in Earth is unlikely to apply there. And do our usual Earth-honed instincts about color & redox state of the paleoenvironment hold true?

And, to sum it all up, to the extent we don't know much about any of the above, how the heck do we know where to look for preserved organics?
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Posts in this topic
- ngunn   Geomorphology of Gale Crater   Sep 26 2012, 10:22 PM
- - Eyesonmars   I'm a little confused about the layers on Mt. ...   Sep 27 2012, 12:42 AM
- - Ondaweb   QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 26 2012, 05:22 PM) How...   Sep 27 2012, 01:25 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Sediment settling out of a fluid onto a flat surfa...   Sep 27 2012, 01:25 AM
- - dvandorn   One rim of Gale Crater is quite a bit higher above...   Sep 27 2012, 03:16 AM
- - Explorer1   Could we figure out a ballpark estimate for the si...   Sep 27 2012, 03:20 AM
- - serpens   Great idea ngunn. To appreciate the variations in...   Sep 27 2012, 04:34 AM
- - ngunn   (Thanks admin ) I have been wondering about the ...   Sep 27 2012, 07:39 AM
- - jmknapp   The operative sentence from the Anderson/Bell pape...   Sep 27 2012, 10:11 AM
- - ngunn   Also in that paper (pp107-8) is discussion of the ...   Sep 27 2012, 06:03 PM
- - Chmee   Great idea for this thread. Since there is no obvi...   Sep 27 2012, 08:25 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Chmee @ Sep 27 2012, 01:25 PM) Sin...   Sep 27 2012, 08:30 PM
- - ngunn   Add to that the possibility of quite a lot of ice ...   Sep 27 2012, 08:45 PM
- - Eyesonmars   Also note that Curiosity is sitting on or very nea...   Sep 27 2012, 09:16 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Sep 27 2012, 10:16 PM...   Sep 28 2012, 05:10 AM
||- - Eyesonmars   QUOTE (serpens @ Sep 28 2012, 05:10 AM) N...   Sep 28 2012, 01:18 PM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Sep 27 2012, 02:16 PM...   Sep 29 2012, 01:34 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (atomoid @ Sep 28 2012, 08:34 PM) i...   Sep 29 2012, 02:36 AM
|- - fthurber   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 28 2012, 10:36 PM) ...   Oct 1 2012, 01:47 AM
- - Don1   Anybody like the idea of a mud volcano for Mt Shar...   Sep 28 2012, 05:48 AM
- - xflare   What kind of theories and ideas are floating aroun...   Sep 28 2012, 08:41 AM
- - ngunn   See the discussion I referred to in post 10 for st...   Sep 28 2012, 10:46 AM
- - Art Martin   I'm having a hard time reconciling from the ne...   Sep 28 2012, 08:01 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Art Martin @ Sep 28 2012, 09:01 PM...   Sep 28 2012, 08:05 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Art, Mt Sharp runs all around the south horizon fr...   Sep 28 2012, 08:08 PM
- - elakdawalla   I made this two days ago -- it's an un-polar p...   Sep 28 2012, 08:08 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Sep 28 2012, 09:08 P...   Sep 28 2012, 09:40 PM
- - Art Martin   Thanks, so much clearer now. I just had no idea o...   Sep 28 2012, 08:41 PM
- - elakdawalla   That is precisely what I was using it for. Don...   Sep 28 2012, 10:17 PM
|- - fthurber   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Sep 28 2012, 06:17 P...   Sep 28 2012, 10:57 PM
- - elakdawalla   Here you go. Attached version is 3600 pixels wide ...   Sep 29 2012, 12:15 AM
- - drz1111   A question about redox and sedimentary paleoenviro...   Oct 1 2012, 05:59 PM
- - elakdawalla   Re: Hottah, that's a good question, and there ...   Oct 1 2012, 07:03 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   The area Curiosity has been traversing has quite a...   Oct 1 2012, 08:50 PM
|- - drz1111   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Oct 1 2012, 03:03 PM...   Oct 1 2012, 09:11 PM
- - ngunn   Eyesonmars: Interesting question. Here's an of...   Oct 1 2012, 09:31 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 1 2012, 09:31 PM) Like...   Oct 2 2012, 07:41 PM
- - ngunn   I've just come across this detailed thermal in...   Oct 4 2012, 08:39 PM
- - djellison   Yes - the full size is here : http://www.nasa.gov/...   Oct 4 2012, 09:34 PM
- - ngunn   Brilliant! Thanks Doug. While you're on th...   Oct 4 2012, 09:56 PM
- - djellison   Contour - no - but there is this - http://photojou...   Oct 4 2012, 10:10 PM
- - ngunn   That's good, and there's also this: http:/...   Oct 4 2012, 10:30 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   True. But even at 100 meters/pixel you can just ma...   Oct 4 2012, 11:12 PM
- - elakdawalla   Peter Grindrod has a good blog entry on this topic...   Oct 4 2012, 11:17 PM
- - ngunn   Just what I was looking for, thanks Emily.   Oct 5 2012, 08:48 AM
- - ngunn   I am particularly intrigued by the enclosed depres...   Oct 6 2012, 09:30 AM
|- - Eyesonmars   QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 6 2012, 10:30 AM) I am...   Oct 6 2012, 07:26 PM
- - ngunn   It's fun to look at those craterlets and imagi...   Oct 6 2012, 08:53 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   I agree. It is great fun to try to imagine process...   Oct 6 2012, 09:08 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Oct 6 2012, 09:08 PM)...   Oct 7 2012, 03:22 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (serpens @ Oct 7 2012, 04:22 AM) Th...   Oct 7 2012, 07:40 AM
- - Eyesonmars   Also - as you queried - Where is the water flowing...   Oct 6 2012, 09:30 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Oct 6 2012, 10:30 PM)...   Oct 6 2012, 10:12 PM
|- - Ondaweb   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Oct 6 2012, 04:30 PM)...   Oct 7 2012, 09:30 PM
- - Fran Ontanaya   Mmh, is the assumed order of events: 1) the last s...   Oct 7 2012, 08:59 AM
- - serpens   The filled then excavated crater hypothesis seems ...   Oct 7 2012, 02:00 PM
- - ngunn   There are contours derived from CTX by Peter Grind...   Oct 7 2012, 09:51 PM
- - pgrindrod   After a few requests, I've made some base maps...   Oct 8 2012, 04:16 PM
- - ngunn   Extremely helpful and much, much appreciated.   Oct 8 2012, 07:10 PM
- - Ondaweb   Thanks Pete, very helpful indeed. One of the thin...   Oct 9 2012, 01:23 AM
- - jmknapp   A paper from the MSL team to be delivered at the G...   Oct 16 2012, 02:30 AM
- - Stellingwerff   Hi Joe, I think you are slightly too high up the ...   Oct 16 2012, 05:34 AM
- - CosmicRocker   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Oct 15 2012, 08:30 PM) A...   Oct 16 2012, 06:16 AM
- - jmknapp   Ludo, thanks for that--looks like a good inference...   Oct 16 2012, 11:24 AM
- - Zelenyikot   Greetings from Russia I want to share my obser...   Nov 5 2012, 05:24 AM
|- - acastillo   Hi, my first post. The problem with a volcanic in...   Nov 5 2012, 06:06 PM
- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Nov 28 2012, 03:37 P...   Nov 28 2012, 04:35 PM
- - elakdawalla   One feature very common to Gale crater, both its f...   Nov 28 2012, 04:48 PM
|- - ddan   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 28 2012, 11:48 A...   Nov 28 2012, 05:12 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (ddan @ Nov 28 2012, 10:12 AM) One ...   Nov 28 2012, 06:25 PM
|- - SteveM   The uniformitarian in me gets nervous when I read ...   Nov 28 2012, 08:08 PM
||- - serpens   QUOTE (SteveM @ Nov 28 2012, 09:08 PM) Th...   Nov 29 2012, 09:13 PM
|- - Chmee   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 28 2012, 01:25 PM...   Nov 29 2012, 06:45 PM
- - Phil Stooke   At some point if the debris breaks down into suffi...   Nov 28 2012, 05:41 PM
- - ngunn   It's a great phrase isn't it? Get's yo...   Nov 28 2012, 08:27 PM
|- - Actionman   QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 28 2012, 03:27 PM) Wit...   Nov 29 2012, 01:10 PM
- - Zelenyikot   My thought involves this element. It looks as a wa...   Nov 29 2012, 02:52 AM
- - djellison   Are you suggesting that Mt Sharp is just a pile of...   Nov 29 2012, 03:02 PM
- - Actionman   yes, maybe glacial cone/funnel Some evidence woul...   Nov 29 2012, 05:41 PM
- - Phil Stooke   There is plenty of evidence for glaciers elsewhere...   Nov 29 2012, 05:50 PM
- - Actionman   It's a cinch we're not going to be finding...   Nov 30 2012, 12:20 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Actionman @ Nov 29 2012, 04:20 PM)...   Nov 30 2012, 12:36 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Actionman @ Nov 29 2012, 07:20 PM)...   Nov 30 2012, 02:34 AM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (Actionman @ Nov 29 2012, 04:20 PM)...   Nov 30 2012, 05:50 AM
- - Actionman   I'm sorry elakda for making it sound too you l...   Nov 30 2012, 12:13 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Actionman @ Nov 30 2012, 07:13 AM)...   Nov 30 2012, 01:45 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Actionman @ Nov 30 2012, 04:13 AM)...   Nov 30 2012, 04:36 PM
- - ngunn   I think the term you want is 'basement rock...   Nov 30 2012, 12:43 PM
- - Stellingwerff   QUOTE We see chucks of basalt everywhere BUT what ...   Nov 30 2012, 01:04 PM
- - Actionman   And thank you Ludo. Make it so   Nov 30 2012, 01:14 PM
- - Ant103   Can I ask something ? Not very important, but for ...   Nov 30 2012, 05:46 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Ant103 @ Nov 30 2012, 09:46 AM) Ca...   Nov 30 2012, 06:01 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   Not a good idea. The science of geology is what i...   Nov 30 2012, 05:54 PM
- - Actionman   In this GIF from the above Mr. Anderson and James ...   Nov 30 2012, 05:54 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Actionman @ Nov 30 2012, 09:54 AM)...   Nov 30 2012, 06:16 PM
- - Ant103   Okay, I understand totaly I was just asking. It...   Nov 30 2012, 06:06 PM
- - Actionman   Basal and basalt are important distinctions both o...   Nov 30 2012, 06:38 PM
- - djellison   You can not scatter 'basal' on the surface...   Nov 30 2012, 06:44 PM
- - ngunn   With the Anderson and Bell diagram easily to hand ...   Nov 30 2012, 07:09 PM
- - djellison   We're (I think) in the area where the HP, HTIF...   Nov 30 2012, 07:14 PM
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