High-Temp Electronics For Venus Exploration, recent advances Options

[dtolman]

(MOD NOTE: Started a new topic for this discussion to continue. Please remember the 'no sci-fi engineering' provision of rule 1.9. Have fun!)


Also, since I'm thinking about surface operations on Venus, the state-of-the-art in high temperature electronics has advanced quite far in the past decade.
Its now possible to buy off the shelf chips from vendors designed to operate at the 250-300 C range.

Meanwhile basic functionality has been tested at and beyond the temperatures needed for long-term surface operations on Venus:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/SiC/
http://www.gizmag.com/extreme-silicon-carb...ctronics/16410/
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/SiC/publicatio...Contact2010.pdf

Another decade or so and a long-term Venus lander could be possible with (practically) off the shelf electronics!

[dtolman]

I think you're being pessimistic. The state of the art for commercial tech is moving to a 500C package. Automotive want it, and drillers need it - with immediate potential sales in the 10K-100K annual range, and potentially in the Millions if it becomes standard in engines, there's enough sales carrot to push research. NASA can wait, and in 5-10 years use COTS equipment as the basis of a Venusian lander.

The question of pushing existing tech into the 500C range is interesting - found this abstract that claims they were able to get existing Silicon-on-Insulator EEPROM cells working at up to 450C in a lab, well beyond the ~200C they are rated for now. That bodes well for getting memory working at venusian ranges in the near-future, rather the nebulous "5-10 years from now" that never arrives.

As for existing tech - there definitely isn't anything outside of a lab that will work over long durations, but short duration missions are possible now with existing tech from what I can see. For example, here is an existing pressure/temperature sensor package that is rated at 4-5 hours at 400C. While the sensors in this particular unit may be of limited interest*, my point is that they can get modern electronics to last long enough to return useful data from the upper elevations of the highlands for a few hours - now.

EDIT * - thinking about it, measuring temp/pressure/motion at a lot of locations would probably be useful. Wonder how expensive it would be to equip borehole sensor packages with a transmitter and a parachute, and dump a bunch across the highlands of Venus? Gotta be cheaper than doing it from scratch...

[Robotbeat]

...

EDIT * - thinking about it, measuring temp/pressure/motion at a lot of locations would probably be useful. Wonder how expensive it would be to equip borehole sensor packages with a transmitter and a parachute, and dump a bunch across the highlands of Venus? Gotta be cheaper than doing it from scratch...

I've thought of the same thing... The issue is partially that if you /actually/ press the borehole guys about operation at 460C, they dither a bit. They aren't nearly so optimistic as their websites claim.

I hope you're right about me being pessimistic

[dtolman]

Its a good thing that Ishtar Terra has temperatures that drop as...low... as ~380 (Maxwell Mons - +11km above surface), and averages "only" 420 or so at its average height of ~+5km.
Gotta start somewhere on Venus, and Maxwell Mons and the other high peaks around Ishtar Terra might be a good place to start with existing tech.

EDIT: Another project for ~450 C operation, through the DoE:
http://www4.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/projects?filter[field_project_technology][0]=%2214%22
This presentation in particular (from last year - final results in the forthcoming 2013 report) indicates they were able to get data back from a 450C environment (vacuum flasked electronics).