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ROVER WHEELS: Monitoring changes over time, NOTE: Read back through the thread to avoid repeating misconceptions
DeanM
post May 16 2013, 08:35 AM
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[MOD NOTE: This thread follows on a post by Ed Truthan containing a MAHLI mosaic of MSL wheels taken on sol 275.]

Ed: zooming in on that marvellous underbelly MAHLI montage, there appears to be further (and previously noted) deformation of the wheel surfaces.

Damage is most evident in the view of the front-left wheel inner surface.

Such wear has previously been discussed and concerns allayed.

Nevertheless, the front left wheel surface *appears* to have been punctured.

Attached Image


We've only done 700 meters, and have 7000 more to get to Mt Sharp.....

Given that more odometry has now accumulated, is any (re-)new(ed) concern valid?

DeanM
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Jimbo1955
post Dec 7 2013, 06:00 PM
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What surprises me about the wheel damage isn't the dents. That would be expected in thin aluminum. But the gaping holes are surprising to me. It's like the alloy is very brittle.
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mcaplinger
post Dec 7 2013, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (Jimbo1955 @ Dec 7 2013, 11:00 AM) *
It's like the alloy is very brittle.

I assume (with no evidence to support it) that the wheels are 7075 alloy, which is somewhere near the upper end of aluminum alloys for fracture toughness -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittle_strength . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracture is a useful intro to various types of fracture; see "ductile fracture". I'm not a mechanical engineer or a materials scientist and a hole is a little surprising to me too, but I'd rather see a clean hole than a big propagating rip.

To anticipate a question, aluminum is less subject than say, steel, to low-temperature embrittlement. See http://www.keytometals.com/page.aspx?ID=Ch...e=ktn&NM=23 -- "Below zero, most aluminum alloys show little change in properties; yield and tensile strengths may increase; elongation may decrease slightly; impact strength remains approximately constant. Consequently, aluminum is useful material for many low-temperature applications."

To sum up (note that this is all my opinion derived from public information because I've intentionally not looked at any project-internal sources on this): yes, there are holes in the wheels. Some level of wheel damage was clearly anticipated by the designers. There are a lot of tradeoffs in the MSL wheel design and it may well have not been feasible to make wheels that were impervious to puncture. Imaging the wheels is being done, presumably to assess the amount and evolution of damage. Exactly what the level of concern is, if any, is something for the project to say.


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Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Posts in this topic
- DeanM   ROVER WHEELS: Monitoring changes over time   May 16 2013, 08:35 AM
- - elakdawalla   OK, that was pretty funny.   May 20 2013, 03:57 AM
- - djellison   Yup - hats off to that one   May 20 2013, 04:03 AM
- - pospa   One question related to this topic, ... I hope. As...   Oct 7 2013, 08:35 PM
- - Gerald   Sol 411 MAHLI x-eyed stereo showing part of a whee...   Oct 10 2013, 07:35 AM
- - xflare   Another hole http://www.midnightplanets.com/web/M...   Oct 16 2013, 10:48 AM
- - djellison   Go to any aerospace grade machine shop.   Oct 19 2013, 01:42 AM
|- - pospa   Or visit directly Next Intent where they produced ...   Oct 19 2013, 08:24 AM
- - Gerald   Sol 463 MAHLI x-eyed stereo of the left central wh...   Nov 25 2013, 03:21 PM
- - elakdawalla   Wow.   Nov 25 2013, 04:29 PM
|- - walfy   The wheel for the glasses:   Nov 25 2013, 05:13 PM
- - Gerald   Sol 469-471 Update On Curiosity From USGS Scientis...   Nov 28 2013, 12:53 PM
|- - MahFL   Well there you go, if the team were concerned abou...   Nov 28 2013, 04:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (MahFL @ Nov 28 2013, 09:56 AM) if ...   Nov 28 2013, 05:10 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (MahFL @ Nov 28 2013, 08:56 AM) Wel...   Nov 28 2013, 05:18 PM
- - bobik   Are there any papers on MSL wheel design trade-off...   Nov 29 2013, 06:39 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (bobik @ Nov 29 2013, 11:39 AM) Are...   Nov 29 2013, 06:59 PM
- - Phil Stooke   One way to look at this is that the cleats really ...   Nov 29 2013, 07:37 PM
- - serpens   So one can posit a scenario where rather than pick...   Nov 29 2013, 09:33 PM
- - Explorer1   Who says MSL has no sample cache...   Nov 29 2013, 09:38 PM
- - bobik   It would be interesting to know what other wheel o...   Nov 30 2013, 08:55 AM
|- - pospa   QUOTE (bobik @ Nov 30 2013, 10:55 AM) It ...   Nov 30 2013, 01:01 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (pospa @ Nov 30 2013, 05:01 AM) and...   Nov 30 2013, 08:13 PM
|- - pospa   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 30 2013, 10:13 PM)...   Nov 30 2013, 10:30 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (pospa @ Nov 30 2013, 02:30 PM) we...   Nov 30 2013, 11:47 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 30 2013, 01:13 PM)...   Dec 1 2013, 12:13 AM
- - djellison   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 30 2013, 12:13 PM)...   Dec 1 2013, 02:08 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 30 2013, 07:08 PM)...   Dec 1 2013, 03:00 AM
- - Gerald   Sol 472-473 Update On Curiosity From USGS Scientis...   Dec 4 2013, 01:04 PM
|- - paxdan   Yes it can and just such an experiement was done u...   Dec 4 2013, 02:04 PM
|- - dilo   A small question: could the recent wheel status wo...   Dec 4 2013, 02:46 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 4 2013, 06:46 AM) A sma...   Dec 4 2013, 03:41 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 4 2013, 04:41 PM) ...   Dec 4 2013, 08:43 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 4 2013, 03:43 PM) ....i...   Dec 4 2013, 08:58 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 4 2013, 12:43 PM) howev...   Dec 4 2013, 10:16 PM
- - Gerald   Thanks a lot! So there is a good chance, that ...   Dec 4 2013, 02:35 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Gerald @ Dec 4 2013, 07:35 AM) we ...   Dec 4 2013, 04:41 PM
- - Phil Stooke   No - 472 was the last drive, so we have not seen a...   Dec 4 2013, 03:12 PM
- - dvandorn   I doubt there is a huge amount of straight scienti...   Dec 4 2013, 09:01 PM
- - serpens   Well said Doug, and both areas of analysis are of ...   Dec 4 2013, 10:00 PM
- - Jimbo1955   What surprises me about the wheel damage isn't...   Dec 7 2013, 06:00 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Jimbo1955 @ Dec 7 2013, 11:00 AM) ...   Dec 7 2013, 06:45 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 7 2013, 10:45 AM)...   Dec 7 2013, 07:50 PM
- - nprev   Given the fact that much larger holes were manufac...   Dec 7 2013, 07:28 PM
|- - Jimbo1955   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 7 2013, 03:28 PM) Give...   Dec 7 2013, 10:33 PM
- - serpens   So why not put this thread to bed.   Dec 7 2013, 09:42 PM
- - djellison   Group therapy for the morbidly pessimistic.   Dec 7 2013, 10:06 PM
- - ngunn   Pictures of the wheels are great, particularly whe...   Dec 7 2013, 10:07 PM
- - Phil Stooke   We get that, but the other holes show that the one...   Dec 7 2013, 10:49 PM
- - bobik   Why not use tires made of a titanium alloy?   Dec 8 2013, 05:48 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (bobik @ Dec 8 2013, 10:48 AM) Why ...   Dec 8 2013, 06:17 PM
- - nprev   I think that it's safe to say that the admin/m...   Dec 8 2013, 07:23 PM
- - bobik   I am only asking questions to learn about the engi...   Dec 8 2013, 07:30 PM
- - nprev   Nobody's preventing you from doing so; again, ...   Dec 8 2013, 07:50 PM
- - EdTruthan   These stereo views seemed to go better in this thr...   Dec 8 2013, 08:11 PM
- - jasedm   A quick google search unearthed the following: 80+...   Dec 8 2013, 08:16 PM
- - Gerald   I'd like to see more emphasis on the wheels as...   Dec 8 2013, 08:22 PM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (Gerald @ Dec 8 2013, 04:22 PM) The...   Dec 8 2013, 08:58 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Gerald @ Dec 8 2013, 12:22 PM) I...   Dec 9 2013, 02:39 AM
- - Gerald   The very surface will be oxidized. I've mainly...   Dec 8 2013, 09:28 PM
- - serpens   Well you are certainly thinking well outside the b...   Dec 9 2013, 02:08 AM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (serpens @ Dec 9 2013, 03:08 AM) .....   Dec 9 2013, 11:00 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Gerald @ Dec 9 2013, 03:00 AM) If ...   Dec 9 2013, 04:05 PM
- - fredk   Update on wheel condition and diagnostics.   Dec 20 2013, 07:37 PM
- - jvandriel   One of the wheels on Sol 486. Jan van Driel   Dec 20 2013, 09:40 PM
- - atomoid   little punched-out shred in SOL488 image and the a...   Dec 21 2013, 02:43 AM
|- - dtolman   Seems a bit of the wear worry is striking a chord ...   Dec 21 2013, 06:03 PM
- - elakdawalla   Yeah, and any pause to inspect the wheels is clear...   Dec 21 2013, 10:40 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 21 2013, 10:40 P...   Dec 22 2013, 02:14 AM
- - Explorer1   If they are concerned enough to be thinking about ...   Dec 22 2013, 12:04 AM
- - Gerald   I think, it has been Zelenyikot, not quite sure. ...   Dec 22 2013, 02:29 AM
- - James Sorenson   Here is an animated gif of the MAHLI images. It...   Dec 22 2013, 06:28 AM
- - KingContrary   I was concerned when they went with the flashy (ta...   Dec 22 2013, 11:28 AM
- - James Sorenson   Stock steel wheels? Aftermarket rims? Steel wheels...   Dec 22 2013, 12:22 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (James Sorenson @ Dec 22 2013, 05:2...   Dec 22 2013, 04:34 PM
- - centsworth_II   It will be interesting to see if there are any des...   Dec 22 2013, 04:45 PM
- - Gerald   Four Sol 490 MAHLI images provide better coverage,...   Dec 22 2013, 09:46 PM
- - serpens   Almost sure to be some design changes. The space ...   Dec 22 2013, 10:42 PM
- - Gerald   The gender is correct. My humble try towards a ...   Dec 23 2013, 01:25 AM
- - James Sorenson   Cool! All of the MAHLI images of right side of...   Dec 23 2013, 04:13 AM
- - Harder   Today I read in a French space magazine that NASA ...   Dec 27 2013, 03:54 PM
- - brellis   Assuming there are energy expense issues related t...   Dec 27 2013, 08:50 PM
|- - TheAnt   QUOTE (brellis @ Dec 27 2013, 09:50 PM) A...   Dec 27 2013, 10:35 PM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (TheAnt @ Dec 27 2013, 11:35 PM) .....   Dec 28 2013, 09:47 PM
- - Explorer1   We all do; but the main science is the 'badlan...   Dec 27 2013, 09:05 PM
- - brellis   Does driving in general expend more energy than st...   Dec 27 2013, 09:47 PM
- - atomoid   chem-cam examination of wheel scratches? first i...   Dec 27 2013, 10:18 PM
- - Explorer1   Though they're correct in that this is not a d...   Dec 28 2013, 02:41 AM
- - serpens   Minor deviations from the planned track to 'sw...   Dec 28 2013, 10:07 PM
|- - TheAnt   Thank you Gerald, my interpretation of what was sa...   Dec 30 2013, 10:34 PM
- - elakdawalla   There are some really awesome ChemCam images of a ...   Jan 4 2014, 06:19 AM
- - Astro0   Here's a mosaic of those chemcam images. S...   Jan 4 2014, 07:18 AM
|- - eoincampbell   ...Great mosaic, surely a fix-it ticket 'till ...   Jan 4 2014, 07:50 AM
- - Mr Valiant   QUOTE (serpens @ Dec 7 2013, 09:42 PM) So...   Jan 4 2014, 02:03 PM
- - Zelenyikot   The wheelhole in colored ChemCam   Jan 4 2014, 03:56 PM
- - Gerald   To me the holes and tears tell the story, that sev...   Jan 4 2014, 04:59 PM
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