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ExoMars - Schiaparelli landing
Phil Stooke
post Aug 12 2016, 07:07 PM
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Starting a new topic here - hopefully that's OK! Clearly there will be a lot of action around this in the next weeks and months with descent images and HiRISE views of the hardware.

I thought I had posted this map earlier but apparently not. This shows the various landing ellipses in this area. The original plan was for an ellipse oriented NW-SE, but it changed with the different launch date and is now nearly E-W. Note that the ellipse shown in the recent ESA release is the envelope of all ellipses over a given launch period, but the actual landing ellipse for the given launch date is smaller. Opportunity's final landing ellipse is shown for comparison.

http://exploration.esa.int/mars/57445-exom...6-landing-site/

http://exploration.esa.int/mars/57446-exom...6-landing-site/

Phil

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PDP8E
post Nov 19 2016, 09:56 PM
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The Italian news agencies are running several stories today about the Schiaparelli EDM Lander.
I counted six articles -- all roughly the same
The craft was built in Italy for ESA. Thales Alenia Space is the spacecraft builder in coordination with Russia’s Roscosmos. The official ESA (interim?) crash report is due on November 24, 2016

Enrico Flamini, 'scientific coordinator' at the Italian Space Agency (ASI) relates what went wrong with the Schiaparelli EDM lander.
• He reports that the lander was ‘in wild oscillation’ on the parachute
• When the altimeter read 2000 meters, the gyros reported -10m (below the surface)
• He said the computer believed the gyros and eventually the lander crashed
• He also said that the stratospheric balloon drop tests of the whole system were never done, to save a million euros
• ASI wanted the Swedish Space Corporation to do the ‘stratospheric throws’, but ESA gave the work to a Romanian company that eventually didn’t do the job
• ESA then 'made itself content' with computer simulations of the landing provided by a British company

Here is one (of many links available)

Sciaparelli Crash http://www.quotidiano.net/tech/marte-schiaparelli-sonda-1.2690005



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JRehling
post Nov 20 2016, 03:38 AM
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As noted, this isn't a complete/consistent account. It seems to remain open as to whether software caused the crash or if the software simply responded futilely to an already hopeless situation.

Fluid dynamics are not trivial to model computationally, so using computer simulations to validate parachute descent seems like a bad option, but saying that now benefits, of course, from hindsight.
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mcaplinger
post Nov 20 2016, 03:51 AM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 19 2016, 07:38 PM) *
using computer simulations to validate parachute descent seems like a bad option...

The last time the US did actual flight-like testing of supersonic parachutes was for Viking (not counting the LDSD flights, which both failed.)


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Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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JRehling
post Nov 20 2016, 08:02 PM
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How to test systems that operate in the uncertain realm of fluid dynamics is an interesting proposition.

The Wright brothers tried to use an analytical approach to design propellers for an airplane, and realized that they couldn't do it. So, they started off with the design of ship propellers, which were a proven technology, and adjusted as best they could for the different parameters of air vs. water. It worked.

I see that the Schiaparelli parachute system evolved from the Huygens system. That also involves very different parameters, though certainly not as different as the Wright brothers' case.

Parachutes have worked for entry on Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Titan. It would seem like there's not much left to prove there.
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Posts in this topic
- Phil Stooke   ExoMars - Schiaparelli landing   Aug 12 2016, 07:07 PM
- - tolis   Whatever the cause of the mishap, I doubt that Exo...   Oct 25 2016, 08:57 PM
- - Art Martin   Reading that paper about the radar testing is a bi...   Oct 25 2016, 10:10 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Art Martin @ Oct 25 2016, 02:10 PM...   Oct 26 2016, 04:00 AM
|- - katodomo   QUOTE (Art Martin @ Oct 26 2016, 12:10 AM...   Oct 26 2016, 06:55 AM
- - Explorer1   $$$, (or in Schiaparelli's case...   Oct 26 2016, 03:46 AM
- - Gerald   Those event-triggered multi-threading systems are ...   Oct 26 2016, 08:10 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Gerald @ Oct 26 2016, 12:10 AM) Th...   Oct 26 2016, 02:17 PM
|- - JRehling   Just to clarify on the question of proving compute...   Oct 26 2016, 06:46 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (JRehling @ Oct 26 2016, 10:46 AM) ...   Oct 26 2016, 07:04 PM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Oct 26 2016, 04:17 PM...   Oct 27 2016, 11:08 AM
- - climber   I thought the radar comes on line only ONCE the ba...   Oct 26 2016, 09:45 AM
- - Art Martin   What a wonderful insight into the computer system ...   Oct 26 2016, 08:39 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Art Martin @ Oct 26 2016, 12:39 PM...   Oct 26 2016, 08:50 PM
|- - katodomo   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Oct 26 2016, 10:50 PM...   Oct 27 2016, 12:43 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (katodomo @ Oct 27 2016, 04:43 AM) ...   Oct 27 2016, 04:29 PM
- - PDP8E   I agree with mcaplinger: Landing on Mars should no...   Oct 26 2016, 09:00 PM
- - siravan   I doubt that the primary problem was radar, as it ...   Oct 26 2016, 11:27 PM
- - PDP8E   Here is my timeline of what was supposed to happen...   Oct 27 2016, 05:30 AM
- - Explorer1   That would be a good theory, but the CTX image sho...   Oct 27 2016, 07:03 AM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Oct 27 2016, 09:03 AM)...   Oct 27 2016, 09:11 AM
- - Decepticon   Out of curiosity did the test lander fail before o...   Oct 27 2016, 07:10 AM
- - Gerald   I'd think, they'll "simply" fix ...   Oct 27 2016, 01:25 PM
- - Explorer1   HiRISE images out : http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/n...   Oct 27 2016, 04:20 PM
|- - JRehling   That is definitely a strange streak. Maybe that...   Oct 27 2016, 05:30 PM
- - Hungry4info   It could be that a pressurised tank was let free i...   Oct 27 2016, 08:30 PM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Oct 27 2016, 08:30 P...   Oct 28 2016, 05:58 AM
- - marsophile   http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/figures/PIA21130_...   Oct 28 2016, 12:06 AM
|- - Steve G   QUOTE (marsophile @ Oct 27 2016, 05:06 PM...   Oct 29 2016, 02:05 PM
- - marsophile   This is a comparison of the CTX and HIRISE image...   Oct 28 2016, 01:36 AM
- - Hungry4info   There's also no signs in the CTX of the rather...   Oct 28 2016, 01:38 AM
- - xflare   Little snippets of information still coming out, o...   Oct 28 2016, 07:37 AM
- - Phil Stooke   It is a resolution issue, but I don't agree th...   Oct 29 2016, 04:28 PM
- - tolis   Could someone cognisant speculate on how hydrazine...   Oct 29 2016, 06:56 PM
- - Explorer1   MSL's hazcam showed the skycrane explosion as ...   Oct 29 2016, 08:08 PM
- - Gerald   First, one needs to know the exact chemical. Accor...   Oct 29 2016, 08:36 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Gerald @ Oct 29 2016, 12:36 PM) Ac...   Oct 29 2016, 09:25 PM
- - Gerald   I should have remembered that from a few days befo...   Oct 30 2016, 04:58 PM
- - Explorer1   Colour HiRISE imagery released: http://www.esa.int...   Nov 3 2016, 06:24 PM
- - nogal   Here is a refreshed version of the Schiaparelli KM...   Nov 4 2016, 09:05 PM
- - PDP8E   Here is the HiRise color image of the Schiaparelli...   Nov 5 2016, 03:08 AM
- - PDP8E   ESA says in the article cited below, that the inve...   Nov 6 2016, 04:12 PM
- - marsophile   Similar information in this new BBC report: http:...   Nov 8 2016, 07:12 AM
- - nogal   Here is an interesting article from ESA on a new m...   Nov 9 2016, 06:13 PM
- - PDP8E   The Italian news agencies are running several stor...   Nov 19 2016, 09:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Nov 19 2016, 01:56 PM) • W...   Nov 20 2016, 02:47 AM
|- - JRehling   As noted, this isn't a complete/consistent acc...   Nov 20 2016, 03:38 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 19 2016, 07:38 PM) ...   Nov 20 2016, 03:51 AM
|- - JRehling   How to test systems that operate in the uncertain ...   Nov 20 2016, 08:02 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 20 2016, 12:02 PM) ...   Nov 20 2016, 11:30 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 20 2016, 03:30 PM...   Nov 21 2016, 08:28 PM
- - tolis   It would also be interesting to know how the finan...   Nov 20 2016, 08:36 AM
|- - MahFL   Shouldn't the title of the topic be changed to...   Nov 20 2016, 05:05 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (MahFL @ Nov 20 2016, 09:05 AM) Sho...   Nov 20 2016, 06:34 PM
- - Explorer1   Looks like it was the IMU being saturated, confusi...   Nov 23 2016, 06:41 PM
- - marsophile   http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-380826...   Nov 24 2016, 03:04 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (marsophile @ Nov 23 2016, 08:04 PM...   Nov 24 2016, 01:00 PM
|- - marsophile   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 24 2016, 06:00 AM) ...   Nov 26 2016, 02:36 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (marsophile @ Nov 25 2016, 06:36 PM...   Nov 26 2016, 03:20 PM
|- - JRehling   Yes, three beams at the vertices of an equilateral...   Nov 26 2016, 06:42 PM
- - PDP8E   ESA has told us that they have simulated the fault...   Nov 25 2016, 12:35 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (PDP8E @ Nov 24 2016, 07:35 PM) ESA...   Nov 27 2016, 02:31 AM
- - mcaplinger   AFAIK, typical flight control software doesn't...   Nov 25 2016, 04:40 PM
- - PDP8E   I think the murky picture will finally emerge when...   Nov 26 2016, 09:17 PM
- - siravan   There is a limit of the number of such sanity chec...   Nov 27 2016, 12:53 PM
- - nogal   ESA has just announced that the Schiaparelli landi...   May 24 2017, 01:45 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (nogal @ May 24 2017, 05:45 AM) A r...   May 24 2017, 07:16 PM
- - Explorer1   It always does. Just like Mars Observer and the me...   May 24 2017, 09:34 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ May 24 2017, 01:34 PM)...   May 24 2017, 09:45 PM
- - Explorer1   Oops, yes. Looking at the report, I note that they...   May 24 2017, 09:50 PM
- - PDP8E   As mentioned upstream in the thread, a few overrid...   May 25 2017, 06:36 AM
- - Paolo   it turns out Schiaparelli finally did provide a li...   Sep 14 2018, 05:46 PM
|- - mcmcmc   QUOTE (Paolo @ Sep 14 2018, 06:46 PM) it ...   Nov 20 2018, 10:21 AM
- - Phil Stooke   The Schiaparelli parachute has shifted a bit in th...   May 12 2019, 10:15 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Here's the full set of available images of the...   May 13 2019, 06:59 PM
- - JRehling   I think all future flight logic systems can WLOG r...   May 14 2019, 02:13 AM
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