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Future Venus Missions
Phil Stooke
post Jul 1 2005, 01:30 AM
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Oh well, might as well start that new topic since it's already well advanced in the Juno area...

My perspective on landers is as follows. All the landers we've had so far were dropped blind onto an essentially unknown surface. Any future landers can be targeted for specific terrains. It really is not true that we have had representative landings. Even a descent image or two, a panoramic photo plus a bit of surface composition, from a simple Venera-class lander just updated a bit, would be useful if we could put several down at well chosen targets. My choices would be:

Examples of the main plains units (smooth, fractured, ridged)

tesserae

high elevation radar-bright tesserae

large fresh lava flow unit ('fluctus')

crater dark parabola

crater ejecta outflow unit

dunes area.

And I have always assumed, rightly or wrongly, that it would be relatively easy to put these down, so they ought to be fairly inexpensive as planetary landers go.

Phil


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vjkane
post Jun 4 2018, 05:09 PM
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Venus Landed Platform Working Group

NASA has convened a Venus Landed Platform Working Group to assess high priority science investigations that are needed on the surface of Venus. Topic areas include Venus surface geology and geochemistry, atmospheric chemistry and dynamics, interior processes, and surface-atmosphere interactions. This includes investigations that may be enabled by new technology approaches, such as extended duration landers via active cooling or high temperature electronics, or using surface mobility. Individuals who would like to suggest important science investigations should please send a short description of the science question being addressed, the measurements required to answer the science question, and key technical requirements such as measurement duration or mobility requirements. Please send this input to the following individuals:

Martha Gilmore, mgilmore@wesleyan.edu
Natasha Johnson, natasha.m. johnson@nasa.gov
Walter Kiefer, kiefer@lpi.usra.edu
Jonathan Sauder, jonathan.sauder@jpl.nasa.gov

The Working Group’s first meeting begins on June 19.


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JRehling
post Feb 12 2019, 07:33 PM
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This has been online for months now, and I'm just taking a look.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-018-0528-z

Very exciting plans… but of all the proposed missions and architectures, not many are on a solid path towards implementation. The Indian orbiter seems likely. Otherwise, we have Venus as being no better than second in line for a New Frontiers mission and the Envision orbiter (which would be a grand all-purposes Venus orbiter) one of three candidates for a future ESA mission.
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vjkane
post Feb 14 2019, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 12 2019, 11:33 AM) *
This has been online for months now, and I'm just taking a look.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-018-0528-z

Very exciting plans… but of all the proposed missions and architectures, not many are on a solid path towards implementation. The Indian orbiter seems likely. Otherwise, we have Venus as being no better than second in line for a New Frontiers mission and the Envision orbiter (which would be a grand all-purposes Venus orbiter) one of three candidates for a future ESA mission.

The Indian orbiter will carry a number of instruments, but it appears to have some severe limitations on payload mass and data rates.

The proposed ESA EnVision radar and infrared mapping mission wouldn't launch until the early 2030s if selected. It is facing severe cost and mass limitations. NASA is investigating whether it could provide the major radar mapping instrument.

The Venera-D joint Russian (lead) & US lander and orbiter could fly in the mid-2020s, but Russia is strapped for cash.

That leaves the two Discovery missions to be selected (as I remember) in 2021 for flight in the mid and late 2020s as the only other opportunity.


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JRehling
post Feb 15 2019, 06:53 AM
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It's interesting to me that EnVision and VOX both propose the same instrument to probe emissivity in the IR, as does the Discovery proposal VERITAS. I think that Venus Express' PFS instrument would have returned some of the same value, except that it failed and returned no data at all (the Wikipedia page erroneously reports that it did, probably a hasty editor converting original plans into the past tense after the mission ended). In a nutshell, this is similar, for Venus, to what VIMS on Cassini accomplished at Titan, making use of haze-penetrating bands to observe the surface. It would be great to have an orbiter in a low circular orbit provide this or a resolution of radar superior to that of Magellan or, as both EnVision and VOX propose, both.

It seems not impossible that VOX or another Venus mission could be the second or third next New Frontiers mission, which looks like the 2030s, as would be EnVision.

The Discovery missions have seemingly chosen every conceivable non-Venus mission that anyone can propose with Venus almost inevitably getting to the front of the queue eventually. Proposals for the next Discovery missions are due at the end of this month. If VERITAS were chosen, that could likely knock EnVision and VOX down in value, and make VICI a candidate for a future New Frontiers mission in the 2030s.
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vjkane
post Mar 22 2019, 12:35 AM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 14 2019, 11:53 PM) *
It's interesting to me that EnVision and VOX both propose the same instrument to probe emissivity in the IR, as does the Discovery proposal VERITAS. I think that Venus Express' PFS instrument would have returned some of the same value, except that it failed and returned no data at all (the Wikipedia page erroneously reports that it did, probably a hasty editor converting original plans into the past tense after the mission ended). In a nutshell, this is similar, for Venus, to what VIMS on Cassini accomplished at Titan, making use of haze-penetrating bands to observe the surface. It would be great to have an orbiter in a low circular orbit provide this or a resolution of radar superior to that of Magellan or, as both EnVision and VOX propose, both.

It seems not impossible that VOX or another Venus mission could be the second or third next New Frontiers mission, which looks like the 2030s, as would be EnVision.

The Discovery missions have seemingly chosen every conceivable non-Venus mission that anyone can propose with Venus almost inevitably getting to the front of the queue eventually. Proposals for the next Discovery missions are due at the end of this month. If VERITAS were chosen, that could likely knock EnVision and VOX down in value, and make VICI a candidate for a future New Frontiers mission in the 2030s.

A German lab has been developing an IR emissivity instrument for over a decade or so. They have done extensive work on the instrument development and on interpreting the multispectral results in terms of composition. This instrument has been included on every post-Venus Express mission that I know of except possible the planned Indian mission.


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vjkane
post Mar 24 2019, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 21 2019, 04:35 PM) *
A German lab has been developing an IR emissivity instrument for over a decade or so. They have done extensive work on the instrument development and on interpreting the multispectral results in terms of composition. This instrument has been included on every post-Venus Express mission that I know of except possible the planned Indian mission.

Here's a link to an LPSC 2019 abstract:

VEM


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Posts in this topic
- Phil Stooke   Future Venus Missions   Jul 1 2005, 01:30 AM
- - tasp   I think you need a capacitor to make a radio. And...   Jul 17 2009, 03:00 AM
|- - siravan   QUOTE (tasp @ Jul 16 2009, 11:00 PM) ...t...   Jul 17 2009, 03:16 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (tasp @ Jul 16 2009, 11:00 PM) I th...   Jul 17 2009, 03:37 PM
- - Paolo   Conference on Venera-D (sorry, link in Russian onl...   Jul 17 2009, 05:46 AM
- - Ulysses   Some news from the BBC: QUOTE Densely clouded in ...   Oct 7 2009, 05:38 PM
- - peter59   Venus Climate Orbiter "PLANET-C" has new...   Oct 23 2009, 10:27 AM
- - Hungry4info   I thought they renamed their spacecraft after laun...   Oct 23 2009, 01:03 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Oct 23 2009, 09:03 A...   Oct 23 2009, 05:50 PM
- - Paolo   Thanks to the "exuberant" performance of...   Oct 24 2009, 10:32 AM
- - Paolo   A few updates on Venera D from the Lavochkin site ...   Nov 26 2009, 07:44 PM
|- - punkboi   Akatsuki (and IKAROS solar sail) launch date set: ...   Mar 4 2010, 10:17 PM
- - Paolo   There is a nice article on SAGE in Air & Space...   Sep 28 2010, 09:15 PM
- - colin_wilson   Updates on the Russian Venera-D mission: There is...   Nov 1 2011, 01:03 PM
|- - tedstryk   I recently did a write-up on it. http://planetary...   Nov 1 2011, 06:52 PM
|- - B Bernatchez   The article mentions that the operational life wil...   Dec 31 2011, 02:15 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (B Bernatchez @ Dec 30 2011, 06:15 ...   Dec 31 2011, 05:56 AM
|- - JRehling   To reply to the lander posts from December, I...   Sep 21 2012, 06:20 PM
- - ncc1701d   How long until the technology from TanDEM-X and Te...   Sep 20 2012, 10:38 PM
- - machi   Missions for high resolution (1-10 meters) radar i...   Sep 21 2012, 04:43 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (machi @ Sep 21 2012, 09:43 AM) Mis...   Sep 22 2012, 12:47 AM
- - dtolman   Haven't seen it mentioned here but the Venera ...   Mar 13 2013, 02:24 PM
- - colin_wilson   Hi - You may be interested to see this paper des...   Jul 30 2013, 10:52 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Thanks for posting that. Phil   Jul 30 2013, 01:36 PM
- - TheAnt   Venus landsailing rover, a proposal and study of t...   Aug 26 2013, 05:42 PM
- - Explorer1   Now that is an original idea, and it actually look...   Aug 27 2013, 02:57 AM
|- - Chmee   Yes, very original idea! However, having both...   Aug 27 2013, 03:32 PM
- - vjkane   Chmee - Good point. I also didn't see much ab...   Aug 29 2013, 06:07 AM
- - Explorer1   Well the Venera missions did much of the pioneerin...   Aug 29 2013, 07:11 AM
- - 0101Morpheus   Here is a recent article on how a Venus mission ca...   Dec 9 2013, 06:06 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (0101Morpheus @ Dec 9 2013, 07:06 P...   Dec 9 2013, 06:57 PM
- - JRehling   In the past two years, some various news and non-n...   Jan 5 2015, 07:44 PM
|- - vjkane   I think that we can expect several NASA Discovery ...   Jan 6 2015, 06:01 AM
|- - JRehling   Another look at the quality of Venus data: The is...   Jan 12 2015, 08:39 PM
|- - katodomo   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 6 2015, 07:01 AM) The...   Jan 12 2015, 09:03 PM
|- - Holder of the Two Leashes   QUOTE (katodomo @ Jan 12 2015, 03:03 PM) ...   Jan 12 2015, 11:45 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (katodomo @ Jan 12 2015, 01:03 PM) ...   Jan 13 2015, 05:05 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Better topography is high on many lists for desire...   Jan 13 2015, 02:16 PM
- - stevesliva   Saw this today in AWST: Semibouyant Aircraft Could...   Jul 9 2015, 09:59 PM
|- - JRehling   The next slate of Discovery mission candidates has...   Oct 2 2015, 04:07 PM
- - ZLD   Won't probably happen due to the constraints o...   Oct 2 2015, 05:43 PM
- - ngunn   I found a little more about DAVINCI on the AAAS we...   Oct 2 2015, 06:25 PM
- - elakdawalla   I have the following tidbit of additional informat...   Oct 2 2015, 08:18 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Oct 2 2015, 10:18 PM...   Oct 3 2015, 01:20 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Paolo @ Oct 3 2015, 05:20 AM) why ...   Oct 3 2015, 04:04 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (vjkane @ Oct 3 2015, 06:04 PM) The...   Oct 5 2015, 07:39 AM
|- - JRehling   It's curious that the landing sites already vi...   Oct 5 2015, 04:06 PM
- - scalbers   As a comparison I wonder how VERITAS radar would c...   Oct 2 2015, 09:41 PM
|- - JRehling   I think we can expect roughly a 4x improvement in ...   Oct 2 2015, 10:23 PM
|- - machi   QUOTE (scalbers @ Oct 2 2015, 11:41 PM) A...   Oct 3 2015, 10:58 AM
- - scalbers   If this is a spherical probe we could hope for ful...   Oct 2 2015, 10:34 PM
- - Explorer1   Maybe it won't be a conventional transfer? Per...   Oct 3 2015, 03:31 PM
- - HSchirmer   Ok, so I just looked over the recent posts about a...   Oct 3 2015, 06:24 PM
- - ZLD   I'd be highly interested to see this seriously...   Oct 3 2015, 08:12 PM
- - ngunn   I like the idea of using a phase change to drive r...   Oct 3 2015, 08:28 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 3 2015, 09:28 PM) I li...   Oct 5 2015, 04:52 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Oct 5 2015, 08:52 AM) ...   Jan 11 2017, 05:09 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Oct 5 2015, 12:52 PM) ...   Jan 13 2017, 02:33 PM
- - HSchirmer   Ok, following up on earlier idea about a Venus pro...   Oct 4 2015, 01:26 AM
- - vjkane   There's a blog post with additional informatio...   Oct 4 2015, 05:07 AM
|- - JRehling   Great writeup, Van, as always!   Oct 5 2015, 06:12 PM
- - xflare   Well, the only hope for a Venus mission in the nex...   Jan 11 2017, 08:11 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (xflare @ Jan 11 2017, 12:11 AM) We...   Jan 11 2017, 05:14 PM
- - vjkane   I'm listening to Jim Green's program updat...   Jan 11 2017, 05:05 PM
- - JRehling   Latest Venus mission news: There was a selection ...   Jan 10 2018, 05:37 AM
- - hendric   Interesting article about future missions and capa...   Feb 13 2018, 07:24 PM
- - vjkane   The EnVision Venus mapping mission was just select...   May 7 2018, 03:35 PM
|- - JRehling   Venus exploration is at an interesting crossroads,...   May 27 2018, 06:37 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ May 27 2018, 10:37 AM) ...   May 28 2018, 03:11 PM
|- - JRehling   That's right, and more precisely, that is the ...   Jun 3 2018, 06:01 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 3 2018, 10:01 AM) T...   Jun 4 2018, 04:37 PM
- - vjkane   Venus Landed Platform Working Group NASA has conv...   Jun 4 2018, 05:09 PM
|- - JRehling   This has been online for months now, and I'm j...   Feb 12 2019, 07:33 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 12 2019, 11:33 AM) ...   Feb 14 2019, 08:07 PM
|- - JRehling   It's interesting to me that EnVision and VOX b...   Feb 15 2019, 06:53 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 14 2019, 11:53 PM) ...   Mar 22 2019, 12:35 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 21 2019, 04:35 PM) A ...   Mar 24 2019, 02:56 PM
|- - JRehling   A nice summary! I've seen other write-ups ...   Mar 24 2019, 04:19 PM
- - hendric   Our company recently hosted Dr Jean Anne Incorvia ...   Mar 18 2019, 03:18 PM
- - stevesliva   You were right to ask about SiC. The MRAM junctio...   Mar 18 2019, 05:50 PM
- - hendric   Probably some quantum tunnel magic I suppose. The...   Mar 18 2019, 06:19 PM
- - Steve5304   Just read the Russians gave agreen light and will ...   Apr 3 2019, 03:33 AM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (Steve5304 @ Apr 3 2019, 05:33 AM) ...   Apr 3 2019, 05:26 AM
- - bobik   The Phase II Report of the Venera-D Joint Science ...   Apr 3 2019, 08:35 AM
|- - Steve5304   QUOTE (bobik @ Apr 3 2019, 09:35 AM) The ...   Apr 3 2019, 07:38 PM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (Steve5304 @ Apr 3 2019, 11:38 AM) ...   Jul 3 2019, 09:50 PM
- - Paolo   in today's Nature: Venus is Earth’s evil twin ...   Jun 5 2019, 04:41 PM
- - atomoid   new Wired article on the LLISSE is interesting onc...   Oct 24 2019, 11:41 PM
- - tanjent   https://www.space.com/possible-nasa-venus-f...ip-m...   Nov 20 2019, 06:15 PM
|- - JRehling   Interesting timing, given that three Discovery pro...   Nov 21 2019, 04:05 AM
|- - rlorenz   <personal opinion only> Despite being a prop...   Nov 24 2019, 03:29 AM
|- - JRehling   Your opinions are gold, Ralph – very informative. ...   Nov 27 2019, 04:54 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 23 2019, 07:29 PM) ...   Nov 29 2019, 06:22 PM
- - tanjent   I don't recall any precedent for gathering tog...   Nov 21 2019, 10:26 AM
- - antipode   Ill second that, but... ...What would be the most...   Nov 28 2019, 10:34 PM
- - scalbers   What's the story with disulfur oxide as a poss...   Nov 29 2019, 12:51 AM
- - vjkane   QUOTE (scalbers @ Nov 28 2019, 04:51 PM) ...   Nov 29 2019, 06:17 PM
- - JRehling   The OSSO abstract and CUVE proposal are both very ...   Nov 29 2019, 10:11 PM
- - rlorenz   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 29 2019, 05:11 PM) ...   Nov 29 2019, 11:13 PM
- - JRehling   Until the other day, I had assumed that the DAVINC...   Feb 22 2020, 04:16 PM
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