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The Geology of Jezero Crater, Observations & Findings
nprev
post Feb 24 2021, 01:41 AM
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This thread is for those rockhounds among us to discuss the new terrain we'll see as Perseverance scoots around her new home. Let's get dirty & technical! laugh.gif


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Andreas Plesch
post Mar 9 2021, 02:29 AM
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There are sedimentologists specializing in landscape evolution and numerical modeling, see for example https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...1002/jgrf.20031 . Consequently, there are a large number of models, based on diffusion or advection concepts. Unfortunately, I am not such a modeler and do not have that insight. My inclination would be to treat lower gravity similar to a change in slope both acting on the erosional effect at the river base in similar ways. Slope is just one parameter besides flow rate, sediment load or potentially tectonic uplift or subsidence.

With that in mind I would expect that 0.38g would require a much steeper slope for a stream to develop similar erosional characteristics, other parameters being equal (which would be difficult to establish). The 2km relief over 100km intuitively feels rather steep and it should be possible to find longitudinal river profiles of similar length, for a direct comparison. A main difference is that the profile does not look like a textbook river profile on earth which has a steep initial gradient, an intermediate section, and a very gentle final gradient before entering a base line (a lake or ocean) which is considered an equilibrium profile where erosion at the source and aggradation at the sink are in balance.

I suspect that there have been attempts to understand such profiles on Mars, after the idea of an early wet history was getting (more?) widely accepted.

Looking more closely along the stream, there are what could be rather short tributaries, and perhaps drainage from the Hargraves crater region to the north.

Proposing a secondary inlet at the northern crater rim clearly requires some interpretation since it would be not very well preserved. I do think there are markers of channeling and meandering further upstream which seem to connect to it.

[edit] ah Thanks serpens, yes that is what I see as well. It is just not much of a system of tributaries.


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serpens
post Mar 9 2021, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Mar 9 2021, 03:29 AM) *
....It is just not much of a system of tributaries.

While the catchment as it stands can be reasonably constrained, as HSchirmer alludes to the area has been subject to tectonic activity, cratering and erosion that makes the accurate assessment of the ancient drainage area and tributary flows challenging to say the least. While there are traces of the tributaries much has been erased. As I understand it the mineralogy of the Northern and Southern deltas vary, reflecting the mineralogy of the two separate catchment areas. All in all it is a pretty impressive drainage area which I suspect would have hosted an extensive tributary network.
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HSchirmer
post Mar 9 2021, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 9 2021, 02:36 PM) *
While the catchment as it stands can be reasonably constrained, as HSchirmer alludes to the area has been subject to tectonic activity, cratering and erosion that makes the accurate assessment of the ancient drainage area and tributary flows challenging to say the least.

A follow up point - when tectonics tilts an entire river drainage network on 50, 200, 500, 1,000 km scale, you get paradoxes:
Example is the geology / biodiversity paradox for the US east coast: 500 MY old fish populations in 200 MY old rivers.

The main US coastal rivers: Hudson, Delaware, Susquehanna, Potomac, Cape Fear, Congaree & Savannah all run east from the Allegheny mountains to the Atlantic ocean. The Atlantic ocean opened up ~200 million years ago when Pangea broke up.
However, 500 MY old fossils of the same fish species that are in the river now indicates the rivers are over 500 million years old. At first glance would requires the east coast rivers to run UP HILL towards the central "Himalayan plateau" of Pangea.

The solution is that the river tributaries are older than the river & ocean they currently drain to, the large main stems have reversed course.
All the large east coast rivers USED to be small header tributaries that drained west to the proto-Mississippi.
Once the Atlantic opened, they had a steeper gradient heading east, which allowed quick erosion to gorges, which cut back to the west and captured more and more feeder rivers and streams, which accelerated erosion...
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/River-n..._fig1_327653964

Conversely, as the old western-draining network lost tributaries, reduced flow leads to silting up, which slows flow, dropping even more sediment: you get a series of lakes & wetlands, rising water levels, and eventually the water level over-tops the watershed divide and begins flowing east to the Atlantic instead of west to the Mississippi.

Repeat that process a few times for Jezro, add in 2 possible ocean shorelines, and you've got an idea of the scope of the question!
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Posts in this topic
- nprev   The Geology of Jezero Crater   Feb 24 2021, 01:41 AM
- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 24 2021, 02:41 AM) Thi...   Feb 24 2021, 01:51 AM
- - dougkeenan   Is it indeed "Geology" and not "Are...   Feb 24 2021, 02:13 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (dougkeenan @ Feb 24 2021, 03:13 AM...   Feb 24 2021, 02:31 AM
- - Phil Stooke   This has been a discussion since the 1960s. I rem...   Feb 24 2021, 02:52 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 24 2021, 03:52 A...   Feb 24 2021, 03:32 AM
|- - Pando   QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Feb 23 2021, 07:32 PM)...   Feb 24 2021, 04:41 AM
- - Don1   Some resources: A recent USGS geological map of t...   Feb 24 2021, 03:11 AM
|- - Eutectic   QUOTE (Don1 @ Feb 23 2021, 09:11 PM) Some...   Feb 24 2021, 09:48 AM
|- - JRehling   For now, we have a mission that'll be explorin...   Feb 24 2021, 05:00 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 24 2021, 05:00 PM) ...   Feb 24 2021, 08:06 PM
|- - JRehling   What we see now in the near distance is not though...   Feb 24 2021, 09:55 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 24 2021, 09:55 PM) ...   Feb 25 2021, 12:48 AM
- - stevesliva   Because this forum is now old enough to drive, the...   Feb 24 2021, 04:32 AM
- - nprev   ....aaaand, were done with the pedantry. Let...   Feb 24 2021, 07:16 AM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 24 2021, 07:16 AM) ......   Feb 24 2021, 07:34 AM
- - serpens   The consensus seems to be that the crater floor wa...   Feb 25 2021, 02:16 AM
|- - JRehling   One detail in the Sol 3 panorama that's especi...   Feb 25 2021, 04:29 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 25 2021, 04:29 PM) ...   Feb 25 2021, 06:15 PM
- - Andreas Plesch   Delta erosion At distances of a few hundered mete...   Feb 26 2021, 09:44 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Feb 26 2021, 10:4...   Feb 26 2021, 11:37 PM
- - serpens   Good post Andreas. The isolated hills have been n...   Feb 27 2021, 12:00 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (serpens @ Feb 27 2021, 12:00 AM) I...   Feb 27 2021, 12:41 AM
|- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Feb 26 2021, 07:41 PM)...   Feb 27 2021, 02:20 AM
- - serpens   The possibility that the mafic floor unit is sedim...   Feb 27 2021, 03:28 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (serpens @ Feb 27 2021, 03:28 AM) T...   Feb 27 2021, 01:33 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Feb 27 2021, 01:33 PM)...   Feb 27 2021, 11:47 PM
- - pioneer   Does anyone know which rock Perseverance will exam...   Feb 27 2021, 04:47 PM
- - Phil Stooke   No news on that yet. Things are just ramping up a...   Feb 27 2021, 05:22 PM
- - Marz   This image was cropped from the mastcam-z pan. ...   Feb 27 2021, 05:38 PM
|- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (Marz @ Feb 27 2021, 12:38 PM) Th...   Feb 27 2021, 07:24 PM
||- - Marz   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Feb 27 2021, 02:2...   Feb 27 2021, 07:33 PM
||- - Steve5304   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Feb 27 2021, 08:2...   Feb 28 2021, 05:11 AM
||- - JRehling   Opportunity and Curiosity both found rocks that we...   Feb 28 2021, 05:35 AM
||- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Steve5304 @ Feb 27 2021, 09:11 PM)...   Mar 4 2021, 10:13 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Marz @ Feb 27 2021, 06:38 PM) This...   Feb 27 2021, 08:58 PM
- - Pando   While these "holey" rocks appear light i...   Feb 27 2021, 07:30 PM
- - Blue Sky   If the crater floor is covered by ash or other vol...   Feb 27 2021, 07:39 PM
|- - JRehling   It's virtually certain that some of the materi...   Feb 27 2021, 09:20 PM
|- - MahFL   QUOTE (Blue Sky @ Feb 27 2021, 07:39 PM) ...   Feb 28 2021, 06:39 AM
- - Andreas Plesch   Yes, these lineations may have formed from aeolian...   Feb 28 2021, 02:08 AM
|- - JRehling   Great look at the layering in the outlier, Andreas...   Feb 28 2021, 02:42 AM
|- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 27 2021, 09:42 PM) ...   Feb 28 2021, 04:14 AM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Feb 28 2021, 04:1...   Feb 28 2021, 10:42 PM
|- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (serpens @ Feb 28 2021, 05:42 PM) T...   Mar 1 2021, 07:21 PM
- - Marz   this is a high-level description of the regional g...   Feb 28 2021, 09:42 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Marz @ Feb 28 2021, 09:42 PM) this...   Feb 28 2021, 10:58 PM
|- - SulliedGoon   If caves created by ancient running waters existed...   Mar 1 2021, 03:23 AM
- - HSchirmer   Hat tip to serpens for finding a paper about coast...   Mar 1 2021, 02:24 PM
- - serpens   Perhaps just coincidence but the pre-Tharsis high ...   Mar 1 2021, 09:19 PM
- - MarkL   A couple of things interest me here (inset of ESP_...   Mar 3 2021, 06:56 PM
- - atomoid   That seeming volcanic cone is quite distinct and i...   Mar 4 2021, 01:08 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (atomoid @ Mar 4 2021, 01:08 AM) He...   Mar 4 2021, 04:36 PM
|- - atomoid   ...That large image size is giving my eye-crossing...   Mar 4 2021, 10:10 PM
- - serpens   The cones are the product of aeolian erosion. The...   Mar 4 2021, 01:53 AM
|- - MarkL   QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 4 2021, 02:53 AM) Th...   Mar 4 2021, 03:34 AM
- - Blue Sky   The canyon at lower left in the picture in post #5...   Mar 4 2021, 03:54 AM
- - MarkL   Wouldn't that be one crazy vista? Imagine loo...   Mar 4 2021, 04:22 AM
- - Gladstoner   A portion of a possible traverse that would examin...   Mar 4 2021, 06:50 AM
|- - MahFL   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Mar 4 2021, 06:50 AM)...   Mar 4 2021, 08:31 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Mar 3 2021, 10:50 PM)...   Mar 4 2021, 09:55 PM
- - Gladstoner   Would also like to examine some of these up close:...   Mar 4 2021, 06:58 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Mar 4 2021, 06:58 AM)...   Mar 4 2021, 04:51 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Mar 4 2021, 06:58 AM)...   Mar 8 2021, 12:39 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 8 2021, 01:39 AM) I ...   Mar 8 2021, 11:58 PM
- - serpens   vjkane, Perseverance has four primary mission obje...   Mar 4 2021, 10:55 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 4 2021, 02:55 PM) vj...   Mar 5 2021, 12:24 AM
- - serpens   I thought the revised schedule was for launch of t...   Mar 5 2021, 12:47 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 4 2021, 04:47 PM) I ...   Mar 5 2021, 02:04 AM
- - Explorer1   One of the papers I read (can't find it now) i...   Mar 5 2021, 03:45 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Mar 4 2021, 07:45 PM) ...   Mar 5 2021, 05:28 AM
|- - MahFL   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 5 2021, 05:28 AM) ......   Mar 5 2021, 07:25 AM
||- - JRehling   One solution to this would be to fill about 3/4 (~...   Mar 5 2021, 10:06 AM
||- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 5 2021, 02:06 AM) O...   Mar 5 2021, 02:23 PM
||- - JRehling   Thanks for the full background, Van. It was this ...   Mar 5 2021, 04:23 PM
||- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 5 2021, 09:23 AM) Phi...   Mar 5 2021, 06:59 PM
||- - JRehling   I share the subjective feeling that Andreas indica...   Mar 5 2021, 08:44 PM
||- - vjkane   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Mar 5 2021, 10:59...   Mar 6 2021, 12:56 AM
||- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 5 2021, 07:56 PM) Fro...   Mar 6 2021, 02:01 AM
||- - vjkane   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Mar 5 2021, 06:01...   Mar 6 2021, 02:02 PM
|- - HSchirmer   RE: The Geology of Jezero Crater   Mar 5 2021, 12:08 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 5 2021, 05:28 AM) If ...   Mar 5 2021, 12:12 PM
- - serpens   I suspect that as with Curiosity there will be sig...   Mar 5 2021, 11:04 PM
- - HSchirmer   I found the timeline for Jezro in the press packag...   Mar 6 2021, 03:13 PM
- - tdemko   I’m not sure the emphasis is on the pre-lake depos...   Mar 6 2021, 10:59 PM
|- - JRehling   Good information, tdemko. In this case, it seems ...   Mar 7 2021, 12:29 AM
- - nprev   Should I just change the name of this thread to ...   Mar 7 2021, 11:31 AM
- - tdemko   Not sure if the question about experimental basin ...   Mar 8 2021, 02:04 PM
- - Andreas Plesch   The source of the sediments in the delta The (mai...   Mar 8 2021, 09:02 PM
|- - JRehling   With both respect and gratitude for the expertise ...   Mar 9 2021, 12:27 AM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 8 2021, 07:27 PM) W...   Mar 9 2021, 02:43 AM
- - serpens   Andreas, despite erosion there are obvious remnant...   Mar 9 2021, 01:17 AM
- - Andreas Plesch   There are sedimentologists specializing in landsca...   Mar 9 2021, 02:29 AM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (Andreas Plesch @ Mar 9 2021, 03:29...   Mar 9 2021, 02:36 PM
|- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 9 2021, 09:36 AM) Wh...   Mar 9 2021, 03:08 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (serpens @ Mar 9 2021, 02:36 PM) Wh...   Mar 9 2021, 03:30 PM
- - Andreas Plesch   I find myself agreeing with much of what the abstr...   Mar 9 2021, 02:54 AM
- - MarkL   Do we have any insight as to why the small deltaic...   Mar 9 2021, 10:20 AM
- - MahFL   QUOTE (MarkL @ Mar 9 2021, 10:20 AM) Do w...   Mar 9 2021, 11:22 AM
- - HSchirmer   QUOTE Do we have any insight as to why the small d...   Mar 9 2021, 12:14 PM
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