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The Geology of Jezero Crater, Observations & Findings
nprev
post Feb 24 2021, 01:41 AM
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This thread is for those rockhounds among us to discuss the new terrain we'll see as Perseverance scoots around her new home. Let's get dirty & technical! laugh.gif


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serpens
post Oct 16 2021, 11:35 PM
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From what we have seen of the delta front and Kodiak it seems to reflect delta growth into a lake under a stable flow regime with episodes of erosion reflecting dry periods and also a few periods of high intensity flow. My obviously deranged imagination pictures gently flowing river dominated deltas under cloudy skies at the edge of a choppy lake with an ocean visible to the East. In reality it was probably a more violent environment but I like the illusion.

Periodic high intensity flows transporting sizeable detritus both rounded and angular does not necessarily imply a desert flash flood or dry environment. It could reflect a gradual increase in flow to high intensity flood levels due to the progressive melting of abnormally large deposits of snow in the catchment or perhaps the collapse of obstructions at the crater inlet breach or the knickpoint further up the channel. Currently we are in the realm of hypothesis and dare I say imagination and Tim's last post highlights the fact that we have two plausible but opposed explanations for A2 from experts in the field although I don't believe they are mutually exclusive across the delta front.

For imagery of the watersheds try
https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.h...78.2144,20.7779
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JRehling
post Oct 17 2021, 03:37 PM
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Perhaps I'm wrong in associating wildly different phenomena with just one facet of similarity, but we've known for a long time that Mars had catastrophic, massive floods in its past, and then we had a long campaign of exploration that led us to discover and characterize these other kinds of water flow, due to climate, more typical of Earth, but should we then think of all of the water flow that took place in Jezero as the latter and not the former?

As Mars had (and has) massive deposits of crustal ice, this allowed volcanic activity to unleash massive floods that are endogenous in origin, not due to climate. Similarly, impact melt could accomplish the same result.

We know that the overall topography of Jezero was reworked by the rise of Syrtis Major to its immediate west. We moreover know from the eroded crater present on the delta that there was still significant impact cratering taking place after the time frame of the delta's formation; it's therefore plausible that as much or even (far?) more impact cratering took place during the time frame of the delta. The signs are abundant on Mars of lobate flows created by the impact melt of subsurface ice. For that matter, the kinetic (rather than thermal) result of an impact hitting a watershed would be yet another potential cause of catastrophic water flow.

It seems to me that it remains to be proven if any flash flooding was due to anything we'd associate with climate versus those two non-climate catastrophic scenarios.

In addition, we know that Mars has likely had cycles of axial tilt leading to climate changes wildly more catastrophic than what Earth has experienced which could have created climate epochs where ice would form locally, then other epochs in which there would be a lot of cumulative melt.

It seems to me that all of these and more are in play as potential explanations.
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tdemko
post Oct 17 2021, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Oct 17 2021, 10:37 AM) *
It seems to me that all of these and more are in play as potential explanations.


I completely agree. However, the well-organized delta foreset strata at Kodiak, and the organization of channels and lobes from the orbital imagery suggest that sustained, or at least seasonal, flows probably built a significant volume of the deltaic deposits.

On the other hand, the catastrophic events like you've mentioned can also be important in shaping the geomorphology of lakes, and can produce significant deposits in lake basin fills.

Here is one of my favorite examples, from Lake Tahoe in the USA. A huge landslide deposited giant blocks on the lake floor, but also created tsunami and seiche flows which formed fields and channels of antidune and cyclic steps deposits around the lake margin as they returned back into the lake as supercritical flows. The point of my previous posts was that the authors of the Jezero paper don't seem to be familiar with these types of deposits, or even recognize that supercritical sediment gravity flows would also be expected in the types of short, steep, coarse-grained delta deposits that have been seen in Kodiak.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/25...lifornia-Nevada
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Posts in this topic
- nprev   The Geology of Jezero Crater   Feb 24 2021, 01:41 AM
- - Andreas Plesch   I found this sol 119 Zcam image near the border to...   Jun 21 2021, 02:58 PM
- - serpens   Indicative of abrasive weathering creating ventifa...   Jun 27 2021, 03:01 AM
|- - JRehling   With a deep appreciation for the geological expert...   Jun 27 2021, 03:30 AM
||- - Greenish   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 26 2021, 11:30 PM) ...   Jun 28 2021, 02:12 AM
||- - Bill Harris   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 26 2021, 10:30 PM) ...   Aug 31 2021, 11:45 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (serpens @ Jun 27 2021, 03:01 AM) I...   Jun 27 2021, 03:13 PM
- - stevesliva   Maybe already covered here, but here's a picto...   Jun 27 2021, 05:07 PM
- - Explorer1   Sample collection briefing coming here in a few mi...   Sep 10 2021, 03:52 PM
- - Julius   Watched the update yesterday. Interesting find of...   Sep 11 2021, 11:41 AM
|- - Andreas Plesch   QUOTE (Julius @ Sep 11 2021, 06:41 AM) Wa...   Sep 11 2021, 03:39 PM
- - Bill Harris   Is a transcript of that briefing available yet? M...   Sep 11 2021, 03:38 PM
- - serpens   The first drill target was located in a depression...   Sep 12 2021, 06:42 AM
|- - Julius   [quote name='serpens' date='Sep 12 202...   Sep 12 2021, 09:02 AM
- - Bill Harris   It is going to be an interesting study to look at ...   Sep 12 2021, 09:08 AM
- - serpens   All rocks in Jezero should have an igneous provena...   Sep 12 2021, 11:53 AM
- - centsworth_II   One thing mentioned in the briefing was sharp-angl...   Sep 12 2021, 01:18 PM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Sep 12 2021, 08:18...   Sep 12 2021, 05:12 PM
- - serpens   The angular particles (clasts?) do indicate limite...   Sep 12 2021, 11:10 PM
- - Bill Harris   Although the vesicles increase Porosity, unless th...   Sep 12 2021, 11:59 PM
- - moustifouette   Hello, Some update from the ground. science A...   Oct 8 2021, 02:20 PM
|- - Bill Harris   QUOTE (moustifouette @ Oct 8 2021, 09:20 ...   Oct 12 2021, 07:32 PM
- - Julius   I am thinking it is more challenging for the Rover...   Oct 8 2021, 03:23 PM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (Julius @ Oct 8 2021, 10:23 AM) I a...   Oct 8 2021, 07:18 PM
|- - Bill Harris   QUOTE (tdemko @ Oct 8 2021, 02:18 PM) sni...   Oct 9 2021, 11:58 AM
- - serpens   Thanks for the link moustifouette (mosquito net). ...   Oct 8 2021, 11:00 PM
- - HSchirmer   There's a new paper on Kodiak? Jezero lake w...   Oct 9 2021, 11:20 AM
- - Bill Harris   Does anyone know the area of the area of the catch...   Oct 10 2021, 01:04 AM
- - serpens   Goudge and others estimate the catchment of the we...   Oct 10 2021, 01:39 AM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (serpens @ Oct 9 2021, 08:39 PM) Gi...   Oct 10 2021, 07:33 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (tdemko @ Oct 10 2021, 07:33 PM) I ...   Oct 15 2021, 02:54 AM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (serpens @ Oct 14 2021, 09:54 PM) I...   Oct 15 2021, 04:19 PM
- - Bill Harris   I have no doubt that the history of this site will...   Oct 10 2021, 07:40 AM
- - serpens   The download link at the end of the 'Science...   Oct 10 2021, 09:39 AM
- - Bill Harris   Do we have a feel for the flow velocities based on...   Oct 10 2021, 08:15 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 10 2021, 08:15 P...   Oct 12 2021, 08:53 AM
- - serpens   Supercritical flow, chute and pool, scour fill. I...   Oct 10 2021, 10:37 PM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (serpens @ Oct 10 2021, 05:37 PM) S...   Oct 11 2021, 02:10 AM
- - serpens   Thanks Tim. I think when I read that I made the er...   Oct 16 2021, 02:52 AM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (serpens @ Oct 15 2021, 09:52 PM) T...   Oct 16 2021, 06:34 PM
- - Bill Harris   We need to start thinking in terms of desert flash...   Oct 16 2021, 06:52 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 16 2021, 07:52 P...   Oct 17 2021, 06:03 PM
- - serpens   From what we have seen of the delta front and Kodi...   Oct 16 2021, 11:35 PM
|- - JRehling   Perhaps I'm wrong in associating wildly differ...   Oct 17 2021, 03:37 PM
|- - tdemko   QUOTE (JRehling @ Oct 17 2021, 10:37 AM) ...   Oct 17 2021, 04:12 PM
- - Bill Harris   Preface: let me suggest that I'm not going on...   Oct 18 2021, 01:55 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 18 2021, 01:55 A...   Oct 18 2021, 06:32 PM
- - serpens   After a long look at A1,2,3 over a glass of very n...   Oct 18 2021, 06:52 AM
- - Bill Harris   And Earth has stabilizing factors such as a large ...   Oct 18 2021, 10:12 PM
- - serpens   But given the increasing evidence, may have had wh...   Oct 18 2021, 11:02 PM
- - cIclops   Perseverance Rover Mission Update - Katie Stack Mo...   Oct 21 2021, 02:22 PM
- - cIclops   #AGU21 Press conference: Ten months of Perseveranc...   Dec 20 2021, 07:17 PM
|- - john_s   Lots of discussion of these results in the "F...   Dec 22 2021, 03:23 PM
|- - JRehling   There are many lunar craters with floors filled by...   Dec 22 2021, 08:43 PM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (john_s @ Dec 22 2021, 04:23 PM) .....   Dec 23 2021, 12:27 AM
|- - JRehling   This co-occurrence of igneous rocks, including oli...   Dec 24 2021, 06:32 PM
- - Bill Harris   Actually, John, the Arm-Waving and discussion of ...   Dec 22 2021, 08:26 PM
- - PDP8E   The floor of Gusev Crater that Spirit traversed wa...   Dec 22 2021, 10:36 PM
- - Bill Harris   Exactly, jrehling. Weathering of basalt can be ser...   Dec 25 2021, 04:46 AM
- - serpens   The olivine carbonate deposits cover a large area ...   Dec 25 2021, 10:23 PM
- - Julius   Serpentinisation leading to formation of carbonate...   Dec 26 2021, 10:22 AM
- - Bill Harris   I look at this akin to the Lost City carbonate mou...   Dec 26 2021, 07:49 PM
|- - JRehling   Something I hadn't previously appreciated is h...   Dec 27 2021, 06:54 PM
|- - Julius   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Dec 26 2021, 08:49 P...   Dec 28 2021, 03:21 PM
|- - JRehling   This is an informative take on the Nili Fossae reg...   Dec 28 2021, 07:31 PM
|- - Julius   QUOTE (JRehling @ Dec 28 2021, 08:31 PM) ...   Dec 28 2021, 09:47 PM
- - serpens   Rather than a one size fits all scenario for the f...   Dec 28 2021, 02:10 AM
|- - Julius   QUOTE (serpens @ Dec 28 2021, 03:10 AM) R...   Dec 28 2021, 03:01 PM
- - serpens   A bit more information on analysis of the purple r...   Feb 12 2022, 02:41 AM
|- - Bill Harris   QUOTE (serpens @ Feb 11 2022, 09:41 PM) A...   Feb 13 2022, 09:43 PM
- - moustifouette   A summary of first year findings: Jezero is igneou...   Feb 18 2022, 01:37 PM
- - serpens   The fact that the current floor of the crater is i...   Feb 19 2022, 11:11 PM
- - Bill Harris   Current literature: https://www.science.org/doi/...   Aug 26 2022, 06:20 PM
- - serpens   A couple more very interesting contributions. Som...   Aug 27 2022, 03:06 AM
- - Quetzalcoatl   Hi, Maybe we can add this one ? https://www.scie...   Aug 27 2022, 08:41 AM
- - Bill Harris   Good set of papers. Jezero crater has a long and...   Aug 27 2022, 04:04 PM
- - serpens   The models for the evolution of Séítah, Máaz etc a...   Aug 28 2022, 12:35 AM
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