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DART & HERA, NASA/ESA Asteroid Redirection Missions
nprev
post Nov 24 2021, 07:27 AM
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Surprised we didn't already have a thread. DART launched successfully at 0621 UTC today (23 Nov 21). Mission page here, encounter (as in collision) with small satellite of 65803 Didymos in late Sep/early Oct 2022.


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Explorer1
post Sep 27 2022, 02:45 PM
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Wow, those streamers, it looks quite catastrophic! Much more violent than the SCI on Ryugu, as expected!
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vikingmars
post Sep 27 2022, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 27 2022, 04:45 PM) *
Wow, those streamers, it looks quite catastrophic! Much more violent than the SCI on Ryugu, as expected!

Wow ! Yes: Dimorphos must be made of very loose material and may have been partially destroyed, if not entirely. We will see...
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mcaplinger
post Sep 27 2022, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 08:21 AM) *
Dimorphos must be made of very loose material and may have been partially destroyed, if not entirely.

Regardless of what the images look like, that seems very unlikely, at least if you believe "Spacecraft Geometry Effects on Kinetic Impactor Missions", Owen et al, https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/PSJ/ac8932/pdf

However, they did a ton of work and then at the end

QUOTE
It seems likely, based on observations
during the surface sampling in the OSIRIS-REx mission... that the weak material limit is
the most likely case. In fact, if Dimorphos’ surface is as weak
as that observed during the SCI experiment, it could be significantly
weaker than even the weak limit presented here.


I haven't read the paper in enough detail to know if their modeling is truly appropriate or just detailed but in an unrealistic way. But the spacecraft only had a mass of about 500 kg and Dimorphos is of order 10**7 more massive and DART wasn't going that fast.

On the other hand, I was thinking of this:

Han Solo: That's what I'm trying to tell you, kid; it ain't there... It's been totally blown away.


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Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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fredk
post Sep 27 2022, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 27 2022, 06:04 PM) *
Regardless of what the images look like, that seems very unlikely

My guess was also that it was extremely unlikely that Dimorphos could be destroyed. Then I did a spherical-cow/back-of-the-envelope calculation:

For mass 535 kg at 6.65 km/s, DART had kinetic energy of around 10^10 J.

For a radius of 80 m and density of around 1.86 g/cm^3 (as assumed in Owen etal), the gravitational binding energy of Dimorphos is -3/5 GM^2/R ~ -10^7 J.

So DART had ~1000 times as much kinetic energy as would be needed to completely disperse Dimorphos (ie to "rest at infinity"), ignoring any mechanical cohesion in the moon.

That was surprizingly high to me - I guess the point is gravity is weak and Dimorphos is small. Still, in reality that huge kinetic energy has to overcome mechanical cohesion and much of it will also go into heat, rather than overcoming gravitational potential energy. And of course much of the ejecta will greatly exceed escape velocity, so you're "overdispersing" a small amount of ejecta at the expense of "underdispersing" (or not dispersing at all) the rest.

So in the end the destruction (or not) of the moon is determined by the mechanical and thermal details, which presumably Owen etal have modeled sufficiently.
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mcaplinger
post Sep 27 2022, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE (fredk @ Sep 27 2022, 01:55 PM) *
I guess the point is gravity is weak and Dimorphos is small.

If you believe "REACTION OF DIMORPHOS' STRUCTURE TO THE DART IMPACT" https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2021/pdf/2041.pdf then only 2.5e-3 of the kinetic energy isn't dissipated inelastically. That's still more than the gravitational binding energy, but I suspect the real system is a lot more complicated than any of these models. The whole concept of gravitational binding energy is somewhat abstract and ignores how the energy would be transported through the body, other sources of cohesion, etc.

TBH, I'm still not quite sure how this mission came to be or if it really tells us anything practical about how to deflect asteroids, but it was cool smile.gif


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Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Posts in this topic
- nprev   DART & HERA   Nov 24 2021, 07:27 AM
- - Antdoghalo   Yay! We get to map two new objects for the pri...   Nov 24 2021, 11:54 PM
- - Explorer1   I remember watching Deep Impact live; what an expe...   Nov 25 2021, 12:15 AM
|- - JRehling   I had the thrilling good fortune to watch this lau...   Nov 25 2021, 02:14 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 24 2021, 09:14 PM) ...   Nov 25 2021, 04:18 AM
- - nprev   True, but we will get some science nevertheless, a...   Nov 25 2021, 03:43 AM
- - Marcin600   From NASA Twitter: 55 minutes into its flight, the...   Nov 25 2021, 10:29 PM
- - JohnVV   dose anyone have any news on any SPICE kernels for...   Nov 26 2021, 12:42 AM
- - Tom Tamlyn   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Nov 24 2021, 07:15 PM)...   Nov 26 2021, 03:40 AM
|- - TrappistPlanets   QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Nov 26 2021, 04:40 AM...   Nov 26 2021, 01:31 PM
- - nprev   Good idea, since they are indeed closely related t...   Nov 26 2021, 09:13 PM
- - monty python   So much international effort almost serendipitousl...   Nov 27 2021, 05:31 AM
- - Explorer1   I recall that Hera (originally called AIM) and DAR...   Nov 27 2021, 03:02 PM
|- - TrappistPlanets   what would be the highest resolution image possibl...   Nov 27 2021, 04:06 PM
- - Floyd   I assume you mean images from the LICIACube. Goog...   Nov 27 2021, 09:34 PM
|- - TrappistPlanets   QUOTE (Floyd @ Nov 27 2021, 10:34 PM) I a...   Nov 28 2021, 12:17 PM
- - bobik   Nice overview paper on ESA's Hera expedition.   Jul 20 2022, 08:16 AM
- - Explorer1   Didymos ahead in DRACO! Not much given they we...   Sep 8 2022, 04:31 PM
- - Explorer1   LICIACube has been released.   Sep 17 2022, 02:35 AM
- - Phil Stooke   https://twitter.com/JHUAPL/status/1572409029640716...   Sep 21 2022, 11:21 PM
- - jasedm   Fascinated to see the results from this mission - ...   Sep 22 2022, 09:35 AM
- - Explorer1   This brings me big memories of Deep Impact that su...   Sep 22 2022, 02:03 PM
- - jasedm   5 hours to go...... https://www.youtube.com/watch...   Sep 26 2022, 06:18 PM
- - Marcin600   Live Feed from NASA's DART Spacecraft on Appro...   Sep 26 2022, 09:13 PM
- - Marcin600   live   Sep 26 2022, 09:36 PM
- - Explorer1   Can't see the binary distinguished yet... but ...   Sep 26 2022, 09:37 PM
- - Marcin600   still tiny   Sep 26 2022, 09:43 PM
- - Marcin600   only artifacts?   Sep 26 2022, 10:06 PM
- - Hungry4info   On the stream they just mentioned that they're...   Sep 26 2022, 10:09 PM
- - fredk   Looks pretty convincing: 400% zoom with gamma twe...   Sep 26 2022, 10:12 PM
- - Marcin600   yes   Sep 26 2022, 10:27 PM
- - Explorer1   Target lock! Didymos is already looking irreg...   Sep 26 2022, 10:28 PM
- - Marcin600   things are speeding up   Sep 26 2022, 10:36 PM
- - Hungry4info   Didymos is now resolved.   Sep 26 2022, 10:40 PM
- - Marcin600   bigger   Sep 26 2022, 10:49 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Beginning to see possible structure on the termina...   Sep 26 2022, 10:55 PM
- - Marcin600   interesting shape, with a clearly protruding part ...   Sep 26 2022, 10:56 PM
- - nprev   Precision lock achieved!!!   Sep 26 2022, 10:56 PM
- - Marcin600   two craters (?) and a "constriction" (?)   Sep 26 2022, 11:03 PM
- - Phil Stooke   A bit more detail. The protrusion will probably r...   Sep 26 2022, 11:03 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Getting clearer... Phil   Sep 26 2022, 11:07 PM
- - Marcin600   craters (?)   Sep 26 2022, 11:08 PM
- - Marcin600   more craters (?)   Sep 26 2022, 11:12 PM
- - Phil Stooke   .....! Phil   Sep 26 2022, 11:14 PM
- - nprev   IMPACT. Absolutely incredible terminal images.   Sep 26 2022, 11:18 PM
- - fredk   The final full frame:   Sep 26 2022, 11:18 PM
- - nprev   RE: DART & HERA   Sep 26 2022, 11:20 PM
- - Explorer1   Wow! Takes me back to 14 years old.... And th...   Sep 26 2022, 11:22 PM
|- - CryptoEngineer   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 26 2022, 06:22 PM)...   Sep 26 2022, 11:40 PM
|- - monty python   QUOTE (CryptoEngineer @ Sep 26 2022, 06:4...   Sep 27 2022, 06:43 AM
- - Marcin600   Congratulations on a beautiful whack! :-) It w...   Sep 26 2022, 11:27 PM
- - fredk   The final partial frame: and it's approximate...   Sep 26 2022, 11:37 PM
- - Tom O'Reilly   What is that light "bar" on the lower le...   Sep 26 2022, 11:40 PM
|- - Marcin600   QUOTE (Tom O'Reilly @ Sep 27 2022, 01...   Sep 26 2022, 11:44 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This comparison has to be noted:   Sep 27 2022, 12:01 AM
|- - Tom O'Reilly   QUOTE (Marcin600 @ Sep 26 2022, 03:44 PM)...   Sep 27 2022, 02:28 AM
- - Marcin600   group portrait   Sep 26 2022, 11:41 PM
- - Explorer1   Top of a huge boulder, mostly in shadow? Press co...   Sep 26 2022, 11:42 PM
- - Hungry4info   Imaging of the DART impact plume from an Earth-bas...   Sep 27 2022, 12:19 AM
- - Explorer1   Fascinating fact from the presser: looks like the ...   Sep 27 2022, 12:32 AM
- - Marcin600   It seems to me that fragments of Didymos's sur...   Sep 27 2022, 12:33 AM
- - Hungry4info   Dimorphos mosaic (credit: zelario4)   Sep 27 2022, 12:55 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Nice view of the impact: https://twitter.com/fall...   Sep 27 2022, 03:36 AM
- - djellison   This is the best stack of images I could wrangle f...   Sep 27 2022, 06:25 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Since there are no other craters, I don't thin...   Sep 27 2022, 06:36 AM
|- - Marcin600   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 27 2022, 08:36 A...   Sep 27 2022, 08:30 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I think Ranger 9 was the only one people actually ...   Sep 27 2022, 07:05 AM
- - Brian Swift   PNGs of a few images and downloadable 1080p video ...   Sep 27 2022, 07:34 AM
- - xflare   That impact debris/plume sequence is extraordinary...   Sep 27 2022, 07:36 AM
- - Marcin600   https://www.nasa.gov/feature/dart-s-final-i...prio...   Sep 27 2022, 09:00 AM
|- - john_s   I notice that the final partial frame appears some...   Sep 27 2022, 01:44 PM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (john_s @ Sep 27 2022, 02:44 PM) I ...   Sep 27 2022, 04:17 PM
- - Explorer1   ASI Conference for LICIACube results is here   Sep 27 2022, 02:21 PM
- - tolis   Pictures!   Sep 27 2022, 02:41 PM
- - Explorer1   Wow, those streamers, it looks quite catastrophic...   Sep 27 2022, 02:45 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 27 2022, 04:45 PM)...   Sep 27 2022, 04:21 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 08:21 AM...   Sep 27 2022, 05:04 PM
||- - vikingmars   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 27 2022, 07:04 PM...   Sep 27 2022, 07:42 PM
|||- - Explorer1   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 02:42 PM...   Sep 27 2022, 07:59 PM
|||- - climber   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 09:42 PM...   Sep 28 2022, 06:38 AM
||- - fredk   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 27 2022, 06:04 PM...   Sep 27 2022, 09:55 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (fredk @ Sep 27 2022, 01:55 PM) I g...   Sep 27 2022, 10:23 PM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 05:21 PM...   Sep 27 2022, 05:38 PM
- - Marcin600   pictures are for example here: https://www.asi.it/...   Sep 27 2022, 03:29 PM
- - Explorer1   I think it's fair to say, however, there has b...   Sep 27 2022, 07:05 PM
- - Marcin600   By the way, I added the scale indicators to this i...   Sep 27 2022, 07:31 PM
- - fredk   Indeed, as I mentioned this is a job for gory-deta...   Sep 28 2022, 12:28 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Given the above discussion, it may have been a mis...   Sep 28 2022, 03:46 AM
- - climber   Very interesting hypothesis here : https://twitter...   Sep 28 2022, 07:02 AM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (climber @ Sep 28 2022, 09:02 AM) V...   Sep 28 2022, 11:37 AM
- - Marcin600   Here is a video compilation of 3 LICIACube picture...   Sep 28 2022, 05:17 PM
- - mcaplinger   One wonders if the large overexposure of the LICIA...   Sep 28 2022, 06:13 PM
|- - Marcin600   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 28 2022, 08:13 PM...   Sep 28 2022, 06:17 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   In a way, this continues the theme of Insight...   Sep 28 2022, 06:41 PM
- - cIclops   Hubble and Webb images ...   Sep 30 2022, 01:20 PM
- - Quetzalcoatl   Hi, A question arises. What is left of Dimorphos ...   Oct 2 2022, 02:17 PM
|- - john_s   Despite the spectacular amount of debris, I've...   Oct 2 2022, 06:28 PM
- - scalbers   Yes this makes sense as my rule of thumb is a crat...   Oct 2 2022, 06:32 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   The density and structure of Dimorphos makes it ha...   Oct 2 2022, 08:47 PM
- - Marcin600   Something like "mini-panoramas" of the D...   Oct 3 2022, 06:45 PM
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