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Mars Sample Return
Rakhir
post Apr 7 2006, 07:32 AM
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Next phase reached in definition of Mars Sample Return mission

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMJAGNFGLE_index_0.html
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Explorer1
post Apr 16 2024, 08:00 PM
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An important aspect, however, is that the caching method allows finding the most scientifically interesting samples to be gathered, rather than whatever is in range of a fixed lander's scoop or robotic arm. China's sample return will just rely on chance to gather whatever happens to be at the landing site. If an interesting rock is a just few cm out of reach, it has to stay there. There's always a tradeoff.

In hindsight, perhaps a much lighter 'Pathfinder' MAV, which just gathered whatever soil/rock was in reach (and perhaps atmosphere samples), would have been a good test of the most critical failure point. But, of course, predicting budgets so far ahead of time is impossible.
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StargazeInWonder
post Apr 16 2024, 08:17 PM
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This very thread presents an interesting sample of the discussion going back to 2006; it suddenly jumps at one point from 2009 to 2015 in the space of only two posts. I guess the pivotal decision was putting (1) the caching and (2) the return into concrete enough of a plan where the knowledge of whether or not the sampling rover would be usable for the retrieval was unknown. That was not part of anyone's original plan and seems like a sort of operational blackmail a la the sunk cost fallacy.

Reading between the lines of the Washington Post article (or any other coverage) there are people rightly pointing out that risk is inevitable and now someone at the top saying that the things one might trade off to mitigate risk are intolerable. So something has to give. Whether it's a risky but lucky success, years of thumb-twiddling, or Perseverance's samples lost in space remains to be seen.
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Posts in this topic
- Rakhir   Mars Sample Return   Apr 7 2006, 07:32 AM
- - bobik   I think it would have been far better if the OS an...   Nov 16 2023, 10:18 AM
- - tanjent   I know it sounds very cynical, but given the techn...   Nov 17 2023, 01:29 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (tanjent @ Nov 16 2023, 05:29 PM) w...   Nov 17 2023, 02:47 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Remember at the height of the Cold War, the first ...   Nov 17 2023, 03:12 AM
||- - rlorenz   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Nov 16 2023, 10...   Dec 1 2023, 02:56 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 16 2023, 09:47 PM...   Nov 17 2023, 09:22 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   The news about NASA's Mars sample return is no...   Nov 30 2023, 04:28 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Nov 30 2023, 08...   Nov 30 2023, 05:35 PM
- - Explorer1   Intercepting radio transmissions is a tad easier t...   Nov 17 2023, 04:05 AM
- - John Whitehead   I was sorry to learn of the disaster at JPL two we...   Feb 18 2024, 07:41 PM
- - Floyd   From LA Times Link From JPL Link   Feb 18 2024, 10:14 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   A familiar situation with a lot of details but not...   Mar 7 2024, 06:23 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This is light on details, but provides status upda...   Mar 12 2024, 04:33 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Mar 12 2024, 09...   Mar 12 2024, 04:59 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Yeah, I'd say that the newer article basically...   Mar 13 2024, 06:24 AM
- - John Whitehead   QUOTE (from the second link in Post #523 @ Ma...   Mar 17 2024, 01:41 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This feels like someone has turned on the oven to ...   Mar 17 2024, 08:23 PM
- - John Whitehead   Thanks for the analogy. Yes, the people who set t...   Mar 17 2024, 10:33 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Mar 17 2024, 03:3...   Mar 17 2024, 11:56 PM
- - mcaplinger   There are a lot of details about the MAV design as...   Mar 20 2024, 09:38 PM
- - vjkane   The journal Science published an article about the...   Mar 22 2024, 12:40 AM
|- - john_s   It seems possible, given the health of the rover a...   Mar 22 2024, 02:00 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (john_s @ Mar 21 2024, 07:00 PM) It...   Mar 25 2024, 04:21 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 25 2024, 09:21 AM) No...   Mar 25 2024, 05:43 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 25 2024, 06:43 PM...   Mar 25 2024, 08:39 PM
- - John Whitehead   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 20 2024, 09:38 PM...   Mar 31 2024, 03:45 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Mar 31 2024, 08:4...   Mar 31 2024, 07:10 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   At the risk of being overly reductive (but with th...   Mar 31 2024, 07:48 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Mar 31 2024, 12...   Mar 31 2024, 08:30 PM
||- - StargazeInWonder   I would add that docking in Mars orbit is somethin...   Mar 31 2024, 10:45 PM
|- - bobik   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 31 2024, 08:10 PM...   Apr 1 2024, 05:59 AM
- - Explorer1   Teleconference on Monday, 1 PM EST about the new p...   Apr 13 2024, 02:50 AM
- - John Whitehead   About 15 minutes into the news conference, NASA As...   Apr 15 2024, 05:35 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Apr 15 2024, 10:3...   Apr 15 2024, 08:56 PM
- - bobik   Science Mission Directorate Community Town Hall: N...   Apr 16 2024, 04:33 AM
- - Explorer1   Looks like the current plan is for Perseverance to...   Apr 16 2024, 01:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Apr 16 2024, 06:56 AM)...   Apr 16 2024, 03:17 PM
- - volcanopele   I will say one good thing about this and that they...   Apr 16 2024, 03:30 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 16 2024, 08:30 A...   Apr 16 2024, 03:48 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   The original sin here really goes back (at least) ...   Apr 16 2024, 04:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Apr 16 2024, 09...   Apr 16 2024, 05:28 PM
- - Explorer1   An important aspect, however, is that the caching ...   Apr 16 2024, 08:00 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This very thread presents an interesting sample of...   Apr 16 2024, 08:17 PM
- - antipode   This is such a big story it even made the Australi...   Apr 17 2024, 01:33 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (antipode @ Apr 16 2024, 08:33 PM) ...   Apr 17 2024, 02:23 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Mars Sample Return is a huge budget item that has ...   Apr 17 2024, 02:24 AM
- - mcaplinger   https://spacenews.com/practical-approach-ma...retu...   May 6 2024, 10:38 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Interesting and unexpected bogeyman that he identi...   May 7 2024, 02:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 07...   May 7 2024, 04:04 PM
- - Explorer1   The entire motivation of the MSR program is the st...   May 7 2024, 04:52 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ May 7 2024, 08:52 AM) ...   May 7 2024, 06:03 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 11...   May 7 2024, 06:29 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Very helpful links, thanks! And Crichton is th...   May 7 2024, 07:10 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 12...   May 7 2024, 07:25 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Boeing is offering this strategy: One (bigger) lau...   May 15 2024, 09:52 AM
- - stevesliva   Massive 'propulsive lander' with MAV that ...   May 15 2024, 01:48 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (stevesliva @ May 15 2024, 06:48 AM...   May 15 2024, 08:02 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Ten different approaches are being considered. Fiv...   Jun 17 2024, 08:55 PM
- - mcaplinger   Here's a link to a paper about one of the tiny...   Jun 18 2024, 12:31 AM
- - StargazeInWonder   Thanks for the link regarding the camera. That...   Jun 19 2024, 05:08 AM
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