IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Mars Sample Return
Rakhir
post Apr 7 2006, 07:32 AM
Post #501


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 370
Joined: 12-September 05
From: France
Member No.: 495



Next phase reached in definition of Mars Sample Return mission

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMJAGNFGLE_index_0.html
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
mcaplinger
post May 6 2024, 10:38 PM
Post #502


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2517
Joined: 13-September 05
Member No.: 497



https://spacenews.com/practical-approach-ma...return-mission/

Worth a read, but I'm skeptical of Zubrin's 50-kg total mass Earth return vehicle. And even if the delta V numbers work out in the abstract, he presupposes all the planetary protection requirements can be made to go away.


--------------------
Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
StargazeInWonder
post May 7 2024, 02:56 PM
Post #503


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 233
Joined: 14-January 22
Member No.: 9140



Interesting and unexpected bogeyman that he identifies and eliminates. Agreed that it is probably not going to be so simple to just wish that requirement away.

I wonder if – if – that is such a large part of the cost, if it could be reduced by moving the point of defense from Mars to Earth: Allow a no-planetary-protection return capsule to leave Mars, come to Earth orbit, and then get protected while in Earth orbit. That still sounds expensive and Rube Goldberg-ish, but would seem to be sub-billions.

Zubrin loves to cut the Gordian Knot. But this particular knot is there for a reason.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mcaplinger
post May 7 2024, 04:04 PM
Post #504


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2517
Joined: 13-September 05
Member No.: 497



QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 07:56 AM) *
Allow a no-planetary-protection return capsule to leave Mars, come to Earth orbit, and then get protected while in Earth orbit.

No, I don't think this helps. Getting into Earth orbit is either risky (aerocapture) or very expensive in terms of delta V. Unless there is some exotic propulsion system or some complex chaotic trajectory. And once you had it in Earth orbit, then what?

His ISRU solution handwaves the difficulty and complexity of making and storing the propellant, but at least it has slightly better mass margins.


--------------------
Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Rakhir   Mars Sample Return   Apr 7 2006, 07:32 AM
- - bobik   I think it would have been far better if the OS an...   Nov 16 2023, 10:18 AM
- - tanjent   I know it sounds very cynical, but given the techn...   Nov 17 2023, 01:29 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (tanjent @ Nov 16 2023, 05:29 PM) w...   Nov 17 2023, 02:47 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Remember at the height of the Cold War, the first ...   Nov 17 2023, 03:12 AM
||- - rlorenz   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Nov 16 2023, 10...   Dec 1 2023, 02:56 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 16 2023, 09:47 PM...   Nov 17 2023, 09:22 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   The news about NASA's Mars sample return is no...   Nov 30 2023, 04:28 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Nov 30 2023, 08...   Nov 30 2023, 05:35 PM
- - Explorer1   Intercepting radio transmissions is a tad easier t...   Nov 17 2023, 04:05 AM
- - John Whitehead   I was sorry to learn of the disaster at JPL two we...   Feb 18 2024, 07:41 PM
- - Floyd   From LA Times Link From JPL Link   Feb 18 2024, 10:14 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   A familiar situation with a lot of details but not...   Mar 7 2024, 06:23 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This is light on details, but provides status upda...   Mar 12 2024, 04:33 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Mar 12 2024, 09...   Mar 12 2024, 04:59 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Yeah, I'd say that the newer article basically...   Mar 13 2024, 06:24 AM
- - John Whitehead   QUOTE (from the second link in Post #523 @ Ma...   Mar 17 2024, 01:41 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This feels like someone has turned on the oven to ...   Mar 17 2024, 08:23 PM
- - John Whitehead   Thanks for the analogy. Yes, the people who set t...   Mar 17 2024, 10:33 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Mar 17 2024, 03:3...   Mar 17 2024, 11:56 PM
- - mcaplinger   There are a lot of details about the MAV design as...   Mar 20 2024, 09:38 PM
- - vjkane   The journal Science published an article about the...   Mar 22 2024, 12:40 AM
|- - john_s   It seems possible, given the health of the rover a...   Mar 22 2024, 02:00 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (john_s @ Mar 21 2024, 07:00 PM) It...   Mar 25 2024, 04:21 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (vjkane @ Mar 25 2024, 09:21 AM) No...   Mar 25 2024, 05:43 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 25 2024, 06:43 PM...   Mar 25 2024, 08:39 PM
- - John Whitehead   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 20 2024, 09:38 PM...   Mar 31 2024, 03:45 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Mar 31 2024, 08:4...   Mar 31 2024, 07:10 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   At the risk of being overly reductive (but with th...   Mar 31 2024, 07:48 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Mar 31 2024, 12...   Mar 31 2024, 08:30 PM
||- - StargazeInWonder   I would add that docking in Mars orbit is somethin...   Mar 31 2024, 10:45 PM
|- - bobik   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 31 2024, 08:10 PM...   Apr 1 2024, 05:59 AM
- - Explorer1   Teleconference on Monday, 1 PM EST about the new p...   Apr 13 2024, 02:50 AM
- - John Whitehead   About 15 minutes into the news conference, NASA As...   Apr 15 2024, 05:35 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   QUOTE (John Whitehead @ Apr 15 2024, 10:3...   Apr 15 2024, 08:56 PM
- - bobik   Science Mission Directorate Community Town Hall: N...   Apr 16 2024, 04:33 AM
- - Explorer1   Looks like the current plan is for Perseverance to...   Apr 16 2024, 01:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Apr 16 2024, 06:56 AM)...   Apr 16 2024, 03:17 PM
- - volcanopele   I will say one good thing about this and that they...   Apr 16 2024, 03:30 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 16 2024, 08:30 A...   Apr 16 2024, 03:48 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   The original sin here really goes back (at least) ...   Apr 16 2024, 04:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Apr 16 2024, 09...   Apr 16 2024, 05:28 PM
- - Explorer1   An important aspect, however, is that the caching ...   Apr 16 2024, 08:00 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   This very thread presents an interesting sample of...   Apr 16 2024, 08:17 PM
- - antipode   This is such a big story it even made the Australi...   Apr 17 2024, 01:33 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (antipode @ Apr 16 2024, 08:33 PM) ...   Apr 17 2024, 02:23 AM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Mars Sample Return is a huge budget item that has ...   Apr 17 2024, 02:24 AM
- - mcaplinger   https://spacenews.com/practical-approach-ma...retu...   May 6 2024, 10:38 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Interesting and unexpected bogeyman that he identi...   May 7 2024, 02:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 07...   May 7 2024, 04:04 PM
- - Explorer1   The entire motivation of the MSR program is the st...   May 7 2024, 04:52 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ May 7 2024, 08:52 AM) ...   May 7 2024, 06:03 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 11...   May 7 2024, 06:29 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Very helpful links, thanks! And Crichton is th...   May 7 2024, 07:10 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ May 7 2024, 12...   May 7 2024, 07:25 PM
|- - StargazeInWonder   Boeing is offering this strategy: One (bigger) lau...   May 15 2024, 09:52 AM
- - stevesliva   Massive 'propulsive lander' with MAV that ...   May 15 2024, 01:48 PM
- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (stevesliva @ May 15 2024, 06:48 AM...   May 15 2024, 08:02 PM
6 Pages V  « < 4 5 6


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd May 2024 - 03:36 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.