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Invoking The Voyagers Against Id
ljk4-1
post Oct 24 2005, 03:04 PM
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Cornell President Rawlings Condemns Intelligent Design

Drawing from sources ranging from Cornell's founders to Voyager
space missions, Interim President Hunter R. Rawlings III condemned
the push to teach intelligent design in public schools Friday. The
attack came during the president's State of...

http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/...4/435c7762cf891


"The desire to understand the world and the desire to reform it are the two great engines of progress." - Bertrand Russell


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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deglr6328
post Nov 18 2005, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 18 2005, 09:00 AM)
Yes it would, but if you think in depth, the energy of the detonatoin would have to be BROUGHT IN the neutron star by the mechanism able to break it (it will have to yeld a tremendous amount of energy to split apart the parts of the neutron star.) So this is, I think, rather unlikely to happen, and coalescence of two neutron stars or black holes may just yeld larger neutron stars/black holes.



I don't know, imagine a neutron star orbiting a black hole within the Roche limit, material will be sucked off of the surface simillar to what is shown here. If the rate of material loss from the neutron star is sufficient that its mass falls below the critical degeneracy pressure limit before it falls past the schwartzchild radius then we should see an explosion. Though I am not a supercomputer so I could not tell you if this is theoretically feasible or not. biggrin.gif
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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Nov 18 2005, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 18 2005, 07:08 PM)
I don't know, imagine a neutron star orbiting a black hole within the Roche limit, material will be sucked off of the surface simillar to what is shown here. If the rate of material loss from the neutron star is sufficient that its mass falls below the critical degeneracy pressure limit before it falls past the schwartzchild radius then we should see an explosion. Though I am not a supercomputer so I could not tell you if this is theoretically feasible or not. biggrin.gif
*


Perhaps a black hole is able to suck matter of a neutron star? In this case, the neutron star could become smaller than the minimum limit to form (about 1.3 solar mass). How much smaller? if the neutron star becomes too small, it cannot be sucked by the black hole, or it may fall in it completelly. Before it explodes?
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ljk4-1
post Nov 18 2005, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 18 2005, 02:19 PM)
Perhaps a black hole is able to suck matter of a neutron star? In this case,  the neutron star could become smaller than the minimum limit to form (about 1.3 solar mass).  How much smaller? if the neutron star becomes too small, it cannot be sucked by the black hole, or it may fall in it completelly.  Before it explodes?
*


Have any neutron stars with (suspected) black hole companions been found?


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Nov 18 2005, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 18 2005, 08:03 PM)
Have any neutron stars with (suspected) black hole companions been found?
*


AS far as I know no, but I read speculations about that. A couple of black holes has been found, so that the phenomenon is not uncommon or impossible. From relativity, two massive objects in close orbit are not stable, and the orbits goes closer and closer, until the two bodies coalesce. There has been some studies about this, as such phenomenon are expected to be the most poweful source of transcient gravity waves.


The difficulty in removing mass to a neutron star is that it is already in a very low energy level (all its energy dissipated during the formation, mainly under the form of thermal neutrinos). So to make it explode we must first bring the energy of the explosion, so me need more energy to remove mass than what was dissipated during the formation. But of course if we succeed in doing so, the neutron star can explode. What deglr6328 proposed is that a black hole could do so.
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Posts in this topic
- ljk4-1   Invoking The Voyagers Against Id   Oct 24 2005, 03:04 PM
- - djellison   Eeek - not sure I like where this thread will end ...   Oct 24 2005, 03:46 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 24 2005, 03:46 PM)Eeek...   Oct 24 2005, 06:08 PM
|- - OWW   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 24 2005, 03:46 PM)Play...   Oct 30 2005, 11:41 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (OWW @ Oct 30 2005, 12:41 PM)In 2032 th...   Oct 30 2005, 01:48 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (OWW @ Oct 30 2005, 11:41 AM)Is this ni...   Oct 30 2005, 02:16 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Oct 30 2005, 09:16 A...   Oct 30 2005, 02:38 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Oct 30 2005, 03:38 PM)But, ...   Oct 30 2005, 04:43 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Ah, discution starts to heat, good. (Not a problem...   Oct 30 2005, 06:55 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   I would add that, to somewhat recenter the topic o...   Oct 30 2005, 07:30 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Oct 30 2005, 08:30 P...   Oct 30 2005, 08:46 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Considering the number of accidents, cock-ups and ...   Oct 30 2005, 10:25 PM
||- - helvick   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Oct 30 2005, 11:25 PM)Er......   Oct 30 2005, 10:51 PM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (helvick @ Oct 30 2005, 05:51 PM)Not qu...   Oct 31 2005, 02:36 PM
||- - ljk4-1   A little more speculation: What if our Universe...   Oct 31 2005, 02:44 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Oct 31 2005, 02:44 PM)A ...   Oct 31 2005, 07:09 PM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Oct 31 2005, 02:09 P...   Oct 31 2005, 07:32 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Oct 31 2005, 07:32 PM)I ...   Oct 31 2005, 07:43 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (helvick @ Oct 30 2005, 03:46 PM)...Lik...   Oct 31 2005, 02:27 AM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Oct 31 2005, 02:27 AM)Actua...   Oct 31 2005, 08:27 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (helvick @ Oct 30 2005, 08:46 PM)Spirit...   Oct 31 2005, 07:59 AM
- - mike   All thinking is circular.   Oct 30 2005, 11:18 PM
- - djellison   We used to have this 'purpose' discussion ...   Oct 31 2005, 08:37 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 31 2005, 08:37 AM)We u...   Oct 31 2005, 10:19 AM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 31 2005, 03:37 AM)We u...   Oct 31 2005, 04:01 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 31 2005, 01:37 AM)but ...   Oct 31 2005, 05:55 PM
|- - chris   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 31 2005, 08:37 AM).......   Oct 31 2005, 06:22 PM
- - mike   I think that quite simply all reality is experienc...   Oct 31 2005, 04:02 PM
- - djellison   I understand that - but the question remains - WHY...   Oct 31 2005, 06:23 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 31 2005, 06:23 PM)I un...   Oct 31 2005, 06:42 PM
- - mike   If it weren't for all these 'evil wretches...   Oct 31 2005, 08:22 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should...   Nov 4 2005, 04:30 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 4 2005, 04:30 PM)Vat...   Nov 4 2005, 08:38 PM
- - mike   Yeah, they say that now, now that virtually everyo...   Nov 4 2005, 06:13 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 4 2005, 01:13 PM)Yeah, they...   Nov 4 2005, 07:04 PM
|- - ljk4-1   For details on the Trial of Galileo, see here: ht...   Nov 4 2005, 07:07 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 4 2005, 07:04 PM)Yes...   Nov 4 2005, 08:04 PM
- - mike   I don't feel I've researched enough about ...   Nov 4 2005, 08:28 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 4 2005, 08:28 PM)Regardless...   Nov 4 2005, 09:02 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 4 2005, 02:28 PM)There are ...   Nov 5 2005, 09:12 AM
- - mike   There actually have been some studies on near-deat...   Nov 4 2005, 10:59 PM
- - mike   If there is indeed a singular God, I'd rather ...   Nov 5 2005, 07:38 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Pat Robertson insinuates ill-will on PA town that ...   Nov 11 2005, 03:48 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 11 2005, 04:48 PM)Th...   Nov 11 2005, 05:05 PM
||- - ljk4-1   I wonder what it means that so many Red States got...   Nov 11 2005, 05:26 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 11 2005, 05:26 PM)I ...   Nov 12 2005, 10:30 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 11 2005, 03:48 PM)Pa...   Nov 11 2005, 05:09 PM
- - mike   Yeah, but see, God works in mysterious ways and He...   Nov 11 2005, 07:46 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 11 2005, 07:46 PM)Yeah, but...   Nov 12 2005, 10:45 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 12 2005, 11:45 A...   Nov 12 2005, 12:03 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (helvick @ Nov 12 2005, 12:03 PM)The co...   Nov 12 2005, 12:36 PM
- - Jeff7   QUOTE If we consider that Earth still has one bill...   Nov 12 2005, 06:28 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Nov 12 2005, 06:28 PM)The esti...   Nov 12 2005, 08:52 PM
- - Tom Ames   On the issue of science education: the reason ID c...   Nov 13 2005, 12:47 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Tom Ames @ Nov 13 2005, 12:47 AM)On th...   Nov 13 2005, 11:33 AM
- - Jeff7   What I find interesting too is that proponents of ...   Nov 13 2005, 05:36 PM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 13 2005, 11:33 A...   Nov 13 2005, 06:09 PM
|- - Tom Ames   The problems I see with ID: 1. It invokes a super...   Nov 13 2005, 09:03 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 13 2005, 06:09 PM)... ...   Nov 14 2005, 11:13 AM
||- - Tom Ames   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 14 2005, 06:13 A...   Nov 15 2005, 05:51 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Tom Ames @ Nov 15 2005, 05:51 PM)Pleas...   Nov 15 2005, 09:29 PM
|- - hendric   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 13 2005, 12:09 PM)If I...   Nov 16 2005, 05:17 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (hendric @ Nov 16 2005, 05:17 AM)... ...   Nov 16 2005, 08:33 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (hendric @ Nov 16 2005, 05:17 AM)I pref...   Nov 16 2005, 08:48 AM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 16 2005, 03:48 A...   Nov 16 2005, 01:59 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (hendric @ Nov 16 2005, 12:17 AM)I pref...   Nov 17 2005, 02:43 PM
- - mike   Some people like to believe that they can just wis...   Nov 13 2005, 09:02 PM
- - mike   It seems to me that in this realm at least there w...   Nov 14 2005, 06:52 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Cornell Professors discuss Intelligent Design Las...   Nov 15 2005, 01:59 PM
- - mike   If anyone can describe a way to prove or disprove ...   Nov 16 2005, 04:09 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 16 2005, 05:09 PM)If anyone...   Nov 16 2005, 07:08 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 16 2005, 04:09 PM)If anyone...   Nov 16 2005, 07:42 PM
- - mike   As I said, even if a really powerful/god-like bein...   Nov 16 2005, 08:16 PM
- - Jeff7   Interesting side note on heavy elements - I wonder...   Nov 17 2005, 05:27 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Nov 17 2005, 05:27 PM)Interest...   Nov 18 2005, 02:21 AM
- - dvandorn   My understanding is that most normal stars can onl...   Nov 17 2005, 05:36 PM
- - deglr6328   I think Jeff is talking about the so called ...   Nov 17 2005, 07:58 PM
- - deglr6328   A neutron star, in some ways, may also be thought ...   Nov 18 2005, 03:00 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 18 2005, 03:00 AM)A ne...   Nov 18 2005, 09:00 AM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 18 2005, 09:00 A...   Nov 18 2005, 07:08 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 18 2005, 07:08 PM)I do...   Nov 18 2005, 07:19 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   back to topic: small neutron stars can form by In...   Nov 18 2005, 07:28 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 18 2005, 02:19 P...   Nov 18 2005, 08:03 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 18 2005, 08:03 PM)Ha...   Nov 18 2005, 08:21 PM
- - dvandorn   Well, yeah, a black hole would be the only thing t...   Nov 18 2005, 08:30 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Nov 18 2005, 08:30 PM)Well,...   Nov 18 2005, 08:47 PM
|- - ljk4-1   This fellow co-authored papers with Ward and Brown...   Nov 18 2005, 10:07 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 18 2005, 10:07 PM)Th...   Nov 19 2005, 12:24 PM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 19 2005, 07:47 A...   Nov 19 2005, 01:10 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Nov 19 2005, 01:10 AM)No...   Nov 19 2005, 12:33 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 19 2005, 06:33 A...   Nov 19 2005, 01:03 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   dvandorn, I think only a calculus or simulation wo...   Nov 19 2005, 09:11 PM
||- - helvick   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 19 2005, 10:11 P...   Nov 19 2005, 09:43 PM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux)Neutron stars hold their sh...   Nov 20 2005, 01:01 AM
|- - helvick   Nice feedback James. My estimates were based on so...   Nov 20 2005, 01:59 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (helvick @ Nov 20 2005, 12:59 PM)Nice f...   Nov 20 2005, 06:14 AM
- - dvandorn   Hmmmm... if escape velocity at the surface of the ...   Nov 20 2005, 05:20 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thank you all for this nice conversation. Just are...   Nov 20 2005, 08:53 AM
- - jamescanvin   Well wadayaknow, turns out somebody has thought a ...   Nov 20 2005, 10:24 PM
- - deglr6328   So the answer seems to be then, that NSs CAN in fa...   Nov 21 2005, 01:36 AM
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